some geysers just make you want to ask...

[Kabrute]

I started playing with geyser ratios then threw them all out the window watching my iron volc, its supposed to erupt for 23 seconds.  it starts raising in pressure, erupts for like 5 seconds then starts raising in pressure again, then shuts down

[BlueLance]

1 hour ago, Kabrute said:

I started playing with geyser ratios then threw them all out the window watching my iron volc, its supposed to erupt for 23 seconds.  it starts raising in pressure, erupts for like 5 seconds then starts raising in pressure again, then shuts down

Are you playing on triple speed by any chance? Mines do that but I am always on triple speed

[Kabrute]

normal all the way, I don't even boost through the night because that is when I choose to lay out new orders.  Kind of a personal habit thing

[PhailRaptor]

4 hours ago, 0xFADE said:

I've got an opposite problem with my normal cool steam geysers.  They output 12-18kg of steam a second.  Which instantly over pressurizes.  Pretty sure it reduces their actual output by a lot.  So a longer eruption period is much better than more of it in that case.

Yours is putting out steam almost all the time so that 32g/s turns to like 14kg a cycle.

That's not how the math works out.

Eruption rate of 32.4 g/s

Erupting for 235 s out of 290 s -> ~81% uptime

Active for 70.6 cycles out of 124.6 cycles -> ~57% uptime

32.4 * .81 * .57 = 14.959 or 15 g/s adjusted rate for a total of 9 kg/cycle.  That's beyond abysmal, and doesn't even begin to account for the temperature.

[BlueLance]

2 hours ago, Kabrute said:

normal all the way, I don't even boost through the night because that is when I choose to lay out new orders.  Kind of a personal habit thing

Nothing wrong with that! 

Just now, PhailRaptor said:

32.4 * .81 * .57 = 14.959 or 15 g/s adjusted rate for a total of 9 kg/cycle.

So... like 3 seconds worth of steam power if you are super lucky per cycle.... Man, gotta love engineering

[0xFADE]

2 hours ago, PhailRaptor said:

That's not how the math works out.

Eruption rate of 32.4 g/s

Erupting for 235 s out of 290 s -> ~81% uptime

Active for 70.6 cycles out of 124.6 cycles -> ~57% uptime

32.4 * .81 * .57 = 14.959 or 15 g/s adjusted rate for a total of 9 kg/cycle.  That's beyond abysmal, and doesn't even begin to account for the temperature.

Congrats on mathing it the whole way.  The point of the post wasn't all the math I skipped but how bad having the other extreme is.

[BlueLance]

38 minutes ago, 0xFADE said:

Congrats on mathing it the whole way.  The point of the post wasn't all the math I skipped but how bad having the other extreme is.

You can rapidly cool a large output system, but I found using multiple pipes instead of one radiator works best.

[Gurgel]

I have two H2 Geysers, that combined deliver 70g/sec. Not even enough to power one Generator from it. I am just ignoring them as it hardly seems worthwhile to even pump that stuff around. I would say these are almost "decorative" items as they are now.

[0xFADE]

35 minutes ago, BlueLance said:

You can rapidly cool a large output system, but I found using multiple pipes instead of one radiator works best.

Yes I was planning on trying to run pipes to rapid cool as much as possible.  Thanks for the multiple pipes idea too. There is so much mass that needs to be cooled down below steam that it will probably take multiple lines.

[clickrush]

1 hour ago, Gurgel said:

I have two H2 Geysers, that combined deliver 70g/sec. Not even enough to power one Generator from it. I am just ignoring them as it hardly seems worthwhile to even pump that stuff around. I would say these are almost "decorative" items as they are now.

By the same logic you could also not pump any gas around anywhere because it isn't worthwhile. Putting down a pump, a pipe and an atmo sensor is a fixed ressource/building time cost while the H2 vent will run continuously. I'am not saying that it is a great output but it's certainly not useless.

I think overall the geyser outputs are a bit conservative. It often doesn't feel great when finding one, except for the polluted water geysers and volcanoes.

I'am questioning this because it doesn't make the game more challenging or interesting if you have these low outputs. It just slows the game down and hard caps the amount of duplicants you can sustain. And it enables less variety in colony building. If the random geysers had bigger outputs you'd see much more different base types.

The challenge in ONI isn't about long term ressources. It is about trial and error during early-midgame ressource and energy I/O.

A beginner is still in survival mode. Everyone has to do (almost) all the mistakes once or at least predict a negative outcome early enough to decide to fire up a new try.

But at soon as you get past X amounts of cycles a couple of times you 'figured out' the game and it becomes more of a relaxed kind of playground/sandbox where you try to make things in a certain way or nicer or more efficient just because.

Beginners aren't really affected by geysers but rather about their incomplete knowledge and suboptimal execution plus the amount of ressources they find in the starting and neighbouring biomes. They are still figuring out how to build layouts that aren't ending up in clusterfucks and how to dig w/o losing too much time, how to deal with gases and which ressources they need to look for and the general (dynamic) order of things and systems to build. It doesn't matter if you give them a geyser that has a large output. Actually it may even confuse them more, because they don't know what do to with them anyways and make forum threads about how it is impossible to cool down the steam geysers output with wheezeworts.

Geysers and Vents affect advanced players much more who don't really struggle to build well functioning sustainable bases anymore, but want to build different sizes and styles of bases just because it is fun to do. So cranking them up by 2-10 times depending on the ressource won't affect the game negatively but only positively IMO.

[beowulf2010]

2 hours ago, Gurgel said:

I have two H2 Geysers, that combined deliver 70g/sec. Not even enough to power one Generator from it. I am just ignoring them as it hardly seems worthwhile to even pump that stuff around. I would say these are almost "decorative" items as they are now.

For me, it's not that the amount itself is useless, it's that it takes a fairly major investment to cool even 70g/s of 500 degree C hydrogen down to a temperature that won't melt your pumps.

Seriously, almost 5 Wheezeworts to drop 70g/s of Hydrogen from 500C down to 100C just so you can pump it. Oh, and you gotta get it down to 90 just to keep the Wheezeworts alive... 

Give me a 2x2 pump built with refined metals that has a 500 degree melt point (575 using refined gold) that either costs double the wattage (480W) or only moves 25% the volume of basic pumps and I'll actually be ok with the low volume of the 500 degree C gas vent. 

[0xFADE]

If 70gs is hard to cool down imagine a few factors more. It seems like other than metal/lava the hotter they are the less they output.  Gas outputs at least. 

I can imagine many new people quitting out of difficulty if some random geyser they dug up went on to destroy everything with a few kg/s of super hot gas.

[beowulf2010]

24 minutes ago, 0xFADE said:

If 70gs is hard to cool down imagine a few factors more. It seems like other than metal/lava the hotter they are the less they output.  Gas outputs at least. 

I can imagine many new people quitting out of difficulty if some random geyser they dug up went on to destroy everything with a few kg/s of super hot gas.

I wouldn't say it's hard, it's just difficult to justify the time and materials to pre-cool the gas on site just to be able to pump them to your actual cooling/processing areas. 

But, yeah. I'm sure the 500C gas vents have contributed to many a newer player's base heat death. 

[caffeinated21]

Does anyone have a rough number of additional geysers / vents / volcanoes to expect beyond the guaranteed 4? 

[beowulf2010]

2 hours ago, caffeinated21 said:

Does anyone have a rough number of additional geysers / vents / volcanoes to expect beyond the guaranteed 4? 

6 to 8 ignoring oil reservoirs feels about right. I'm sure someone else has the coded real answer. 

[0xFADE]

17 minutes ago, beowulf2010 said:

6 to 8 ignoring oil reservoirs feels about right. I'm sure someone else has the coded real answer. 

Yeah I think it might be 14 total. The 4 normal. 2-4 oil wells and whatever left for hidden. 

Completely circumstantial but I've got 7 hidden and 3 oil wells.

[SlowMaybe]

5 hours ago, caffeinated21 said:

Does anyone have a rough number of additional geysers / vents / volcanoes to expect beyond the guaranteed 4? 

R9MX4 has done a table.

The daily output for buried geyser has a smaller range within the min-max in that table due to a bug.

 

Edit:

I ran through some seeds

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EZ-rKFocD2jm_FtEDiEmuIbORffmjFAq_Rc5UHtxVaA/edit#gid=1013702223

[caffeinated21]

16 hours ago, SlowMaybe said:

R9MX4 has done a table.

The daily output for buried geyser has a smaller range within the min-max in that table due to a bug.

 

Edit:

I ran through some seeds

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EZ-rKFocD2jm_FtEDiEmuIbORffmjFAq_Rc5UHtxVaA/edit#gid=1013702223

You're awesome. This game has a great community