more ways to get rid of heat?

[mr peeps]

Right. So. I kinda want this to become a thread of ideas, unless others think it is bad. Annnnnyways. I believe that getting heat is waaaaaaaaay easier than losing it. Ik that's kinda the point, but it gets out of hand. Eventually, if you don't have an ice biome right next to you, then late game your screwed. you could, perhaps, make the gas-cooler-thing cost a *little* less than 1.2 KW!?!?!? Anyways. Ideas time. 

-wheezewort buff?

-space cooler thing (would cost no power, just ice or something along those lines)

-HYDROFAN BUFF IT IS WORTHLESS (i think anyways)

-maybe, kind of an out-there idea, but what if, on bigger machines, you could put like, upgrades on them. Perhaps one could be a heat sink to lower the heat generation

 

one last thing, doesn't relate to the main topic, just something to throw out there; I think portable generators should be a thing. they wouldn't produce anything near sustainable, and would maybe cost a lot to maintain, but it would have enough to maybe power oxygen in a far-out place so you don't have to waste tons of metal going to said place.

anyways, tell me what you peeps think, maybe some of your own suggestions. 

[Ciderblock]

You have the following ways to remove heat:

Wheezeworts

Entropy Nullifiers

Drip bug (adding cool liquid to hot liquid cools the hot liquid dramatically more than thermal energy balance would indicate)

Machine non-conservation of energy (using hot water in a lavatory, shower, electrolyzer, etc. does not increase the temperature of the product)

You have the following ways to move heat:

Thermoregulators

Aquatuners

Passive gradients (e.g. moving heat into ice biomes by diffusion, using cold hydrogen atmosphere to cool thermoregulators, etc.)

 

The solution that doesn't depend on the drip bug or machine non-conservation of energy is to insulate yourself from large sources of thermal energy like the hot biome and geyser water, then use gold amalgam thermoregulators surrounded by wheezeworts in hydrogen atmosphere to supply air to your base. The maximum thermal flux that this can cancel out is not really all that much. If you have to deal with more than that, you'll need to use one of those two tricks.

[Kasuha]

Back when the heat was not fully implemented in the game, I thought devs will go some more physics-based way. Such as like there's hot magma at the bottom, there would be impenetrable but very cold material at the top of the map. Or even reachable surface with outside vacuum and possibility to build heat radiators that would radiate the heat into the void. So the player would have to build necessary infrastructure to get hot things cooled there. But now the game is at very different place, the cooling options are very sufficient (once you get to know them) and adding something like that would make it a very different game.

[ImpalerWrG]

I think the elimination of all the non-conservation flaws in buildings (lavatory, shower, electrolyzer, sieve etc) needs to happen first.  As well as things like the drip bug being fixed.  Once these are squared away we can have a better idea of what the real heat situation is and how much help the player needs in handling it.  Currently their is too much reliance on these flaws/bugs to really have an accurate view of heat management.

[Player 2]

i have an idea.

take in the scalding gass, send it through a thermoregulator sync with wheezewarts and pump it back in, each thermoregulator removes fourteen degrees and cost a lot of energy so plan ahead for the heatsync

9 hours ago, mr peeps said:

make the gas-cooler-thing cost a *little* less than 1.2 KW!?!?!? Anyways. Ideas time. 

a easy way to generate this power is

1: elecrolizers

2: "hamsters"

3: coal or steam generation, same for petroleum, so be ready to spend energy, resources and more

[mr peeps]

I'm sure all of these are good ideas, but I believe the general tools for removing/adding heat should be the same, without having to make fancy-shmancy contraptions. For instance, the space heater. One could say a wheeze-wort is like that, though they are non-renewable and their arent that many in the world. then there are all the machines that remove heat from liquid/gas. This would be fine, and I understand that they must produce heat, as that only makes sense, but, for instance, the thermo-aquatuner produces roughly 58 WATTS OF HEAT!?!?! that, I believe, far outdoes its effect.

 

PS I do understand that heat needs to kinda... you know, be an issue for difficulties sake, though I still believe it needs to be a bit more... possible... for one that doesn't have an ice biome next door.

[Ciderblock]

The ice biome is a temporary stopgap (and there is pretty much never an ice biome next to the sandstone biome anymore). The permanent exploit-free solution does not require any fancy machinery: wheezeworts, thermoregulators, hydrogen for the wheezeworts to operate in, plus keeping the amount of heat you are trying to dissipate as small as possible. The only problem with it is that such a system will only cool a relatively minimalist base, and will also draw quite a bit of power.

AFAIK both thermoregulators and thermo aquatuners do not net-produce or net-consume heat, they simply move it from the pipe contents to themselves. This is exactly how cooling works IRL: the heat is just moved to somewhere else against its gradient. So they need to be cooled themselves. The advantage of them is that they let you put all the heat in one place so that it can be removed more efficiently.

[Master Miner]

Thermal / environment management is a key aspect in the game, it has to be challenging.

It is actually (too) easy to prevent the base from overheating.
There is absolutely no need to use any bugs / exploits.
8 wheezworts in high pressure hydrogen are more than enough for a medium-sized base
(e.g. 4 for cooling oxygen and 4 for the machinery - mainly power generators, batteries and transformers).

- put warmer stuff outside and above the base or at the top of the base
- cool oxygen coming from electrolysers with wheezworts in hydrogen
- use abyssalite pipes for liquids and gases over 25°C
- build insulating walls around the base to prevent heat from creeping in
- be careful with very warm and hot biomes

Later in the game:
- use polluted water to cool machinery, including thermo regulators
- cool natural gas generators with wheezworts in hydrogen to get cold polluted water and cold CO2
- use machinery / solutions that produce less heat (e.g. smart battery vs. normal battery, cool refrigerators with wheezworts, ...)
- move heat towards stuff that needs heating - that's polluted water above all
- check for faults in abyssalite barriers and fix them

[mr peeps]

17 hours ago, Master Miner said:

- cool oxygen coming from electrolysers with wheezworts in hydrogen
- use abyssalite pipes for liquids and gases over 25°C
- build insulating walls around the base to prevent heat from creeping in

3

See, I tried the wheeze-wort-hydrogen thing in my own play during the beginning, but it didn't work, like, at all. I think there just isn't enough of them.

With the new update, abyssalite is annoyingly difficult to get mass amounts of

And finally, the insulated walls would be fine, but in my opinion, they cost too much in large amounts; at most just a few rooms

 

Also, I completely understand that heat is supposed to be an issue in the game that you need to solve, but in my opinion, I think there needs to be some kind of space-heater equivalent, that maybe costs some kind of material and isn't as worthless as the hydrofan.

[Master Miner]

6 hours ago, mr peeps said:

I tried the wheeze-wort-hydrogen thing in my own play during the beginning, but it didn't work, like, at all. I think there just isn't enough of them.

Put them in high pressure hydrogen, 20kg/cell. 8 is then enough for a medium sized base. Cool water with polluted water and then with aquatuner in polluted water.

[Alfons100]

Nah, you are stuck in an asteroid, normally you could just radiate all of it into space, but not here!

I agree with the Hydrofan buff, it is frigging useless. The efficiency should scale with the Tinkering skill, so having a master engineer use it would be great, there's not enough structures that scales with Tinkering skill.

[KaneCold]

Hmm since the Update where we got Slime-lunge and Food-poising, i tried to find a way to generate enough heat to boil Polluted Water until the point where you get Steam/clean water.

With the Aqua-tuner it is relative easy to make a simple setup that produces 10kg clean water every 3-7 second (it's up to how much Heat energy you have at hand). Funny enough when I set it up, the system was producing steam ... but also destroyed ridiculous amounts of heat. And well since then I have to find out how buggy the game is right now ... day after day after day ...

First of all ... the simple conversion of Polluted Water to Steam / Dirt alone destroys roughly 1/3 of the stored heat inside the PW ... this is because PW can store 6 J per g per °K ... and Water only 4,179 J per g per °K ... and the dirt you get doesn't even come close to the point where it would match the missing energy. Just to add this: even 1g of water plus 1g of dirt could only store 5,659 J per °K. This means even with double the mass it's less energy ... and you can guess that you can't get 1g dirt and 1g water from 1g polluted water. (@Kleientertainment ... if someone of you reads this ... could you reduce the Energy Capacity of Polluted Water pls? Would make it easier to boil too)

Not so long ago I learned that the game already has a problem with liquids (gases too?) when small volumes mix with big volumes ... like when you use an Liquid Vent to fill an tank. The heat energy of the small amount is counted like a full tile, which means 10 kg Water at °25 cools like it would be 1000 kg ... don't call me cheap but you can't get it for a better price right now.

ADD:
*Actually did somebody already tried out to make a high pressure tank (5kg per tile or more) and then mix in drops of small cool liquid? would this even increase the effect, or does it need to be the dripping animation like from the liquid vent or when it runs over an edge?*

And while we talk about "Vacuum" and "Heat vents" and "into space". Did somebody ever build an (Gas)Pipe-Bubble system as wanky as your guts? so with corners and turns left and right and up down, back don't care ... just corners. For what ever reason there are cases where a Pipe element can't get it straight what Heat transfer there should be ... some tiles tend to add unlimited energy to the Gas flowing through ... some tend to reduce the heat until something breaks - this even happens when the whole system stands still and no Gas is flowing. To be fair right now i think this is the only way to generate enough heat to run Steam turbines without magma ... but only when somebody finds out how to recreate it.

Also talking about Destroying things ... when you dig you only get halve the mass of the tile you dug out ... and so also halve the Heat is left. At the start of the game only dig out things that are hot (so Caustic Biome where you find chlorine) and leave cold biomes alone (like the starting area, especially ice bioms - just open them) if you play long enough and with so many Dubs that you end the game because of heat death and not boredom you're a real fan of this game.

Oh yeah btw ... about my starting point ... so making water clean and kill all the nasty germs in it ... for this i go the different route now and use "cold" to make Oxygen from Polluted oxygen because it destroys less heat energy or I just use pressure to kill germs inside of a body of water.

ADD:
*Actually i see right now that polluted Ice has an Heat Capacity of 3,05 J per g per °K ... this means if you freeze Polluted Water you destroy halve the heat energy that is stored ... sure it's at -20,6°C or 252,5°K so it's not on the same level as when you boil it at 122°C or around 392°K. Still if you boil it one side and use frozen PW to cool down the steam ... should add up a lot ... well better said delete a lot.

But wait ... when Polluted Ice melts it should generate heat by doubling the capacity ... and then you move it to the aqua-tuner ... this sounds broken as hell.*