Illogical Water Sieve

[Guinaro]

Currently I find (the change to) the (aswell as the former) sieve completely illogical. I played with one of the Dynamic Sieve mods which seem more logical to me.
Now we have a Sieve that has it's own heat production of 4kDTU/s. So in my opinion if it outputs heat it shouldn't add heat to the outputted Polluted Dirt or Clean Water. That actual heat should come from converting power into mechanical energy by forcing water through the filtration medium. If you want to add a tempshift to the water of +5°C or so, again can still make sense.
If Klei does want to heat up the water. That is also fine by me: but output water at 65°C or so, and have it also kill the germs in the water aswell. Ofcourse power consumption should increase by a lot then, depending on the input temperature of the Polluted Water. Again in line with the expected functionality of the sieve. As you still need to heat up or cool the water a lot to do the later otherwise. But that is the function of the Aquatuners/Liquid Tepidizers.
Having your sieve break, when inputting below zero Polluted Water is also logical. Having it break for outputting Steam due to 95°C polluted water also makes sense.
Heating said water to an arbitrary 40°C water is not!

Furthermore where does all the sand go? I would have expected it to convert sand/regolith to Polluted Dirt in a 1:1 ratio! Actually even adding some extra since you know, you are filtering stuff out of the water, which then should probably result in some loss of water!
Great sieve at the moment: adds a virtual 800 g of material/second and magically heats up your water!

Not all physical laws can represented in a game, but this seems to be very easy to implement.

If not: please somebody mod the Sieve again to Dynamic input/output temps and no material loss or at least balanced material loss (less water, more polluted dirt). Thank you.

[N00bieMeap]

well this game is Illogical

[OxCD]

I agree on your point. For me, WS should have, or fixed 40°C (& assumed illogicality), which still open many doors to interesting setups, or a fully dynamic output, always mixing PH²O t° to sand t° based on heat capacity, but without this minimum t°.

I would be OK for both, each one have advantage & disavantage, each one allow different interseting setups.

The actual design, caught in the middle, is weird and awkward to setup.

 

You've highlighted a point I've never thought about. The solid element (sand) which is not fully converted to PDirt (1000g/s sand => 200g/s Pdirt, for those who wonder). And I have to admit I've not that much opinion about it... To be logical, it should output a bit more PDirt than sand used. But sounds like 1000g/s (or 1010, for example) could be too much for devs expectations... Maybe lower sand input so ? From 1000 to 190 for example ? Or meet halfway, 490 sand for 500 PDirt ?

[Fischer_L]

I fully agree. If you must fix it, make it dynamic output or constant increase output (+5, +10 or + whatever degree to input temp).

[Yunru]

1 hour ago, N00bieMeap said:

well this game is Illogical

Ehh...

The game is unrealistic, but a large part of why it works is it (mostly) isn't illogical. Things do what you'd logically expect them to. Except dupes. **** dupes.

[Gurgel]

15 minutes ago, Yunru said:

Ehh...

The game is unrealistic, but a large part of why it works is it (mostly) isn't illogical. Things do what you'd logically expect them to. Except dupes. **** dupes.

Well, since it is all code and executed deterministically (except for those pesky inputs from that "bio component" in front of the monitor), it does not get any more logical than this. Some things are pretty non-obvious to the average bio-component though.

[Xuhybrid]

What i don't understand is that people have been asking for this change but instead of delivering what people asked for, they decided to deliver only half of it. Just to satisfy their requirement for early heat problems. Like, how does Klei think that delivering half will satisfy anyone? Now nobody is happy because no matter which side you were on, neither side is getting what they wanted. The players who wanted consistency or realism get half that and half magic. The players who want to use it for cooling got a big slap in the face and their early cooling nerfed (ww/icemaker). The least they could do is make it output the right temperature and actually commit to the change. That way both sides are satisfied.

[Lurve]

10 minutes ago, Xuhybrid said:

Now nobody is happy because no matter which side you were on, neither side is getting what they wanted.

I'm getting what I wanted.  It makes sense that there'd be a minimum temperature - irl filtering systems work that way.  But they don't magically delete heat above that.

[Xuhybrid]

Just now, Lurve said:

I'm getting what I wanted.  It makes sense that there'd be a minimum temperature - irl filtering systems work that way.  But they don't magically delete heat above that.

So you think sieving 5C dirty water through 5C sand would create 40C water? Do you live in the same reality as me? I'm all for the high temperatures. It's more challenge, great. Keeping the minimum makes absolutely zero sense.

[Lurve]

4 minutes ago, Xuhybrid said:

So you think sieving 5C dirty water through 5C sand would create 40C water? Do you live in the same reality as me? I'm all for the high temperatures. It's more challenge, great. Keeping the minimum makes absolutely zero sense.

It wouldn't create clean water at all.  You need reverse osmosis or some other step for that.  Googling RO suggests an operating temperature of 25C, below which it isn't very efficient.  Since that would be a pretty much perfect temp for a base, it's understandable they'd raise it for filtering in SPAAACE.

[EnderCN]

37 minutes ago, Xuhybrid said:

What i don't understand is that people have been asking for this change but instead of delivering what people asked for, they decided to deliver only half of it. Just to satisfy their requirement for early heat problems. Like, how does Klei think that delivering half will satisfy anyone? Now nobody is happy because no matter which side you were on, neither side is getting what they wanted. The players who wanted consistency or realism get half that and half magic. The players who want to use it for cooling got a big slap in the face and their early cooling nerfed (ww/icemaker). The least they could do is make it output the right temperature and actually commit to the change. That way both sides are satisfied.

This is exactly what I was asking for as well.  I mean in a perfect world they would rework them completely and make it more gradient than it is.  But this is a much better solution than just not having it change temperature at all which seemed like the alternate fix that we could hope for.  A tepid  slime biome shouldn't turn heat into a complete non issue in the game and that is what would happen.  The old method just made heat a joke and it needed a change.

[OxCD]

44 minutes ago, Lurve said:

It wouldn't create clean water at all.  You need reverse osmosis or some other step for that.  Googling RO suggests an operating temperature of 25C, below which it isn't very efficient.  Since that would be a pretty much perfect temp for a base, it's understandable they'd raise it for filtering in SPAAACE.

Too much love...

 

[Nebbie]

23 minutes ago, Lurve said:

It wouldn't create clean water at all.  You need reverse osmosis or some other step for that.  Googling RO suggests an operating temperature of 25C, below which it isn't very efficient.  Since that would be a pretty much perfect temp for a base, it's understandable they'd raise it for filtering in SPAAACE.

Outputs no longer get cooled down from inputs, so it wouldn't be a viable way to keep temperature relatively livable, it'd still only create heat overall, just not by quite as much when inputting cold water; I could live with a water sieve that has a 25 C minimum output.