Occupational Upgrade Running out of Dirt

[Entrails]

I estimate that I'm going to be out of dirt by cycle 150 and then will die of starvation. Kind of disappointing as I was having fun in this game testing the preview branch. Am I missing something? Is there some way to make more dirt? I read that you can put fertilizer near magma and let it cook but that seems....impractical?

I know there's been some feedback submitted on this branch that the dirt consumption is unreasonable. Any idea if there is some tuning coming?

Thanks

 

[Bubby4940]

If you have plenty power you could boil polluted water for a little bit of dirt and then use the clean water on bristle berries

[SkunkMaster]

Iirc you can also "boil" fertilizer ? 

[Bubby4940]

 Then use a aquatuner to cool your converted water

1 minute ago, SkunkMaster said:

Iirc you can also "boil" fertilizer ? 

 yes you could boil fertilizer too

[Oozinator]

When you have bad luck with starter biome, it could happen..

[Bubby4940]

1 minute ago, Oozinator said:

When you have bad luck with starter biome, it could happen..

 yep very true

[Ayka]

I think this was pretty much the idea behind the upgrade, to force people NOT to be using Dirt for Food by Cycle 100+.

The real solution here is to get off Mush Bars/Mealwood; and onto more sustainable food sources such as Mushrooms and Sleet Wheat.

Gone are the days you can simply forget about food, and that is a good thing, you'll grow as a player.

 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Ayka said:

I think this was pretty much the idea behind the upgrade, to force people NOT to be using Dirt for Food by Cycle 100+.

The real solution here is to get off Mush Bars/Mealwood; and onto more sustainable food sources such as Mushrooms and Sleet Wheat.

Gone are the days you can simply forget about food, and that is a good thing, you'll grow as a player.

 

I wouldn't call mushrooms more sustainable than mealwood. You can create dirt from fertilizer, in bigger packets than slime.

Sleet wheat is sustainable if you are able to cover the massive cooling costs. I think bristle berries are the most sustainable plants.

[Kasuha]

1 hour ago, turbonl64 said:

I wouldn't call mushrooms more sustainable than mealwood. You can create dirt from fertilizer, in bigger packets than slime.

You need 50 kg of dirt to get 1000 kcal of mealwood. You need 12.5 kg of slime to get 1000 kcal of mushroom.

 

Edit: I did the math.

Dirt/Mealwood cycle: 1000 g of water + 52 g of natural gas -> 20 kcal + 1793 J of power

Slime/Mushroom cycle: 1000 g of water + 218 g of natural gas -> 100 kcal + 2789 J of power

 

It's not clear cut but I would say Mushrooms are more sustainable.

[Nativel]

It's because you use dirt as a source of food and for cycle 50 you have to already use at least mushrooms instead of lice loafs/meal lice/ mush bars or mush fry.

Omg cycle 150? I was thinking you was on 50, so it's even wrost.

[Entrails]

I think I've just had a big misunderstanding here. I thought that all crops used dirt, and now it appears I wasn't paying enough attention. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

I'm running about half mealwood, half bristle blossom/mushrooms. So what I'm hearing now is that I need to convert everything over. Thanks

[blash365]

Even though you guys might be right, that there should be some progression in food, it still feels a bit odd, that mealwood is basically useless once you run out of dirt.

 

It should at least be possible to cover at least a minority of your food requirements with any crop of your choosing. Can anybody tell us how many mealwood plants can be sustained by 1 puft / 1 compost / 1 dupe with normal latrine usage?

[Entrails]

I feel like there should be some way to convert polluted dirt into dirt. Is there? 

[Nativel]

1 minute ago, blash365 said:

It should at least be possible to cover at least a minority of your food requirements with any crop of your choosing. Can anybody tell us how many mealwood plants can be sustained by 1 puft / 1 compost / 1 dupe with normal latrine usage?

you mean dusk cap?, mealwood need dirt, with is possible to gain only by boiling poluted water with is pointless at that stage of the game. if you mean dusk cap then compost is pointless they need slime, puft need poluted oxygen to produce slime and latrine give you poluted water with is give you poluted oxygen and all depends on poluted water surface area, insted of that you have to overload outhose and do not clean it untill morbs apier for puloted oxygen and slime after pufts. How many do you need? Morbs will spawn continuesly so you can just deconstruct outhose when you gain more slime than you can spent.

C'mon it's all pointless, just mineout large area of slime and it will be enought for 10 colonists for 500 cycles on mushrooms after all in 500 cycles with is more than enought to start farming sleet wheat.

8 minutes ago, Entrails said:

I feel like there should be some way to convert polluted dirt into dirt. Is there?

If I'll tell you will you not do that please?

{START} Poluted dirt will produce poluted oxygen.

{STEP1} Puloted oxygen should be converted into slime by puft,

{STEP2} Slime should be converted by Algie distiller into poluted water.

{STEP3} Boil the poluted water and you will gain dirt.

Do not do that please.

[Kabrute]

[Kabrute]

can convert pdirt to fertilizer with composter, cook fertilizer in pwater steamer it will make dirt. I just put compactors in water steamer and leave them there till it flips, they are the cold water condensors

[Nativel]

hahaha

[blash365]

9 hours ago, Nativel said:

you mean dusk cap?, mealwood need dirt, with is possible to gain only by boiling poluted water with is pointless at that stage of the game.

I meant mealwood.

I would like to see the numbers before i decide for it to be pointless. I am sure somebody has calculated it already, so let's see them.

 

• How many kg of pWater (by boiling it to dirt) do i need ...
• How many kg of fertizer do i need to burn ...
• How many Pufts do i need (which produce slime, which i can turn to pWater and slime, which i can then burn to dirt (both?)) ...

to fertilize 1 mealwood until it is fully grown (under perfect greenhouse conditions)?

Also how much energy would the boiling process need?

[Nativel]

Just now, blash365 said:

How many kg of pWater (by boiling it to dirt) do i need ...

Alot, it's like make iron sword by boiling your own blood to gain iron from it. Do you really ask this or it's just for fun?

 

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Kasuha said:

You need 50 kg of dirt to get 1000 kcal of mealwood. You need 12.5 kg of slime to get 1000 kcal of mushroom.

 

Edit: I did the math.

Dirt/Mealwood cycle: 1000 g of water + 52 g of natural gas -> 20 kcal + 1793 J of power

Slime/Mushroom cycle: 1000 g of water + 218 g of natural gas -> 100 kcal + 2789 J of power

 

It's not clear cut but I would say Mushrooms are more sustainable.

I did some math

A single puft can produce 175 g/s of slime. Assume for a moment you want to produce 1000 kcal each 10s, so sustaining a colony of 60 dupes. Also assume you can perfectly convert fertilizer to dirt (which is plausible with a bit of set up), with supply through synthesizers (120g/s)

Mushrooms: 1750*X=12500 -> X= 8 pufts needed (rounded up)

Mealwood: 1200*X=50000 -> X= 42 synthesizers needed (also rounded up)

So clearly it's not really possible to sustain a colony of 60 dupes this way with cooking fertilizer to dirt. However, if RNG is with you and have a map with 8 pufts, you can effectively sustain such a colony with slime.

However a smaller colony of for instance 20 dupes can be sustained with mealwhood this way. And atlhough it requires quite a bit of set up work for the synthesizers, a way to cook the fertilizer and to get enough production of pwater going, I'd argue this is better than chasing after pufts across the whole map, although you'd only need 3 of those and if you end with up with a map where 3 very close to eachother, you are better off that way.

I'm clearly ignoring existing deposits of dirt and slime, as those are finite. Just purely looking at how you can produce these resources.

[Saturnus]

1 hour ago, blash365 said:

I meant mealwood.

I would like to see the numbers before i decide for it to be pointless. I am sure somebody has calculated it already, so let's see them.

 

• How many kg of pWater (by boiling it to dirt) do i need ...
• How many kg of fertizer do i need to burn ...
• How many Pufts do i need (which produce slime, which i can turn to pWater and slime, which i can then burn to dirt (both?)) ...

to fertilize 1 mealwood until it is fully grown (under perfect greenhouse conditions)?

Also how much energy would the boiling process need?

PW boils and leaves 0.1% of mass behind as dirt so you need to boil 10 tonnes of PW for each mealwood plant each cycle.

Fertilizer converts to dirt on one-to-one mass ratio.

[Nativel]

2 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

PW boils and leaves 0.1% of mass behind as dirt so you need to boil 10 tonnes of PW for each mealwood plant each cycle.

C'mon guys it's easy, 12 tonns of poluted water pfff, for 1 mealwood, what can be easier than this, but you will keep loylty to meal worms inside your brain, they asking for new friends.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Nativel said:

C'mon guys it's easy, 12 tonns of poluted water pfff, for 1 mealwood, what can be easier than this, but you will keep loylty to meal worms inside your brain, they asking for new friends.

He actually did not state anything about loyalty towards mealwood. He only mentioned it's easier (and more efficient) to get dirt through cooking fertilizer (to which I fully agree on).

Also I like to note you have not lost the water. 0.1% is turned into dirt, the other 99.9% is turned into steam and can be reused, including cooling down and turned into pwater again. The game is all about synergies.

[Saturnus]

2 minutes ago, turbonl64 said:

He actually did not state anything about loyalty towards mealwood. He only mentioned it's easier (and more efficient) to get dirt through cooking fertilizer (to which I fully agree on).

Also I like to note you have not lost the water. 0.1% is turned into dirt, the other 99.9% is turned into steam and can be reused, including cooling down and turned into pwater again. The game is all about synergies.

Ah but there's a tiny logistical problem with the PW boiling. You need 1.666(7) liquid pumps running non-stop to feed the boiler per mealwood plant. That's per plant, not per dupe. Let's just say that it's fairly impractical.

[Oozinator]