Sustainability Questions

[BLACKBERREST3]

I have a few questions regarding sustainability. There are quite a few things that differ from map to map like which planets/geysers you roll for a map. I want inputs on all the variety of ways you can generate mass/atmosphere within the game that results in a net positive gain. I haven't played oni in a while, so I am coming back into it after reading a few posts and forums. Here is a list that i know of right now. please include exploits as well.

1. Morbs (do i need to save scum to add more or can I automate this process?)

2. PW off-gassing to chain into puft-algae terrarium. From the math i did, not accounting for rounding errors or how I would even know what counts as one, 44.399 parts PW gives 44 parts O2 + 183.375 parts polluted dirt. This is a very inefficient process because of how much infrastructure you would need to set up even with a MOGOM.

3. Wild Plants/Animals, I know pacu can reproduce when overcrowded, but what about tame-glum-overcrowded (not cramped) hatches, shove voles, etc. I remember reading a post that said reproduction is 1.66%/cycle not 2%. Is that for every critter?

4. Geysers/Volcanoes/Planets

5. Comets/Comet Accessories. Co2 Capture with water beading, Regolith, Metals

6. Rocket Launching Exhaust Capture. Start at the bottom to Maximize throughput.
7. Duplicant Farming, Assuming you can feed them and supply them with O2, they can excrete PW and Co2.

8. Ethanol Production/Consumption. This requires too much infrastructure to be efficient is what I've been hearing, but combined with pips this does seem to be a "non-exploit" way of infinite food/water. No exploit wars pls, all methods welcome.

9. Does matter conversion still work with a vacuum between 2 gasses?

10. Metal Cannon, Cycle an Airlock door open and close when it's at melting point and it will duplicate the metal. This doesn't give you infinite food or oxygen however.

This is a thought experiment as well for those who have played ONI for a while now. Can we find a way to sustain an infinite number of dupes with as little infrastructure as possible. I.e stacking an infinite amount of critters, gasses, or liquids in one spot. Also, I want to find a way that works on all maps. Here is a design I call the "Critter Crowder" That passively filters eggs from all but slicksters and pokeshells. Shovevoles can be trapped in the door on the top. A question on critters and FPS, If I limit a critter to not have a path, will my fps still tank if i have a thousand of them? Hopefully this topic can spark some fun conversations and be informative for the casual players as well.

[Vaaz86]

Morbs can be created with outhouses

[DarkMoge]

1 hour ago, BLACKBERREST3 said:

1. Morbs (do i need to save scum to add more or can I automate this process?)

You can kinda automate it, morbs spawn after a specific amount of cycles that an outhouse stays full without emptying... After a morb spawns, you can remove the floor below the outhouse and make the morb fall, it will allow another morb to spawn from same outhouse. I used to explore morb + puft farm, so I had like 100 full outhouses at the time, spawning morbs... But, morbs produce way too little mass  You would need way too many of them. They do not produce anything when in too low gas pressure, they stop producing in too high of gas pressure too (and by that I mean, they do stop, if the pressure drops soon after, they will still refuse to produce mass). So, stacking too many of them in the same spot is out of question.

1 hour ago, BLACKBERREST3 said:

3. Wild Plants/Animals, I know pacu can reproduce when overcrowded, but what about tame-glum-overcrowded (not cramped) hatches, shove voles, etc. I remember reading a post that said reproduction is 1.66%/cycle not 2%. Is that for every critter?

Starving animals is generally not worth it, other than pacus. You can get a lot of meat and eggs and save space by assigning ranchers. Animal ranches take way less space to feed your colony than any wild plants. You can use plants inside your ranches to feed your critters though. 3 wild trees feed full ranch of pips. 16 balm lilies feed 8 dreckos. 18 mealwood, feed 6 glossy drecko. You can feed wild plants to sage hatches, but I am not sure about the ratio. Slicksters live off your CO2. Shove voles are by far the most space efficient source of food, but I am not sure how much regolith do you actually get on average per cycle from meteor showers. You can make pufts live off your chroline geysers... As long as you can separate the puft prince from the other pufts, you are only losing mass at 5% rate. You could also make pufts live on your oxygen (the ratio for that is not terrible, 1 dupe needs 60kg of oxygen... if you can separate puft prince, 60kg of oxygen would support 24 pufts.

1 hour ago, BLACKBERREST3 said:

4. Geysers/Volcanoes/Planets

You are limited by how many of those you get per seed.  so, you cant support infinite dupes.

1 hour ago, BLACKBERREST3 said:

7. Duplicant Farming, Assuming you can feed them and supply them with O2, they can excrete PW and Co2.

supporting dupes is generally more expensive than their PW and CO2 production.

1 hour ago, BLACKBERREST3 said:

8. Ethanol Production/Consumption. This requires too much infrastructure to be efficient is what I've been hearing, but combined with pips this does seem to be a "non-exploit" way of infinite food/water. No exploit wars pls, all methods welcome.

I have talked about it a lot in one of my threads... Though, I do have to say that the chain does produce a lot of mass if the mass is what you are looking for. The problem is actually making use of that mass. The 800 kg of polluted dirt could be offgassed into pO2, enough for 12 dupes. But you would need to wait 1000 cycles before your offgassing speed becomes high enough with... You can reduce the delay to 86 cycles if you spread it over larger amount of boxes... It is better than morbs, I have to give it that. But it still takes a loooot of space.

If you plant around 32 wild trees, you can get water from it in non cheaty way. 450 kg/cycle. But it still takes a lot of space.

Another non cheaty way of getting water is boiling oil. It should not be underestimated, because of how many actual oil wells you can find on your map. Recently, I generated a seed that had 39 oil wells. And apparently, there exist a seed with 51 oil wells. You can get about 160 kg/cycle of water by just boiling it to petroleum or even more if you boil it to sour gas... But, petroleum boiler is more space efficient.

[BLACKBERREST3]

Ah, I forgot about about the Sourgas condensers, thanks for that one. They are limited by how many reservoirs you can tap, but you can get a reasonable amount of dupes this way. With polluted dirt, I feel like it's more efficient to just feed it to sages, turn it into fertilizer, or just anything other than off-gassing cause like you said it takes 1000 cycles.

One idea I had was pacu - Sage - coal power - co2 - molt slickster - petrol boiler meth condenser - nat gen - pw offgas - oxy chiller. All the critters involved take care of food in this process too. The limiting factor in this would be space to put coal and nat gas gens.

[QuQuasar]

Wild-farming ethanol is probably the simplest solution. A while back I worked out this map for a single duplicant eating slickster burgers.

                                        8 Arbor Branches (2 trees)
                                                  \
                                           Eth. Distiller, 600 kg/cycle
                                                        \
                                                       Petroleum Generator, 25% uptime
                                                         /                               \
                                                66.6 g/s CO2                 112.6 g/s water
                                                      /                                       \
2 sleet wheat    1 lettuce   2 slickster                              Electrolyzer
         \                    |                   /                                                \
                Borger                                                                     Oxygen

Numbers are rounded up, so if you scale up you won't need (for example) as many lettuce as duplicants.

[Loscil2]

28 minutes ago, QuQuasar said:

Borger

heh, borger

[0xFADE]

Nice and efficient conversion tree there.

[BLACKBERREST3]

the conversion tree on converting trees was a nice touch

have they fixed the ice melting on rails exploit btw? even I can’t justify this one, that’s just too much water.

Another thought i had which requires experimenting. if you stacked an absurd amount of pips on one tile with an arbor tree, what number range do they stabilize at? i guess the same test could be applied for dreckos as well with mealwood, lillies, or blossoms if their starvation meter constantly resets, then would that be enough for them to reproduce an egg before dying. thats my hypothesis.

[DemainaNyx]

3 hours ago, BLACKBERREST3 said:

1. Morbs (do i need to save scum to add more or can I automate this process?)

Morbs are spawned from an outhouse every 2 cycles IIRC.  So what you can do is chain a few Filters together set to 200 seconds each until you get 1200 seconds timer.  I normally add an additional filter for 50 seconds or so just to be certain, then I open the door under the outhouse to reset it's countdown to produce more.  Neotuck design from this thread is pretty much what I use if trying to farm morbs.

Morbs are very picky though.  I believe the don't output po2 if they can't move, so you can't just trap thousands in one tile.  Also they only produce to around 500g and then stop and also don't produce in a vacuum, so you have to use a pump of some sort (gas, door, bead, etc) to ensure that the pressure is low enough that they keep producing but don't let it get too low.  They also don't produce a ton of oxygen anyway, so you would need tons to really do anything with them.  They are great in addition to other methods you have like supplementing a dormant polluted o2 geysers, but I doubt you could run anything off them alone without your FPS tanking.

 

3 hours ago, BLACKBERREST3 said:

2. PW off-gassing to chain into puft-algae terrarium. From the math i did, not accounting for rounding errors or how I would even know what counts as one, 44.399 parts PW gives 44 parts O2 + 183.375 parts polluted dirt. This is a very inefficient process because of how much infrastructure you would need to set up even with a MOGOM.

It depends what you are doing with this.  Depending on your end goal will change your results and what you're willing to put into the system to get what you want out.

Terrariums work as a nice way to produce both Oxygen and Polluted Oxygen to feed Dense Pufts and Pufts.  Their two pens can be set up around the terrariums and it will supply them just using automation and some power for sweepers.  Now, it's not a fast process, uses up algae which might not be infinite, and costs a ton of water for this, but you can create a fairly simple process that only requires a dupe to empty them once in a while to feed raise pufts for their outputs..

PW off-gassing can be done much easily with a few methods.  One is filling liquid reservoirs and deconstructing them which leaves a 5T bottle on the floor.  This is easily repeatable and you can just build and deconstruct a few reservoirs every so often to recharge the system.  Another is by simply using a polluted water pipe, a pipe bridge, and one segment of pipe afterwards.  Set an Empty Pipe command after the pipe bridge and a dupe will infinitely empty that polluted water out into bottles on the floor. 

But again, what do we want this bottled water for?

Say we want to go to space.  We need steel.  We can flank these bottles with deodorizers to get clay from regolith which infinitely falls from the sky.  That clay could become ceramics or we can feed that clay to hatches for coal.  That coal becomes refined carbon for our steel and the hatch egg shells take care of our lime while we also get refined iron from the sky as well.  We also have a ton of oxygen from this process so we can feed dense pufts for more egg shells and get Oxylite without costing gold or power.  All we need is a fuel for the rocket (which since we have polluted water, we can easily make liquid Hydrogen) and we've just turned a polluted water source and space rocks into steel, oxylite (or LOX), liquid hydrogen, ceramics, and food.

 

4 hours ago, BLACKBERREST3 said:

3. Wild Plants/Animals, I know pacu can reproduce when overcrowded, but what about tame-glum-overcrowded (not cramped) hatches, shove voles, etc. I remember reading a post that said reproduction is 1.66%/cycle not 2%. Is that for every critter?

This I'm unsure about.  I'm pretty sure overcrowded reduces their happiness and happiness reduces how quickly they reproduce.  All the critters I have (hatches, pips, and shove voles) say 2% per cycle but again, that might just be a rounding thing where it actually is 1.66%.

The issue though is that most critter live for a long time.  Dreckos are 150 cycles while hatches, pips, pokeshells, shove voles, and slicksters are all 100 cycles.  I don't remember gassy moo or pufts life cycle though.  Pacu's are nice because they die out quickly and thus keep cycling.  I've never tested it but I want to say the other critter would starve before dropping their egg, so if you wanted to maintain a certain amount of critters you'd have to feed them to ensure they lay an egg before dying off, but again, I don't know for sure. 

Again, depends what you want from the critters though.  If you have to feed them to keep the population going anyway, it's much easier just to run one 7 critter stable and sweep all the eggs out the instant they are laid.  You could sweep the extra eggs into a 1 tile chamber like your Critter Crowder and drop some food in to sustain the extra ones.  Would allow you to eventually get rid of ranches but I don't know how much space that would take up.  Each Critter Crowded would be visible to the others in that area and I don't know how many tiles you'd have to dig up to ensure that each ones isn't cramped.  Obviously you could probably calculate how many you need and only keep that number of critters in that room, but I would think it would be easier to ranch the easy ones and only contain the annoying ones. 

Pips are easy to ranch and produce dirt quickly in my experience while slicksters have a low output even when tamed.  So keeping 1000s of slicksters in a crowder would eliminate the need to groom them while having a high quantity to eat Co2 while you could only have that one pip ranch.

Yunru made a post a while back about her infinite hatch ranch which takes advantage of hatches burrowing when trapped in doors.  So here you have a closed system that houses tons of critter while they still reproduce yet take up no space.

I don't believe shove voles get cramped, seeing as I have a 96 tile ranch with 20 shove voles in it and they are all fine.  Hungry and Glum but not overcrowded or cramped.  So would stand to reason if you had a shove vole ranch you could quickly up their population, dump them in a metal box, and just feed them now and then to keep their numbers up without needing a rancher to groom them.  Just make sure to add a robo-digger because I don't know if they lay eggs while burrowing.

 

With the addition of pips, wild plants are easy to accomplish.  Again though, it depends what you want with these.  You can easily set up wild arbor trees for pips for free dirt or grow wild mealwood for glossy dreckos.  I like wild waterweeds since they are a pain to grow domestically but I just domesticate most other plants because the cost isn't that high anyway.  It depends what you want.

Right now there is no need to have more than one food type in your colony, so it's often easier to just set up one farm that feeds everyone and that's it.  Setting up an infinite pacu ranch is simple and Yunru showed us how to farm tons of hatches.  Shove voles also drop absurd amounts of meat so right there we have barbecue, cooked fish, and surf'n'turf.  Just wild plant some water weeds and sleet wheet and you can also add Frost Buns and Frost Burgers to your menu as well.  Gotta calculate how many you need but that would be easy.  And, if nothing else, supplement some domestic plants in addition to the wild one to reduce the amount of space you need.  Once all the wild plants are in the ground, go back and add farm tiles between them for more food 

This is beyond overkill for thimble reeds, but below I have 41 thimble reeds growing and I can support 48 in this area, some wild and some domestic.  Doesn't take much to do this for waterweeds and sleet wheat as well.  According to the assistant I'd need 2 wild sleet wheat and 0.67 wild water weeds per dupe, so it isn't insane.  With domestic sleet wheat it goes to 0.5 per dupe, so mixing domestic and wild would easily sustain larger colonies with a small foodprint.  And even if you are low on lettuce for a few cycles, your dupes still have barbecue, cooked fish, and surf'n'turf to eat in the mean time so they won't starve.

 

 

5 hours ago, BLACKBERREST3 said:

4. Geysers/Volcanoes/Planets

I'm an advocate of infinite storage, so geysers and such are easy for me.  Make a geyser box around each geyser and pipe the gas away.  Keeps them from getting over pressurized so they always produce while not dormant.

Spoiler

 

Then I send that gas through a main pipeline through my base to my infinite gas storage tank.  From here gases are sorted and sent off where needed or stored for later use.

Spoiler

 

Volcanos are a bit more tricky.  I want to extract as much power out of their heat as I can, so I opt for a bit of a convoluted solution.  Have to credit Nakomaru for the design idea since her design helped me come up with this one.  Here's her original post.

This takes advantage of the sweepers diagonal range to reach into these hotter areas.  The volcano in the example is only a minor one but the steel sweeper will still overheat in that steam room so using this approach prevents that.  Might be able to use space materials to run a sweeper in that room but I don't have access so I didn't attempt that.

Spoiler

Hydrogen, steam, and crude oil are used in this design.  It's important to have 140kg of steam or less around the volcano or else it will overpressurize and stop producing.  The other rooms aren't as percise as the volcano room.

Automation is fairly simple.  Two parts control the sweeper.  First, the left system must be not cooling anything because we don't want new 

 

This system takes advantage of a few things.  There are some off screen conveyor mechanics that we use.  For some reason, conveyor rails won't transfer heat properly if off screen, so we use a conveyor bridge and extra diamond tile to ensure that heat is transferred properly.

Next we use doors to trap materials in a tile, which transfers heat much faster than just running a conveyor rail through liquid or a gas and since it is a door, we can automate how long we wish to trap it there unlike with conveyor rails which we can't automate.

With both these together, the output from the volcano comes out around 30C.  Could probably lower it more by tweaking the aquatuner to cool the area to 0C instead of 20C, but I don't feel the need too.  Most of the heat is extracted via the steam turbines.  The first turbine cools it to about 400C, the second to about 110C and that last bit of heat is absorbed into the cooling chamber and spit out via the aquatuner.

 

As far as planet harvest goes, I never tried.  I'm sure there's a clever way to set it up. 

If you recycle the heat and exhaust from the rockets you could probably make it a net neutral process or even make it a positive activity.  It depends what you are gathering from the planets though.  Brothgar made a video a bit ago where he discussed using the heat from rockets to cook crude oil into petrol or run a steam turbine.

Depending on the length of the rocket tube in your asteroid you can get a net positive water output by gathering all the steam, but I can't find the post where the person launched a rocket from the volcanic biome to space to prove it.

All depends on what you are gathering.  Diamond is a finite resource without space, so that would be worth it.  Wheezeworts aren't as powerful as before but could be worth the effort if you had dreckos to keep them running then that's free cooling power.  If gathering water, I mean, sure, it works, but not as fast as a sour gas boiler does or just launching a steam rocket so what you want from these planets is important as is what you use to get there.  Might be better to use steam rockets as you can quickly capture the output and convert it into usable materials unlike Co2 which has a longer chain to convert back.

 

6 hours ago, BLACKBERREST3 said:

5. Comets/Comet Accessories. Co2 Capture with water beading, Regolith, Metals

I use doors to mine all the regolith and convey all the debris away from my solar array.  Power free and automatic cleanup without needing to cool it.  I think capturing the Co2 would be better by simply cooling it down to liquid form before it escapes, but I'm unsure how much power that would take.  Again, I feel like capturing the Co2 from the rockets would be easier to maintain than trying to gather from the meteors because we know where the rocket will exhaust from but don't know where the meteors will hit.  

You can melt the regolith down to magma and back to igneous but I've heard different opinions on whether it generates heat or needs heat added to work.  Personally I've never tried it and instead just opt to use the regolith for stuff instead of sand.  Run it through the door trap turbine system and it will be close to 110C before leaving with only needing the 120W to run the conveyor loader.

 

7 hours ago, BLACKBERREST3 said:

6. Rocket Launching Exhaust Capture. Start at the bottom to Maximize throughput.

Mentioned this above.  It's possible but I don't know about the power consumption to accomplish it.  You also have the heat from the rockets that can be harvested as well for power or to heat up other systems (petrol boiler).

 

6 hours ago, BLACKBERREST3 said:

8. Ethanol Production/Consumption. This requires too much infrastructure to be efficient is what I've been hearing, but combined with pips this does seem to be a "non-exploit" way of infinite food/water. No exploit wars pls, all methods welcome.

It depends from how I see it.  It costs 4 ethanol distillers to power one petrol generator.  From that we get Co2, polluted water, polluted dirt, and about 1Kw of usable power.  Co2 can go to molten slicksters for free petrol, meat, and egg shells.  Polluted water can be sieved and turned into oxygen and hydrogen for more free power since SPOMs generate more power than they cost to run.  Polluted dirt can either be composted into dirt (dupe time and time) or be fed to pokeshells for free food, 5Kg molt shell, 10Kg molt shell, egg shells, and meat.

So, from those 4 ethanol distillers, we have power, oxygen, water, dirt, meat, and lime.  Takes up space but I don't use half my asteroid anyway so losing a bit of space isn't going to hurt me.  As Brothgar shows you can use them to create cold oxygen (12C) for your base only using aluminum for all the components, which is really useful when you can't leave your starting forest biome and don't have access to gold or steel yet.  He also shows a way of removing heat without using a steam turbine by heating up the hydrogen and then deleting it via the hydrogen generator, and since it has no byproducts from it, the temperature of the hydrogen doesn't matter.

So, how I see it, it depends what you need.  If you don't have a good water source, you can instead plant some trees and turn them into water/oxygen essentially.  Yeah, it will take a lot of trees to accomplish this, but that's better than suffocating because you didn't find a water source quick enough to run your electrolyzer.  I don't know about domestic plants but since they take dirt and polluted water, the byproducts of this system can also be used to keep it going, though I don't know of that's indefinite.

Alternatively, run ethanol as a backup power supply.  Store up the ethanol in an infinite tank and if you ever fall short on power, the ethanol is used.  That way all that lumber from trees is used for something without needing to set up a large infrastructure to power your whole base.  You can instead use just a few distillers that run for 1000s of cycles and use it when needed.  That would be useful when setting up your space base, since opening those bunker doors before the solar array is set up can really strain your power system.

 

7 hours ago, BLACKBERREST3 said:

7. Duplicant Farming, Assuming you can feed them and supply them with O2, they can excrete PW and Co2.

I want to say this is not enough to power anything, but I've never attempted.  Oxygen and food isn't hard so long as you have enough water. 

With lumber we have a free system that generates meat and water so as long as you have the right temperature for the trees, it should be easy once we calculate how many dupes this system supports.

With a sour gas boiler, we have extra water and power to support the colony and keep the trees in a comfy range.  Could probably calculate how many dupes one oil reservoir can support.

With infinite gas and liquid storage, geysers could be producing forever and all those outputs can be turned into something depending on what the base needs.

The infinite hatch ranch and shove voles appearing to infinitely stack covers most food concerns.

So, without numbers in front of me, I'd say it's possible to set up a rather large base of some 100+ dupes without much hassle once you've gotten to the point of making some of these systems.  Once the infrastructure is in place and going, should be possible though I don't know how much room it would take to house all those dupes and the stuff they need.  Cots and bathrooms alone might be a ton of space even with properly scheduling them out to reduce the amount needed at one time.

Is it worth doing this though?  For some PW, Co2, and possibly some nat gas from flatulent dupes, I doubt it.  Not to mention your FPS would probably be horrible but it's fun to dream.

 

6 hours ago, BLACKBERREST3 said:

9. Does matter conversion still work with a vacuum between 2 gasses?

That was removed.  

[Game Update] - 355043

Fix bug where gasses could merge and convert types if two gasses tried moving into a vacuum cell on the same tick. 

However, pretty much every gas can be converted to most other gas albeit through some convoluted means.  Take chlorine for example seeing as everyone seems to vent it. 

Chlorine can be liquefied and fed to gas grass.  Gas grass is eaten by Gassy Moos and produce Nat Gas.  Nat Gas is run through a generator to produce polluted water and carbon dioxide.  Polluted water can be off gassed to polluted oxygen or sieved and sent to an electrolyzer to produce oxygen and hydrogen.  The only important gas left out would be sour gas, but that Co2 could be fed to slicksters for crude/petrol and converted to sour gas.

So, while it's not as simple as "put two gases near each other by a vacuum" any more, you can still convert any gas into most other gas, it just takes a bit of a chain reaction to do it. 

Don't know if you can convert stuff into chlorine though, but there is rust to get chlorine back.

 

6 hours ago, BLACKBERREST3 said:

10. Metal Cannon, Cycle an Airlock door open and close when it's at melting point and it will duplicate the metal. This doesn't give you infinite food or oxygen however.

I think that was removed unless this is a new approach to the same thing.

[Game Update] - 355385

Fix mass duplication on ore state change.

However, we don't really need this.  Copper and gold ore and refined iron fall from the sky.  The only ore we can't mass produce is wolframite but that can be found on the Glimmering Planet if you are lucky enough to get one in your star map.  So only the seeds without a Glimmering Planet are locked out of this and even with this you couldn't just produce it without sandbox/debug mode first.

Personally I think that should be fixed.  Being unable to make Thermium because of RNG seems quite unfair.  Have it be a care package item after 200 cycles or have a metal comet rain some down occasionally but not that often or have the Glimmering Planet be a guaranteed planet but have it's guaranteed spot be really far away.  Just, something.  Something so we aren't locked out of a part of the game due to RNG.

 

 

[BLACKBERREST3]

- I agree with you about the RNG of Care Packages. I mentioned in another post that excess skill points as currency for the printer pod would take care of this issue. I am no modder, but I hope this idea comes to life. There are insulation melters due to the 200x multiplier of rails in solids to get more tungsten, but this does seem kinda ridiculous for just one type of metal.

- I think the metal cannon bug still works, I tried it out in debug and even though some of the doors have melted, it still produces metals. I used unpowered doors here, but they might not melt if you set them to a faster pulse.

Spoiler

- The bug with the thermal transfer on rails can get kind of annoying too, unless you want to mimic a quantum state in ONI then it seems more like a feature.

- how do you use doors to mine the regolith?

- This is what I have observed with critters.

Spoiler

It seems with some automation similar to starving pacus, you could feed hatches a certain amount and then dump them into a room where reproduction is guaranteed. Something along the lines of this.

Spoiler

This is an example build that is not supposed to function, but rather convey an idea. You would have some sort of hatchling/egg holding chamber, then feed them a certain amount. The system would then remember what amount/time you fed them, then dump them into an overcrowded non-cramping area where they will reproduce and repeat the process. This can also be a batch process to not bottleneck the system if you had say 500000 hatches or so. the area would need to be limited to a path of two tiles that prevents back tracking (presumably with a stack of two liquids or one tile of 500kg liquid.

The problem that I see with yunru's build is that he is still feeding them at certain intervals of the day when you should only feed them once to get an egg. This could be done with any critter, but special care needs to be taken when accounting for their pathing. i.e pokeshells, slicksters, and shovevoles ignore stacks of liquid and  dreckos, pips, and shove voles can climb walls. I haven't fully figured out slickster pathing yet, they always seem to drown on me. I might need some help on that if anyone knows how slickster pathing works. You could make a more efficient system if you could reset their starving timer continuously (or once to be enough for an egg), but separating the starving from the not-starving critters would be a hassle unless you somehow synced them all with their 10 cycle window of starvation. This seems like it would be easy to do dreckos and pips unless I have their mechanics wrong and they don't eat from a .1% growing plant continuously. I haven't tested this yet. let me know if I have any misconceptions about how critters function.

[avc15]

PO2 gassing - first, you don't need a mogom. Mogom is a trick for training strength, or reducing the size of a build to generate po2 bottles.

 

Multiple other options.

 

1) algae terrariums produce the vast majority of their o2 from ph2o gassing, if you set them up to. Also they're more labor efficient than a mop.

2) make a large room with high surface area for off gassing. No labor, large build.

3) use a door compressor to raise the gassing rate, reduce the size of your build. Small build, a bit cheaty if you're bound by realism scruples, very high production rate, no labor.

[mathmanican]

12 hours ago, DemainaNyx said:

21 hours ago, BLACKBERREST3 said:

10. Metal Cannon, Cycle an Airlock door open and close when it's at melting point and it will duplicate the metal. This doesn't give you infinite food or oxygen however.

I think that was removed unless this is a new approach to the same thing.

The metal cannon is still in the game. It's a fun thing to build to get massive amounts of metal and heat. 

12 hours ago, BLACKBERREST3 said:

have they fixed the ice melting on rails exploit btw?

Liquid duplication is dead. Hooray!

[BLACKBERREST3]

Thank the ONI gods. That was way too powerful.

[beowulf2010]

6 hours ago, avc15 said:

1) algae terrariums produce the vast majority of their o2 from ph2o gassing, if you set them up to. Also they're more labor efficient than a mop.

2) make a large room with high surface area for off gassing. No labor, large build.

3) use a door compressor to raise the gassing rate, reduce the size of your build. Small build, a bit cheaty if you're bound by realism scruples, very high production rate, no labor.

4) Fill liquid reservoirs with polluted water and deconstruct them.

5) Overpressure a polluted water storage bin built with airflow tiles. 

Definitely lots of ways. The MOGOM is nice for building strength but isn't in my first 3 choices for making polluted water bottles for offgassing purposes. 

[BLACKBERREST3]

12 minutes ago, beowulf2010 said:

5) Overpressure a polluted water storage bin built with airflow tiles. 

Does that off-gas at the same rate as a bottle?

[beowulf2010]

10 minutes ago, BLACKBERREST3 said:

Does that off-gas at the same rate as a bottle?

Sadly, no, it's not a consistent offgas like bottles. But since you overpressure it, it will offgas way more gas on the ticks that it does offgas.

[BLACKBERREST3]

makes sense, thanks for clearing that up for me.