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"Fiery Weapons:" an addition for Willow's rebalance (no pyro)


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this idea started in conversation with @Pop Guy about Willow's rebalance ideas:

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Pop Guy's initial idea:

But if, finally, Willow could even build "fiery" versions of the basic weapons?
Nothing particularly convoluted or complex: it would be enough to add a single tab for her, the "toys" tab. Here, combining each basic weapon of the game with a red gem can create an identical variant but with a reddish iridescence, with the same BUT features that inflict fire on enemies.

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This is an awesome concept. I would add a "charge" mechanic to the fiery weapons so Willow and other players have a visual reference. She could even have some lines of text related to that.

The warmer the weapon gets the more dmg it deals but also the higher the risk to hurting Herself with fire.

That would be cool cuz she is not gonna affect other stuff around her. It would be more like an insane burning wave causing hp dmg to her only or the person using the weapon. 

Her fiery weapons overheat the person using it but then Willow should have overheat immunity anyways, which by default makes her the best character to use the fiery weapons the first place. 

The weapons will cool down if not used and the charging effect could start again. That could make a great tactical advantage to switch between different weapons to utilize the charge strategically or simply take the hp heat dmg and heal it up. 

Her fiery weapons could even be fireproof in spring... Something we already see in SW and obsidian weapons and a great feature for Willow to be the master assassin in that season. 

The "fiery weapons" could be a really cool addition that doesn't necessarily are related to the "pyro" concept.. but they are closely related to HEAT WEAVES.

soo what do you think?

edit. an idea in conversation with @Zeklo to include a non-use charge system for weapons she could give to the team. Only she can charge those and players need to come back to her for a recharge. I believe this could work in parallel with Willow's charge as in OP to keep it tactical for her and at the same time useful to the group.

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Absorb fire. Period. Maybe when she extinguishes things she absorbs that fire, that way it promotes a non-griefing action—or at the very least managing the fires you end up starting. 

Lava pools could work. 

Maybe she just converts natural overheat temperature.

 

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42 minutes ago, Viktor234 said:

In other words: "Give Willow the SW-Obsidian Spear as special item which outperforms Wigfrid's Battle Spear."

Why should Willow be able to craft better weapons compared to Wigfrid? Just because she isn't OP enough?

cuz she wouldn't make a mess with fire... or burn loot.. or burn other people 

only willow should be able to use these weapons... overheating + fire immunity as a base design...

what does wigfrig has to do with this?? the idea is upgrade the weapons to be better.. key work upgrade... read Pop Guy initial idea on the top was to upgrade normal weapons with red gems... added in base text for better understanding of the idea

And she won't burn stuff with fiery weapons.. The impact when the weapon is charged would be a 40 hp dmg caused by a heat weave on her.. So u can tactically decide if taking the heat to deal mire dmg or change weapons 

 

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That's a nice thing to discuss...

I think part of the experience in choosing your main or identifying with some character is that.
But, I particularly like the personal and unique mechanics of each character, so I'll like Willow's pyro trend.

However, I think it is necessary to bring some benefit when playing together too and the idea of a fire-based weapon with the mechanics of the obsidian tools seems interesting to me.

 

 
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1 hour ago, FreyaMaluk said:

closely related to HEAT WEAVES.

I was thinking about this, something like some fire effects that don't burn just do damage in a circle around her by burning something in the inventory

or maybe drains her sanity per second

Then she probably can fight for a place amongst Wigfrid and Wolfgang

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I had a similar idea but more oriented towards equipment in general:

Basically allow Willow to heat-up any weapon (maybe even armor), much-like Shipwrecked Obsidian—this makes it not a craftable so Celestial Portal exploits aren't a problem, and is present throughout the entire game—since it's not a specific item you don't need to drop it for when you get a Dark Sword or alternative.

You could limit this to herself, or allow her to give heated items to other characters, but since they aren't Willow they'll need to come back to her and ask for a recharge. This would then make her bring something useful to a group.

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I thank Freya very much for having taken up my idea, she is definitely better than me at presenting concepts :)

1 hour ago, Viktor234 said:

In other words: "Give Willow the SW-Obsidian Spear as special item which outperforms Wigfrid's Battle Spear."

Why should Willow be able to craft better weapons compared to Wigfrid? Just because she isn't OP enough?

I understand your criticism, but I don't think it's as you say: Wigfrid recovers life and sanity from the fight, has natural armor, can build an armor, has more damage, can only eat meat.
As you can see, she is designed solely to fight and be pushed to fight.
Willow, on the other hand, would have none of these advantages, which would already make her very different in combat.
Also, Willow's fiery weapons would be thought to exploit: the girl's immunity to fire, the A.I. of enemies entering into crisis.
Two very different things from those that instead uses Wigfrid (which is based more on being a tank, which Willow could never afford).
Furthermore, a burning enemy presents risks: it can set fire to nearby structures, lose the loot and harm other players.
Wigfrid does not present all these risks, it remains an optimal choice if you want to fight and get the maximum benefit.
Giving Willow fiery weapons and an attack bonus on fiery enemies, I don't think it becomes a Wigfrid clone (for all that is written above): I just believe that finally fire can become, at least for the girl with spiral braids, a concrete alternative to dominate the creatures of the Constant =)
But I don't pretend that my vision of things is the best, I too find it difficult to visualize all the consequences in giving Willow these advantages.
If you have ideas to make the concept more interesting, write them down, I'm very curious! :afro:

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1 minute ago, Zeklo said:

I had a similar idea but more oriented towards equipment in general:

Basically allow Willow to heat-up any weapon (maybe even armor), much-like Shipwrecked Obsidian—this makes it not a craftable so Celestial Portal exploits aren't a problem, and is present throughout the entire game—since it's not a specific item you don't need to drop it for when you get a Dark Sword or alternative.

I don't agree with your view of celestial portal as an exploit.. Is a choice... U wanna farm spiders go webber... U want to craft Catapults go with Winona.. U want helmets... Go with wig... Why do u see this so hermetic? .. I don't get it.. It's about choice.. There are no rules or manual on how you "should" use celestial portal perks... 

As got the group.. She could help with a armie of bernies.. That sounds pretty fun to me

8 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

You could limit this to herself, or allow her to give heated items to other characters, but since they aren't Willow they'll need to come back to her and ask for a recharge. This would then make her bring something useful to a group.

I like this idea.. 

How do you propose the charge would work? In a concrete sense? 

 

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21 minutes ago, minespatch said:

Two things: Re-skin the new Wheeler gun with Pyro's unimplemented flair gun

latest?cb=20140713181946

And then the hearthstones grenade from the Forge.

This also looks like a very nice idea: Pyro's objects seemed interesting. I also find it poetic that Willow picks up his "legacy" :D

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22 minutes ago, minespatch said:

Two things: Re-skin the new Wheeler gun with Pyro's unimplemented flair gun

latest?cb=20140713181946

And then the hearthstones grenade from the Forge.

I like this.. So cool... I don't think all could apply to her but some might work

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19 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

I don't agree with your view of celestial portal as an exploit..

Exploit probably isn't the right word. I just think there should be something compelling me to play a character aside from an item I can just give to a different character.

It's like if you could give Abigail away to other characters. She's a great AoE for farming things like spiders, and one of the reasons I pick Wendy, at the same time I love WX-78's insane HP, and you could be sure I'd play WX-78 instead if I got an Abigail for them.

(Yes I know Wendy also has her sanity perk, this was just an example)

19 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

I like this idea.. 

How do you propose the charge would work? In a concrete sense? 

Dunno really. It could be a passive thing, she just naturally heats stuff up. It could be very much like the Obsidian Tools where you gotta use em a bit for them to charge. Or maybe you gotta "absorb fire", so you have a reason to light things as the pyromaniac you are.

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5 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

Exploit probably isn't the right word. I just think there should be something compelling me to play a character aside from an item I can just give to a different character.

It's like if you could give Abigail away to other characters. She's a great AoE for farming things like spiders, and one of the reasons I pick Wendy, at the same time I love WX-78's insane HP, and you could be sure I'd play WX-78 instead if I got an Abigail for them.

(Yes I know Wendy also has her sanity perk, this was just an example)

Dunno really. It could be a passive thing, she just naturally heats stuff up. It could be very much like the Obsidian Tools where you gotta use em a bit for them to charge. Or maybe you gotta "absorb fire", so you have a reason to light things as the pyromaniac you are.

I agree. dusting off the concept of another user (now I don't remember the nickname, if you recognize he, tell me as well): a character should have different types of abilities: something to help the team (an object) and something to help himself (a passive ability). Moreover, his defects should be mitigated by teamwork, to push you to stay with him and form a team.
Otherwise there is something that does not work very well

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11 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

Exploit probably isn't the right word. I just think there should be something compelling me to play a character aside from an item I can just give to a different character.

It's like if you could give Abigail away to other characters. She's a great AoE for farming things like spiders, and one of the reasons I pick Wendy, at the same time I love WX-78's insane HP, and you could be sure I'd play WX-78 instead if I got an Abigail for them.

(Yes I know Wendy also has her sanity perk, this was just an example)

Dunno really. It could be a passive thing, she just naturally heats stuff up. It could be very much like the Obsidian Tools where you gotta use em a bit for them to charge. Or maybe you gotta "absorb fire", so you have a reason to light things as the pyromaniac you are.

Dude u are pretty much repeating what I said before in OP.. The more u use it the more is charged.. But this is a hard idea to translate to charge weapons to other people.. 

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1 minute ago, FreyaMaluk said:

Dude u are pretty much repeating what I said before in OP.. The more u use it the more is charged.. But this is a hard idea to translate to charge weapons to other people.. 

And that's literally Shipwrecked obsidian, as I said.

Where you and I differ is that my idea is linked to Willow herself, while yours is linked to a separate set of items entirely. All I mean is that Willow is the only one who can charge an item up (spear, battle spear, etc), and then she can give it to someone. They can't charge it anymore, and it will slowly deplete, but they can reap the benefits while it's still heated up. If they need to it heated up again then they need a Willow to do so.

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@Zeklo

@FreyaMaluk

Maybe we should do a survey and ask the community what do think of the loaded objects? I would still retain the +50% damage bonus on burning enemies (to push Willow to use fire weapons in combat. Consider that the bonus is good, but other teammates would have difficulty hitting the enemy, they would suffer fire damage)

 

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Just now, Zeklo said:

And that's literally Shipwrecked obsidian, as I said.

Where you and I differ is that my idea is linked to Willow herself, while yours is linked to a separate set of items entirely. All I mean is that Willow is the only one who can charge an item up (spear, battle spear, etc), and then she can give it to someone. They can't charge it anymore, and it will slowly deplete, but they can reap the benefits while it's still heated up. If they need to it heated up again then they need a Willow to do so.

My question is how do u see this in a practical sense... 

Should Willow attack with said weapon X times to charge it and give it to others? 

Or should Willow use a gem to make it a craftable that only she can do.. And then charge it too? 

In my original proposal I said that a charged weapon deals hp dmg and overheats the user... Should this apply too to other players? 

3 minutes ago, Pop Guy said:

@Zeklo

@FreyaMaluk

Maybe we should do a survey and ask the community what do think of the loaded objects? I would still retain the +50% damage bonus on burning enemies (to push Willow to use fire weapons in combat. Consider that the bonus is good, but other teammates would have difficulty hitting the enemy, they would suffer fire damage)

 

It would be a very general question tbh.. It should be taught specifically to one concrete idea.. Fully concrete idea 

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1 minute ago, FreyaMaluk said:

My question is how do u see this in a practical sense... 

Should Willow attack with said weapon X times to charge it and give it to others? 

Or should Willow use a gem to make it a craftable that only she can do.. And then charge it too? 

In my original proposal I said that a charged weapon deals hp dmg and overheats the user... Should this apply too to other players? 

It makes sense less sense to have her charge it via usage if it'll be shared. Hence why I offered other possibilities.

I think overheating the item is completely fine as long as there's a benefit. If other players don't want to be overheating themselves, then they shouldn't use items that are charged to that extent—they gotta complain to their Willow supplier that they're charging it a bit too much.

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1 minute ago, Zeklo said:

It makes sense less sense to have her charge it via usage if it'll be shared. Hence why I offered other possibilities.

I think overheating the item is completely fine as long as there's a benefit. If other players don't want to be overheating themselves, then they shouldn't use items that are charged to that extent—they gotta complain to their Willow supplier that they're charging it a bit too much.

This what u said about a charge.. 

9 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

And that's literally Shipwrecked obsidian, as I said.

Where you and I differ is that my idea is linked to Willow herself, while yours is linked to a separate set of items entirely. All I mean is that Willow is the only one who can charge an item up (spear, battle spear, etc), and then she can give it to someone. They can't charge it anymore, and it will slowly deplete, but they can reap the benefits while it's still heated up. If they need to it heated up again then they need a Willow to do so.

Again.. Charge how? 

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Just now, FreyaMaluk said:

Again.. Charge how? 

 

29 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

Dunno really.

It could be a passive thing, she just naturally heats stuff up.

It could be very much like the Obsidian Tools where you gotta use em a bit for them to charge.

Or maybe you gotta "absorb fire", so you have a reason to light things as the pyromaniac you are.

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@Zeklo

@FreyaMaluk

Okay, I try to make Zeklo's idea more concrete: Willow has the ability to load the objects she holds in her hand.
You don't need to use them, after a while they charge and can set things on fire. Obviously this is not instantaneous, so Willow can use an object before it becomes "dangerous". You see this trait both as an advantage and a defect.
Advantages:
Every item Willow equips in his hand becomes loaded.
A charged object heats up
Give sanity (only to Willow)
Set fire to the striking thing
Willow can give the instruments loaded to the companions, but after a while these unload. So there is always a need for Willow to have items loaded.
Willow has several advantages in using loaded objects, even in combat:
It is immune to fire
Has + 50% damage against fiery enemies.
Willow however does not have immunity to overheating, only good resistance: she must be careful to use a charged object too long.

Here, this seems to me a good evolution of our idea. I don't think that Willow needs other flaws, having tools that constantly become incandescent can prove to be a fairly significant problem, and compensates for all the advantages they give her.

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