In need of some help

[Urfable]

I haven't played ONI in a while (back when the only way to sustain a colony in the late game was to have vomiting dupes), and i have picked it back up the past day or two since there has been a few updates. I'm still as terrible at liquid and gas piping as i ever was. With all the new things going on, I'm not sure what researches i should prioritize. Basically my brain trips over itself trying to build all the things i think i need but also not knowing what exactly i need. It'd be great if anyone has any tips on what i should focus on researching, how to optimize piping (mine always end up all over the place and looks hideous), and anything else that may be important. Thanks in advance!

 

TLDR: My brain is fried and I could use some tips from more experienced players.

[clickrush]

In full honesty just play, make mistakes and figure them out. If you need any help with something specific then ask away. There is no *one* way of doing things.

As a general tip: leave space for everything and take your time digging and exploring. There is no rush.

[MidnightSteam]

For researching I would head straight for food like the Planter boxes - I use those basically forever.

Next is researching the basics - gas pumps, liquid pumps, etc...

Next I head for reducing stress with the Art tree.

Then nothing else really matters for now. Just focus on getting all your Dupes to 7 or more Learning and it takes care of itself. I actually run out of Dupes and have someone with higher Learning.

Or research specific techs if you really need them.

 

To sum it all down: Oxygen, Food, Stress, Power. If you're having trouble following these guidelines then you may be playing inefficiently.

[GuyPerfect]

My personal order of operations:

Before researching anything, I set up two Manual Generators and four Tiny Batteries to run an Algae Deoxylizer, Microbe Musher and Research Station.

1. Power Regulation to swap out the four Tiny Batteries with two Batteries
2. Advanced Research to get that Super Computer going
3. Basic Farming+Meal Preparation to ready up some Farm Tiles with Mealwood. This is my primary food source.
4. Agriculture to make a Refrigerator and keep those Lice Loaves from spoiling
5. Internal Combustion+Advanced Power Regulation to get ready for non-manual power generation. The Manual Generators are replaced with a single Coal Generator

At this point, I like to find a cold biome to build a power plant in, since I don't like the heat or the surplus Carbon Dioxide this early in the game. I build two Coal Generators and eight Batteries, but only run one of the generators unless I'm consuming a lot of power. A long Heavi-Watt Wire is run all the way back to the base where it gets distributed with Power Transformers.

1. Interior Decor+Artistic Expression, where I set up a bunch of paintings and statues in strategic locations such as beds, food production and research. A Massage Table goes up somewhere too
2. Plumbing+Sanitation+Deconamination so I can stick a Deodorizer in my toilet area
3. Air Systems and Filtration+Distillation in order to set up a Carbon Skimmer and Water Sieve at the bottom of my base

From here, it's pretty much gravy. I usually follow this up with upgrading the toilets to Lavatories and Sinks, then set up an Electrolyzer system to replace the Algae Deoxylizer as the source of Oxygen production. All that's left after this is to do some Crude Oil refining, the remaining research, then run out of things to do!

[Urfable]

4 hours ago, GuyPerfect said:

My personal order of operations:

Before researching anything, I set up two Manual Generators and four Tiny Batteries to run an Algae Deoxylizer, Microbe Musher and Research Station.

1. Power Regulation to swap out the four Tiny Batteries with two Batteries
2. Advanced Research to get that Super Computer going
3. Basic Farming+Meal Preparation to ready up some Farm Tiles with Mealwood. This is my primary food source.
4. Agriculture to make a Refrigerator and keep those Lice Loaves from spoiling
5. Internal Combustion+Advanced Power Regulation to get ready for non-manual power generation. The Manual Generators are replaced with a single Coal Generator

At this point, I like to find a cold biome to build a power plant in, since I don't like the heat or the surplus Carbon Dioxide this early in the game. I build two Coal Generators and eight Batteries, but only run one of the generators unless I'm consuming a lot of power. A long Heavi-Watt Wire is run all the way back to the base where it gets distributed with Power Transformers.

1. Interior Decor+Artistic Expression, where I set up a bunch of paintings and statues in strategic locations such as beds, food production and research. A Massage Table goes up somewhere too
2. Plumbing+Sanitation+Deconamination so I can stick a Deodorizer in my toilet area
3. Air Systems and Filtration+Distillation in order to set up a Carbon Skimmer and Water Sieve at the bottom of my base

From here, it's pretty much gravy. I usually follow this up with upgrading the toilets to Lavatories and Sinks, then set up an Electrolyzer system to replace the Algae Deoxylizer as the source of Oxygen production. All that's left after this is to do some Crude Oil refining, the remaining research, then run out of things to do!

Thank you for sharing! What is the cold biome though? Has that always been in the game? (I haven't explored too far out yet)
And about how long/how many cycles does it usually take for your string of operations? In my current seed, i think i started panicking about running out of fresh water since there wasn't much around so i set up a water filter early but I'm not sure if it would've been fine if i let it be for a while longer. Also, i saw that there were suits further in the research branch, are those for exploring further out? Or are they not necessary?

Sorry for all the questions, you don't have to reply to all of them if you don't want. Thanks for the help though!

[PhailRaptor]

My research order is usually along these lines:

1) Basic Farming (Planter Boxes and Compost)

2) Advance Research

3) tunnel through Plumbing and Sanitation to reach Decontamination (Air Deodorizers)

4) power through Interior Decor and Artistic Expression (Flower Pots, Paintings, and Statues)

5) Air Systems (Electrolyzers)

6) Power Regulation (larger Batteries) and Internal Combustion (Hydrogen Generator) OR Ventilation (gas systems) and Pressure Management to reach Improved Ventilation (Atmo Sensor), then the other.  Need all of it to set up a Hydrogen Generator.

7) Temperature Modulation (Insulated Tiles)

 

After that, it's just kind of random, chugging through to finish it all in order to deconstruct the Research buildings to free up space and Metals.  1 through 3 I usually have to weigh the time spent researching versus time spent digging or building.  By the time I'm looking at 4 I've finished my basic Bathroom (Outhouses, Wash Basins, Deodorizers for the P-H2O bottles and Polluted Dirt, Compost), my Living Quarters (4 Cots per level, space for a Statue between and a Flower Pot on each side for Briars, then Pneumatic Doors and Airflow Tiles to close rooms), my Storage level (Storage lockers all the way across, set to accept most things), and my Farm Level (3 Mealwood per Dupe in Planter Boxes).

 

Now that Geysers are a thing, and Mealwood is stupidly overpowered, it's actually very, very, very easy to achieve long term stability.  If you haven't seen them yet, a Geyser is a natural object that produces either Steam, Natural Gas, or Chlorine at regular intervals, and they never run out.  All you have to do is set up your Liquid Pump and pipe it to a few Electrolyzers and you're set.

[OfficialLolicon]

7 hours ago, Urfable said:

Thank you for sharing! What is the cold biome though? Has that always been in the game? (I haven't explored too far out yet)
And about how long/how many cycles does it usually take for your string of operations? In my current seed, i think i started panicking about running out of fresh water since there wasn't much around so i set up a water filter early but I'm not sure if it would've been fine if i let it be for a while longer. Also, i saw that there were suits further in the research branch, are those for exploring further out? Or are they not necessary?

Sorry for all the questions, you don't have to reply to all of them if you don't want. Thanks for the help though!

Cold biome is a place rich in ice, snow and useful raw metal. It's always cold and useful for cooling buildings. (Such power systems and food storages).

Not that one who posted it, but I think it could be accomplished within 12~16 cycles (depends with your dupe stats and world seed), but no need to rush tho, it takes a while after all.

Running out of water in early game is a common issue, and going to the filtration was a good response. In later cycles, you should try finding a magma chamber to heat up your polluted water to get steam and sand, pretty useful and gives you 1:1 water ration.

Exosuits aren't a necessity,  but could be useful in avoiding slimelung (harmful disease) in early cycles. Below your world lies a biome rich in oil and carbon dioxide, which is useful in material production.. However, it's extremely hot and exosuits are a must if you want travel there with 0 casualties. Short words, Exosuits are needed if you're travelling downward, and useful for avoiding slimelungs.

I can't give tips since I'm not yet pro like everybody, sorry about that but I do hope this helps.

[chemie]

I just start at the top and work my my through. Honestly, it only take 20-30 cycles to research everything and I am still digging things out and not really needing anything form the tech tree beyond the basics like a planter for lice.

Research, only requiring dirt and water for all levels, is kind of silly.  Upper research should require resources obtained from earlier research. 

[GuyPerfect]

asdfasdf

10 hours ago, Urfable said:

What is the cold biome though? Has that always been in the game? (I haven't explored too far out yet)

I started playing in Outbreak Upgrade, and by that point they were already there. I don't know if they've been around forever or not. They look about like this:

      

It does get cold there (surprise surprise), so don't spend too much time or your Duplicants will get Hypothermia. It's not a huge problem, since getting sick from cold gases takes a lot longer than being submerged in cold liquids. The biomes are also commonly filled with Carbon Dioxide, so if you spend any appreciable time there, you might want to run some ventilation to help them breathe.

I've already gathered up all of them that I've come across, but there's a plant called Wheezewort that grows in the cold biomes:

      

They can't be harvested and so are not renewable, but they can't be destroyed either that I can tell. If you move them into your base, they'll gradually cool off the surrounding atmosphere for free. If you gather up several of them and place them next to heat producers, they're a surprisingly effective means of regulating temperature.

10 hours ago, Urfable said:

And about how long/how many cycles does it usually take for your string of operations? In my current seed, i think i started panicking about running out of fresh water since there wasn't much around so i set up a water filter early but I'm not sure if it would've been fine if i let it be for a while longer.

For me personally, since I like to run with just four Duplicants, usually 60-75 cycles before sandboxing really begins. There's no reason I can't add more people to the party, but there's something about the low food and Oxygen consumption that appeals to me, so I stick it out the patient way.

Water is extraordinarily abundant, just not the blue stuff. Some people swear by the Steam Geysers, which does give you an infinite supply of water over time, but it's 100 degrees, so you need to be prepared to handle it. Otherwise, I've gotten good results from using a Water Sieve to clean the pools of Polluted Water found in the slime biomes, since they rarely contain any germs.

The aforementioned cold biome is also an unconventional source of water. If you store frozen Snow and Ice in a containment tank, it will eventually melt into liquid water. I do this a lot to give my Thermo Aquatuner a place to keep cool:

      

You'll have to enlarge the image to see it, but the highlighted square of water is 0.2 degrees. The Aquatuner can run for a long time without increasing the temperature in the tank very much. By the time it does, I can just use it as an ordinary water source and start a brand new cold tank.

10 hours ago, Urfable said:

Also, i saw that there were suits further in the research branch, are those for exploring further out? Or are they not necessary?

I've been struggling to find a use for them. I guess you could use them if you need to plow through a hazardous area in order to reach the other side, but I like to take my time and deal with environments as I encounter them. I've developed particular digging and containment strategies to keep hazards at bay as I move along.

The Exosuit tech is on the far end of the research tree and require Reed Fibers to produce, which can be tricky to harvest since they grow in the slime biomes and require Polluted Water in Hydroponic Farms. I personally don't use them, since I've never come across a need for them.

3 hours ago, OfficialLolicon said:

Below your world lies a biome rich in oil and carbon dioxide, which is useful in material production.. However, it's extremely hot and exosuits are a must if you want travel there with 0 casualties.

I beg to differ:

      

The silly Duplicants are so resilient that even without protection, they can fully submerge themselves in 80 degree oil for a few seconds without suffering any ill effects from it.

I kinda lucked out in this case, since the oil was directly below a cold biome and Crude Oil has a low heat capacity. Even in that bottom chamber...

      

... it's actually a bit cooler than the atmosphere in my base. <3

[clickrush]

I can confirm that some of the typical newbie mistakes and misconceptions include:

1. Being afraid of not having enough water:

You only *need* water for research and basins/sinks. Research stops after a while and basins/sinks use very little water. You can easily extend to showers sinks and lavatories w/o worrying about water for hundrets of cycles w/o using a steam geyser.

2. Building too tightly together and not deconstructing:

Use the space you have and plan a bit ahead. If you are building adhoc/temporary stuff then don't be afraid to deconstruct it and build up things a bit more nicely and orderly. This mostly refers to plumbing/wiring/ventilation, because those things tend to get worse and worse if you don't take the time to either plan ahead or rearrange them now and then (similar to programming).

3. Adding every dupe:

This is a small colony simulation. You are not supposed to take on every dupe. Add dupes when you have space and ressources for them.

4. Not using temporary solutions / wanting to get "sustainable" too fast:

You don't need to prepare for cycle 1000 at cycle 65. There is *more* than enough algae for o2, water/polluted water for basins/sinks and coal and oil puddles for power, for you to pretty much explore the whole map and dig up things you need to build your base. You don't need to destroy CO2 if you keep digging down and to the sides now and then (which you probably want to because you can find oil and slicksters down there).

It is actually similar to DS/DST where new players will often try to rush to things quickly to try and get a sustainable base, which then might become a mess or be in a suboptimal place etc. while more exprienced players will explore the world and gather ressources for much longer.

[madcat1188]

I like to start out with a fairly small base and only 4 or 5 dupes. Try to pick at least two dupes with high research stats. Only build the basic necessities like cots, outhouses, manual generators, tiny batteries, algae deoxydizers, storage compactors, a picture pump in some water, a microbe musher, and the two science stations. Keep the size of the base itself small (a few levels 10 to 20 tiles wide). Then, focus on science and get through the entire science tree. Set the science buildings to a higher priority, like 7. I can usually do it in about 30 cycles. Once you're through the entire science tree, you can de-construct the science buildings since you don't need them any more, and start building the base out.

[Urfable]

19 hours ago, PhailRaptor said:

My research order is usually along these lines:

1) Basic Farming (Planter Boxes and Compost)

2) Advance Research

3) tunnel through Plumbing and Sanitation to reach Decontamination (Air Deodorizers)

4) power through Interior Decor and Artistic Expression (Flower Pots, Paintings, and Statues)

5) Air Systems (Electrolyzers)

6) Power Regulation (larger Batteries) and Internal Combustion (Hydrogen Generator) OR Ventilation (gas systems) and Pressure Management to reach Improved Ventilation (Atmo Sensor), then the other.  Need all of it to set up a Hydrogen Generator.

7) Temperature Modulation (Insulated Tiles)

 

After that, it's just kind of random, chugging through to finish it all in order to deconstruct the Research buildings to free up space and Metals.  1 through 3 I usually have to weigh the time spent researching versus time spent digging or building.  By the time I'm looking at 4 I've finished my basic Bathroom (Outhouses, Wash Basins, Deodorizers for the P-H2O bottles and Polluted Dirt, Compost), my Living Quarters (4 Cots per level, space for a Statue between and a Flower Pot on each side for Briars, then Pneumatic Doors and Airflow Tiles to close rooms), my Storage level (Storage lockers all the way across, set to accept most things), and my Farm Level (3 Mealwood per Dupe in Planter Boxes).

 

Now that Geysers are a thing, and Mealwood is stupidly overpowered, it's actually very, very, very easy to achieve long term stability.  If you haven't seen them yet, a Geyser is a natural object that produces either Steam, Natural Gas, or Chlorine at regular intervals, and they never run out.  All you have to do is set up your Liquid Pump and pipe it to a few Electrolyzers and you're set.

Thank you for the input! I actually haven't seen geysers yet but they sound quite interesting.

14 hours ago, OfficialLolicon said:

Cold biome is a place rich in ice, snow and useful raw metal. It's always cold and useful for cooling buildings. (Such power systems and food storages).

Not that one who posted it, but I think it could be accomplished within 12~16 cycles (depends with your dupe stats and world seed), but no need to rush tho, it takes a while after all.

Running out of water in early game is a common issue, and going to the filtration was a good response. In later cycles, you should try finding a magma chamber to heat up your polluted water to get steam and sand, pretty useful and gives you 1:1 water ration.

Exosuits aren't a necessity,  but could be useful in avoiding slimelung (harmful disease) in early cycles. Below your world lies a biome rich in oil and carbon dioxide, which is useful in material production.. However, it's extremely hot and exosuits are a must if you want travel there with 0 casualties. Short words, Exosuits are needed if you're travelling downward, and useful for avoiding slimelungs.

I can't give tips since I'm not yet pro like everybody, sorry about that but I do hope this helps.

It helped a bunch! Thank you.
I'll try out the magma chamber but i can see it going poorly... (I'll probably just melt my dupes or something...)

11 hours ago, GuyPerfect said:

 

Thanks for all the help and pictures!
I guess I've been trying to rush too much. Your patience is commendable!
 

11 hours ago, clickrush said:

I can confirm that some of the typical newbie mistakes and misconceptions include:

1. Being afraid of not having enough water:

You only *need* water for research and basins/sinks. Research stops after a while and basins/sinks use very little water. You can easily extend to showers sinks and lavatories w/o worrying about water for hundrets of cycles w/o using a steam geyser.

3. Adding every dupe:

This is a small colony simulation. You are not supposed to take on every dupe. Add dupes when you have space and ressources for them.

Pretty much...
Seeing my water source drain a little always panics me even though I know it'll probably last a good while.
And when i panic i add more dupes to try and speed things up but I'm starting to figure it's probably making things worse.

[NanoD]

I usually dig out the starting biom quit fast. You get food and alge from it. 

Food put 4 planter boxes per dupe for meal lice plants. So as fast as possible get down 12 planter boxes that's enfu for 4 dupes.  

I avoid using Micro musher. There is no problem using it. But remember it will take up lots of time from dupes = less digging

For oxygen I just use in the beginning alge oxidizers 2 of them. Then move over to Electrolyzers. 

I guess I have been scared once in a time when there were no geysers and no ice bioms. And use up all water. So now days I almost dont use any water any more hehe.

[GuyPerfect]

On 12/8/2017 at 11:53 PM, Urfable said:

And about how long/how many cycles does it usually take for your string of operations?

For reference, I just now finally got around to setting up a Metal Refinery... on cycle 231.

      

On the far right there is the Rock Granulator I've been making Refined Metal with up until now. I realized I was hammering out quite a bit of it, and using the Rock Granulator only gives you a 50% return on mass relative to the Raw Metal you put into it. The Metal Refinery, on the other hand, is 100%.

Since the Metal Refinery requires 1200 W of power and my basic circuit is running the standard 1000 W Wire, I opted to put two Coal Generators next to it instead. They each produce 600 W while running, which is perfect for powering the Refinery.

The yellow stuff I'm using as coolant is not Polluted Water, but Petroleum. It has a lower freezing point than water, as well as a lower heat capacity, making it the best-suited coolant available. I've got it fully enclosed in Insulated Tile because it's cold and I want to keep it that way. The water tank next to it is an in-progress cold tank like the one I mentioned earlier. I'll be putting a Thermo Aquatuner in there to chill off the Petroleum as needed. That doodad happens to run at 1200 W as well, so it'll be a simple matter of extending the wire from the Metal Refinery into the cold water tank when the time comes.

Pay no heed to the colored gas tanks. Those are just incidental when I was doing other stuff and I didn't have any better places for them. (-:

[Bloxxed]

On 12/10/2017 at 10:47 PM, GuyPerfect said:

[Petroleum] has a lower freezing point than water, as well as a lower heat capacity, making it the best-suited coolant available.

 

Fluids with a lower heat capacity are actually worse at cooling due to them warming up faster.

[clickrush]

10 minutes ago, Bloxxed said:

Fluids with a lower heat capacity are actually worse at cooling due to them warming up faster.

Petroleum is used instead of water because it a much wider liquid state range than water. You can also use crude oil which only has slightly worse properties than petroleum. The higher conductivity and lower capacity make it so you can cool it down quickly before pumping it in again.

By the way the metal refinery and the polymer press are excellent candidates for pressure plate automation. You can set the the plate to a reasonable 'buffer' amount of materials and shut the refiner/press off when it reaches that cap. Now you can just use the materials and they will be regenerated as long as there is raw material supply.

[Bloxxed]

15 minutes ago, clickrush said:

Petroleum is used instead of water because it a much wider liquid state range than water.

I did not say you should use water, as I thought this was established.

16 minutes ago, clickrush said:

The higher conductivity and lower capacity make it so you can cool it down quickly before pumping it in again.

It will not make any difference, according to thermodynamics. If a fluid has a lower capacity, then yes: It will cool down faster. On the contrary, it will also heat up faster. This only matters if you are using an aquatuner, which consistently cool liquids by a certain number of degrees. To get the most out of your aquatuner, you want liquids with the highest capacity possible.

On another note, here are the stats for petrol and oil.

Petroleum

• Specific Heat Capacity: 1.76 (J/g)/K
• Thermal Conductivity: 2
• Freezing Point: -70.9 °F

Crude Oil

• Specific Heat Capacity: 1.69 (J/g)/K
• Thermal Conductivity: 2
• Freezing Point: -40.3 °F

Petroleum is much better in almost every way.

[clickrush]

Thx for the clarification, I assumed that the refinery works the same as the aquatuner and regulator.