habuky Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 It feels like asking an absolute noob question - but as nobody else is doing it, I guess I have put my head in the line. How do you seal you rooms airtight? Think about a room (like a greenhouse), where you want to keep the atmosphere pressure more or less constant, don’t want the gases to mix and where you might have several dupes coming in and out regularly. I have tried several approaches but all have some drawbacks. A) Liquid seal Very efficient and reliable. But the +20% stress is quite heavy and disturbs once the expectations raise. Using it with exosuits comes at the cost of either snail-speed or very high job-expectations + high material costs. All big drawbacks IMO. B) Gas-destruction method Works also quite reliable, however if you want to keep the pressure in the sealed room constant this is not an option, as the gas will be destroyed. Additionally I think having observed earlier, that this methods is not reliable if a large group runs through and keeps the doors open for a while. C) CO2-Lock Simply not reliable. D) Vacuum-Airlocks I have no experience with them. Besides being good for thermal isolation I wonder if they reliably separate the gases on both sides without destroying them. Any comments, @Neotuck maybe ? E) Transit Tubes Surely also very efficient and reliable. If set in front of a pneumatic door, it won’t count on the room requirements behind the later. However rather expensive in terms of power and materials. Thus late game only if at all. F) Airlocks + Pump Maybe most straightforward and as far as I can remember also reliable. If two are set in a row it’s reliable even for lager groups (e.g. 20 dupes rushing out in the morning). The power costs are less than in transit tubes and roughly equal to B) where you have to pump constantly new gas in. Am I missing something or are this the options we have at hand? EDIT: new design by @Neotuck + 2 others below. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88849-airthight-rooms-how-to/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 I use F primarily, but I actually have it set so that there is an automation wait terminal in the room, so dupes have to stay inside until the room is a vacuum. and then pump the gasses where they are supposed to go. I use this in conjunction with Exo Suits though so my dupes never suffocate etc. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88849-airthight-rooms-how-to/#findComment-1016897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulwind Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 As far as I know, if you want a 100 percent seal you have to use a water lock or one of the variants. The co2 lock works pretty well depending on which gasses you are separating and pressures. Another thing I've done before is st set up a buffer zone. A hole either above or below the doors, depending on the gasses involved, for gas to settle in with a pump to pull it out so it doesn't start spreading. Not perfect, but ok for non critical zones Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88849-airthight-rooms-how-to/#findComment-1016901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoma_Nosme Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 You can "flip" the co2 Lock and Make a Hydrogen Lock:D Btw. I Think the co2 Lock is treated unfairly. Everyone automates almost Everything. Where is the big Problem to make sure both sides are at the same pressure? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88849-airthight-rooms-how-to/#findComment-1016907 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Airtight mech airlocks will delete air so it depends on whether or not air is in short supply. Personally I prefer the water airlock with exosuits Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88849-airthight-rooms-how-to/#findComment-1016908 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SackMaggie Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Try this super complicate airlock Spoiler Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88849-airthight-rooms-how-to/#findComment-1016909 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 I do have an idea for a new airlock but I'm in school now and it will be a few hours before I can test and post it Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88849-airthight-rooms-how-to/#findComment-1016913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasuha Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 From my experience, variant F is not 100% reliable. If you have substantial traffic through it, gases may pass through. I had chlorine pass through it to my farm and it was not pleasant. The only 100% reliable is tubular access. Waterlock comes right after it (may fail if the used liquid freezes). By the way, the two short ladders in the leftmost design A play no role, duplicants don't use them. But even with that, they pass through it faster than through the V-shaped one in the middle. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88849-airthight-rooms-how-to/#findComment-1016915 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 5 minutes ago, Kasuha said: From my experience, variant F is not 100% reliable. Yeah thats why I use an automation checkpoint so that the air becomes a vacuum first, otherwise like you said it is not 100%, especially under higher pressures Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88849-airthight-rooms-how-to/#findComment-1016918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kroning Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 I had a problem with F-type too at nat gas chamber. Fertilizers can produce a hell high preassure. I had like 50t per tile. So pump can't simply pump it back and nat gas goes outside. Swapped to water lock at the end. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88849-airthight-rooms-how-to/#findComment-1016960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
habuky Posted March 19, 2018 Author Share Posted March 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Kasuha said: From my experience, variant F is not 100% reliable. .... . I had chlorine pass through it to my farm and it was not pleasant. 1 hour ago, BlueLance said: I use F primarily, but I actually have it set so that there is an automation wait terminal in the room, so dupes have to stay inside until the room is a vacuum. ... in conjunction with Exo Suits .... Good to know, that F may fail too! Combining it with automation will work but it will also slow them down massively I guess. Using exosuits in conjunction may then be more efficient with water-locks. And I guess I will go for that then, (exo+water). The downside is: it prevents having all dupes rushing in the farms for harvesting unless one builds again a 100% exosuit base (which takes a bit fun (and pee) out of the game). Looking forward to the new design! Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88849-airthight-rooms-how-to/#findComment-1016961 Share on other sites More sharing options...
blash365 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Could you also add the "costs" in terms of time (i'd imagine F takes alot longer than the others) and discomfort (low oxygen, wet feet, etc.)? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88849-airthight-rooms-how-to/#findComment-1016962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 5 hours ago, habuky said: Looking forward to the new design! It's been posted Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88849-airthight-rooms-how-to/#findComment-1017152 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarquan Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 The reason your CO2 lock isn't working is because you didn't build it quite right. The steps in my image have to be there or else high pressures can break it. If you build it like in my pictures, you can hold back 47000 kg of oxygen from entering the 0.01 kg area of H2 with a mere 1 gram of CO2 per tile. The first 3 pictures are old, but I build CO2 locks in all my bases and I have not yet had one fail. The only weakness is things that emit gas, like slime or flatulent dupes or bleach stone. I find better results if you have a higher lip on the lock (last picture of this set, from ranching preview). It can leak CO2 if the pressure in the lock is higher than the pressure outside and can not be used to create a vacuum, but it will keep the icky gases out of your base or contained in your base. Spoiler Also, there is another kind of water lock that you missed. I call it a corner waterlock. It has advantages over the standard waterlock, as you can use a very small amount of water and dupes who enter only get soggy feet (rather than sopping wet). The first 2 pictures are also old, but they haven't changed since. The lip is essential for this lock to work, as you need to trap a tile of CO2 in the lock. If you don't, a breathing can break the lock. With the CO2 there, it won't break to normal dupes, but it can break to gas emitters (bleach stone, flatulent dupes, etc). This style can also let you create a perfect vacuum seal (last picture, from ranching preview). If you use crude oil or petroleum, you can separate temperatures up to around 500 C. The weirdest thing about this lock, is that is only works in the orientation that I am showing you in the pictures. If you try to go down and to the right, it doesn't work. But if you go down and to the left, it works fine. Spoiler Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88849-airthight-rooms-how-to/#findComment-1017215 Share on other sites More sharing options...
habuky Posted March 20, 2018 Author Share Posted March 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Zarquan said: . The steps in my image have to be there or else high pressures can break it CO2: With your "steps", you mean the shape right? Or does also the amount of CO2 matter? Could you also separate CO2 and any other gas using this method? 2 hours ago, Zarquan said: The weirdest thing about this lock, is that is only works in the orientation that I am showing you in the pictures. H2O: I guess you mixed up left and right... Did you had any fail with that lock? I looks pretty nice but gives you a weird limit on your base architecture. However thanks, I will try that. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88849-airthight-rooms-how-to/#findComment-1017267 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarquan Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 35 minutes ago, habuky said: CO2: With your "steps", you mean the shape right? Or does also the amount of CO2 matter? Yes, it's the shape. The CO2 whole should make a T shape. As far as I can tell, it works with as little as 1 gram of CO2 per tile. 35 minutes ago, habuky said: Could you also separate CO2 and any other gas using this method? Yup! I separate my O2 from my chlorine. my hydrogen from my polluted oxygen, and (pre ranching) I contained my natural gas geysers with it. You will find one of these at any exit from my base because they do not cause stress and they are fairly easy to build. With the higher outer wall, they only leak when the pressure outside is less than the pressure inside. 35 minutes ago, habuky said: H2O: I guess you mixed up left and right... Did you had any fail with that lock? I looks pretty nice but gives you a weird limit on your base architecture. However thanks, I will try that. If constructed properly, they seem to last forever, unless the water boils or something. If constructed improperly, they fail pretty quickly depending on the foot traffic. The key is only building it in that orientation and ensuring your dupes can't breathe in it. They also seemed to fail intermittently around natural gas geysers. I still don't know why and I stopped looking in to it once I discovered CO2 locks. It might just have been my setup. I use these when I need a thermal seal or want to dig in to a vacuum. CO2 locks don't thermally seal anything and can't make a vacuum. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88849-airthight-rooms-how-to/#findComment-1017270 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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