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About wachunga

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  1. It'll be interesting to see how many people have a rude surprise when their volcano tamers overheat. The question is how often does the bug actually happen in practice. I've seen it occur in videos from the popular people, but is that an isolated incident or a constant event?
  2. Don't forget the ability of dupes to convert water to polluted water. Toilets produce 11.7kg per cycle. Sinks 5kg. Showers 16kg, a bit less if lit. Scrubbing exhalations is 4kg in theory, less than that in reality because dupes don't always breath and co2 can get deleted somewhat. Altogether around 32kg-36kg per cycle, just enough for a dupe's worth of peppernuts. So generators aren't strictly necessary but add some excess capacity for missed showers or whatever. If you do go with petro gens, a boiler makes the oil well -> generator loop water positive.
  3. I started up a new game just to try out this style of boiler. Working well so far with no issues. We'll see how it goes after a few hundred cycles. I think I'll dejankify the piping at some point as I changed my mind partway through and am still pondering a final layout. I also took the opportunity to go old school with diamond on rails for heat control because doors have been done to death and are boring. The rails are also good for transporting heat from an inconvenient source location to a preferred boiler/exchanger location. Attention to detail is certainly necessary but the build is very realistic. Not anything as crazy as I initially thought when @mathmanicantalked about it way back when. Crude is quite cold on Rime so I cooked 600kg coal into refined carbon for the donor cell. Cooking the donor also allows placing a thermo sensor where the refined carbon will be, which is handy. I went with piping flow that advances 10kg in discrete steps as opposed to a continuous 5.01kg (with full pipes). The heat exchanger performs a bit better that way. Partially full pipes of 5.01kg is the best, but is ruled out by the potential of flow stopping from the shutoff at the very end. And speaking of exchangers, with aluminum you have to be careful as the exchanger can get so efficient that the crude is too hot to flake. Need to fiddle some more, including stopping and starting, to see where the sweet spot is. Math says the copper volcano is more than sufficient for the 5kg/s boiling and the turbine will be needed eventually. Or if I turn the boiler off.
  4. Salt water and brine are so similar I see no reason why one should have a minimum output but not the other. If it is intentional, it would be nice for a dev to pop in and say so. Otherwise we are left thinking they haven't been able to find 5 minutes to fix such a trivial bug in 2 years.
  5. The first linked bug has apparently been fixed for the DLC. Which makes me both happy (finally fixed) and sad (no need for my clever solution now). Ahh such is life.
  6. I should have clarified that I meant the offscreen conveyor bug. But you have a good point. For all I know the debris splitting bug fix in the DLC may also fix this bug.
  7. In an effort to avoid this bug, I like to drip solidifying liquids into another liquid. The idea is that when debris is formed, it quickly sinks out of the way and the next drip solidifies in a clean space. However I've noticed odd behavior which I previously attributed to the ineffable will of ONI. In this screenshot, the gold debris exchanges no heat even though it is sitting in much colder crude. In this screenshot, molten copper somehow got underneath the molten lead even though the lead is heavier. This can be problematic as wires or other stuff that ought to be protected by the relatively cool lead bath is now exposed to hot molten copper. I think what is happening is that sometimes the game thinks the debris is one cell higher. Visually the debris has sunk down. But for purposes of heat exchange it's still where it originally formed, the cell above. This explains the first example because there is no cellular medium for the debris to exchange heat with in the above cell. Painting in a solid at that location caused the debris to instantly start exchanging heat as if it was entombed in that solid. In the second example, a newly arriving drip of molten copper forms on top of the lead bath. The game thinks the debris is in that location and erroneously exchanges heat between debris and molten copper. This melts the debris forming molten copper in the "correct" spot (where the debris visually was). The molten lead that was previously in that spot is displaced upwards and the screenshot is the result. All sorts of havoc may happen next. A solution that seems to work is using mesh tiles to force the debris downwards. Apparently this makes the game calculate the position of the debris properly. This reminds me a lot of the conveyor debris bug that eventually got fixed. This seems much more niche however and considering how long it took for the conveyor to be fixed, I doubt this will ever be intentionally addressed. I have seen the occasional report from other people that I now think may have been caused by this. So here's hoping google picks this up for such people in the future.
  8. In the base game last time I checked, a cell of pwater has a 0.1% chance of offgassing 0.1% of it's mass every tick (1/5 second). One cell of 1000kg pwater should average 3kg of poxygen every cycle. Feeding a dupe 1000kcal of mushroom wraps requires 583kcal of fried mushrooms which requires 500kcal of mushrooms which requires 1.56 mushroom plants which requires 6.25kg slime which requires 6.58kg poxygen (regular pufts convert @ 95%). So 2193kg of pwater needs to be sitting around for each dupe. Bottles go faster but I never did the research on them. Note that I believe overpressurizing cells of pwater to increase offgassing no longer works in the DLC.
  9. I feel like if you don't like ranching to begin with, then ranching pufts is the wrong direction to go. Pufts are annoying. You'll also need a way of bottling pwater to get the necessary offgassing rate. Both are doable but could be too much of a hassle depending on your point of view. If you just want a sustainable food solution, I'd go with gristle berry. Water is super abundant. Easy to automate self harvesting so no dupe labor besides cooking is required. Morale isn't great but honestly rooms give you enough morale to get the skills that actually do something. Sorry for not answering your question. I don't have a build since I find pufts way too obnoxious to deal with. Wild farming is another option if you're really set on mushroom wraps. I personally find it degenerate, but it's your choice.
  10. I was screwing around with alternate ways of boiling liquids and I thought I would apply it to this issue to see what happened. Maybe it'll provide some insight. First some background on how I understand things to work so we're on the same page. Contents of buildings behave as debris/ore that are invisible. This includes liquids, bottles are the graphic for liquid in debris form. Debris melts/boils at the material's melting/boiling point and doesn't require the extra 3K that is needed when the solid/liquid comprises a cell. Debris also does not have the 1.5K rebound after phase change. Some buildings are flagged as "sealed" which, AFAICT, prevents the contents from offgassing or changing phase. An interesting quirk occurs with buildings that are not sealed. Liquids that are "transheated", I'll define as above boiling point but below the extra 3K (water @ 374K for example), are stable as a cell or in pipes but will spontaneously boil when placed in an unsealed building. Doing so avoids the 1.5K rebound, which is what I was initially after. Soda fountains are unsealed and the water inside boils when it reaches 372.5K. I wanted to see if boiling water this way triggered the deletion, if so then behavior specific to the vent could be ruled out. Using the equation from a few posts up, I got deletion to occur without a vent. In this configuration of 1000g/s water flow, the deletion is 500g/s or half the flow rate which is what we've seen previously. However, connecting one of the side branches reduces deletion to 250g/s which suggests spreading out the packets from every other to every fourth stops the deletion. Connecting both side branches stops all deletion. I briefly tried adjusting temperatures to restart the deletion with 4 branches but was unable to. Returning to 2 branches restarted the 500g/s deletion. Perhaps alternating flow between multiple vents is an easy way to avoid the bug? And the save for any interested:test.sav
  11. An alternate solution to the startup problem of needing somewhat warm crude is to make a more massive donor tile. Using an insulated tile works but is problematic with the low conductivity. But how about cooking debris into a solid tile? I totally forgot we can do that. 500kg of coal cooked into a refined carbon tile has enough thermal mass to flake 0C crude. Dirt into sand and clay into ceramic work as well but I think coal is the easiest. Only takes 1-2 cycles to heat that amount of coal debris, depending on your method. Placing the debris in steam (convenient if a steam chamber is already part of your design) or a bit of crude are both good and simple enough to be reasonable IMO. Also is the option of saving a natural tile of sufficient mass or using a dispenser to increase the mass of a natural tile. Interestingly it is possible to load a dupe built tile with more mass using a dispenser, but it doesn't survive a reload and seems to require a natural tile above the built tile. Pretty pointless since you could have used the natural tile instead.
  12. I've lost track if there is an official bug report for it. Or where the best explanation is, but this post is probably good enough. The essence is that when something changes state, the resulting material gains or loses 1.5C as a rebound. Boiling loses heat and freezing gains heat. I think of it as a simulated "heat of vaporization" but dunno if that was the intention. The bug is that each cell exchanging heat with the material causes an additional 1.5C loss. If all 4 surrounding cells exchange heat then 6C is lost, which seems like a bug to me. Airflow tiles exchange no heat and avoid the bug. Insulated ceramic within several hundred degrees don't exchange heat either and should also avoid the bug. Apparently I forgot the specifics, insulated ceramic triggers the 1.5C loss even though the heat exchange is so small that the game effectively discards it. So the insulated ceramic tiles aren't helpful with regard to the bug. I might be forgetting something else as I seem to remember using them in that capacity but it's been awhile. I think it's insulated ceramic triggers the additional loss when the material is superheated like in the linked post. But not when conduction from some other source brings it over the boiling point.
  13. This is the style of boiler that I'm currently partial to: The one on the left is probably more forgiving to player sloppiness at startup since it has a well to collect unboiled crude. In my testing, both gracefully survive a loss of heat event during operation and restart just fine. The one on the left has a slightly burpier mass flow with the incoming crude displacing ~130kg of petroleum once every second. This results in a flow down the waterfall that varies between about 1920g to 2080g per cell. The boiler on the right only displaces ~30kg of petroleum, resulting in a tighter variation of about 1990g to 2010g per cell. That said, the greater mass flow variation of the left boiler isn't particularly meaningful. Temperature fluctuations in the crude are almost entirely due to variations in the temperature output of the boiler. Outgoing petroleum varies by about 2.5C which results in crude variation of about 1C. This can be lowered by adding more thermal mass to the boiler or by reducing the heat exchange at the door. There is a bug with doors that creates or deletes heat, I usually avoid this by flanking the door with shift plates. However that results in heat transfer that is much too high. Typically I would advocate not going directly from magma to boiler as a best practice for that reason. But for the sake of continuity with previous tests I went without shift plates and directly from the magma. The insulated and airflow tiles are to avoid a different bug. Save with a stair design for the hell of it. boilers.sav I should add that @nakomaru's point about the boiler being thermally connected to the exchanger is a very good one. It's the biggest and most common issue I've seen relating to petroleum boilers as a whole. Deliberately separating the boiling chamber from the exchanger with a drop that creates droplets instead of beads is highly advised. I didn't do that in this case because I placed the last radiant pipe segment low enough so that waterfall mechanics prevent the heat flow.
  14. @mathmanicanThank you, I see your discussion of the 10C rule now.