We REALLY need the vote kick for the Forge

[VexTheHex]

 I personally don't know if vote kick or kick control by the owner is a good idea. As much as people want to claim people can abuse the lack of the feature, the feature itself can be abused. And not all trolls swing their filth at everyone. I had one that was trying her best to trigger another player. I defended that player and they switched targets to me. She spent most of the game and lobby typing praise to the others and bad mouthing me to turn them on me as she kept trying to push (and with success, tbh) my buttons. Those types can flirt with the others and try their best to get others booted for kicks and giggles.

 I can imagine many elitists kicking people for not picking what they want to them to kick. People kicking people for a friend to join even if that person had been in the lobby for a long time. People would also make lobbies simply to kick people. Wait for it to fill up. Act like you're picking or BRB, then start kicking some here and there. A kick feature can be just as abused.

And in no way should it be implemented into the actual match itself as trolls could simply vote kick people at the end or halfway through for fun even after the person put in effort and time. And I'd have to say someone getting booted from a lobby for picking Wendy after they been sitting and waiting for the room to fill would also be pretty crappy.

 

 

[TemporaryMan]

I don't think any of those concerns would be a big deal if it requires a majority vote.  Concerns about trolls abusing the vote-kick system strike me as a Willow's Lighter Scenario: the problem isn't the tools the trolls use, but the presence of trolls on your server.  They're doing just as much damage without vote-kick already, so why say no to a tool that could get rid of them swiftly?

 

If trolls organize and group up 4 to a server to vote-kick people, better they be bunched up in their own servers than spread out causing grief in many of them.  They already know how to pick up the living staff and then afk, or just afk in the lobby.

 

Manipulative trolls who turn people against each other can already chase people from a lobby, as your story illustrated.

 

Elitists* who kick people for not picking what they wanted would have ended one of a few ways anyway:

1. The elitist quits, either in the lobby or during the game.
2. The whole group is elitist, and have a standoff until the new guy quits.
3. The whole group is elitist, and have a standoff until the whole group quits and creates a new server.
4. The whole group is elitist, but they compromise and let the new guy do what they want.  The new guy is quite capable.
5. The whole group is elitist, but they compromise and let the new guy do what they want.  The new guy is a bumbling incompetent or troll, several people ragequit, the match fails, and everyone else bails on the server afterward.
6. The new guy quits immediately when asked nicely.
7. The new guy compromises and changes their selection.

Please note that while the other scenarios listed above are common, scenario 2 is a fairy tale; it does not exist.  Instead, the result is always something closer to 3, because most people I've seen (myself included) would rather bail, and find or make a new server, than deal with some commander contrarian with no concept of being a team player.  Let's be clear about one thing: in the event of a disagreement, I have always been the guy in scenario 7 who changes their character choice to accommodate the team's wishes.  Always.  I'm level 65 now.  I have all the character achievements now.  Sooner or later, there are opportunities to play those other characters or get those achievements; there is absolutely no point digging in your heels and starting a fight to get your preference immediately.  Just ask nicely, but go along with others' preferences if they say no.  

*You probably know from the previous paragraph where I'm going with this: is the team really elitist and deadfast against the new guy's character choice, or does the new guy just have poor listening and teamwork skills, and the team doesn't want any of the drama and acrimony that creates (and the inevitable loss and/or ragequits that go with it)?  I've seen both.

 

The kicked for a friend scenario is similar.  Without a vote-kick, that just ends in someone leaving promptly, or in arguments, exchanged insults, and either the player with a friend joining their friend's server, or most of the lobby quitting and looking elsewhere.

 

tl;dr the vote-kick wouldn't banish people from teams that otherwise would have worked together charmingly; it just expediently removes people who would have left anyway, but with much less conflict and acrimony.  Blaming vote-kick is like blaming divorce for breaking up an abusive couple.  The problems were already there.

I think I agree about not vote-kicking during the match, though.  If the trolls (or just combative team members) aren't removed while in the lobby, then the damage is already done.  Better just to wipe, get some exp, and then vote-kick if necessary (though usually if the problem was an argument, one or more people will leave anyway).

[FreyaMaluk]

new update today I had to close and reopen 4 times custom servers cuz trolls and griefers. Ty Klei 

Stop defending not having vote kick if you play with friends only. You don't know what are you talking about. ty

[Soulk]

4 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said:

new update today I had to close and reopen 4 times custom servers cuz trolls and griefers. Ty Klei 

Stop defending not having vote kick if you play with friends only. You don't know what are you talking about. ty

You rigth freya, i think what i said its the best option, be able to votekick on private servers as owner, for public server just leave it to ppl using the quick match button.

[Starlogy]

Simple solution: Passworded servers get vote kick, public servers do not get vote kick. Ez.

[FreyaMaluk]

5 hours ago, Starlogy said:

Simple solution: Passworded servers get vote kick, public servers do not get vote kick. Ez.

this is not implemented in the normal game and it might be more time consuming for the devs that just allowing the simple vote kick

15 hours ago, TemporaryMan said:

I don't think any of those concerns would be a big deal if it requires a majority vote.  Concerns about trolls abusing the vote-kick system strike me as a Willow's Lighter Scenario: the problem isn't the tools the trolls use, but the presence of trolls on your server.  They're doing just as much damage without vote-kick already, so why say no to a tool that could get rid of them swiftly?

 

If trolls organize and group up 4 to a server to vote-kick people, better they be bunched up in their own servers than spread out causing grief in many of them.  They already know how to pick up the living staff and then afk, or just afk in the lobby.

 

Manipulative trolls who turn people against each other can already chase people from a lobby, as your story illustrated.

 

Elitists* who kick people for not picking what they wanted would have ended one of a few ways anyway:

1. The elitist quits, either in the lobby or during the game.
2. The whole group is elitist, and have a standoff until the new guy quits.
3. The whole group is elitist, and have a standoff until the whole group quits and creates a new server.
4. The whole group is elitist, but they compromise and let the new guy do what they want.  The new guy is quite capable.
5. The whole group is elitist, but they compromise and let the new guy do what they want.  The new guy is a bumbling incompetent or troll, several people ragequit, the match fails, and everyone else bails on the server afterward.
6. The new guy quits immediately when asked nicely.
7. The new guy compromises and changes their selection.

Please note that while the other scenarios listed above are common, scenario 2 is a fairy tale; it does not exist.  Instead, the result is always something closer to 3, because most people I've seen (myself included) would rather bail, and find or make a new server, than deal with some commander contrarian with no concept of being a team player.  Let's be clear about one thing: in the event of a disagreement, I have always been the guy in scenario 7 who changes their character choice to accommodate the team's wishes.  Always.  I'm level 65 now.  I have all the character achievements now.  Sooner or later, there are opportunities to play those other characters or get those achievements; there is absolutely no point digging in your heels and starting a fight to get your preference immediately.  Just ask nicely, but go along with others' preferences if they say no.  

*You probably know from the previous paragraph where I'm going with this: is the team really elitist and deadfast against the new guy's character choice, or does the new guy just have poor listening and teamwork skills, and the team doesn't want any of the drama and acrimony that creates (and the inevitable loss and/or ragequits that go with it)?  I've seen both.

 

The kicked for a friend scenario is similar.  Without a vote-kick, that just ends in someone leaving promptly, or in arguments, exchanged insults, and either the player with a friend joining their friend's server, or most of the lobby quitting and looking elsewhere.

 

tl;dr the vote-kick wouldn't banish people from teams that otherwise would have worked together charmingly; it just expediently removes people who would have left anyway, but with much less conflict and acrimony.  Blaming vote-kick is like blaming divorce for breaking up an abusive couple.  The problems were already there.

I think I agree about not vote-kicking during the match, though.  If the trolls (or just combative team members) aren't removed while in the lobby, then the damage is already done.  Better just to wipe, get some exp, and then vote-kick if necessary (though usually if the problem was an argument, one or more people will leave anyway).

griefers are annoying but t's very rare that they actually organize to take over a server.. In my experience, it's more about the random troll than a coordinated action. 

Idk what is actually the real problem here. If the majority of players decide to kick someone, there might be a good reason. As I said, all trolls I've encountered in the forge are just lone trolls.

one question? do you play forge with randoms or with friends? cuz if you are not aware of the people in the public servers please don't comment on something you haven't experienced yourself just based in a theoretical and idealized stand point alone.

[brbrmensch]

6 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said:

griefers are annoying but t's very rare that they actually organize to take over a server.. In my experience, it's more about the random troll than a coordinated action

klei official servers before 20 days kick update had a squad of 3 willows pretty often (i think it's only one person, but still), on popular non klei servers, i used to see more burners than kickers

Spoiler

funny thing is that i was once in a party that asked freya to leave because somebody was waiting for friend (think on past weekend)

 

[TemporaryMan]

I've only played on random public servers.  Speaking from experience, interpersonal conflict and stubbornness wipe most teams while they're still in the lobby.

Oh, and I want to retract what I said about the scenario where the "elitists" actually eventually prevail, and the stubborn and disobedient new guy leaves after a several minute stand-off.  I've seen it happen all of once now, so I suppose it's not a fairy tale, it's just not particularly common.  And in the case I saw, I think it's fair to dictate the team composition in a server expressly named as a deathless server, so I'm still not particularly concerned about vote-kick being abused.

 

And as far as it being harder or more time consuming to implement vote-kick only on passworded servers, don't worry.  That part's actually trivial to do.

[FreyaMaluk]

4 hours ago, brbrmensch said:

klei official servers before 20 days kick update had a squad of 3 willows pretty often (i think it's only one person, but still), on popular non klei servers, i used to see more burners than kickers

 

haven't played on normal DST servers for a while and this is about the Forge specifically. Can you stay on topic please?

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funny thing is that i was once in a party that asked freya to leave because somebody was waiting for friend (think on past weekend)

If people ask me to leave cuz they are waiting for a friend I consider that totally ****ty, but I leave if the majority wants it, cuz playing with that bad energy is just stupid.

[Soulk]

20 hours ago, Starlogy said:

Simple solution: Passworded servers get vote kick, public servers do not get vote kick. Ez.

Thats what i said, thats the best option, on public servers the low lvl ppl die until they learn a bit, then they can try private servers.