Heat Energy Doubling - Molten Lead for the Win

[mathmanican]

Well, thanks to @DonDegow's thread on "Generating heat by freezing water,"  I now present a heat energy duplication device, which you can attach to any heat energy source to essentially double the power you can generate. 

The molten lead beads down the walls (at a rate of 100kg/0.4s = 250kg/s, could be doubled to get 500kg/s with a waterfall instead of bead) and becomes solid lead, transferring heat into the steam turbine chamber (which only powers on if the temp is above 585K, to keep a 15C temp difference for rapid cooling). This lead then waits its turn to fall into the cooking chamber (temp sensor set at 620K, but could probably drop). The doors open all at once, and then close one by one (every 5 sec) starting at the top and going down, trapping the lead inside the bottom door above the mesh tiles. The aquatuner to the right provides a heat source, using LESS POWER than is generated by the turbine. The batteries up top, while I typed the first couple of sentences, filled to capacity. Once the lead melts, it falls down through the mesh tiles, and then fed into an escher waterfall and back up to the top.  I think a door pump would actually be a better choice than an escher waterfall (as you would need LOTS of lead for this build in survival, but could get away with way less if you used a door pump). 

How does it work?  Check the details in @DonDegow's post for the phase change shenanigans. I need a liquid-solid combo that changed phases above the min steam turbine temp, and hopefully had the same temp at which to change phases.  Solidifying happens 3K below that temp, and the new material appears only 1.5K below that temp. You then only have to reheat the material 1.5K (saving 1.5K), which results in the doubling. 

I wouldn't call this anymore an exploit than regolith melting (which is far more power positive), but you can use something like this to essentially double any heat energy you feed into the aquatuner chamber (swap it out for your favorite heat source). If you use magma, then it'll last twice as long (so you can connect this to a regolith melter). It's obviously an exploit of the rules of the ONI universe, but isn't that essentially what we do with science all the time, try to learn properties about the world around us and then exploit them for our benefit.  It's called science!

@Saturnus, this seems like the kind of thing you would like to optimize. I'll give you the save file, rather than a bunch of overlays, to jump start any optimizations. 

• RapidMelterFreezer.sav

Have fun all. Happy ONI. 

 

This reminds me of an old thread by @socooo. It's not the same thing (similar), but thought I'd share it anyway (uses old turbine, so not possible now). 

 

 

[Zarquan]

You could possibly avoid the escher waterfall and the large amounts of lead by using an autosweeper to move it up.  With the right automation, you can move 1000 kg with one swing of the autosweeper's arm to remain power positive. 

[mathmanican]

3 minutes ago, Zarquan said:

1000 kg with one swing of the autosweeper's

I'll have to play with that.  This thing needs 500kg/s (at max capacity) to run, and I fear one sweeper won't be fast enough, even at 1000kg per sweep.   I'll definitely try it. Thanks for the idea.  I had dismissed conveyors completely because I was stuck in the 20kg/s mindset....  You have helped me realize the flaw in my ways.  I am pretty sure that the sweeper will be working near 100% uptime, so that will be a real power cost.  A slow moving door compressor works, and I think this high pressure magma push pump (design by @Saturnus) may be the way to go.

That magma push pump will need a little tweeking to increase the flow rate, but I think I understand liquid flow enough now to increase throughput. 

Hahahaha.  If done right, I could build one of these on each side of the push pump, and have two doublers going at once.  

[Chthonicone]

7 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

I'll have to play with that.  This thing needs 500kg/s (at max capacity) to run, and I fear one sweeper won't be fast enough, even at 1000kg per sweep.   I'll definitely try it. Thanks for the idea.  I had dismissed conveyors completely because I was stuck in the 20kg/s mindset....  You have helped me realize the flaw in my ways.  I am pretty sure that the sweeper will be working near 100% uptime, so that will be a real power cost.  A slow moving door compressor works, and I think this high pressure magma push pump (design by @Saturnus) may be the way to go.

That magma push pump will need a little tweeking to increase the flow rate, but I think I understand liquid flow enough now to increase throughput. 

Hahahaha.  If done right, I could build one of these on each side of the push pump, and have two doublers going at once.  

I would like to congratulate you sir, on being a filthy cheater, bending the rules away from their intended purpose like that

Well done.

[mathmanican]

20 minutes ago, Chthonicone said:

I would like to congratulate you sir, on being a filthy cheater, bending the rules away from their intended purpose like that

Haha!  So if we were in the dark ages and I mixed baking soda and vinegar, you would probably want to burn me at the stake, right? ONI is a universe with different rules from ours, and yet since their rules don't make sense to you, I am going to be martyred.  So be it.  

I'm just joking around.  Hope you're having fun playing.

[Chthonicone]

10 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

Haha!  So if we were in the dark ages and I mixed baking soda and vinegar, you would probably want to burn me at the stake, right? ONI is a universe with different rules from ours, and yet since their rules don't make sense to you, I am going to be martyred.  So be it.  

I know. Lets get a dupe with your name, and place him under the doors in your device, so he can be boiled alive in semimolten lead.

 

[mathmanican]

2 minutes ago, Chthonicone said:

Lets get a dupe with your name, and place him under the doors in your device, so he can be boiled alive in semimolten lead.

But the door has to be activated by a manual dupe switch, that is blocked off by doors that only allow access to a dupe with your name.  

[Chthonicone]

Just now, mathmanican said:

But the door has to be activated by a manual dupe switch, that is blocked off by doors that only allow access to a dupe with your name.  

It's a good thing that i'm both a judge, notary, and expert forger then, isn't it.

[mathmanican]

Just now, Chthonicone said:

It's a good thing that i'm both a judge, notary, and expert forger then, isn't it.

Absolutely.   I'm just a mathematician, ready to die for the sake of science.  I just hope I get a statue built after me someday.  @Oozinator, can you see to it after I'm gone.  That door is about to open....  Ahhhhhhhh, the lead hurts......  Wait, I never leave home without my exosuit, and this stuff is too cold to hurt me.....  Nice try! 

[0xFADE]

Giving Math ideas has become a very dangerous thing.

[mathmanican]

You guys are too much fun.  Thanks for all the fun banter (I hope you're having fun). ONI is a blast, but the forums are even better. 

[Zarquan]

48 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

I'll have to play with that.  This thing needs 500kg/s (at max capacity) to run, and I fear one sweeper won't be fast enough, even at 1000kg per sweep.   I'll definitely try it. Thanks for the idea.  I had dismissed conveyors completely because I was stuck in the 20kg/s mindset....  You have helped me realize the flaw in my ways.  I am pretty sure that the sweeper will be working near 100% uptime, so that will be a real power cost.  A slow moving door compressor works, and I think this high pressure magma push pump (design by @Saturnus) may be the way to go.

Remember that the sweepers do not need to sweep in to conveyor loaders.  They could sweep in to storage bins and be a chain of autosweepers.  Then you could use the old automation trick to drop the materials at the top, thereby only being limited by the speed at which the sweepers can move. 

EDIT:  The sweeper only needs to work once when there is 1000 kg of lead at the bottom, then it can be turned off.  Perhaps a pressure plate to measure.

[mathmanican]

Just now, Zarquan said:

They could sweep in to storage bins and be a chain of autosweepers.

Yep. That was my plan.  It'll have to happen tomorrow. I'm just worried they can't move stuff fast enough, or we just throttle the build based on how fast the sweepers can move stuff (not a problem).  I'd love to move 1000kg/s or evern 2000kg/s, as the power increase grows linearly based on how much mass is moved. That's really the only limiting factor (and if you can supply enough heat in the aquatuner chamber, but that is easy). 

[0xFADE]

Phosphorus has a pretty low transition temp around 44 if that is of any use.

It probably isn't hot enough to do anything with steam, hmm

[Chthonicone]

27 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

Absolutely.   I'm just a mathematician, ready to die for the sake of science.  I just hope I get a statue built after me someday.  @Oozinator, can you see to it after I'm gone.  That door is about to open....  Ahhhhhhhh, the lead hurts......  Wait, I never leave home without my exosuit, and this stuff is too cold to hurt me.....  Nice try! 

Oh, I was worried for a minute that you actually were offended. I'm tired after work trying to sort out the mess of a 20+ year old government simulation so that I can add some new capability in. Sucks when I find a pattern to follow only to find out after I'm done that the pattern I found was broken, fixed in the next build and I have to redo everything.

Ugh.

[SpreadsheetGamr]

Man, when I looked at the crying crab I thought the SHC difference was surely a one-off mistake for a newer element.  I was sure it would be patched.  I just assumed everything else had uniform SHC in all states.  Then we had the ice heater, and now this... How many elements have different SHC in different states and how has it taken until so recently for these kind of uses to come to light?? It's crazy!

[mathmanican]

21 minutes ago, Chthonicone said:

Ugh.

Ouch.  Doesn't sound fun. ONI is hopefully a stress relief. 

I've been making crazy contraptions for 2 years, with the hope of bringing to light the flaws in the current ONI universe. Lots of those flaw have been fixed.  It's been a fun two years. @Saturnus made a nice image that goes along with our banter. 

[0xFADE]

Flaking without visible damage is still a thing.

[mathmanican]

11 minutes ago, SpreadsheetGamr said:

how has it taken until so recently for these kind of uses to come to light

We've been abusing, and using SHC, and phase change shenanigans, for quite some time. The properties of molten lead (new element that didn't exist previously) are uniquely fitted to this build. Almost any other solidify/melt mechanic would generate heat as well (known and used in the crude->NG chain), but you need something that can use the turbine to solidify and then reheat easily, and then repeat rapidly.  Molten lead stood out, when I glanced through the list, as basically the only really useful option. So I gave it a try. BOOM!. 

Oh, and since it's a new universe with completely different properties, I'm sure we'll be finding new fun mechanics for another year, at least. 

34 minutes ago, 0xFADE said:

It probably isn't hot enough to do anything with steam, hmm

Yep. That's why I tossed that option.  It needs to melt and solidify above 125C, and below a 2 vent open steam turbine.  Molten lead shines here. 

[SpreadsheetGamr]

3 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

We've been abusing, and using SHC, and phase change shenanigans, for quite some time. The properties of molten lead (new element that didn't exist previously) are uniquely fitted to this build. Almost any other solidify/melt mechanic would generate heat as well (known and used in the crude->NG chain), but you need something that can use the turbine to solidify and then reheat easily, and then repeat rapidly.  Molten lead stood out, when I glanced through the list, as basically the only really useful option. So I gave it a try. BOOM!. 

Interesting.  I've never pursued crude->NG, had no idea.  Nice one.

[Chthonicone]

7 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

Ouch.  Doesn't sound fun. ONI is hopefully a stress relief. 

I've been making crazy contraptions for 2 years, with the hope of bringing to light the flaws in the current ONI universe. Lots of those flaw have been fixed.  It's been a fun two years. @Saturnus made a nice image that goes along with our banter. 

Too tired. Gotta get up to go back into work again tomorrow. It's not as bad though, as I love learning new things, even if they are how not to do it. As an added bonus, I get a refresher in Java Reflection programming today, transmitting classes over a network this time, so 2 systems can work even if they don't have the same class structure in the communication portion. Crazy, huh?

My main time to play ONI is on the weekends and any days off I get. Due to the long times in between, I tend to forget what I was going to do, and restart instead. That's my kryptonite XD.

[0xFADE]

Can you tile this so that the melting just goes right back to another cooling section and repeats for awhile.  Make it a little longer and then thinner?

[mathmanican]

Just now, SpreadsheetGamr said:

Interesting.  I've never pursued crude->NG, had no idea.  Nice one.

Once you use all the "premade" machines, and want to start experimenting with making your own machines, the ONI universe completely transforms into another game. And this part of the game is what keeps people here for thousands of hours.  If all you do is use the premade stuff, and treat the ONI universe like our world, then the game will probably get boring after a few hundred hours, and people will complain that it has "no replayability". Those poor souls miss out on so much.  

[SpreadsheetGamr]

13 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

Once you use all the "premade" machines, and want to start experimenting with making your own machines, the ONI universe completely transforms into another game. And this part of the game is what keeps people here for thousands of hours.  If all you do is use the premade stuff, and treat the ONI universe like our world, then the game will probably get boring after a few hundred hours, and people will complain that it has "no replayability". Those poor souls miss out on so much.  

To clarify, I had no idea about the SHC difference arising in crude to NG.  I did know about the crude-NG path, I've just never had cause to build it in any of my games.  I lurked the forums a bit during EA.  There's a lot of stuff in ONI I haven't done yet even though I've apparently spent 888 hours in game.  Just the variety of new maps they added on launch has added quite a lot of replayability for me.

[mathmanican]

10 minutes ago, 0xFADE said:

Can you tile this so that the melting just goes right back to another cooling section and repeats for awhile.  Make it a little longer and then thinner?

Tiling it, as in stacking two on top of each other?  It can be done, but realize that the max mass of molten lead is over 10t (so each tile you see on the left is >10t - lots of lead). Most maps won't have enough mass for the build I made. That's why a door pump would work better. You also want to throttle the input a bit (as you can't freeze 15t chunks very well), hence the beads falling, and viscosity throttling, cap it at 100kg/0.04s. 

If we put the melter ABOVE the solidifier, and use sweepers to move 1000kg chunks of solid lead up, then we can delete the waterfall/door pump entirely (this is @Zarquan's idea that I will try). We'll want to use some kind of liquid catch, and distribution system, to make sure we still throttle the flow, but that should be simple to do if the sweeper arms can keep up. 

If I can get this thing to melt 2000kg/s, then the power potential is probably around 3 turbines running almost full time.  I may be able to do that in less space (minus the extra turbine) than what you see above, but more testing is needed. I figure @Saturnus will probably grossly simplify this, compact it, and max out the juice.  I'll play with it some more till then.