Tobruk Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 I have a base with 14 duplicants, which I consider, looking at all the infrastructure, to be medium/late. I have problems with duplicant staying in one place, but continue running or just standing still and doing nothing at all. Do you encounter similar problems? Is that CPU and duplicants wait for their routes to calculate or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxposting Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 12 minutes ago, Tobruk said: I have a base with 14 duplicants, which I consider, looking at all the infrastructure, to be medium/late. I have problems with duplicant staying in one place, but continue running or just standing still and doing nothing at all. Do you encounter similar problems? Is that CPU and duplicants wait for their routes to calculate or what? They go into idle taskset ( which is like FIND STUFF DO TO RN ) because they cant find anything to do. not a bug or anyhting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Savage NDMF Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Yes, I have seen this problem. Every once in awhile I get a dupe that gets stuck in an animation loop, usually a work task. They just stand there going through the motions for a job but have no tool in their hand and accomplish nothing in particular. If I issue them a move order and they go back to work like nothing happened. Cheers..! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimgaw Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Not idle, they just freeze. Yes I have that too. It happens in small base at sub 50 cycles. Issuing move to command fixes them. Might be something to do with the simulation being suspended when off screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobruk Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 37 minutes ago, Grimgaw said: Not idle, they just freeze. Yes I have that too. It happens in small base at sub 50 cycles. Issuing move to command fixes them. Might be something to do with the simulation being suspended when off screen. The fact that it also affects smaller bases so early in the game is really strange. What are your specs? Do you fall below them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maradyne Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Did have an odd issue where a drowning dupe refused to go up a perfectly accessible ladder through a water path, despite already being underwater. Waited for me to send the colony into emergency mode and dig the blocks above him and build a ladder right above before he'd go anywhere.Though in the same colony all of my narc dupes regularly wait to take their sudden naps until they're underwater or in the carbon dioxide storage area, so maybe they're just spiting me. I think things like this come down to pathing AI being really complicated. AI tells dupe not to go any deeper into water when they're drowning, prioritizes this above available escape routes that require going deeper, even a couple blocks. Similar scenarios for the others. Awaiting tasks in too many places can also make them run around really inefficiently, and end in them mostly being in the center. Illusion of them not doing anything because they're trying to do too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolthulhu Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Yeah, it's caused by AI having a different "game loop" from the rest of the simulation. If the game is overloaded, AIs of dupes and critters get wonky and require more time to act. Dupes may assume invalid animations due to this, I think. I created a bug report for this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melquiades Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 I have seen it happen when 2 dupes go to do the same task, when one of the dupes reaches the destination and starts doing the task, the other dupe just stops and remains doing the running animation in place, until it finds another thing to do. I have seen it very very frequently on my old base, and if you add massive late-game lag on the equation it can be very frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggbert Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 I've seen someone spin around in place looking for a pocket of o2 which appears to disappear and re-appear but maybe that's different behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AggresiveWES Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 yes i also experiment it and it seems more frequent in late game, and you don't get the idle message for it. I have no idea if they stop on their own if i do not move them, all it takes is for me to move them 2 tiles away and they come back to normal, but i just wonder how much they'd keep doing it. Guess il take next time, or hopefully i won't have the chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgel Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 17 hours ago, Coolthulhu said: Yeah, it's caused by AI having a different "game loop" from the rest of the simulation. If the game is overloaded, AIs of dupes and critters get wonky and require more time to act. Dupes may assume invalid animations due to this, I think. What happens is that the planning engine is not able to finish its calculations. Press space, wait a few seconds and see the situation resolve itself. And then happen right after that again. This cannot really be fixed reliably except by waiting for the planning to finish. My guess would be that Klei did not anticipate this problem and will address it when they are feature-complete. It may require a partial re-write of the planning stuff and the game-engine. It gets massively worse when you "lock in" dupes so that they can do only a few things like mining locally. This very much indicates missing optimizations. Optimizations you do as late as possible, because you may have to do them over whenever you add features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolthulhu Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 5 hours ago, Gurgel said: It gets massively worse when you "lock in" dupes so that they can do only a few things like mining locally. This very much indicates missing optimizations. Optimizations you do as late as possible, because you may have to do them over whenever you add features. No, it indicates asynchronicity, which introduces horrible non-deterministic bugs. This means that everyone plays a somewhat different game, depending on how good their hardware is. Players on toasters play on hard mode, because their dupes spend a lot of time not-working. Forcing AI calculations to finish before concluding a frame would be very unlikely to require a significant rewrite of AI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgel Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 2 hours ago, Coolthulhu said: No, it indicates asynchronicity, which introduces horrible non-deterministic bugs. This means that everyone plays a somewhat different game, depending on how good their hardware is. Players on toasters play on hard mode, because their dupes spend a lot of time not-working. Forcing AI calculations to finish before concluding a frame would be very unlikely to require a significant rewrite of AI. It does not. The base-problem indicates missing synchronization, but that this makes it worse indicates missing optimization. Also, whether synchronization requires a planning engine rewrite depends very much on how it is implemented at the moment. It seems to be using a greedy approach and tolerate rarer calculations to run much longer. With that, a major redesign and rewrite may well be needed to make it suitable for synchronization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackblac Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 15 hours ago, Gurgel said: It gets massively worse when you "lock in" dupes so that they can do only a few things like mining locally. This very much indicates missing optimizations. Optimizations you do as late as possible, because you may have to do them over whenever you add features. I saw this locked in feature a few days ago with my 20 dupe 600 cycle base. One of my dupe was locked in an area that had no critters, but kept trying to ranch something for half a second or so. The dupe did this about 5 times, before he decided to do another job in the are she was in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oozinator Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 When dupes do warp (not idle) and FPS drop below 25 ONI fails at temperature changes - growing - harvesting, not only dupes warping, whole data it seems. I reported that a half year ago.. Since critters are added, this is back into the game (when many automation things are used (short timers + 20) it happens quick). I prevent that with killing critters and reducing automation and no big machines building and never take more then 10 dupes.. I think first hotfix was to shrink the map, they could do it again.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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