Demky Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Hello, I have a lot of water a +/-70°C, i'm trying to cool down the water to use it without ruining my base. I'm using weezewort, hydrogen from electrolyser, thermo regulator with tempshift plate and radiant pipe. I really don't understand why isn't my water/hydrogen cooling down... - The Hydrogen is at +/-50° out of hydrolyzer. - The hydrogen go inside 4 thermo regulator and end at -16°C (the room if full of hydrogen at +/-20°C) - the hydrogen hit the water (+/-60-70°C) at -14°C - 5 secondes later the hydrogen is at 48°C... (radiant gaz pipe) The water temperature is still at 60-70°C... What do I do wrong ? Screenshots : 1/ The base 2/ Temperature 3/ Hydrogen temperature before contact with water 4/ Hydrogen temperature when it hit water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 For the volume of water, you need waaay more wheezeworts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Or better still: one aquatuner instead of thermoregulators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Better to use aqua tunners submerged in PW for now, then switch to steam turbines once you have steel production Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamLogan Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 4 hours ago, Demky said: Hello, I have a lot of water a +/-70°C, i'm trying to cool down the water to use it without ruining my base. There are some errors : - Your pipe are not full so you downgrade the mass effect. 1Kg of hydrogen is cooling more than 100g. - Enclose your pool because in your case you're trying to cool the water and all the gas around. - Add a lot more wheezewort, use this calculator to help you : https://oni-assistant.com/tools/coolingcalculator And as Neotuck, AT is really better to cool water as the coolant is a liquid so you have 10 Kg / sec of coolant versus 1 Kg of gas. Mass effect. Also, cooling the water in early game is useless, if you need warm water, use those are from the bathroom (it produces 6 Kg / Duplicant / cycle) or the slime biome, it generate enough for your base. All the hot water, will be use for the electrolysers. Store the hot water outside of your base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgel Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 There is thins thing called "specific heat capacity" and ONI models it. It describes how much energy you need to add/remove from a specific material per weight unit (g) to heat it up/cool it down. Water has a very high specific heat capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psusi Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 13 hours ago, Gurgel said: There is thins thing called "specific heat capacity" and ONI models it. It describes how much energy you need to add/remove from a specific material per weight unit (g) to heat it up/cool it down. Water has a very high specific heat capacity. It's less than double that of hydrogen. The main reason is the large mass of the water compared to the mass of the hydrogen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittenIsAGeek Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 Here's some cooling math. Lets consider the case of 1 segment of pipe filled with water at 70C and compare it to the cooling output of a single wheezewart in 2kg of hydrogen at 20C. First, the thermal energy of the water: Water has a SHC of 4.179 DTU/g/C. So 4.179 x 10000g = 41790 DTU/C. We have a temperature delta of 50C (70 - 20), so that leaves our water with 2.0895 million DTU of thermal energy to get rid of. Next, lets look at the wheezewart. I believe that it breathes in 1kg of gas, cools it by 5c, then breaths it back out. Hydrogen has a SHC of 2.40 DTU/g/C. So 2.4 x 1000 x 5 = 12000 DTU/s of cooling power. So a single wheezewart will require 174 seconds to cool 10kg of 70c water down to 20c. Clearly this is inefficient. So how much water CAN you cool with a wheezewart in hydrogen? 4.179 DTU/g/C * 50C * Xg = 12000 DTU. Xg = 12000 DTU / 4.179 DTU/g/C / 50C --> Xg = 12000 / 4.179 g/ 50 --> Xg = 57.43g. One wheezewart can cool 57.43g of water from 70c to 20c in one second (assuming perfect conductivity). Since you have 5 wheezewarts, you can effectively cool 287.15g/s of water. If your wheezewarts are in hydrogen. Now, lets look at a thermo regulator. This machine allows you to cool a pipe full of gas by 14c. Lets assume you're using hydrogen. A gas pipe has a capacity of 1000g. This is the same capacity as a wheezewart, but is almost 3 times as much cooling power. In fact, we can cool 2.4 x 1000 x 14 = 33600 DTU/s. So a single thermo regulator (with hydrogen in the pipes) can cool 160.8g/s of water from 70c to 20c. Remember, a pipe carries 10,000g/s of water. So neither one of these methods will really work unless you have a lot of time on your hands. For example, lets say you have a pool of 70c water. Lets say its 6 tiles wide, 4 tiles deep. That's 24000kg of water that isn't going anywhere. Lets say you have a radiant gas pipe full of hydrogen that flows through that water, then through a thermo regulator, then through a room with 5 wheezewarts. Combined, that's 93600 DTU/s of cooling power. If your goal is water at 20c, then: ( 4.179 DTU/g/C x 24000kg x 50c ) / 93600 DTU/s = 53576.9s. That's about 89.3 cycles to bring its temperature from 70c down to 20c. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleetfeet Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 Thanks, @KittenIsAGeek ! This is a problem I feel like we all go through at some point, and the basic failing I certainly went through is understanding the very basics of the problem. It's easy to say "I want to cool down this 24 ton pool of water to 20c from 70c" without understanding that what we're actually saying is "I want to remove 5 billion units of thermal energy from this mass, and the greatest individual source of heat deletion I am using only removes 33,600 units of thermal energy per second" a 24 ton pool of water isn't that big a pool. 5 billion units of thermal energy is a lot to deal with without some industrial grade cooling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgel Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Fleetfeet said: Thanks, @KittenIsAGeek ! This is a problem I feel like we all go through at some point, and the basic failing I certainly went through is understanding the very basics of the problem. It's easy to say "I want to cool down this 24 ton pool of water to 20c from 70c" without understanding that what we're actually saying is "I want to remove 5 billion units of thermal energy from this mass, and the greatest individual source of heat deletion I am using only removes 33,600 units of thermal energy per second" a 24 ton pool of water isn't that big a pool. 5 billion units of thermal energy is a lot to deal with without some industrial grade cooling. A nice thing is that this par of Oni is modeled on real physics, so you learn something in addition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 31 minutes ago, Gurgel said: A nice thing is that this par of Oni is modeled on real physics, so you learn something in addition. Too bad not all of Oni is modeled in REAL physics Like how a few grams of water can protect you from the vacuum of outer space Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewreckedangle Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 34 minutes ago, Neotuck said: Like how a few grams of water can protect you from the vacuum of outer space Spoiler Spoiler 39 minutes ago, Neotuck said: REAL physics damn it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgel Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Neotuck said: Too bad not all of Oni is modeled in REAL physics Like how a few grams of water can protect you from the vacuum of outer space Well, a real physics simulation would be a different game. And we would probably get 0.1 FPS or so on a 64 core system if it was that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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