Willow rework Idea

[blacknight7890]

Since all the characters are getting reworked in some way, and willow seems to be next, I'm gonna spitball an idea of mine on how to make her both better and more unique, since that seems to be the goal of the reworks.

 

• Resistant to fire damage Immune to fire.

First is her fire resistance, just make her immune again, the damage it does now is negligible, becoming more annoying than anything, and you really have to try to die to fire as Willow right now, so just make her immune again. plus you can utilize it in winter by burning things in your inventory to get some quick heat without being hurt, that would make you a walking forest fire however so caution is advised. Other players would be warmed by you however so the tactic has its uses.

• Can craft a sweet lighter...

Next, only willow can use the lighter, much like other character specific items, also, make it infinite again. That's really it, she can still craft it and can still cook food with it, but all it really needs IMO is to be infinite again.

• ...and a cuddly bear.

Bernie is fine I guess, maybe a bit expensive, but when willow has a low enough sanity to use it she is already freezing to death. So to indirectly buff Burnie I propose...

• Loses heat when insane Is a pyromaniac.

Finally, her sanity mechanic. The freezing thing is, interesting, I guess, but the way it's handled is dumb, I suggest something much more in line with the whole maniac part of the pyromania. Like Woodie with his wood meter, Willow will have a fire meter, this will drain constantly, and will only raise when she is near enough fire to counter the drain rate. Holdin the lighter or torches will slow it down, but to raise it, you need to be near a bigger source of fire like a campfire or setting something else on fire, like a tree. While the meter is very high, you will passively gain a bit of sanity and she will gain insulation, allowing her to keep warm longer or heat up faster. If the meter fall too far down, then willow's body temperature will begin to drop and she will start losing sanity, both are based on how low it is. There would be some character prompts about her need for fire when it hits certain thresholds so players know whats happening. When it gets near 0 she will begin to take damage from the cold if the world temperature is like autumn's, if it's winter, then she will likely freeze much sooner than that. There is the consequence that in summer you can intentionally keep the meter down to stay cool without trouble, it makes sense that a pyro would have no trouble in summer so let's run with that. the fire meter is much more in line with her character and would be much more interesting to play with than just getting cold when your sanity is low. with sanity no longer being the deciding factor to when you freeze, you can be at high sanity and still cool in summer, thought your sanity will drain quite fast so be careful.

But yeah, that's My idea for the rework, I really want to know what you all think about it, because there isn't enough serious discussion about it honestly.

[Swanky Psammead]

The thing I'm really hoping for in the Willow rework is a mechanic that gives her greater control over fires than the other survivors. Thematically she revolves around fire, but in her current state she doesn't actually use fire more effectively than the others in any way.

Her character concept has always been held back, in all installments of the DS franchise, by the fact that fire is usually more bad than good. Using fire to solve problems too often leads to loss of valuable structures, nonrenewable resources, and/or mob loot. Most playstyles involve an absurd degree of preparation to prevent fires (lightning rods, fling-o-matics, living in the caves) and very infrequent actual use of fires for the players' benefit. There's campfire-tanking Deerclops, there's controlled burns for charcoal, and that's about it. In single player we had firefarms, but those were always cheesy and they don't work in DST.

If Willow could extinguish burning objects/structures with her bare hands for 3hp, in the way that most characters can extinguish smoldering objects for 3hp, that would be a big step in the right direction IMHO. It would also be nice if she had some way to preserve loot from burning mobs, and to significantly extend the timer before valuables finish burning in a large radius so that she and her teammates have more time to extinguish them by hand. I'd like to see a Willow-specific combat style that revolves around stunning groups of enemies with fire while she focuses them down one at a time (fire is a potentially effective crowd control tool, since it causes many mobs to run around in a helpless panic for several seconds, but it can't usually be used safely in its current state since the flaming enemies invariably go on to set valuable things alight)

Joeschmocoolstuff shows off fire-CC in combat pretty effectively here

 

[Thieverpedia]

She died the second she lost her fire immunity imo

[Blu_Ni]

I really love the idea of the 2nd idea. I vainly hope our corporate overlord senpais (Klei) will notice. Anyway, I want to add something to the 2nd idea: there's too much good in her. There's a lot of good things that go with her, so I gotta add something to offset that: a heavy risk for a heavy reward. For as long as she lives, she's in a perpetual risk of freezing except summer.

She lives on heat stones & the winter hat; good luck to Willow mains during summer. When insane, she her flint-&-steel striking capabilities worsen (probs not on this downgrade, maybe when she's wet or something) & it takes twice as much time to start a campfire. This makes GREAT risk for anyone that dares to play as Willow.

As a result, player focus on her body heat & will light everything on fire. Her abilities are: the 2nd idea (where mobs on fire won't burn their drops,  mobs won't spread fires, structures burn much longer, & fires take much longer to spread), AND Willow has the ability to upgrade her weapons. When she fights enemies, she gains charge similar to obsidian tools. Once she gains full charge she uses her lighter on a weapon & mobs get embalmed in flame whenever they're stroked by her spear.

What do you think?

[AileTheAlien]

Most of that would require significant changes to the rest of the fire mechanics in the game, for just one character. If you use existing mechanics, it's a lot more likely Klei would actually use the suggestion.   ; )

Personally, I'd just make her like this:

• immune to fire damage (even when extinguishing smoldering items)
• lose a bit of sanity when extinguishing smoldering things
• lose sanity when not near fire (torches and fire pits reduce this a bit, campfires are better, objects on fire are best)
• maybe gain sanity when objects are on fire around her?
• doesn't freeze from insanity (her imagery and text says she's a pyro, not some kind of endothermic chemical reaction)
• keep Bernie as-is (insanity instead of freezing is a bit of a buff to him, since she doesn't freeze to death while trying to kill insanity ghosts)
• lighter syays as-is

[Trenix]

I disagree in everything you suggested. This is a cooperative game, she should benefit and assist her own teammates and not be used as a tool for griefing. Something I'd like to see is have her increase the duration of a fire significantly more than everyone else, despite using the same fuel source.

[yasir]

If they want to make willow playable again they should really change her lighter,so here's my idea for the lighter

YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO HOLD THE LANTERN WHILE YOU HOLD ANOTHER TOOL IN YOUR HAND,SO THAT YOU CAN CHOP TREES IN THE DARK AND YOU WONT HAVE TO PUT YOUR LANTERN DOWN

but if they give her this buff they should make her only wearable by willow cuz it would be too op.

 

[eternalLocket]

Willow will never have full fire immunity in dst. There's just far too much potential for the character itself to be used for griefing. There's still people now that have problems, and immediately blame willow, with a willow being present. Despite the fact that any character can just as easily set things on fire. Unfortunately, with a fire immune Willow, someone can constantly set a base on fire while others slowing lose hp trying to put it out.

 

I'm not in favor of any infinite item in a multiplayer game. Lucy is nerfed enough to not be a big deal. I can only imagine the lighter might need some changes in order to be infinite. Avoiding the darkness is a big deal. So having an item to avoid it that never deteriorates is kind of a problem. And while I don't really use it, it'd still like the option to be able to use Willow's lighter. One suggest I saw on Steam was to make it refuelable; which I'd be for.

 

Otherwise, the route the devs are already going seems okay. 

[blacknight7890]

On 4/30/2019 at 12:08 AM, eternalLocket said:

Willow will never have full fire immunity in dst. There's just far too much potential for the character itself to be used for griefing. There's still people now that have problems, and immediately blame willow, with a willow being present. Despite the fact that any character can just as easily set things on fire. Unfortunately, with a fire immune Willow, someone can constantly set a base on fire while others slowing lose hp trying to put it out.

 

I'm not in favor of any infinite item in a multiplayer game. Lucy is nerfed enough to not be a big deal. I can only imagine the lighter might need some changes in order to be infinite. Avoiding the darkness is a big deal. So having an item to avoid it that never deteriorates is kind of a problem. And while I don't really use it, it'd still like the option to be able to use Willow's lighter. One suggest I saw on Steam was to make it refuelable; which I'd be for.

 

Otherwise, the route the devs are already going seems okay. 

This post was made before the rework was posted and I didn't know of any other way it could be done at the time. I'm personally for the temp immunity, as it's the best of both, made an edit to clarify in the post. A refuelable lighter would be cool too, personally, I just like it being infinite so its not bested by the lantern, but I would be fine with either.

edit: Nevermind, as of a recent stream, the devs have confirmed full fire immunity is back, so that's, yano, cool I guess.

[eternalLocket]

On 5/2/2019 at 9:45 PM, blacknight7890 said:

This post was made before the rework was posted and I didn't know of any other way it could be done at the time. I'm personally for the temp immunity, as it's the best of both, made an edit to clarify in the post. A refuelable lighter would be cool too, personally, I just like it being infinite so its not bested by the lantern, but I would be fine with either.

edit: Nevermind, as of a recent stream, the devs have confirmed full fire immunity is back, so that's, yano, cool I guess.

Yea, I heard about the immunity thing the other day.

I think a lantern should be better than the lighter. I guess in terms of player specific craftables that other characters can use, the lighter is on the low side of things. If anything, increase how long the lighter lasts. Not anywhere near infinite, but maybe another minute or two. It certainly feels like it could use a bit more "pizzazz."