Job not possible to acquire?

[RonEmpire]

Okay-  So what happens if you don't assign a ROLE/JOB.     And then you eventually run out of the low level stuff to dig,  and the only thing remains in the game are high level required jobs.?

Similarly with Researching.


Also - if your  awesome Dupe that leveled up  those specific skills end up dying, and there are nothing left to be used to level the low level to progress to the high level.

So if an experienced DUPE died,  you're screwed?

[Oozinator]

24 minutes ago, RonEmpire said:

.. if an experienced DUPE died,  you're screwed?

Yep, possible in many ways. Just run out of algae, before electro research was done. Possible to run out of dirt too (no research)..

[TheOlz]

To be fair, running out of algae before you research electrolyzers means you've survived hundreds and hundreds of cycles without researching it.  

OP's question is a bit more realistic.  If you mine out biomes, using the natural abyssalite as the boundaries (as I often do) with the intent to clear the abyssalite and combine areas out after you've tidied up (gasses, temps and resources) you could potentially screw yourself if your advanced miners die.

It may just mean a change of play style to adapt, but it was one of the first things I thought about when I saw the miner jobs.

[Saturnus]

6 minutes ago, TheOlz said:

To be fair, running out of algae before you research electrolyzers means you've survived hundreds and hundreds of cycles without researching it. 

That is true but the danger of running out of dirt is real. A first time player that doesn't know dirt is now pretty much the most important resource in the game will squander it willy-nilly on making mush-bars and fertilizing mealwood. 

[Wedgebert]

I only played for a few minutes yesterday, but if I was reading things correctly, this shouldn't be a game ending problem.

I started a new map and assigned a dupe as researcher from the start. Despite only digging and building, she had acquired some exp in her job. Maybe it was less than she would have gotten actually doing science, but it was progress.

So at least for now we have the D&D style "I just killed 10 orcs and so I can suddenly speak fluent Dwarvish" kinda thing going.

[The Plum Gate]

From what I can tell, the dupes don't need to do anything to gain the skill buffs, as soon as you assign them that role, they get a role-buff as described in the job description, and loose it when you unassign them, they keep whatever they learned apart from the buff, but the buff is instant. I wish there were a little better differentiation in the interface which indicates this - is only evident from the tooltips in the stats of the duplicant ( a kind of out of the way place for it ). I wonder if they intend for it to be like this, where they get the instant buff, or if it's supposed to progess as usual, because my scientist isn't getting any better at learning yet my diggers are getting better at digging.

As for being able to progress beyond the first levels after you've run out of things to do - that I don't know about.

[RonEmpire]

It is very possible to run out of  lower level tasks to gain the needed experience/mastery  to obtain the higher level roles.

AND what makes it worst is that if you take the  dupe OFF the low level role after he has obtained mastery,  he will actually  FORGET/LOSE the xp.

Example:

I assigned a guy to research assistant.   Then he was promoted to the next tier of research to perform some higher research.  BUT  I needed him to switch to another task. (Since he had no research interest)  made more sense to level up something else he was interested in.  When I needed to go back to research something,  he forgot  his previous mastery and must start from scratch as an assistant again.

If you keep doing this, over time, you will run out of  research points to actually obtain the higher level role and will either be locked out of obtaining higher tech.

It's also more problematic, is when other Dupes jump in and steal the low level research and not gain any XP instead of the guy assigned to doing the actual job.  You have to manage this and disable everybody from research completely and only the guy assigned to doing it so he can get the experience.

The solution I think to things that you will run out of stuff to do would be to have some sort of  "Training Station".
This was previous suggested for Strength leveling such as having a gym, where they can work on training.
But its becoming more of a problem this new update specifically for research.
And eventually I can see mining/digging running into similar problems when you run out of low level stuff to dig because all your guys are doing it.

Maybe have a center where they can build up digging and research on something that doesn't ever complete, but can gain small XP towards their mastery role.

[The Plum Gate]

58 minutes ago, RonEmpire said:

When I needed to go back to research something,  he forgot  his previous mastery and must start from scratch as an assistant again.

That sounds worthy of a bug report, because they're all supposed to remember their experience - that's how the system is supposed to work.

[Kabrute]

This might make sense except dupes gain job experience in their sleep....... so literally existing gives them job experience.  Working as a farmer gives them research exp if they are set to researcher....

[RonEmpire]

38 minutes ago, Kabrute said:

This might make sense except dupes gain job experience in their sleep....... so literally existing gives them job experience.  Working as a farmer gives them research exp if they are set to researcher....

I have to test that out  on the   gain xp in the sleep part.    so  what u're saying is if I have nothing selected for research.  but the researcher will still gain XP?

[Kabrute]

yes

[Saturnus]

16 minutes ago, RonEmpire said:

I have to test that out  on the   gain xp in the sleep part.    so  what u're saying is if I have nothing selected for research.  but the researcher will still gain XP?

It the same for any job. It doesn't matter what the dupe actually does, and if it's related to his job, he still gets experience. Quickest way to level up dupes in any job fast is to force them to mop the floor that is constantly being spilled on by a bottle emptier, and/or have the run on hamster wheels with a consumer but no battery attached.

[Oozinator]

On 26.1.2018 at 2:50 PM, TheOlz said:

To be fair, running out of algae before you research electrolyzers means you've survived hundreds and hundreds of cycles without researching it. 

Every piece aof algae in my viewrange was in a bad spot and digging/building ladders 20 tiles to get 1t..
There are situations, where not enough time is, to react (now).
In the next map i had no geyser in range and in my actual map it's a pain to build abasylite isolated tiles in some spots. They are so freaking slow, so many times ending their path (toilet/food) or dropping material loooong laddercorridors down. Some duplicants went completely busy with that job. I had to break long corridors (first time, since i play oni). Down firepoles are ok, but up i needed some steps, or they are stuck in a loop. High prio there will kill the base. Had very complicated things to do, to get them down to the oil. I locked them down at work, dropped some food there, to get it done..
ONI is now to boring for me, i wait for next update/patch ^^

[SkunkMaster]

I'm now at cycle 400+ with the preview build. I managed to run out of both algae and dirt.

It seems to me like the Algae deoxydizer uses more algae, and that not only does maelwood now use dirt, it feeds for less.

I'm really annoyed by the fact that there is a hard limit on how many you can have in any given job. Maybe some sorts of supervisor system or the likes would've been a cap, but just simple hardcaps for the amount of any given kind of worker seems dumb to me.

 

 

[PhailRaptor]

4 hours ago, RonEmpire said:

It's also more problematic, is when other Dupes jump in and steal the low level research and not gain any XP instead of the guy assigned to doing the actual job.  You have to manage this and disable everybody from research completely and only the guy assigned to doing it so he can get the experience.

Uh...  I always did this before.  Do people NOT do this?

[RonEmpire]

Interestingly enough,  they DO gain XP in their sleep.   I have a research assistant at 2% now,  out of the new dupe gate, and I haven't built a research station yet.

I guess this solves the can't gain XP problem when you have nothing left to do.

[Saturnus]

7 minutes ago, RonEmpire said:

Interestingly enough,  they DO gain XP in their sleep.   I have a research assistant at 2% now,  out of the new dupe gate, and I haven't built a research station yet.

I guess this solves the can't gain XP problem when you have nothing left to do.

I'm not sure. Sleeping is considered a task, just like eating, and using the rest room so I'm thinking that's why they get XP sleeping right now. The devs simply haven't made a list of task that doesn't grant XP yet.

[clickrush]

On 26.1.2018 at 2:59 PM, Saturnus said:

That is true but the danger of running out of dirt is real. A first time player that doesn't know dirt is now pretty much the most important resource in the game will squander it willy-nilly on making mush-bars and fertilizing mealwood. 

Wait how is dirt used after you move on to higher tier food? Berries only use water and light and wheat uses water and fertilizer. The farm station uses fertilizer too.

[Saturnus]

1 minute ago, clickrush said:

Wait how is dirt used after you move on to higher tier food? Berries only use water and light and wheat uses water and fertilizer. The farm station uses fertilizer too.

Exactly like I describe in that quote. If you don't know you have to move on to better quality foods and keep making mush bar and mealwood you will run out. Surprisingly fast too. A few hundred cycles with 12ish dupes, combined with research and building the farm tiles or planter boxes and it's all gone.

[RonEmpire]

Dirt is a very finite resource.   and limited.    You will run out.    It's also used in making pills to keep them healthy.

 

[TheOlz]

Dirt is theoretically renewable, well not even theoretically, it can be renewed.

Buuuuut, it's a complete pain in the ass to cook slime or fertilizer to turn it into dirt.

[PhailRaptor]

54 minutes ago, RonEmpire said:

Dirt is a very finite resource.   and limited.    You will run out.    It's also used in making pills to keep them healthy.

Actually, Dirt is anything but a finite resource.  NatGas/FertSynth power loops produce way more Fertilizer than you could ever use on farming.  Heat your Fertilizer enough and it transforms to Dirt.  And there are a number of ways to transfer waste heat from other processes to accomplish this.

[Kabrute]

Fertilizer will flip to dirt in a water purification tank

[GrindThisGame]

10 hours ago, RonEmpire said:

Interestingly enough,  they DO gain XP in their sleep

I get my best ideas while sleeping, pooping and showering

[Saturnus]

2 hours ago, PhailRaptor said:

Actually, Dirt is anything but a finite resource.  NatGas/FertSynth power loops produce way more Fertilizer than you could ever use on farming.  Heat your Fertilizer enough and it transforms to Dirt.  And there are a number of ways to transfer waste heat from other processes to accomplish this.

Unfortunately. It is practically impossible to build something as complex as a fertilizer kiln in the current state of the preview in any realistic amount of cycles. And by the time you do finish it you will no longer need dirt at all. So for all intents and purposes dirt is very much a finite resource in the current state of the game.