TheEvilMango Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Hello I've recently came back after a break from the game and I've been messing around with some new ideas. I've got a set up to boil pH2O with an aquatuner and it works great so I decided to add a steam turbine but it doesn't work because the steam isn't hot enough. How do u get steam hot enough without using magma? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/96100-running-a-steam-turbine-with-an-aquatuner/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
neoazureus Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 I use the metal refinery and petroleum as coolant. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/96100-running-a-steam-turbine-with-an-aquatuner/#findComment-1090095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEvilMango Posted October 4, 2018 Author Share Posted October 4, 2018 That got the steam hot enough for the turbine? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/96100-running-a-steam-turbine-with-an-aquatuner/#findComment-1090096 Share on other sites More sharing options...
neoazureus Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Yes, I do a loop with the petroleum, hot petroleum out and heat the steam, and the same petroleum cooled by the steam turbine enter into the refinery Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/96100-running-a-steam-turbine-with-an-aquatuner/#findComment-1090101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathmanican Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Here are several useful posts, with lots of ideas. Spoiler After the update, I'll be writing a "Steam Turbine: Everything you need to know" post, as I love @SamLogan's series and want to add one to it (provided SamLogan doesn't ask me to not copy the naming convention - love those posts.) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/96100-running-a-steam-turbine-with-an-aquatuner/#findComment-1090106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
psusi Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 So this apparently does not work. I set up my steam turbine to run from heat either from the refinery, or also included an aquatuner to help cool the base and pump heat into the turbine. Despite all claims on the forums that the aquatuner does not overheat, it said it was overheating for quite some time, but I figured maybe the bug is that it claims it is overheating but doesn't. Then it actually broke from overheating, stopped cooling water, yet continues to consume power, and a 100 kg pocket of steam appeared in the previously sealed and completely flooded with petroleum room it was in. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/96100-running-a-steam-turbine-with-an-aquatuner/#findComment-1094383 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathmanican Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 The new update fixed the aquatuner overheat bug. It now does break from overheating. If you are on the preview build, this would explain the machine breaking. A steel aquatuner, in the new update, should be sufficient to handle turbine heating. If steam appeared in your aquatuner room, then I'm guessing you are using either PH2O or H2O in your pipes. Any state change will break the pipes. If your pipes are full of petro, and they break in a room full of petro, then that would be worthy of a bug report (with attached save file). The symbol I see on your aquatuner looks like it's on the output pipe (not aquatuner -I could easily be wrong). As such, the machine keeps consuming energy, but can't output because the connected pipe broke. I hope you can get it working. Cheers. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/96100-running-a-steam-turbine-with-an-aquatuner/#findComment-1094392 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 On 4/10/2018 at 6:38 AM, mathmanican said: Here are several useful posts, with lots of ideas. Reveal hidden contents After the update, I'll be writing a "Steam Turbine: Everything you need to know" post, as I love @SamLogan's series and want to add one to it (provided SamLogan doesn't ask me to not copy the naming convention - love those posts.) Given we can now use much better materials, maybe we should stop giving people the incentive to use exploits which will be eventually patched out. It's perfectly doable now to do some kind of contraption using steel. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/96100-running-a-steam-turbine-with-an-aquatuner/#findComment-1094470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wachunga Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 One turbine can delete the heat from 10 steel aquatuners going non-stop running water. 12 is a bit much. Break out the clown costume, the game is going to a silly place with this change. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/96100-running-a-steam-turbine-with-an-aquatuner/#findComment-1094475 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 2 hours ago, wachunga said: One turbine can delete the heat from 10 steel aquatuners going non-stop running water. 12 is a bit much. Break out the clown costume, the game is going to a silly place with this change. The power cost of net 10k kW does make it way less silly and way more reasonable. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/96100-running-a-steam-turbine-with-an-aquatuner/#findComment-1094512 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejams Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 @ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy that example has nothing to do with electrical power and all to do with providing 5,8 MILLION DTU/s of cooling. For comparison, that is equal to almost 500 Wheezeworts. The 2KW of power generated is actually just an icing on top. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/96100-running-a-steam-turbine-with-an-aquatuner/#findComment-1094517 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 27 minutes ago, thejams said: @ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy that example has nothing to do with electrical power and all to do with providing 5,8 MILLION DTU/s of cooling. For comparison, that is equal to almost 500 Wheezeworts. The 2KW of power generated is actually just an icing on top. I know because I did include it in my "net 10k kW". I'm not sure about others, but I don't think I'd be able to generate the power necessary to keep that running. For the cost of 10kW you'd expect it to be impressive. It's not criticism to the design btw. I just think the cost associated with the set up makes it reasonable to have that amount of cooling. That was the point I was trying to make. Also not to forget how much steel you'd need to produce. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/96100-running-a-steam-turbine-with-an-aquatuner/#findComment-1094520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejams Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 I guess one could block all but 1 ports on the Steam generator, use 2 Aquatuners and gain 1000 kDTU/s (1000 KW) of cooling for 0 net power... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/96100-running-a-steam-turbine-with-an-aquatuner/#findComment-1094526 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 1 minute ago, thejams said: I guess one could block all but 1 ports on the Steam generator, use 2 Aquatuners and gain 1000 kDTU/s (1000 KW) of cooling for 0 net power... Yes but that would be using a glitch. I wouldn't depend on it as Klei will eventually patch that out. I do think you can scale it down through cooling petroleum instead, which will make the aqua tuners generate more heat. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/96100-running-a-steam-turbine-with-an-aquatuner/#findComment-1094528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejams Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Aquatuners generate 2,4 times less heat when cooling petroleum due to less specific heat and fixed input/output temperature difference. Using water/polluted water gives more DTU/s of heat transfer per W of power, or you could halve the number of Aquatuners needed by using Super Coolant. Once again, this build is a cooling proof of concept, not for power generation. Even a single Aquatuner -> Sieve loop will generate some 500 kDTU/s of cooling which is enough to cool everything and then some in a manual Crude Oil -> Petroleum loop, which will give almost 5KW of power. So lets make one thing clear and stop there please, by the time you need millions of DTU/s in cooling, generating 10KW of electricity will be trivial, period. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/96100-running-a-steam-turbine-with-an-aquatuner/#findComment-1094565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 27 minutes ago, thejams said: Aquatuners generate 2,4 times less heat when cooling petroleum due to less specific heat and fixed input/output temperature difference. Using water/polluted water gives more DTU/s of heat transfer per W of power, or you could halve the number of Aquatuners needed by using Super Coolant. Once again, this build is a cooling proof of concept, not for power generation. Even a single Aquatuner -> Sieve loop will generate some 500 kDTU/s of cooling which is enough to cool everything and then some in a manual Crude Oil -> Petroleum loop, which will give almost 5KW of power. So lets make one thing clear and stop there please, by the time you need millions of DTU/s in cooling, generating 10KW of electricity will be trivial, period. Oops yes, you are right. Water indeed has the higher heat capacity. Super Coolant would then be the indeed be the highest capacity. I know it's not for power generation. It's for heat removal. And it's clever. It still doesn't take anything away that you'd need a massive amount of extra power to keep it running constantly. I know it's a nice concept, and I'm not criticizing it. I think you got the wrong idea here mate. Wachunga told said the game is going to a silly place with such a contraption, I only said given the power requirements it is actually reasonable. Don't take anymore from that. Yes, I know you can scale it down to a reasonable point. That was not my point. For the record, crude oil to petroleum is equally difficult to do. I honestly wouldn't know to hit the sweet spot of temperature without using a glitch. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/96100-running-a-steam-turbine-with-an-aquatuner/#findComment-1094574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mullematsch Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Can someone confirm that I got this right. So as the liquid which you are cooling in the aquatuner (in the pipe), you want whatever has the highest heat capacity - so currently super coolant. The liquid (coolant) which you are dumping the heat into of the aquatuner does not matter? Sure polluted water is a good choice because of the sieve but it is not better than let's say oil!? I build this in the past, petroleum as the liquid in the pipe and as the coolant, cooled by wheezeworts and was wondering what the best setup would be. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/96100-running-a-steam-turbine-with-an-aquatuner/#findComment-1094577 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, Mullematsch said: Can someone confirm that I got this right. So as the liquid which you are cooling in the aquatuner (in the pipe), you want whatever has the highest heat capacity - so currently super coolant. The liquid (coolant) which you are dumping the heat into of the aquatuner does not matter? Sure polluted water is a good choice because of the sieve but it is not better than let's say oil!? I build this in the past, petroleum as the liquid in the pipe and as the coolant, cooled by wheezeworts and was wondering what the best setup would be. It really depends now on how you want to use your aqua tuner. If you want run it in tandem with the steam turbine, then yes you should use super coolant because that will put the most heat into the aqua tuner and conversively that puts more heat into the liquid or gas it sits in. Ultimately the heat has to go into the steam, so you could choose to do so directly, or add in a few steps like preheating oil. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/96100-running-a-steam-turbine-with-an-aquatuner/#findComment-1094580 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejams Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 51 minutes ago, Mullematsch said: So as the liquid which you are cooling in the aquatuner (in the pipe), you want whatever has the highest heat capacity - so currently super coolant. Yes in order to get the highest efficiency per W. I added the Wheezeworts needed per Aquatuner for reference. 57 minutes ago, Mullematsch said: The liquid (coolant) which you are dumping the heat into of the aquatuner does not matter? Sure polluted water is a good choice because of the sieve but it is not better than let's say oil!? Just bear in mind that a material with lower specific heat will heat up faster. So if you have 2 aquatuners running in identical water and petroleum tanks, for each 1°C of change in the water tank, the petroleum one will heat up almost 2,4°C (it's still the same amount of heat, just the petroleum one holds less per degree of change) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/96100-running-a-steam-turbine-with-an-aquatuner/#findComment-1094604 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathmanican Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 5 hours ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said: Yes but that would be using a glitch. I wouldn't depend on it as Klei will eventually patch that out. 2 hours ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said: I honestly wouldn't know to hit the sweet spot of temperature without using a glitch. On the subject of glitches, some might be patched out, others will probably stay. The key is to know what they are, and either use/abuse them, or know how to avoid them, or mod them out - if possible. I personally would love to see the steam turbine improved, and so I'm paying attention to it quite a bit. Will the ports blocked issue ever be fixed, who knows? Will the chlorine clamp ever get fixed (I doubt it - it's central to the simulation calculations). If they required the hot stuff to actually be steam, instead of a tile or other gas, then that could fix the issue. As long as it looks for something hot below, the chlorine clamp is usable. Microsoft Excel has glitches that are still there (20+ years after they knew it existed, and decided to not change it - too central to the computation engine). For this reason I've heard "Friends don't let friends use Excel to do Statistics." Rounding errors can kill any work you do in Excel, if you don't know they exist. This rounding error issue is the exact same issue that appears in the chlorine clamp. JavaScript suffers from this also, however with JavaScript, if you know the glitch occurs, you can add on extra packages (sounds like mods for this game) to overcome the glitch. Errors that creep in because of rounding issues that are central to how a program is built do not get fixed. A real life example of how we have exploited this bug deals with television. We created digital TV instead of analog TV, by exploiting the rounding errors to get perfect reception. This eliminates the static buzz from old analog TV, and produces constant crystal clear reception. Of course, if you don't know how the stuff works, and you try to broadcast your own station, then you'll screw everyone over (and get a nice fine/visit from the FCC for not applying the exploit correctly). Any "glitches" in ONI that come because of 1 tile mechanics will probably never change, they are too central to the simulation. This includes things like mechanical filters, SPOM setups that separate hydrogen and oxygen in tiny rooms, pressure tricking a steam turbine or natural gas vent, carbon dioxide airlocks, etc. Some of these might get fixed by adjusting how a certain structure deals with mechanics, but some will probably never go away. 9 hours ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said: maybe we should stop giving people the incentive to use exploits which will be eventually patched out. FYI, if you want to remove my signature below (so you don't have to see the 20kW steam turbine picture, then it is possible to hide just my signature. I love it when people put up things they find valuable in their signature - so I decided to do the same. If my signature bugs you, hide it. As for what is a glitch/exploit or bug, that will yet to be seen. Using existing mechanics to achieve a goal is precisely what engineers do for a living, and the steam turbine builds currently in use around the forums definitely use existing mechanics. I love the ridiculous ones (thanks @wachunga for that nice build above), and hope these ridiculous builds inspire the devs to make changes. I'll pull out my clown costume and join ya. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/96100-running-a-steam-turbine-with-an-aquatuner/#findComment-1094647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 For the record the bug doesn't bug me. And those contraptions based on bugs can be really fascinating. People made marvelous things with those. I just wouldn't want people get dissapointed should it be patched out. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/96100-running-a-steam-turbine-with-an-aquatuner/#findComment-1094719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathmanican Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 21 minutes ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said: And those contraptions based on bugs can be really fascinating. People made marvelous things with those. I just wouldn't want people get dissapointed should it be patched out. I completely agree. The Borg Cube (thanks @Saturnus) was a bug that I was VERY HAPPY made it's way out of the game. It was basically impossible to build things without that bug affecting play. Nowadays, the heat clamp (introduced to nerf the liquid tepidizer) causes similar issues to builds that would otherwise work. I hope that one makes its way out next. Cooling 25 aquatuners with one gold amalgam battery is just plain ridiculous. I think I should open a clown costume shop, but I hope it goes out of business. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/96100-running-a-steam-turbine-with-an-aquatuner/#findComment-1094777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
alficles Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 So, I've got a steam generator setup I'm working on (in survival, so it takes a while to perfect). But It looks like the aquatuner tops out at 325 for a steel 'tuner. But it'd be really nice to have an option for building one that hits over 400. Any ideas there? That would allow me to automate petroleum production. (Current map has no volcanoes to speak of, so no magma.) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/96100-running-a-steam-turbine-with-an-aquatuner/#findComment-1095106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathmanican Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 The new rare materials (from other planets - so rare they have 0% chance of getting them) can sustain +500 or more overheat temps. You can get them in debug or sandbox mode. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/96100-running-a-steam-turbine-with-an-aquatuner/#findComment-1095163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
alficles Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Ah, I see. And here I was hoping I could go build a rocket for the super-coolant. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/96100-running-a-steam-turbine-with-an-aquatuner/#findComment-1095218 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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