• Content count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Community Reputation

134 Excellent

About wachunga

  • Rank
  1. Material travelling on a conveyor that is offscreen does not transfer heat sometimes. This happens when the conveyor is diagonally offscreen to the lower left or upper right. Heat transfers properly when the conveyor is to the upper left, lower right, or directly above/below/left/right. Conveyor Bug.sav
  2. In the same vein as infinite power using batteries but with generators. Multiple "dead" generators will provide power so long as there is a "live" generator. Tested with manual generators and steam turbines, presumably this effects all generator types. Each dead generator seems to provide power as if it was another of the live type. 7 dead steam turbines make an extra 2800W as if they were live manual generators. The report screenshot shows how much more power is being consumed than is being produced. Power Bug.sav
  3. [Game Update] - 322093

    This bug still exists for manual generators, steam turbines, and probably other generator types. Power Bug.sav
  4. You might find this interesting. The 2x2 pump doesn't pull in gas from all tiles of the pump's footprint. The gas in the top right corner first has to diffuse to one of the other tiles before the pump pulls it in. This is what makes pumping so slow. You start at grams and slowly drop into milligrams and micrograms until it's so low that the micrograms diffuse into a rounding error. Mini pumps follow the same rule but their footprint is 2x1 and they can be rotated. With a bit of clever placement, you can make a chamber (including an atmo sensor) where all tiles get pulled into the pumps. It still takes a little bit to go from 200g to 20g for example, but the milligram and microgram stage is eliminated and pumping to vacuum is much faster as a result. The bridges are just to provide room for wrong gases to wait if they can't join the main line, so that the secondary pump doesn't stop. And in honor of the poster formerly know as Rsomethingorother: Klei, fix the bugs in your game. It's shameful if you release it in it's current (or near to) state.
  5. The SHC calculations for the drop add up, the calculations for the stair do not. Obviously there is a bug with the stair. The point of the post was to demonstrate that and muse on a possible reason. I'm not sure why you have a problem with that?
  6. The bias you are seeing is a bug in the temperature calculation in one direction but not the other. The drop configuration doesn't suffer from this bug and was used as a control. A drop going left, right, or zigzag is the same. A stair going right is bugged and presumably that is the reason for the difference between leftwards and rightwards stairs. The SHC calculations add up for a leftward stair and drops of all directions but not for a rightward stair.
  7. Seems like Sim Step (alt-) is what is commonly referred to as tick rate and is 5 per second (5 steps for a packet to advance one pipe segment). Game Step (alt=) seems to be your FPS. On a save getting 80 FPS, I have 16 Game Steps to Sim Step. On a save getting 35 FPS, I have 7 Game Steps to Sim Step. The interesting bit is that it seems that somethings only happen on Sim Steps (or the equivalent number of Game Steps), while other things only happen on Game Steps. Liquid doesn't flow properly if I only advance by Sim Steps for example. I suppose it could be this discrepancy that causes weirdness to arise. Like the terrible heat transfer performance of elbows as @Lifegrowcalls them. See this test for demonstration. Exchanger.sav Leftmost is 8 radiant pipes with 7 insulated elbows. Next is 15 radiant pipes including elbows, performance is better but not by much. Compare to a drop configuration with the equivalent number of radiant pipes. The 8 radiant drop is a bit better than the 8 radiant stair. The 15 radiant drop is much better than the 15 radiant stair however. Something wonky is afoot. Also note that the stair configuration is deleting heat. Doing the SHC math based off the output crude temperatures, the petroleum temperatures for the drop configuration are correct. The petroleum temperatures for the stair configuration are too low. Borg Cube 2.0?
  8. Looks mostly good. For the radiant-tile, the masses should be in grams, so bump those numbers by 1,000. Also a pipe is a building and it's HC gets reduced by 1/5 (because Klei). I briefly retested the tile-tile, pipe-tile, and pipe-contents equations and they are the same except for something with the tile-tile that is wonky. Doing some more tests. Looks like there a x2 multiplier for tile-tile interactions involving thermium, if it's thermium-thermium then it's a x4 multiplier. This includes liquids and gases. Tile-tile seems to be limited to dT/8 which would explain the adjacent metal tile thing even more.
  9. This is what I mean by vertical exchangers with hot above cold. The left is copper pipes with hot petroleum entering at the top and cold crude entering at the bottom. The middle is the same but with gold. The right is copper pipes but with cold crude on top and hot petroleum on bottom. This particular test doesn't show the difference between copper and gold. It does show that hot above cold is better than cold above hot and that vertical is superior to horizontal (offscreen above). Adding shift plates improves things, but the order of performance is the same. Pipe Test 2.sav The problem with doors is that the unified temperature thing Saturnus mentioned only kinda works. When a door closes, 2 tiles phase into existence. It seems those tiles take their temperature from that which is on the "airlock" info box. However from that point on they act as 2 separate adjacent tiles. You can click more than once to get the info box for the tiles underneath the door. They will have different temperatures in a heat transfer situation. The "airlock" info box takes it's temperature from the tile with the automation port. I don't recall if it has been this way forever or changed, it was a bit broken in the QoL1 preview IIRC. Free liquid in direct contact with a pipe works well because there are only 2 steps. Free liquid to the pipe, then pipe to the piped liquid. Everything else has extra steps which slows down the transfer. Thermium works well even with the extra steps because it's OP. Personally I use free liquid to pipe for a crude to petroleum cooker that is the same in principle as what Saturnus posted. It's a bit different in configuration as my goals are a bit different than his. The 30 g/s thing he does to not overcook his petroleum is quite interesting and not something I had thought of. I also use hot steam, but from a copper volcano and with a different way to prevent overcooking.
  10. You did make a trivial typo miscalculation with 4.176 in your math instead of 4.179. But the thing you are missing is that a turbine doesn't have to run 100% and very likely won't. It deletes a truly astounding amount of heat, more heat than you are likely to need deleted. And you don't need aquatuners for every source of heat you want to delete. Rockets, metal refinerys, glass forges, volcanoes all produce high temperature heat that doesn't require an aquatuner to dump into the turbine. But let's say you only want to use aquatuners. You should be looking at the cooling per watt. The numbers of watts needed to run a turbine 100% is irrelevant. A water aquatuner is equivalent to 48.755 wheezeworts. That's 25W to reproduce the cooling of a wheezewort. Or 164W to reproduce an AETN. This would be a great deal if the fixed temperature outputs of sieves and carbon skimmers and oil refinerys didn't exist.
  11. This knowledge comes from many hours of empirical testing. Here's a brief summary. I haven't retested since that post, but I doubt anything has changed. If you happen to do some testing that shows otherwise do say so, I'd hate to be leading people astray. By hot I mean when the pipe is hotter than it's surroundings. By cold I mean when the pipe is colder than it's surroundings. As for the heat rising, use debug to paint a couple tiles of hot hydrogen above cold. Compare it to the same tiles but with cold above hot. The cold above hot should randomly flip positions to make it hot above cold. The end result being that what started as hot above cold maintains a better temperature differential. For completeness, gas tiles horizontally next to each other should randomly average. I just rechecked the heat rising and it's still there. I'm not going to recheck the other stuff because it's rather time consuming. Some test setups demonstrating the SHC bit with relation to pipes. Vent Pipe Test.sav Pipe Test.sav
  12. If you are going to be using free floating gas, build the exchanger vertically with hot on top and cold on bottom. There is a mechanic which simulates heat rising. Hot above cold is much more stable than cold above hot, or hot and cold horizontally next to each other. Your temperature gradient will be better and your exchanger will be better. Last I checked, this mechanic did not exist for free floating liquids. If you are limiting yourself to gold/copper/iron, use iron or copper for the "hot" pipes. Some heat mechanics include a factor of the hotter thing's SHC. This make iron about the same as copper (better for pipe to surroundings, worse for pipe to contents) and both better than gold. This isn't a factor in "cold" pipes so copper or gold are better than iron.
  13. If there isn't enough heat to run the turbine, then the build doesn't run and doesn't cost anything. Say you don't want to delete heat with fixed temp outputs, send it to the turbine instead. Sure the aquatuners cost power, but I'm always drowning in power outside the first 50 cycles or so. In my current game I'm looking for ways to use the aquatuners and I still have surplus power. It's not an issue. You could also dump heat into the top of the build by replacing the top tiles with diamond windows and shift plates. It's somewhat counter productive as you want the output steam to be as cold as possible before it hits the heat exchanger, but I suspect it would work well enough. Try it out with the save I provided. I also put in switches to easily control the aquatuners, turn some off to see what happens. Play with the save, that's why it's there. If nothing else think of it as a research and development project. I acquired knowledge I didn't previously have. I have put that knowledge to good use elsewhere. Plus it's just plain neato watching it run. Here's my current survival game. You can check the reports and see that turbine only runs like 25% of the time because there isn't enough heat to run it full time. Edit: Since some people lack imagination and reading comprehension, here's a version that dumps heat in from the top. It's less efficient for the reason I stated above, but you can stick it under a rocket or something.
  14. Yep, the condensation vacuum is what maintains the pressure differential needed for the turbine to work. At equilibrium, the high pressure just above the turbine is pushing 5 kg/s down either side towards the vacuum. Inside, the high pressure at the liquid vent is pushing 10 kg/s up towards the lower pressure just below the turbine. This creates a perfect counter flow that also plays nice with the rising heat mechanic ONI has. The problem is you need high pressures to naturally move that much steam. Door pumps and conflicting gas have been documented numerous times and aren't very interesting or challenging to me. Figuring out the best way to run the turbine without either has been a fun project. I was forced to learn some things along the way and I'm better off for it. The problem with temperature shift plates is their size. They transfer heat much better but the overall size of the heat exchanger still ends up bigger. I'm not thrilled with the inelegance of all the bridges, but until we get a 1x3 shift plate we're stuck with them. Way back when before shift plates existed, using bridges for this purpose was common. So it's a fun little throwback also. Edit: Anyone new to this idea can read the linked thread for some background. The TLDR is that you use a heat exchanger to pull as much heat out of the output steam as is practical. You then use an aquatuner to provide the little bit of extra cooling to condense the now cold steam into a liquid. The liquid is sent to the other side of the heat exchanger to reclaim all the heat it lost. The better the heat exchanger, the less the aquatuners need to run, and the more power positive the build becomes.