• Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Community Reputation

298 Excellent

About wachunga

  • Rank

Recent Profile Visitors

The recent visitors block is disabled and is not being shown to other users.

  1. I don't think anyone is saying controlling production is bad. Rather it's an extra step that most people don't care about. The resources involved are so far from scarce as to be practically infinite. You enjoy playing the game in a way that closely matches production to demand, most people only care when something is scarce.
  2. I worded that poorly and made a bunch of edits after the fact. My thought was to not use the bypass pump at all, just have overpressured polluted water if you like overpressure tricks. Or a wide polluted water basin if you don't like overpressure tricks.
  3. Conveniently, polluted water stops offgassing all by itself at 1.8kg gas pressure IIRC. So skip the bypass pump and you don't need to even think about polluted oxygen. My take is that you'll eventually want to get the oxygen into pipes because natural gas diffusion is garbage. Plus normal vents overpressurize at 2kg so again no need to think about that, it just works. Once you are using pipes, you are free to seal the chamber and then you don't care about oxygen pressure there. If you care about overproducing oxygen, then just use a valve to limit the polluted water coming in to match your dupe count. Dupes holding their breath reduces total oxygen consumption, because ONI physics, so you can't balance it perfectly but who cares. The funny thing is that as broken as this seems, electrolyzers are more broken because they make oxygen and power!
  4. Perhaps the best way forward is to ask someone for a mod. I am not a programmer, but from looking at some of the decompiled code it seems like a trivial mod. Some background, the contents of buildings are essentially invisible debris piles and behave no differently than any other debris pile. There are a couple exceptions though. The contents of a metal refinery do not interact with the environment. Looking at the code, this seems a result of a simple flag. First the metal refinery: Storage.StoredItemModifier.Hide, Storage.StoredItemModifier.Preserve, Storage.StoredItemModifier.Insulate, Storage.StoredItemModifier.Seal Compare to the glass forge: Storage.StoredItemModifier.Hide, Storage.StoredItemModifier.Preserve Seems like adding the insulate bit should stop the contents of the glass forge from precooling and breaking pipes. I think seal controls offgassing, once upon a time metal refinerys full of polluted water were a nice way to make oxygen. I never took a look at the code at that time, but it seems a reasonable guess. As for avoiding broken pipes without a mod, it's been talked about a million times. Don't have liquid in the cell that has the contents debris pile. Liquids typically have a much greater conductivity than gases and will cool the contents too much. You can still cool the building by having liquid in any of the other building cells.
  5. Just to add a bit of clarification that probably isn't needed, that erroneous 40kg in the bottom right of the screenshot is precisely 300.4C when it really should be precisely 300.375C. There is no conduction between cells due to the low temperature difference. Resulting temperatures are just a result of liquid flowing from the 80kg cell to the 40kg cell. 10kg of 300C should combine with 30kg of 300.5C to produce 40kg of 300.375C. This is indeed what happens on leftwards flow, but not rightwards.
  6. Also note there is other clamping that sometimes shows up as 1/8. The wiki page on conductivity goes into detail on several of these edge cases. Props to whoever the editor was.
  7. You got it in your earlier post, there is conduction but the liquid cells fall so conduction can never travel up the waterfall. A caveat to this is hot liquid below cold liquid which causes a random averaging in addition to regular conduction. So hot can travel up a waterfall but not cold. Of course in a petroleum boiler you typically don't have hot below cold so it isn't particularly relevant there. Top is starting condition (all are the same 20@400 over 10@300), bottom is after one tick. Conduction is clamped by what would cause a 1/4 of the temperature delta change. So the 10kg liquid raises to 325K with the 20kg dropping to 387.5K. Then fluid flow occurs. Everything is calculated correctly by my math with the understanding that rightwards flow is with the mass that is leftover after a leftwards flow (the rightmost example, 2.5kg goes left and 25% of the remaining 7.5kg goes right and the 20kg falls to combine with the 5.625kg).
  8. Agreed. While there may be some case where high thermal mass in the actual exchanger is useful, I think the opposite is true generally speaking. Typically I run these at low flow rates for better efficiency and so that they can run for hundreds of cycles with any player intervention. If one did want to start and stop the flow, it wouldn't be particularly difficult to setup a bunch of shutoffs to do it automatically. A bit of trial and error would be needed to find the values, but it could be something like 500 g/s for 20 seconds then switch shutoffs to give 1 kg/s for 20 seconds then 2 kg/s and so on.
  9. I've tried a couple times to reproduce it in liquid but haven't been able to so far. @mathmanican, just to grab your attention again. I'm fairly confident that at one point the simulation ran differently under linux than windows (I'm on windows). Back before the official release, cell to cell heat was governed by lowest conductivity, but there was a bug report from someone on linux that showed linux using some kind of average instead. After the release, windows became what it is now, the geometric average. I suspect that's what linux was using. So I wouldn't be too surprised if there are still differences between linux and windows versions, just fyi. Edit: Found the bug report for posterity's sake.
  10. The mass with the debug sample tool is 1.013x the actual value for whatever reason. Seems like the mouseover display rounds temperature to the nearest first decimal with .x5 going up, but I use what sample says whenever I can. That fluid flow bug exist with gases also, but it somehow depends on the order in which I paint the cells. Both flowing right or left can be buggy or correct. Or I may be losing my mind.
  11. You have a more intuitive grasp of liquid flow mechanics so maybe this is an "ah ha!" for you. Top is start condition, bottom is after one tick. Left side behaves properly with 25% of the mass difference (10kg) flowing rightwards with the temperature calculated correctly ((40*300.5+10*300)/50). On right side, the mass flow is correct but temperature for middle cell is not. That middle cell gets 300.4 regardless of what the right cell is (assuming the right cell isn't higher mass). Seems like the middle cell temperature is calculated as if nothing is flowing further rightwards, but mass does end up flowing. After one more tick, that middle cell gets the temperature from 70kg of 300C flowing into 40kg of 300.4C, but again with the correct mass reflecting 70kg flowing into 40kg flowing into 10kg. I used small temperature deltas so conduction would not occur to complicate things. But if you do want to complicate things, my testing suggests that cell to cell conduction is calculated first, then cell to cell liquid flow, then cell to building conduction. I didn't get so far as to see where pipe to piped fluid conduction and piped flow happens. I initially thought the bug was in the interaction of flowing liquids with buildings (pipes in the case of heat exchangers), but looks like it's just liquid flowing rightwards for more than one cell. When that liquid is flowing into hotter liquid, heat is created. When flowing into colder liquid, heat is destroyed.
  12. Yeah the bead version of this is massively better than a zig zag snake design, in every way I can think of. So much so that I misunderstood the question. I don't say this to be a jerk, I did the snake design for a long time. But I tried new things and moved on to something better. The community should as well. For a laugh look at this, so cringe worthy. The wheezewort usage was very clever though, I miss having to do stuff like that.
  13. For the same number of pipe segments both a continuous waterfall and separate beads perform better than a leftwards stair. Rightward stairs are bugged and delete heat.