Switch characters

[prezera]

Curious as to what the community thinks about switch characters.

Personally, I think having one or two switch characters is fine as long as I miss out on a lot of the character by not actually playing them. 

Obviously this isn't really the state of Winona or Warly, as you can switch to them, get whatever bonuses the character has, and switch back.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

klei has done the work so reverting its a loose of time and resources for a thing that you dont need to use if you dont like

i think i will never use it but i dont care if people enjoy having more than 1 perk in a world, add more variety to the gameplay

[Yuuko]

I don't really care about switch characters - although I wouldn't disagree with them being reworked to become less so.

[Mike23Ua]

My personal opinion is that swapping characters breaks the challenge of the Character I choose at the start to begin with.

like for example if I wanted to be Wurt and be challenged by only being able to eat veggies, then obviously swapping to Wendy kills the whole point.

I personally hate that you can change characters, but ehh I guess some people like it enough that they made it a core feature?

[GenomeSquirrel]

it’s a sign that Klei should have made a new item instead of a new character.

[Scrimbles]

The only real problems I have are thus:

1) The Merm king should not be able to live if Wurt is not in the world.

2) Winona's buildings should not function without Winona.

Being able to benefit from a characters perks without them being around really de-emphasizes actually playing them, Wurt is already disliked by a lot of people, I haven't really heard anything nice about her playstyle outside of being able to benefit from Merm buildings, so if you could switch off of Wurt while still gaining her primary benefit, why would anyone continue to play Wurt?

Same goes with Winona, except Winona doesn't even offer a unique challenge, she IS her craftables, and her craftables belong to everyone.

All that's left is personality, and personally I don't care for Wurt, as shes basically a child Wolfgang. I like Winona though, but shes too bland mechanic wise for moment to moment gameplay.

 

Otherwise, yeah its fine.

[prezera]

48 minutes ago, Ogrecakes said:

The only real problems I have are thus:

1) The Merm king should not be able to live if Wurt is not in the world.

2) Winona's buildings should not function without Winona.

Being able to benefit from a characters perks without them being around really de-emphasizes actually playing them, Wurt is already disliked by a lot of people, I haven't really heard anything nice about her playstyle outside of being able to benefit from Merm buildings, so if you could switch off of Wurt while still gaining her primary benefit, why would anyone continue to play Wurt?

Same goes with Winona, except Winona doesn't even offer a unique challenge, she IS her craftables, and her craftables belong to everyone.

All that's left is personality, and personally I don't care for Wurt, as shes basically a child Wolfgang. I like Winona though, but shes too bland mechanic wise for moment to moment gameplay.

 

Otherwise, yeah its fine.

Is it possible to feed the king if your wearing the disguise? Haven't tested stuff like this out yet, but I don't think switching to wurt every 6 days to feed king is very efficient unless you have 3 chests full of purple gems

[MondayNight]

6 minutes ago, PrezPara said:

Is it possible to feed the king if your wearing the disguise? Haven't tested stuff like this out yet, but I don't think switching to wurt every 6 days to feed king is very efficient unless you have 3 chests full of purple gems

Yes you can feed MermKing as any other character while wearing Wurt Glasses-disguise.

 

Will edit later this post regarding OP subject.

[CameoAppearance]

I'd like it if Warly had more inherent perks that didn't depend on his craftables, but at least his food is consumable and perishable, so stockpiling it long-term (without switching back and forth) is mostly limited to spiced powdercakes. Winona can't even say that; her craftables last forever as long as nobody lets a giant step on them.

I appreciate having a way to change characters that doesn't involve the admin despawning people with console commands, because sometimes your decision upon joining the server doesn't work well with your preferred playstyle or the server conditions and it's a lot harder to have fun than if you'd picked someone else -- for example, usually I stick to one character even when things get tough, but there's been a few servers where I joined as Wortox or Maxwell and got sick of getting killed over and over by mobs so I switched to Wormwood -- but I'm not a huge fan of the strategy that emerged as a by-product of that where players switch to a character for exactly as long as they need to exploit their perks and then change to another character when they want to do something different. It's an acceptable tradeoff to me, I'm not gonna call for a rework of the character switching mechanics, but you're not gonna see me actively praising that strategy either.

(Edit: I forgot bundling wraps existed. Although even so, you need boss drops to use those and you still need a Warly to replace the food once you eat it all.)

[G-Forces]

What do you mean by switch characters?

[Viktor234]

10 hours ago, Ogrecakes said:

1) The Merm king should not be able to live if Wurt is not in the world.

2) Winona's buildings should not function without Winona.

Instead of giving players reasons why they should not play certain characters, you should rather give them reasons why they should play these characters.

You could build merm huts to defend yourself against Hounds.
You could build several merm huts near Bee Queen, Dragonfly, etc. and use the Merms to finish off the bosses.

You could build catapults to assist you in certain fights.
You could build catapults to make an automatic food or ressource farm.

But then again:
Merms can be replaced with Bunnyman or Tentacles, which can actually be used by any other character ingame.
Catapults can be replaced with Bunnyman or a Fire Farm, which can again be used by any other character ingame.

[Scrimbles]

3 hours ago, Viktor234 said:

Instead of giving players reasons why they should not play certain characters, you should rather give them reasons why they should play these characters.

You could build merm huts to defend yourself against Hounds.
You could build several merm huts near Bee Queen, Dragonfly, etc. and use the Merms to finish off the bosses.

You could build catapults to assist you in certain fights.
You could build catapults to make an automatic food or ressource farm.

But then again:
Merms can be replaced with Bunnyman or Tentacles, which can actually be used by any other character ingame.
Catapults can be replaced with Bunnyman or a Fire Farm, which can again be used by any other character ingame.

Wurt and Winona already build merm houses and catapults respectively.

By making it so that they are the only ones who can keep those benefits functioning its giving you a reason to play them.

I dont understand what you're trying to say here.

 

You are encouraged to currently build their structures and then switch to a better character.

[Sinister_Fang]

4 hours ago, G-Forces said:

What do you mean by switch characters?

They're pretty much characters you can benefit from without actually using. Using the celestial portal, you can change to them, build/craft what you need, then change back to someone else.

[Mrklli]

I picked "other" because I think the offered options were too strong opinions for me. I don't like that some characters are considered as switch characters only, and that's why I do think they shouldn't exist. All characters should be equally useful and interesting to play as on the long run too, because it's just not good if majority of the community avoids them and think they're bad. Personally I couldn't care less which character is "switch only" for I play all of them and often pick a random. I only switch characters if I've decided to do so on a set day when I create the server and that only happens every few game years and my new character will be random. I can't really plan anything and if I do benefit from the switch it's only good luck. So, for me there are no switch characters but I can't really say Klei shouldn't care about this phenomenon either.

[Mike23Ua]

I think the Celestial Portal should be changed so that instead of allowing people to change their playable characters that instead it took us to a brand new Celestial themed set of Biomes.

Something that reads as PORTAL should obviously take us somewhere else.. and by the way wasn’t Hamlet confirmed to be in the skies above DST/Shipwrecked? 

Anyway I have discussed content merging to death by this point across multiple different threads. So I’m not going to discuss that any further.

I just wanted to say that something called PORTAL should take us somewhere else.

I guess if character swap has to remain in the game at all then it can be a higher tier upgrade to the portal demanding more resources from all over the Constant. 

(because let’s face it for what little actual effort it takes to build the dang thing it is incredibly broken and OP to have Access to anyone you want to be in exchange for a purple gem slotted moon lens and 20 moon rocks.)

[prezera]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

I just wanted to say that something called PORTAL should take us somewhere else.

Lore wise, it takes the characters into the constant 

[Mysterious box]

Honestly I feel like using wurt as a swap character offers little benefit merms don't actively seek out mobs outside of pigs when a merm king is up so you have to trick them in to helping unless you make them your follower and without the king merms only really have endurance going for them in terms of base defense again this is assuming your not recruiting each one of them which I guess isn't hard since you could just a stack of seeds in the fridge but on that note I really wish merms told you when they are hungry

As for warly I do admit that due to bundling wraps you can stockpile all the buff food you want with no issues tbh I don't really have a big issue with swap characters I mean if people are willing to go that far what's the point of stopping them they could always just console command spawn in their perk related things I feel going out of their way to make sure other people can't use their things kinda defeats the point of them in some cases is it really worth nerfing teamwork to fix character swapping?

[Sinister_Fang]

17 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I feel going out of their way to make sure other people can't use their things kinda defeats the point of them in some cases is it really worth nerfing teamwork to fix character swapping?

It's less about nerfing their team based perks, and more about making the characters themselves worth playing 100% of the time. Most of these swap characters lack any kind of meaningful "personal perk" to keep people using them.

[Mysterious box]

3 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

It's less about nerfing their team based perks, and more about making the characters themselves worth playing 100% of the time. Most of these swap characters lack any kind of meaningful "personal perk" to keep people using them.

While your not wrong I can't really think of what kiel could do to make a better personal perk for warly I do have plenty of ideas for wurt and Winona tho

 

Edit:so I had a spark of inspiration for warly tho it won't help with swap tho but i think it will make him more enjoyable for people who like playing him my idea is that he becomes able destroy a fruit or vegi for 4 seeds of that plant it's a perk that makes using his perks easier while not being too gamebreaking and allowing him to make more of his recipes without having to fully prioritize his buffs.

Honestly Warly I feel is interesting enough to not be a swap character even without buffs it's just that he's really held back by the terrible farming system yes other people can use them but if warly had easier access to them more people wouldn't think of swapping him, and just take the good and bad. I know I went a bit off topic here but I didn't feel this little thought of mine was worth a full topic

[prezera]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

While your not wrong I can't really think of what kiel could do to make a better personal perk for warly I do have plenty of ideas for wurt and Winona tho

Something like in shipwrecked where he just gets better stats from crockpot foods is possible

[Moonatik]

I don't really understand, some people want to change the rules of something they don't use ? Or worst, something they don't like to use ? 

I think I feel bad, in some ways...

I don't understand because if it's a sand box game, where you can change ALL the settings (and I'm only a console player), what's the point ?

It only breaks the challenge for those who decided to break their OWN challenge. 

My challenge is to play a very long game, so what if I played around 150-200 days in a row, on actually 1950, with Warly ? And if I keep some foods after the switch ? What about my 5 catapults to help me beat Misery Toad solo, with Wolfgang jellyed goated ?  Is it that bad ? Why would the catapult would not work if Winona wouldn't be around ? That wouldn't make sense. 

Change the coast is not a solution either. By this thread you ask if this feature should disappear. And I don't see any reasons to change it or to make it disappear. 

At least, make a new setting line, "activate switch". It just depends on every player. It just depends on how you want to change the freedom this game has to offer.

 

[Mike23Ua]

Personally I think that Moon Rocks should have to be acquired from the new Lunar Island Biomes area.

I can get a Celestial Portal built in just a few days game time so obviously it’s a very broken Overpowered feature to have access to as little as 4-5 Days into the game.

I don’t care at all that people swap characters, that’s their business- the same results can be much easily accomplished if they just choose to play on ENDLESS mode and die. (And at a much faster rate of speed) what I care about is how EASY it is to get the Swap feature fully functional in the Uncompromising SURVIVAL Mode, this should be seen as End-Game Content and it’s really not.

[Yuuko]

3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I can get a Celestial Portal built in just a few days game time so obviously it’s a very broken Overpowered feature to have access to as little as 4-5 Days into the game.

It is possible to have it built so quickly, but not likely.  The celestial orb rarely spawns so early in the game.  I've had to wait 90 days before it's dropped before.  You also need a purple gem to make the idol for each transformation which again you aren't going to have plentiful so early in the game.

Celestial Portal is more a 2nd year goal, which means pubs and scrubs pretty much never access it.

Also note - that while Winona's catapults are awesome, it takes about 500 rocks and 2 stacks of twigs and grass to set up for bee queen.  Dedicating myself exclusively to bee queen and catapults I had to spend basically the entire first autumn building them...  If I wanna switch my character after that kind of investment then so be it lol.