MeepWantOmelett Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 Just return to the game since QoL MK II, seeing the new goal in game is to reach the Temporal Tear and i feel this is just not for me. I think the direction of the game is now not the same as i thought anymore. I bought this game because the those DUPLICANTS, seeing a working living breathing tiny society is what i enjoyed . The science in the game is insane , but simple enough to understand. AGRICULTURE update, more plants , more food, then more critters then i can build a zoo, thats wonderful! AUTOMATION added, then i can happily lets the dupes have more time to rest, sinced they can dancing now! ROCKET is turning difficulte to me, i have to watched some videos to learn tomaking steel and liquid oxygen, but hey, its all worth it for that GASSY MOO. But now seeing that GOAL of the game, building the colony just to build the rocket to get away, i am slowly relize the game is turning to a SCIENCE SANDBOX. ADDED so many new elements, so many machines, so many biome, and a lots of them now is just for temporal experiment, then so many updates just to fixed some real life maths: SOME MATTER CONVERSION, TEMPERATUTES,... because some peoples got mad because the output water temperatured is fixed (in a cartoonish game in space, not even on EARTH). BIG THANKS to the DEVS to made them satisfied! THE POINT is the new recent changes is making the game less friendly to "casual gamer" like me, the goal is now building the ultimate factory to get a rocket to runaway. The game now requires knowlege to many new elements,new REAL SCIENCE MECHANIC, and thats is not fun to play , like when the first time i see a plant need phosphorus and bleach stone ??!!!! ALSO with adding too many elements to calculate , THE GAME IS NOW LAGGY MORE THAN EVER, and i am having a high-end laptop. I THINK if they go back to made the GOAL of game is to just build a happy colony, its could be so much easier. Reduce the numbers of elements in game, i dont need douzen of choice just to build a tile : sand stone, igenous rock, granite, sedimentary, obsidian, ceramic, mafic, fossils,...( i event saw a couples type of cement and brick in sandbox mode) MAYBE just 3 ? ONE for decors benefit , ONE to thermal conductivity and ONE for isulator ? AND with the update of more realistic materials, some peoples keep demand more realistic physics and more balanced update and the game keep getting laggy. HOW about making DUPLICANT the center of the game, making the goal is to making their life more happiers ? HOW ABOUT some more clothes ? some more foods? some more furnatures, LIGHTINGS? some things for us to build a swimming pool? to build a museum ? an aquarium ? I think its more fun to build a working aquarium with water pipes, heat and stuffs IS MORE FUN than a massive OIL to PETRO BOILER. NOT ADDING MORE ELEMENTS to build MORE MACHINE, USING OLD ELEMENTS is a way to reduced lagging in end game. HOW MANY newplayer will love the GASSY MOO if its took like 50 hours to learn and 50 mores to build to the end game if they re not give up cause LAG ? OR may be i am the only one to enjoy that way to play this game :< watching they dancing... P/S :I bought the game because of the release of the ESPRESSO MACHINE, they re just so cute when sipping coffee Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108370-the-goal-is-to-abandoned-the-colony/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightinggale Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, MeepWantOmelett said: seeing the new goal in game is to reach the Temporal Tear and i feel this is just not for me. I think the direction of the game is now not the same as i thought anymore. Nobody is forcing you to go. You can still play the endless sandbox game. I think the end game goal as well as the achievements are added because a bunch of people have a hard time playing without a set goal. So far I have completely ignored the goals and nothing bad happens from doing that. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108370-the-goal-is-to-abandoned-the-colony/#findComment-1219051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeepWantOmelett Posted July 4, 2019 Author Share Posted July 4, 2019 My goal is to watching them working and dancing. But to reach that , automation research is needed, and when i get to mid game with automation build, the game became slower and more lagging. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108370-the-goal-is-to-abandoned-the-colony/#findComment-1219052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolthulhu Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 I love the new goals, they actually give the game a direction. Not just "have the duplicants run in wheels all day, but with happy faces now", but "have the duplicants run (in wheels) to the far reaches of space!". That said, OP has a valid point: the game is spread thin. We are getting more and more machines and plants that do the same. Salt water is a perfect example: it's polluted water except not. Beans are another: they're just wheat but plain worse in every way. Salt is kinda like sulfur in that it is nearly useless. Lettuce before the nerf was different, not it's just worse mealwood. New food is still just kcal + enjoyment, nothing like bbq which actually changes things. Doing more stuff with the same machines is a great thing. Side effects like cooling, extra products like polluted dirt (ethanol generator is good), a fruit tree that drops fruit and wood on harvest - those make the game different from just one pipeline of in-out which you have to rebuild every game. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108370-the-goal-is-to-abandoned-the-colony/#findComment-1219058 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeesterButts Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 "My goal is to watching them working and dancing." This may be the sweetest sentiment I've seen on the internet in a long time. Keep doing what makes you happy man. I play this game pretty "seriously" but having this little injection of whimsy and fun has really brightened my day. Thank you. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108370-the-goal-is-to-abandoned-the-colony/#findComment-1219069 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittenIsAGeek Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 39 minutes ago, MeepWantOmelett said: OR may be i am the only one to enjoy that way to play this game :< watching they dancing... P/S :I bought the game because of the release of the ESPRESSO MACHINE, they re just so cute when sipping coffee Look at Hipster Mi-Ma, contemplating the usefulness of duplicant brains while dancing to Techno. =^.^= Nice screenshot! Anyway, I read through your post and while you do make some valid arguments, I feel that you're ignoring one particularly big part of ONI: The Player. Simply because a building, or plant, or achievement is there doesn't mean you have to use it. You're free to build your colony in any way you want, set any goals you want, and deal with the problems in any method you choose. Different people are going to have different ideas of how a colony should be developed, as well as what they want to do at the end. Some, like myself, like to set up a stable economy that will run without assistance and leave it like that. Some have posted that their goal is to get all their dupes into rockets and leave the colony. Really, the goal is up to you, and what you decide you want to do. On my machines, game performance hasn't really changed between the QoL III and the current Testing Build, despite the addition of many more elements and buildings. In fact, since the first QoL update, performance has improved a great deal. My old machine averages 60fps well into the late game, which is considerably better than six months ago. You can also go into your game options and decide how frequently autosaves happen -- this can be important when you're running a 1000 cycle colony and saves take 15 to 20 seconds. So overall, performance is up, some broken code has been fixed, more variety has been added... I have no reason to complain. In fact, I would like to take a moment to give a big Thank You to the ONI developers. They've built an amazing game that, according to steam, has kept me entertained for over 4200 hours. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108370-the-goal-is-to-abandoned-the-colony/#findComment-1219072 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xuhybrid Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 The goal is to fire your test subject... cough... i mean duplicant into a black hole. He'll be completely fine. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108370-the-goal-is-to-abandoned-the-colony/#findComment-1219074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightinggale Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, MeepWantOmelett said: when i get to mid game with automation build, the game became slower and more lagging. That's a different problem unrelated to the Temporal Tear. Are you saying you suspect checking for achievement clearing is slowing down the game? If you really do get noteworthy lower framerate due to achievement checks, then there is a serious problem. Also I will add the standard when somebody complains about getting low framerate, which is it might be due to a hot CPU. Increasing the CPU fan speed and airflow around the computer could help. Downclocking the CPU to avoid thermal throttling is also likely to result in a more smooth gameplay. For desktops, a better CPU cooling solution would do wonders. That being said, the fact that there are people who have issues with too hot CPUs is an issue in itself. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108370-the-goal-is-to-abandoned-the-colony/#findComment-1219076 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittenIsAGeek Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, Nightinggale said: That being said, the fact that there are people who have issues with too hot CPUs is an issue in itself. Yes, ONI does a LOT of CPU intensive processing. This has been discussed at length in several different posts on this forum. The biggest factor appears to be the bottleneck between the CPU and the RAM -- so many things need calculating that data is constantly being moved from the RAM, to the CPU, then back again. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108370-the-goal-is-to-abandoned-the-colony/#findComment-1219083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeepWantOmelett Posted July 4, 2019 Author Share Posted July 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, Nightinggale said: That's a different problem unrelated to the Temporal Tear. Are you saying you suspect checking for achievement clearing is slowing down the game? If you really do get noteworthy lower framerate due to achievement checks, then there is a serious problem. Also I will add the standard when somebody complains about getting low framerate, which is it might be due to a hot CPU. Increasing the CPU fan speed and airflow around the computer could help. Downclocking the CPU to avoid thermal throttling is also likely to result in a more smooth gameplay. For desktops, a better CPU cooling solution would do wonders. That being said, the fact that there are people who have issues with too hot CPUs is an issue in itself. Im using a laptop, its run everything fine , but this.... Also , may be im not explaining myself clear enough, i mean right now the goal of the game is to build the rocket involved a lots of new elements calculations and new technology ( i heard uranium coming soon) causing lag I though the goal of game is to build a happy colony ,better living condition,clothings, more rooms type ,more casual jobs ...And building new casual things with old elements might be better ? i dont know, may be not... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108370-the-goal-is-to-abandoned-the-colony/#findComment-1219084 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonEmpire Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 As others have pointed out. "Goal" is just a goal. If you don't want to leave your colony - don't send rocket to the final destination. In games like Civilization (and Thea) for instance, you can go to space and end game claim your victory condition OR you can choose to 'continue' playing your colony. In Craft the World (which was made before ONI. shares the same mechanics as ONI) has an end game portal that the Dwarfs can go into to move to the next world/asteroid. You can choose to stay or you can choose to move on. But Yea- I agree the Game Lags so much end game- why would you even want to stick around (on your colony) for the lag? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108370-the-goal-is-to-abandoned-the-colony/#findComment-1219088 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittenIsAGeek Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 13 minutes ago, MeepWantOmelett said: Im using a laptop, its run everything fine , but this.... Also , may be im not explaining myself clear enough, i mean right now the goal of the game is to build the rocket involved a lots of new elements calculations and new technology ( i heard uranium coming soon) causing lag I though the goal of game is to build a happy colony ,better living condition,clothings, more rooms type ,more casual jobs ...And building new casual things with old elements might be better ? i dont know, may be not... The new elements and new technology are NOT causing the lag. ONI, unlike just about every other game out there, does a LOT of calculations -- thermal energy transfers and pathfinding are some of the big ones and have nothing at all to do with the new items added to the game. To be VERY clear: The "lag" that most players experience is a reduced framerate in the mid- to late-game play where much of the map has been revealed. ONI calculates only in areas that have been opened up (and a short bit into the undiscovered areas). This is not a graphics problem. This is a math problem. For the thermal energy transfer stuff, as an example, you need to take each cell, then do calculations based on buildings or elements within that cell. And you need to repeat that process for EVERY VISIBLE CELL ON THE MAP. Adding a few new elements or buildings doesn't change this particular problem AT ALL, other than changing which elements/buildings are used in the calculations. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108370-the-goal-is-to-abandoned-the-colony/#findComment-1219091 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gracefulmuse Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 12 minutes ago, MeepWantOmelett said: Im using a laptop, its run everything fine , but this.... Also , may be im not explaining myself clear enough, i mean right now the goal of the game is to build the rocket involved a lots of new elements calculations and new technology ( i heard uranium coming soon) causing lag I though the goal of game is to build a happy colony ,better living condition,clothings, more rooms type ,more casual jobs ...And building new casual things with old elements might be better ? i dont know, may be not... One of the other possible end games is to settle the colony by printing 12 dupes, making them all happy, surviving a long time, and building a giant dupe statue! You could aim for that one instead of the spaceship. Adding new elements does not add to calculations, it just changes the numbers used in those calculations. A note about your laptop, Even if it is a gaming laptop, it might not have the best CPU. I used to build and sell computers, and a lot of "Gaming" laptops would skimp out on a strong CPU since its not required for like 90% of games. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108370-the-goal-is-to-abandoned-the-colony/#findComment-1219092 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeepWantOmelett Posted July 4, 2019 Author Share Posted July 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Gracefulmuse said: A note about your laptop, Even if it is a gaming laptop, it might not have the best CPU. I used to build and sell computers, and a lot of "Gaming" laptops would skimp out on a string CPU since its not required for like 90% of games. Well, i am having a i5 7300hq and a gtx 1060, is it not enough ? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108370-the-goal-is-to-abandoned-the-colony/#findComment-1219095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oozinator Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, MeepWantOmelett said: Well, i am having a i5 7300hq and a gtx 1060, is it not enough ? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108370-the-goal-is-to-abandoned-the-colony/#findComment-1219098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittenIsAGeek Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 1 minute ago, MeepWantOmelett said: Well, i am having a i5 7300hq and a gtx 1060, is it not enough ? For ONI, the graphics card statistics are irrelevant. What matters is your single-thread CPU performance combined with the RAM to CPU transfer rate. Your CPU is 4 cores at 2.5ghz. I'm running a much older i5 4690s, which runs 4 cores at 3.5ghz. Because your CPU is inside a laptop, cooling is going to be a factor. For continuous processing, you're not going to be hitting your CPU's turbo speeds because the core will be too hot. So your CPU may be newer and run more efficiently and have a higher top-end speed.. but that low end 2.5ghz is where you're going to sit during continuous processing like for ONI. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108370-the-goal-is-to-abandoned-the-colony/#findComment-1219100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeepWantOmelett Posted July 4, 2019 Author Share Posted July 4, 2019 1 minute ago, KittenIsAGeek said: For ONI, the graphics card statistics are irrelevant. What matters is your single-thread CPU performance combined with the RAM to CPU transfer rate. Your CPU is 4 cores at 2.5ghz. I'm running a much older i5 4690s, which runs 4 cores at 3.5ghz. Because your CPU is inside a laptop, cooling is going to be a factor. For continuous processing, you're not going to be hitting your CPU's turbo speeds because the core will be too hot. I dont think cooling is the problem here, i have a fan next to me, and im using an alienware which have a really big cooling box thingy. All other game is fine. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108370-the-goal-is-to-abandoned-the-colony/#findComment-1219102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightinggale Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, MeepWantOmelett said: Well, i am having a i5 7300hq and a gtx 1060, is it not enough ? I just tested your single core CPU speed (the important stat) against the results from the benchmark thread. It should give you 25-30 fps and the average of all results is 32.7 fps. That looks like it should be playable. The GPU is downright overpowered for this game. I'm back to the issue of this game making the CPU heat up more than most other games. If your computer doesn't cool your CPU enough, then it will slow down to avoid overheating, which in turn means you get way less CPU power than you should have. For all we know, your computer might be designed for burst CPU loads like opening a web page while the cooling is insufficient for continuous high CPU load. Particularly silent laptops tend to be designed based on that strategy. It's nice for silent operation, but it makes them worse than the benchmark indicates for CPU intensive gaming. 1 minute ago, MeepWantOmelett said: I dont think cooling is the problem here, i have a fan next to me, and im using an alienware which have a really big cooling box thingy. All other game is fine. Do you have enough free memory? Also try to measure the CPU temperature. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108370-the-goal-is-to-abandoned-the-colony/#findComment-1219104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittenIsAGeek Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 Just now, MeepWantOmelett said: I dont think cooling is the problem here, i have a fan next to me, and im using an alienware which have a really big cooling box thingy. All other game is fine. Again, I want to point out: All OTHER games use your graphics card heavily. ONI is not a graphics-based game. It is a calculations based game. That uses your CPU more than any other element of your computer. Newer intel processors are designed for balancing multiple threads necessary to running complex operating systems. Older intel processors focused on single-thread processing. This little difference means that older CPUs will out-perform newer ones in a game like ONI that does a very large number of single-thread computing. Trust me, your CPU will not be going into turbo mode at 4.whatever ghz for ONI because it will get too hot. I don't care if its an alienware -- laptops don't have the space necessary to move the heat away from the CPU fast enough. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108370-the-goal-is-to-abandoned-the-colony/#findComment-1219106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OxCD Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 Strong science knowledge isn't necessary to play the game. It has a big part of unrealistic and simplified science, proper to the game, that should make you able to learn it by yourself. But it's indeed a game when the brain is highly sollicited. I think I could be an example. I've no science, nor programing, nor mathematical background, but I've used patience and enjoyed getting mechanisms enough for me to be able to reach cycle 2000 without that much trouble. Furthermore I agree about the late game lag issue. But careful with the actual bêta, it seems that performances are lowered, maybe because of some logging for troubleshoot. You should stay on QoL3 until the release if the lag seems premature on your computer. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108370-the-goal-is-to-abandoned-the-colony/#findComment-1219110 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeepWantOmelett Posted July 4, 2019 Author Share Posted July 4, 2019 6 minutes ago, Nightinggale said: Do you have enough free memory? Also try to measure the CPU temperature. Yeah, ill try that 4 minutes ago, KittenIsAGeek said: Again, I want to point out: All OTHER games use your graphics card heavily. ONI is not a graphics-based game. It is a calculations based game. That uses your CPU more than any other element of your computer. Newer intel processors are designed for balancing multiple threads necessary to running complex operating systems. Older intel processors focused on single-thread processing. This little difference means that older CPUs will out-perform newer ones in a game like ONI that does a very large number of single-thread computing. Trust me, your CPU will not be going into turbo mode at 4.whatever ghz for ONI because it will get too hot. I don't care if its an alienware -- laptops don't have the space necessary to move the heat away from the CPU fast enough. Hope that i can carry on playing with dupes without changing the laptop ( i can't). May be the game map should be smaller, the biome should have more useful elements. And instead of 1 time use, 1 elements can be use for more things. For all the casual gamer like me to enjoy the full game experience. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108370-the-goal-is-to-abandoned-the-colony/#findComment-1219111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oozinator Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 1 hour ago, MeepWantOmelett said: OR may be i am the only one to enjoy that way to play this game :< watching they dancing... Sure not. We had ppl here composing songs with automation sounds and similar coolness included.. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108370-the-goal-is-to-abandoned-the-colony/#findComment-1219112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeepWantOmelett Posted July 4, 2019 Author Share Posted July 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Oozinator said: Sure not. We had ppl here composing songs with automation sounds and similar coolness included.. Is this me or ....? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108370-the-goal-is-to-abandoned-the-colony/#findComment-1219113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittenIsAGeek Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, MeepWantOmelett said: Yeah, ill try that Hope that i can carry on playing with dupes without changing the laptop ( i can't). May be the game map should be smaller, the biome should have more useful elements. And instead of 1 time use, 1 elements can be use for more things. For all the casual gamer like me to enjoy the full game experience. As posted in other threads on this board, there are some things you can do to improve performance. One is limiting paths. Use doors to reduce the number of ways a dupe (or critters!) can go. Also, put debris into their own particular storage bin instead of leaving them piled on the floor. That reduces the number of thermal calculations. For example, instead of making a bin that holds "Raw Minerals," make one that holds "Sandstone" only. Another method that has been discussed is using the debug tools to replace some elements globally -- but this can get confusing and isn't exactly straightforward. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108370-the-goal-is-to-abandoned-the-colony/#findComment-1219114 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OxCD Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 Just now, MeepWantOmelett said: Is this me or ....? Yes it's you lol. Just watched it. Maybe ONI is started up in background, making the whole computer passing out ^^ Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108370-the-goal-is-to-abandoned-the-colony/#findComment-1219115 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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