minespatch Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 This should probably be put in Single player lore but the rose has been given greater significance in DST. I'm not sure if the rose happened before Charlie became Maxwell's assistant but it seems to hold great importance to the two. Perhaps there's more to the rose than we know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrubberinos Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Isn't the Rose just like, Charlie's symbol? Like it symbolises that she's been here or in the DST world, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axxel Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 The rose stands definitely for Charlie. But take a look on the A New Reign video, only Charlie's good personality (refered as Shadow Charlie) wear the rose, while Monster Charlie does not wear any headpiece and Queen Charlie changes the rose to a fashinator. I note here that the fashinator looks similar to Winona's hairdo + her tied headband, may be coincedence. I don't want to comment what the rose stands for, I think all of you shoukld know this. Also old Charlie's rose is rather closed than the fully bloomed rose of Maxwell. We can interpret that the fully bloomed rose stands for William's new open-minded, direct and dapper ego Maxwell after aquiring the Codex Umbra (while he had his problems...), while old Charlie was kind of a wallflower (since she was a mere assistant of William, I doubt she got the any attention), the closed rose is fitting for her. It looks like that the conflict/fusion of Shadow Charlie (the good old one) and Monster Charlie (corrupted, hatred form) gave birth to a more human like Queen Charlie. I think this personality wanted to get rif off its old trademark (the rose!) because she wasn't Maxwell's assistant anymore, seeking a more individual outfit than be remembered as "Maxwell's assistant" if he would see her. Also it looks like she got more control of her monster form, but we can guess that the grudge is a shell left by Qeen Charlie, since numerous Characters comment on the familiar presence (but we didn't see, so it's unlikely that happened, and the The Grudge is the very same Queen Charlie, just retaining her role as the night monster, but I talk about that later). Or, she didn't want the connection, the roses, between Maxwell and herself anymore. I should also note here that a pawn can be promoted to the queen in chess, but as we have no king, Charlie got the secondary role as the "king". If we compare the game as chess, Charlie is the game master (the game creator, inviter and entertainer of the guests), the player who plays the black pieces and makes moves, the queen (which cannot be attacked yet) and the king (which cannot be attacked yet). This would explain why she would still attack players and gave out something enjoyable things and arts. As the roses in the jar in the ANR vid, the whole update posters and the florid postern, I dunno. Maybe she wanted a piece of nostalgia of old self or Maxwell or both, or it's just a symbol of her reign ( I kook at the red queen in Alice ). These are my ideas of the rose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeGuy Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 I did a bit of web searching, and it turns out that in real life, roses have a multitude of meanings, which change depending on the breed, color, number of blossoms, openesss, etc. of the rose. Among them, there's secrecy (the phrase "sub rosa" referred to hanging roses as a signal to keep things spoken underneath them private), which kind of suits Charlie, since she's a shadow queen with a (currently) mysterious agenda. Also of note is the interplay between the pretty bloom and painful thorns, which can be used as a symbol of balance. The whole "red rose = romance" thing is a bit confusing, since there isn't a lot of that going on in the story, so it might just refer to general passion. Another interesting tidbit is that multiple characters commment on Charlie herself smelling like roses. If anyone else wants to do further research, the specific breed of rose Charlie seems to be associated with is Rosa Macdub (according to Wickerbottom), or Dublin Bay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedregales Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 I believe the most close association of Charlie with roses is the following: beautiful, but thorny; mostly because the roses are the only flowers that damage you when you pick them up. We know that Winona (a heavy worker) is Charlie's sister, so is safe to assume that Charlie is at least half as strong physically and in attitude; and it seems true when seeing the video of her and Maxwell being dragged by the Codex Umbra: right after Maxwell is attacked by a shadow in the book she goes to help him and she looks sternly at the Codex before being pulled to the world of Them alongside Maxwell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnWatson Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 the roses stand for exclusive tencent rose skins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minespatch Posted December 18, 2017 Author Share Posted December 18, 2017 On 12/18/2017 at 1:20 AM, JohnWatson said: the roses stand for exclusive tencent rose skins Unattainable but still memed for us Steam normies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeGuy Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 On 12/18/2017 at 7:14 AM, minespatch said: Unattainable but still memed for us Steam normies Oh, the irony... As for my earlier comment on the Dublin Bay rose, I also found a website (address forgotten) that said that this is the most common breed of red rose, so that might be a dead end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlogy Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 On 12/18/2017 at 1:20 AM, JohnWatson said: the roses stand for exclusive tencent rose skins i hate to tell you this but Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minespatch Posted December 19, 2017 Author Share Posted December 19, 2017 2 hours ago, SpikeGuy said: Oh, the irony... I don't work at Klei, how was I supposed to know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IzzyXD Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 1 hour ago, minespatch said: I don't work at Klei, how was I supposed to know? Sounds like something a synth Klei worker would say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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