[Game Update] - 288704

[fimmatek]

28 minutes ago, Thalkas said:

Why this thread change name 3 times? ;-;

Because of the hotfixes came out since then. No major change, just bugfixes (I guess).

[lulu_mocha]

6 hours ago, Majestix said:

Well, that's fine. But have these people not heard of testing before rolling out code? This is becoming a bit embarrassing.

If they tested the code then we would not have these problems... being an indie game studio does not excuse this kind of failure.

 

[Lumina]

There are many reasons explaining that a code works fine when tested locally and not when live. You can't assume there were no testing unless of course you have a proof.

Doesn't mean that you have to excuse it, but it's just better to not make assumptions like this, this helps no one and nothing.

[Maxposting]

2 hours ago, lulu_mocha said:

If they tested the code then we would not have these problems... being an indie game studio does not excuse this kind of failure.

 

have a different setup than others - test it - release it expecting no bug - bugs found - people saying 

If they tested the code then we would not have these problems... being an indie game studio does not excuse this kind of failure.

- cry - patch the actual bug after the WWIII of this forum started

[lulu_mocha]

1 hour ago, Lumina said:

There are many reasons explaining that a code works fine when tested locally and not when live. You can't assume there were no testing unless of course you have a proof.

Doesn't mean that you have to excuse it, but it's just better to not make assumptions like this, this helps no one and nothing.

Ok Let's say Klei did test their update before they push it live. They probably did.

Now does this actually help anything? The fact is that they break their own games when they do official updates.

I fail to understand why they would push out an update on a Friday and then expected it to be no bugs. -- and leave it broken -- If it is really that hard to fix it, can't they just reverse the changes until they have the problem fixed? Leaving a multi-player game broken for over 24 hours is just beyond my understanding.

I work in the IT industry and I understand that there will be bugs when you release new updates. It would be godly work if you dont get any bugs!

But you cannot just say that "Oh we tested it locally and it worked! I don't know why it does not work when it was pushed live. But we really tried."  

If you cannot guarantee that your updates will not break anything, do NOT do it on a Friday afternoon. 

Why do people always expect others to be "understanding" when they make a mistake? 

Fix it. 

 

29 minutes ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

have a different setup than others - test it - release it expecting no bug - bugs found - people saying 

If they tested the code then we would not have these problems... being an indie game studio does not excuse this kind of failure.

- cry - patch the actual bug after the WWIII of this forum started

Release it expecting no bug ? lol

You gotta be kidding me, right?

[Lumina]

27 minutes ago, lulu_mocha said:

 

But you cannot just say that "Oh we tested it locally and it worked! I don't know why it does not work when it was pushed live. But we really tried."  

Well, to be honest they didn't said this, it's players that are discussing this. I agree that this isn't a good situation when you have multiple issues in a short amount of time when people couldn't play (and not just bugs that people could avoid or stuff like this, especially when related to new stuff, situation that is more understandable).

About fixing it, there seems to have been updates today so i don't know if the problem is still here but i suppose they are working on fixing it, like you ask.

 

I am personally in this case in the understanding side, but it's both ok and important to express that players being unable to play multiple times in a row isn't something that should happen, and these feedbacks are needed so we avoid this in the future. Should we have got a small beta to ensure that all was working fine ? Is it possible that the fact that the update was so small prevented it ?

It's ok to ask questions about why this happened and ask that efforts are done to avoid this in the future, i just dislike the assumption that nothing is tested or no work is done because they don't seem fair to me. It doesn't mean that all is fine, and there are surely things that should and could be improved.

 

Also, the comment about lack of testing tend to become rude and agressive very quickly, especially when multiple players are expressing it in a way that let other players becoming more and more rude. I saw this happen in situation when other companies made similar mistakes and this could become toxic very quick, which is something i like to avoid.

It's not my purpose to stop people for expressing that something was wrong, but we can do this without assuming that no tests were done or stuff like this. There is no need for this to state that the repetition of problems start to be tiring.

Edited October 6, 2018 by Lumina

[Maxposting]

1 minute ago, Lumina said:

About fixing it, there seems to have been updates today so i don't know if the problem is still here but i suppose they are working on fixing it, like you ask.

 

.like 2 or 4 hours ago there was new update so please stop.

Edited October 6, 2018 by __IvoCZE__

[lulu_mocha]

43 minutes ago, Lumina said:

Well, to be honest they didn't said this, it's players that are discussing this. I agree that this isn't a good situation when you have multiple issues in a short amount of time when people couldn't play (and not just bugs that people could avoid or stuff like this, especially when related to new stuff, situation that is more understandable).

About fixing it, there seems to have been updates today so i don't know if the problem is still here but i suppose they are working on fixing it, like you ask.

 

I am personally in this case in the understanding side, but it's both ok and important to express that players being unable to play multiple times in a row isn't something that should happen, and these feedbacks are needed so we avoid this in the future. Should we have got a small beta to ensure that all was working fine ? Is it possible that the fact that the update was so small prevented it ?

It's ok to ask questions about why this happened and ask that efforts are done to avoid this in the future, i just dislike the assumption that nothing is tested or no work is done because they don't seem fair to me. It doesn't mean that all is fine, and there are surely things that should and could be improved.

 

Also, the comment about lack of testing tend to become rude and agressive very quickly, especially when multiple players are expressing it in a way that let other players becoming more and more rude. I saw this happen in situation when other companies made similar mistakes and this could become toxic very quick, which is something i like to avoid.

It's not my purpose to stop people for expressing that something was wrong, but we can do this without assuming that no tests were done or stuff like this. There is no need for this to state that the repetition of problems start to be tiring.

We really do not know if they are onto fixing it or not, because there is no communication about it. 

And it is not about being "rude" when people point out that they do not test things before they push things live. Since September 27th, so about the past 10 days, how many updates and hot fixes have they done? And the majority of them would just break.. something. It is not like Klei have done it the first time and people just jump on here to flood the forum with their frustration. And this is exactly what happened when The Gorge was around. A lot of dedicated servers were broken by their updates.

When they break the game with almost every update since September 27th, it would be natural that people would start to wonder if they really test their updates before the updates get pushed live.

I do not think anyone is being toxic, and I am the only one being BLUNT about the situation in this whole thread. Well these days it is all about being "Nice and Understanding", so I guess I will be the "bad person" to point certain facts out there.

Nobody wants to take criticism, not even the constructive ones these days.

So here is the "Right" version of how I should have said it:

Dear Klei,

As you know, your recently update has broken DST again, for the.. I don't remember how many-th time. 

It is totally fine tho, I know that you guys have tried so hard, and yet it still broke the game. But, it is totally not your fault. You have tried your best at it, that is all it matters!

You do not have to tell us about whether or not you guys are planning on, or actually trying to fix anything right now.

Actually, please take your time! 

We will be here waiting for your next update, patiently.

If it breaks something again? 

Oh don't worry, we will give you the round of applause for trying your best.

We will be here for you, no matter what. 

Sincerely,

Your Fan Boys and Girls

 

Edited October 6, 2018 by lulu_mocha

[Lumina]

You don't have to rely on hypocrisy to express that you find that there are too many problems recently and too many updates and fixes that cause other problems. You don't have to  say that Klei isn't doing any testing to express this either. This isn't the fact, you don't know the reason why this succession of problem is happening.

So just point the fact. The fact is that a lot of people were unable to play multiple time recently and that we got a lot of fixes causing other issues.

[Zeklo]

36 minutes ago, lulu_mocha said:

Since September 27th, so about the past 10 days, how many updates and hot fixes have they done?

Four within ten days. That's nearly an update every two days. Especially considering most of their resources are probably going into the Hallowed Nights & Forge coming back, that's pretty good.

[lulu_mocha]

20 minutes ago, Lumina said:

You don't have to rely on hypocrisy to express that you find that there are too many problems recently and too many updates and fixes that cause other problems. You don't have to  say that Klei isn't doing any testing to express this either. This isn't the fact, you don't know the reason why this succession of problem is happening.

So just point the fact. The fact is that a lot of people were unable to play multiple time recently and that we got a lot of fixes causing other issues.

your reply totally proves what I said in my last reply.

And if you think what I said in my last post was hypocrisy, that is exactly what you are doing.

"It is ok, they had their excuses."

9 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

Four within ten days. That's nearly an update every two days. Especially considering most of their resources are probably going into the Hallowed Nights & Forge coming back, that's pretty good.

It is pretty good when they don't break dedicated servers. 

[Zeklo]

5 minutes ago, lulu_mocha said:

It is pretty good when they don't break dedicated servers. 

Yes, it's mildly inconvenient to wait a couple hours for a patch to roll out that fixes something that could've potentially been avoided, but at the end of the day it's just a mild inconvenience. Dedicated servers are working like a charm as we speak, and have been for a while now. It's not the end of the world. 

If they took down the Klei servers for maintenance periods and thorough testing would you prefer that? The end result is the same. You won't get to play for an extent of time, but at least it's "professional"?

[zarklord_klei]

also, by complaining about updates, your sending the message to stop improving the game, first your like AHHH where updates, now your like stop updating!

[lulu_mocha]

1 minute ago, Zarklord said:

also, by complaining about updates, your sending the message to stop improving the game, first your like AHHH where updates, now your like stop updating!

When and where in my comments said such things? Do you even understand what I was talking about..?

3 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

Yes, it's mildly inconvenient to wait a couple hours for a patch to roll out that fixes something that could've potentially been avoided, but at the end of the day it's just a mild inconvenience. Dedicated servers are working like a charm as we speak, and have been for a while now. It's not the end of the world. 

If they took down the Klei servers for maintenance periods and thorough testing would you prefer that? The end result is the same. You won't get to play for an extent of time, but at least it's "professional"?

This comment proves that you don't really know how game development works on a commercial level. So..  I apologize if my comments offended any of you fan boys and girls. No point talking about this any more!

[zarklord_klei]

Just now, lulu_mocha said:

When and where in my comments said such things? Do you even understand what I was talking about..?

i wasn't directly talking to you, just people in general.

[Zeklo]

Just now, lulu_mocha said:

This comment proves that you don't really know how game development works on a commercial level. So..  I apologize if my comments offended any of you fan boys and girls. No point talking about this any more!

Have you seriously been backed into a corner so much that you can't even reply to what should be a pretty simply question? Sheesh. At least if you're gonna use an excuse use one that works.

We're talking about an issue that affects our ability to partake in a product. This is very much a consumer discussion, not some random commercial babble you're trying to pull to seem like you have a foot higher than anyone else here.

[Rellimarual]

I’m still trying to figure out how any of this was “hypocrisy”.

[lulu_mocha]

10 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

Have you seriously been backed into a corner so much that you can't even reply to what should be a pretty simply question? Sheesh. At least if you're gonna use an excuse use one that works.

We're talking about an issue that affects our ability to partake in a product. This is very much a consumer discussion, not some random commercial babble you're trying to pull to seem like you have a foot higher than anyone else here.

First I was not backed into a corner. I just don't think that you can see anything from my point of view and clearly you just can't.

Second I was talking about this product from a commercial standard, because as far as I know DST was released as a commercial product.

Third.. I never said I have a foot higher than anyone else in here, but I guess that is what you feel like!

 

[Lumina]

7 minutes ago, Rellimarual said:

I’m still trying to figure out how any of this was “hypocrisy”.

Which part ?

[Zeklo]

Now we've moved onto emojis nice.

9 minutes ago, lulu_mocha said:

First I was not backed into a corner. I just don't think that you can see anything from my point of view and clearly you just can't.

This is the first valid think you've said. No, of course I can't understand where you're coming from because you refuse to explain. I asked a question, and you tried to end the conversation there with false pretense.

9 minutes ago, lulu_mocha said:

Second I was talking about this product from a commercial standard, because as far as I know DST was released as a commercial product.

Not much I can say here. It would be nice if you could expand on this. All I can understand is what you're actually putting forth, not the way you think you're putting things forth.

9 minutes ago, lulu_mocha said:

Third.. I never said I have a foot higher than anyone else in here, but I guess that is what you feel like!

Yes that is quite what I feel like. It's a very common internet debate tactic to put yourself forward as someone more creditable than the discussion taking place thus allowing for a clean exit. The problem is this is extremely overused and rarely works.

Seeing as I'd like to actually have a conversation, I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt that this isn't the case and would like to hear you expand on the second point. Once that's been established a bit better we might actually have a chance at talking to each other, and not at each other.

Edited October 7, 2018 by Zeklo

[lulu_mocha]

33 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

Now we've moved onto emojis nice.

This is the first valid think you've said. No, of course I can't understand where you're coming from because you refuse to explain. I asked a question, and you tried to end the conversation there with false pretense.

Not much I can say here. It would be nice if you could expand on this. All I can understand is what you're actually putting forth, not the way you think you're putting things forth.

Yes that is quite what I feel like. It's a very common internet debate tactic to put yourself forward as someone more creditable than the discussion taking place thus allowing for a clean exit. The problem is this is extremely overused and rarely works.

Seeing as I'd like to actually have a conversation, I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt that this isn't the case and would like to hear you expand on the second point. Once that's been established a bit better we might actually have a chance at talking to each other, and not at each other.

It was never my intention to talk at each other. The thing is that I do not think you have read my lengthy comments earlier regarding this update. It is so easy for people to be defensive because someone said something that they do not like.

And if you read my comments earlier, I just pointed out how this situation could have been handled better in a way by Klei, because they could have ! That was it.

Yes my tone was sarcastic, but this experience has been extremely frustrating for me. 

The problem is not fixed, yet it has been over 24 hours.

And it is not just MY dedicated server which has 5000+ game days that is having this problem. 

There is another dedicated server which has 15000+ game days not showing up in the lobby.

AND a couple of other long term dedicated servers are having the same issue from what I have heard, I am not the only case here.

Check the forum, there are other people still having the same problem after the update today.

Why do they think release an update that might break the game on a Friday is a clever idea... 

Edited October 7, 2018 by lulu_mocha

[MrKoopa]

As someone that has made small simple games I know how hard it is sometimes to solve the bugs.

One possible thing is that they spelled one or more things wrong, perhaps having 2 l instead of 1. This can be hard to find because you might look at the word and not see that there is a spelling error.

Can also be space missing between words.

There can also be a "language problem", using c++ instead of lua or whatever it might be with 1 line of code.

It can also be that they wrote the wrong filename in the code, like "If X then open battle.png" instead of "If X then open fight.png"

(I am aware these might not be actual codes, just wanted to show of it might look like)

One line of code might be above another code when it should be under it.

Might use > instead of <.

Can also be other things, telling the game to open a file and telling the game it is in a certain folder when it is actually in another folder.

There can be tons of problems a developer might get.

 

 

Only because it takes long time for something to be fixed doesn't mean they are not trying to solve the problem or that they are not testing the update before release.

[Rellimarual]

10 hours ago, Lumina said:

Which part ?

This part:

12 hours ago, Lumina said:

You don't have to rely on hypocrisy to express that you find that there are too many problems recently and too many updates and fixes that cause other problems.

I don’t see how he was being hypocritical. I do not think that word means what you think it means.

 

 

[Lumina]

19 minutes ago, Rellimarual said:

I don’t see how he was being hypocritical. I do not think that word means what you think it means.

I was refering to this part :

12 hours ago, lulu_mocha said:

 

So here is the "Right" version of how I should have said it:

Dear Klei,

As you know, your recently update has broken DST again, for the.. I don't remember how many-th time. 

It is totally fine tho, I know that you guys have tried so hard, and yet it still broke the game. But, it is totally not your fault. You have tried your best at it, that is all it matters!

You do not have to tell us about whether or not you guys are planning on, or actually trying to fix anything right now.

Actually, please take your time! 

We will be here waiting for your next update, patiently.

If it breaks something again? 

Oh don't worry, we will give you the round of applause for trying your best.

We will be here for you, no matter what. 

Sincerely,

Your Fan Boys and Girls

For me, this would be hypocrisy (someone saying that all is ok when it's not), and this isn't needed.to discuss the situation. I'm not saying he is hypocritical, but that the hypocrisy he present as the "right" way to discuss the situation isn't needed.

However, english is not my native language : it's totally possible that i used the wrong word, or that my sentence wasn't clear enough (but if hypocrisy isn't the right word for "someone saying that all is ok when it's not" i would like to know the right one).

I hope it's more clear now.

 

[JoeW]

At this point many of these posts are just arguing about arguing. Please keep it on-topic. Thanks.