Exosuits and insulation (abysalite vs insulated igneous rock)

[Lilalaunekuh]

Hello guys,

I always go for infinite sustainable base designs, so there is much math involved in keeping production chains, temperature and critter managment running without further interference. But here on this forum are many people doing that "work" so maybe someone already got the numbers for the stuff I need to know, if not I will do my own testing and post some results afterwards.

 

 

1.How much power do exosuit docks consume ?

-Just depending on the amount of replenished oxygen ?

-Some added time for each docking ? (the refill animation keeps playing a bit after suit and dock reached 200kg oxygen)

(Build 100% fail safe automation filtered electrolyzer with nice power overhead, so why build some "spom" when i can run my suits on hot oxygen and support the suit with my power overhead.)

 

 

2.So exosuit docks are using power just a small portion of the cycle, so did someone already build some neat automation to charge maybe 24+ suits with one conductive wire ? (I know, that I could just use a couple power transformer or heavy watt wire)

3.Do abysalite pipes transfer less heat than most insulated pipes ?

 

 

-geometric mean of 0,0001 (=conductivity of abysalite) and 80 (=conductivity of diamond) is 0,0282843

-insulated igneous rock shows 0,0625

So don´t running hot/cold pipe through plastic tiles without the intention to heat/cool is a easy rule.

Or where are the cases you could have benefit (longterm; insulated pipes just buffer a good amount of heat) using some additional mass ?

 

 

[blash365]

1. one smart battery is enough to charge (move enough oxygen from the dock to the suit to be usable again) 6+ exosuit docks (maybe 7, but definitely not 8).

2. no idea

3. afaik abyssalite insulates well enough to use it instead of insulated pipes. The benefit of using insulated pipes made of abysalite should not be measurable in an ordinary game. Not sure how the recent thermal change factors into this though.

[Lilalaunekuh]

1. But how many watt do i need to sustain let´s say 1 dupe (at 100g O2/s) inside his suit. (Dupe got a exosuit dock right next to his bed).

3.

11 minutes ago, blash365 said:

abyssalite insulates well enough

Yeah in normal games i use abysalite pipes and feeling fine, but not sure if my math is right and i should use them over insulated igneous rock (before the changes how heat is conducted, there were cases were the "insulated" modifier wasn´t used for temperature calculation)

[Oozinator]

No way off topic ^^

[Arash70]

3 minutes ago, Oozinator said:

No way off topic ^^

Nah, thats not the real meep

Hadi Choopan is https://www.instagram.com/p/Bi91GSqgOsI take a look

[Guest]

Normal abyssalite pipes no longer are no longer insulated well enough. However, insulated igneous rock rock pipes are as good as the abyssalite pipes were (before they got nerved).

[blash365]

2 hours ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

1. But how many watt do i need to sustain let´s say 1 dupe (at 100g O2/s) inside his suit. (Dupe got a exosuit dock right next to his bed).

Smart battery holds 20 kJ, so about 20/6,5/ <time to charge the suit> kW, i suppose.

[Lilalaunekuh]

1 hour ago, turbonl64 said:

Normal abyssalite pipes no longer are no longer insulated well enough. However, insulated igneous rock rock pipes are as good as the abyssalite pipes were (before they got nerved).

Sure they heat up much faster in the overlay cause they got a lower mass (I like that cause it shows which pipe is cold or hot). But my math suggests thath for most cases normal abysalite should transfer less heat (if we don´t consider phosphorus or plastic) than insulated igneous rock.

But what are these cases where igneous rock would transfer less heat ? (maybe if tempshiftplates are close to pipe ?)

=> Normal abysalite pipes are still better than most insulated pipes (even if the insulated worse than before the changes in conductivity)

 

 

21 minutes ago, blash365 said:

2 hours ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

1. But how many watt do i need to sustain let´s say 1 dupe (at 100g O2/s) inside his suit. (Dupe got a exosuit dock right next to his bed).

Smart battery holds 20 kJ, so about 20/6,5/ <time to charge the suit> kW, i suppose.

That would suggest 3076J power is need to refill 200kg O2.

=> ~1,54 W to sustain 1 dupe (at 100g O2/s) in a ideal case

 

But exosuit docks continue to consume power a small time after the suit is full and most of the time the suit will not be filled with just 1kg packets (most of the time the last packet will be smaller). So we could use some "real world" data to confirm this. (Or find a better estimation)

 

[Guest]

I have different results in my base, where abyssalite pipes transfers more heat (so not heating up themselves, transferring heat!) than the insulated igneous rock pipes. I'm not questioning your math, but probably some code that is wrong in the game. More to the point, I'm questioning the 0.0625 heat conductivity for insulated igneous rock pipes, because I have 0 heat transfer from, for instance, insulated igneous rock liquid pipes pumping around 70°C water. So I think in reality it is much lower than that.

Of course, insulated abyssalite pipes still rule the kingdom. But, it requires a huge more time to dig out enough abyssalite, not to mention you have to be careful to not accidently dig out too much out of an ice biome.

[Lilalaunekuh]

 

 

A small setup to test abysalite pipes vs insulated igneous rock pipes:

-370K Water input

-2 Kg Oxygen at 300K to simulate a "normal" environment

- 69 pipe segments to transfer some heat

-both chambers got exactly the same thermal capacity

 

After 1 cycle:

- chamber 1 (normal abysalite): water leaves 1,6K lower; oxygen temperature not even changed by 0,1 degree

- chamber 2 (insulated igneous rock): water leaves 0,3K lower; oxygen temperature gone up by 0,9 degree.

=> Water looses more energy while traveling through my abysalite pipes, but my oxygen seems better insulated too.

 

(I let it run a bit longer and post again)

[Greep]

43 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

 

- chamber 1 (normal abysalite): water leaves 1,6K lower; oxygen temperature not even changed by 0,1 degree

- chamber 2 (insulated igneous rock): water leaves 0,3K lower; oxygen temperature gone up by 0,9 degree.

 

Wait, so heat just got destroyed in case 1?  Are you sure the test is set up correctly?

[Stoof]

51 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

After 1 cycle:

- chamber 1 (normal abysalite): water leaves 1,6K lower; oxygen temperature not even changed by 0,1 degree

- chamber 2 (insulated igneous rock): water leaves 0,3K lower; oxygen temperature gone up by 0,9 degree.

=> Water looses more energy while traveling through my abysalite pipes, but my oxygen seems better insulated too.

I ran a similar experiment a couple of weeks back. What I concluded is that the liquid would transfer a small amount of heat to the abyssalite pipes but this heat would not be transfered from the pipe to the gas. After 100 cycles when the abyssalite pipe reached near the same temp as the liquid, the liquid would leave the system with less of a temp drop than through the insulated pipes, though there would still be no heat transfer to the gas.

[Lilalaunekuh]

28 minutes ago, Greep said:

Wait, so heat just got destroyed in case 1?  Are you sure the test is set up correctly?

I didn´t show that heat is deleted. Just that the pipes heated up faster in chamber 1 than in chamber 2.

 

17 minutes ago, Stoof said:

I ran a similar experiment a couple of weeks back. What I concluded is that the liquid would transfer a small amount of heat to the abyssalite pipes but this heat would not be transfered from the pipe to the gas. After 100 cycles when the abyssalite pipe reached near the same temp as the liquid, the liquid would leave the system with less of a temp drop than through the insulated pipes, though there would still be no heat transfer to the gas.

Ok got my own longterm results too:

After 20 cycle:

- chamber 1 (normal abysalite): water leaves 0,1K lower; oxygen temperature not even changed by 0,1 degree

- chamber 2 (insulated igneous rock): water leaves 0,2K lower; oxygen temperature gone up by 22,6 degree.

=> After about 20 cycles normal abysalite pipes remove less energy from the water inside

 

[Guest]

 

3 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

I didn´t show that heat is deleted. Just that the pipes heated up faster in chamber 1 than in chamber 2.

 

Ok got my own longterm results too:

After 20 cycle:

- chamber 1 (normal abysalite): water leaves 0,1K lower; oxygen temperature not even changed by 0,1 degree

- chamber 2 (insulated igneous rock): water leaves 0,2K lower; oxygen temperature gone up by 22,6 degree.

=> After about 20 cycles normal abysalite pipes remove less energy from the water inside

 

Ok, I stand corrected then. I didn't run this kind of isolated test (which of course is always better).

Strange though, I have no issues with this kind of heat after 200 cycles. I will make pictures later on to let you guys see the set up.

[Lilalaunekuh]

Still got 0,1K thermal engery loss in the abysalte chamber, but no heating of the oxygen at all (still heating up the pipes). So I would exspect that there is NO temperature transfer between the pipe and the gas (there are some cases where energy transfer is zero if the heat transfer would be to small).

So there should be some pressure at which the oxygen will begin to heat up.

=> But if I place (11) gold tiles inside each chamber the abysalite chamber transfers more heat to the oxygen

 

PS: The abysalite pipes are hotter than the insulated igneous rock pipes and the gold tiles reach a temperature close to the pipe after a short time. So i got 73C gold tiles inside my abysalite chamber and 53C gold tiles inside my igneous rock chamber.

[blash365]

4 hours ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

But exosuit docks continue to consume power a small time after the suit is full and most of the time the suit will not be filled with just 1kg packets (most of the time the last packet will be smaller). So we could use some "real world" data to confirm this. (Or find a better estimation)

In an ideal world the exosuit dock will be filled up to 200kg oxygen by the time your dupe puts it back onto the dock. Allowing quick re-charging of your exosuit.

If the dock is not full, then energy is not the problem, but your oxygen input.

[Lilalaunekuh]

My fault, thought the exosuit dock would consume power while refilling itself.

2 hours ago, blash365 said:

Allowing quick re-charging of your exosuit.

But the question would be how long is this recharge time ? (And power conumption)

So an exosuit tank takes 75Kg not 200Kg O2, making my previous calculation useless^^

[blash365]

It takes just a few seconds. About as long as dupes sleep at night.

[Lilalaunekuh]

Would want something more precise for my build, like "X g O2 each game tick" + "Y ticks animation time" while using 24W each tick (or does it consume 120W every second  even if it runs just 4/5 ticks ?)

 

 

[Lilalaunekuh]

A small setup to test abysalite pipes vs insulated igneous rock pipes:

-370K Water input

-293,15K gold tiles (in all 69 spots)

- 69 pipe segments to transfer some heat

-both chambers got exactly the same thermal capacity

 

After ~0,8 cycle:

(Sidenote Gold tiles in chamber 2 start to heat up faster but just the first ~0,3 degree)

- chamber 1 (normal abysalite): gold tiles gone up by 1 degree; pipes gone up by 5,6 degree

- chamber 2 (insulated igneous rock): gold tiles and insulated pipes gone up by 1 degree

=> So if you run your pipes inside tiles, insulated pipes are FAR better

(after about 20 cycles chamber 1 is more than 25 degree hotter)

 

 

So to explain the difference:

Cell/Building transfers : Multiplication of conductivities in the calculation of transferred heat

 

[BlueLance]

All I can say is that abyssalite tiles definently aint a good insulator in piping anymore, I pump Hydrogen at -160 something (However low an AETN goes) and pump it about 200 tiles away to cool my steam geyser steam, maybe more tiles, and by the time it gets to the geyser its usually around about 6 degrees, so its a massive loss of cooling energy, and I do not even know if it is cooling stuff along the pipe (I dont really want it to)

I need to make insulated tiles and see what it does cuz thats a lot of cooling energy lost

[chemie]

5 hours ago, BlueLance said:

All I can say is that abyssalite tiles definently aint a good insulator in piping anymore, I pump Hydrogen at -160 something (However low an AETN goes) and pump it about 200 tiles away to cool my steam geyser steam, maybe more tiles, and by the time it gets to the geyser its usually around about 6 degrees, so its a massive loss of cooling energy, and I do not even know if it is cooling stuff along the pipe (I dont really want it to)

I need to make insulated tiles and see what it does cuz thats a lot of cooling energy lost

Insulated abyssalite pipe surrounded by insulated abyssalite tiles maybe?

 

I like the radiators; they are almost too good but making all regular pipes radiators too is not the answer.

[BlueLance]

5 minutes ago, chemie said:

Insulated abyssalite pipe surrounded by insulated abyssalite tiles maybe?

 

I like the radiators; they are almost too good but making all regular pipes radiators too is not the answer.

That would be nice, but its a very long shaft and my dupes still need to be able to walk to/from etc.

The new pipes are brilliant, the temperature change is insane!

[Lilalaunekuh]

So what I learned about piping:

If you run your pipes in "normal" air (not through tiles) and use normal abysalite pipes (still no decor malus).

=> You got a PERFECTLY "insulated" pipe (takes just a huge amount of heat till the pipe reachs the temperature of the fluid inside)

 

36 minutes ago, chemie said:

Insulated abyssalite pipe surrounded by insulated abyssalite tiles maybe?

If the calculations are still right and just the conductivity was changed: There should be no real benefit in using insulated abysalite with insulated abysalite pipes. (Multiplication of two really small conductivities and the fact that there is a minimum amount of energy needed to start a heat transfer)

 

 

[chemie]

2 hours ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

So what I learned about piping:

If you run your pipes in "normal" air (not through tiles) and use normal abysalite pipes (still no decor malus).

=> You got a PERFECTLY "insulated" pipe (takes just a huge amount of heat till the pipe reachs the temperature of the fluid inside)

 

If the calculations are still right and just the conductivity was changed: There should be no real benefit in using insulated abysalite with insulated abysalite pipes. (Multiplication of two really small conductivities and the fact that there is a minimum amount of energy needed to start a heat transfer)

 

 

So are you saying pipe in air losses less than pipe in tile?