Starters needs suggestions

[ONINoob]

Hi guys.I have a few question :

1. Is making a  artificial boiler better than the machine?I have 2 nat geyser so i want to get petro not nat gas.

2.I have a cool slush geyser just 10 tiles away from a gold volcano.Should i use it to cool the hot gold?If yes how should i do that? 

[lunazone]

@ONINoob If you end up doing it here's a crude schematic I made that may work

To answer your first question, yes absolutely. The Oil Refinery deletes about half the oil you put in, so keep that in mind.

It'd also help if you made the tiles out of steel

[Saturnus]

It doesn't take much to cool down most gold volcanoes. And most don't really produce any useful amount of heat.

Here's an example build from my current casual low tech game. It's just cooled down by a polluted water loop when active but most of the time it just sits there spitting out 200kg/cycle gold on average when we account for the dormancy as well.

[beowulf2010]

As far as I'm concerned, the only reason to use a petroleum refinery is to trade 50% of the crude oil for deleting heat. 

[0xFADE]

I have heat transfer on one side of my volcanos usually. It reduces the amount of energy needed to cool. As long as you can use that heat somewhere.  My late goal is to get metal from a geyser completely dry. 

[lee1026]

I get how to use volcano heat to turn crude into petrol, but how to cool it so that steel pumps can safely touch it is a bit tricky to me.

 

I built large, multi-stage designs that used gravity to move the hot petrol into a chamber where it can be cooled (I used steam turbine, but the game gives you a lot of options to cool things), and then use gravity to move the "cool" petrol to somewhere where the pumps can actually touch it, but it is actually pretty tricky to do automatically and the building just a lot easier in exchange for a bit of dupe labor and using more crude, and the game gives you a decent amount of crude, especially when you remember that the oil wells exist.

 

With space materials, oil boilers become more practical.

[ONINoob]

10 hours ago, Squeegee said:

@ONINoob If you end up doing it here's a crude schematic I made that may work

To answer your first question, yes absolutely. The Oil Refinery deletes about half the oil you put in, so keep that in mind.

It'd also help if you made the tiles out of steel

what is inside the pipe anyway?

 

10 hours ago, Saturnus said:

It doesn't take much to cool down most gold volcanoes. And most don't really produce any useful amount of heat.

Here's an example build from my current casual low tech game. It's just cooled down by a polluted water loop when active but most of the time it just sits there spitting out 200kg/cycle gold on average when we account for the dormancy as well.

Can you show me the details?

[Gus Smedstad]

20 hours ago, beowulf2010 said:

As far as I'm concerned, the only reason to use a petroleum refinery is to trade 50% of the crude oil for deleting heat. 

There's also the issue of startup time. A refinery building can be built in a few seconds, with no real support apparatus beyond input and output pipes, and eventually some local cooling since it does get hot over time. You get the petrol you want for power generation and other things immediately. A crude oil boiler takes considerable time to build, requires a significant heat source, and takes quite a while to start producing anything.

Efficiency isn't as important as you might think. Not only are the available crude oil reserves huge, there's always 2-3 oil fissures down there for a renewable source. Just two oil wells more than kept up with my petroleum demands for hundreds of cycles even though I was losing 50% of the crude by using a refinery building. Those consume water, but not much, and 60% of it comes back if you burn it in a petroleum generator.

There's also the issue that a crude oil boiler outputs petroleum at 400+C. You need to deal with that somehow. In my case, I set up a counter-flow heat exchanger, which transfered all of that to the incoming oil and greatly decreased the amount of energy needed, but that took up a lot of space and had a really long startup time.

[jlarner]

This is my early/mid game oil boiler.  It's a requires a bit of micro management to get the input quantities right, because it depends a lot on the temperature of the crude oil you're pumping in.  I think it's worth not having to mess around with oil refineries though.

[lee1026]

You are also bottlenecking your petrol production on the demand for refined metal and supply for raw metal, never a happy situation to find yourself in.

 

Also, oil lock those smelters - when you are pushing high temps, getting a sour gas blowout from a mistake is extremely likely.

[ONINoob]

So in a survival game i just need to build a oil refinery? i think that's ok but a oil boiler won't require dupe's operation and delete 50% oil anyway

[Gus Smedstad]

7 hours ago, ONINoob said:

i think that's ok but a oil boiler won't require dupe's operation and delete 50% oil anyway

To reiterate, there’s no question that oil boilers are better than oil refineries, but the effort’s significantly higher. Things can go wrong with an oil boiler build, particularly if you’ve never built one before. Automation can handle many of the possible problems, but it’s common in oxygen not included to discover what can go wrong the hard way.

Unlike, say, the SPOM, I haven’t seen any compact, safe, reliable builds for a boiler. I’d never build exactly what JLarner posted without thermium, because if you don’t cool the output chamber precisely, a steel pump’s going to break. Oh, heck, I’d never build it period because it doesn’t do anything graceful with all the heat from boiling. The most you can hope for is to eliminate it by burning it in a generator immediately.

[ONINoob]

1 hour ago, Gus Smedstad said:

[...]

Ok.Diamond window tile and metal tile,which is better at conducting heat and handling high temperature?

 

[Gus Smedstad]

Diamond window tile.

You can get the answer to questions like this easily yourself. Pause the game, and mark construction for each thing you want to test. Select the ghost image, and click on the "properties" tab. It will list specific heat and thermal conductivity. You can then cancel the build once you've checked the numbers.

I do this all the time when I'm unsure what the best option is.

[ONINoob]

Spoiler

1 minute ago, Gus Smedstad said:

Diamond window tile.

You can get the answer to questions like this easily yourself. Pause the game, and mark construction for each thing you want to test. Select the ghost image, and click on the "properties" tab. It will list specific heat and thermal conductivity. You can then cancel the build once you've checked the numbers.

I do this all the time when I'm unsure what the best option is.

 

I'm still new to this game so i can't do everything myself.I need to learn :v.The first time i go to this forum i was like:"WTH is this even a game?You guys must be freaking scientists"

[Angpaur]

17 minutes ago, Gus Smedstad said:

Diamond window tile.

You can get the answer to questions like this easily yourself. Pause the game, and mark construction for each thing you want to test. Select the ghost image, and click on the "properties" tab. It will list specific heat and thermal conductivity. You can then cancel the build once you've checked the numbers.

I do this all the time when I'm unsure what the best option is.

If such tile is supposed to conduct temperature with gas or liquid then it doesn't matter what is its conductivity. Heat transfer conductivity rate will be based on the lower conductivity of 2 materials. More important is heat capacity of the tile. So for example if you build tile out of obsydian and you want it to interact with petroleum and you build window tile out of diamond, then conductivity rate in both cases still will be 2, but obsidian will transfer heat faster because of its low heat capacity.

I tested it myself recently, so this is not bulls*it, even if it sounds like it 

If you want to transfer heat on some longer distance then you need to use materials with highest conductivity and lowest heat capacity. In my opinion metal tiles made of refined gold are the best for this purpose (unless the heat is greater than 1063C)

[Gus Smedstad]

6 minutes ago, ONINoob said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I'm still new to this game so i can't do everything myself.I need to learn 

I didn't mean to chide you for not looking it up yourself. I was just telling you how you can research this kind of thing in the future so you can get an immediate answer.

[ONINoob]

Spoiler

8 minutes ago, Gus Smedstad said:

I didn't mean to chide you for not looking it up yourself. I was just telling you how you can research this kind of thing in the future so you can get an immediate answer.

 

Ok ty

10 minutes ago, Angpaur said:

If you want to transfer heat on some longer distance then you need to use materials with highest conductivity and lowest heat capacity. In my opinion metal tiles made of refined gold are the best for this purpose (unless the heat is greater than 1063C)

Maybe in those build i saw they use window tile made of diamond for higher overheat temp

[Angpaur]

Just now, ONINoob said:

Maybe in those build i saw they use window tile made of diamond for higher overheat temp

Could be it. Tungsten would be better, but it is not so easily available like diamonds.

[Gus Smedstad]

1 minute ago, Angpaur said:

Heat transfer conductivity rate will be based on the lower conductivity of 2 materials.

This is not true, at least not for normal tiles.

Insulated tiles use the lowest conductivity.

Radiant pipes use the highest conductivity. There's no equivalent for tiles.

Normal tiles use the log mean of the two. This is how heat transfers work in the real world. Log mean = (x - y) / (ln(x) - ln(y)), where X is the larger value. The thermal conductivity of liquids and gasses is calculated as 25x the listed value. Which is weird and arbitrary, I had to look that up to know that.

So, yes, thermal conductivity of tiles matters when you're interacting with a gas or a liquid.

[jlarner]

1 hour ago, Gus Smedstad said:

Unlike, say, the SPOM, I haven’t seen any compact, safe, reliable builds for a boiler. I’d never build exactly what JLarner posted without thermium, because if you don’t cool the output chamber precisely, a steel pump’s going to break. Oh, heck, I’d never build it period because it doesn’t do anything graceful with all the heat from boiling. The most you can hope for is to eliminate it by burning it in a generator immediately.

Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying.  You talked about transferring heat from outgoing petroleum to incoming crude oil, which is exactly what I'm doing.  I'm sure your counterflow arrangement probably does it much more effectively (what temperature is your petroleum when you pump it, if you don't mind me asking?) I was just trying to propose a way to do it much earlier than you suggested, in a much more compact space, and without needing a long startup.  I will freely admit that setting it up can be fiddly, but that's the cost you pay for a quick-to-build efficient solution which requires very few resources.

I'm unsure what to make of your criticism about burning petroleum - what do you usually do with petroleum after it comes out of the refinery?  Burn it in a generator? Feed it into a petroleum press? Petroleum at 230 degrees works fine for either of those.  I guess if you want to store it, or use it for liquid locks, it doesn't work as well, but I find it's fine for what I want to use petroleum at this stage in the game.

[Angpaur]

2 minutes ago, Gus Smedstad said:

This is not true, at least not for normal tiles.

It is true. As I said - I tested it. Maybe you should too?

You can also refer to this post, because you got it all wrong, especially about the log mean.

 

[ONINoob]

Do solar panels create heat?If i put those in vacuum,will they overheat? 

[Angpaur]

4 minutes ago, ONINoob said:

Do solar panels create heat?If i put those in vacuum,will they overheat?

No. But if some hot regolith drop on them, they will break.

[Gus Smedstad]

My output petroleum comes out at 80-90 C, depending on the input temperature of the crude oil. I'm basing it on this video:

The drawback is that it's absolutely freaking huge and expensive. I'd like to see a cheaper, more compact version that I could trust with a reasonable output temperature.

The advantage is that not only does the petroleum come out at pretty much the crude oil input temperature, it's extremely heat efficient. It requires relatively little energy to do the conversion.

Depending on your heat source, the startup time is very, very long, getting the initial pool to convert, before the petroleum starts flowing over the input pipes. It's probably pretty fast if you're using a volcano. I used a thermium aquatuner, and it was very slow.

High-temperature petroleum output means you don't, for example, want to use the resulting fluid in a coolant loop from an AETN for a sleet wheat farm. Petroleum is the second most flexible coolant fluid in the game after super coolant, since it freezes at -57 C and boils at 538 C.

High-temperature fluids will eventually heat up any fluid reservoir not in a vacuum, and they're dumping heat into your oxygen supply. Albeit slowly.