on rooms

[chemie]

Why do mess "hall" and barracks seem to only work with a single table/bed?  With 12-24 tile size, seems you should be able to multiple?  Or am I doing something wrong (room is grey instead of being correct designation)

[The Plum Gate]

Mouse over the legend in the upper right, it should tell you the requirements.

The oxygen deodorizer is considered industrial equipment. This throws me off on the latrine, personally.

Edit,  size issues are area...might be able to skirt that with filler tiles, but ho hum.

[chemie]

area might be it; I thought it was linear

[The Plum Gate]

52 minutes ago, chemie said:

area might be it; I thought it was linear

 Once you establish a room, and then mouse over the area, it will tell you how big it is. 

[chemie]

learn something new.....Thanks

[The Plum Gate]

Just a note, the mess hall lacks the room size descriptor, the others show the actual room size. 

[Lifegrow]

The "Rooms" concept is my least favourite introduction to the game of late - or rather, its the one that made me groan with disappointment the most...

It seems we are given new high-fangled and potentially incredibly powerful machinery, i.e. petroleum generators, with an output of 2kw, but as regards our living areas, we're encouraged to make tiny rooms for our bases. I'm not sure if a simple size constraint encourages freedom of creativity - I would have much rather seen a "drag and drop mask" effect, whereby you could outline your chosen area to be, for example, a mess hall - then providing it has a door, walls, and all of the necessary buildings to qualify - then it'd be considered a mess hall. 

I only speak for myself, but if this idea of constraining development continues, before long we'll all be building the exact same layouts, the exact same bases, and getting exactly as bored as one another.

 

[Ciderblock]

21 minutes ago, Lifegrow said:

The "Rooms" concept is my least favourite introduction to the game of late - or rather, its the one that made me groan with disappointment the most...

It seems we are given new high-fangled and potentially incredibly powerful machinery, i.e. petroleum generators, with an output of 2kw, but as regards our living areas, we're encouraged to make tiny rooms for our bases. I'm not sure if a simple size constraint encourages freedom of creativity - I would have much rather seen a "drag and drop mask" effect, whereby you could outline your chosen area to be, for example, a mess hall - then providing it has a door, walls, and all of the necessary buildings to qualify - then it'd be considered a mess hall. 

I only speak for myself, but if this idea of constraining development continues, before long we'll all be building the exact same layouts, the exact same bases, and getting exactly as bored as one another.

 

I agree. Rimworld has a better system, although the behavior when a room meets more than one set of requirements (for example, a dining room with a sarcophagus in it) can be surprising sometimes.

[Saturnus]

I don't like the room mechanic, or the idea behind it, at all. Feels like just another way to encourage players into a specific strategy the devs find the best way instead of letting players do what they feel works for them. I strongly feel that with every upgrade and the more content is added that the devs also creates an avenue approach, a straitjacket strongly leading towards the "right" strategy, where it should be the exact opposite, ie. more content should make more versatile strategies possible.

[Lifegrow]

1 minute ago, Saturnus said:

I don't like the room mechanic, or the idea behind it, at all. Feels like just another way to encourage players into a specific strategy the devs find the best way instead of letting players do what they feel works for them. I strongly feel that with every upgrade and the more content is added that the devs also creates an avenue approach, a straitjacket strongly leading towards the "right" strategy, where it should be the exact opposite, ie. more content should make more versatile strategies possible.

It's because they can't fix that pesky late game "big-colony" lag  

[Saturnus]

7 minutes ago, Lifegrow said:

It's because they can't fix that pesky late game "big-colony" lag  

Well, the easy way around that would be to set a counter on the printing pod. You spawn with 3 dupes, a 4th can be spawned 3 cycles later. For every dupe spawned add one cycle to that interval. It's a fairly simple way to limit, or at least postpone the late game lag.

Would also make you take better care of your dupes in the late game it could be many cycles before he/she could be replaced.

[Lifegrow]

Just now, Saturnus said:

Well, the easy way around that would be to set a counter on the printing pod. You spawn with 3 dupes, a 4th can be spawned 3 cycles later. For every dupe spawn add one cycle to that interval. It's a fairly simple way to limit, or at least postpone the late game lag.

Or just fix the game so it doesn't run like a dogs dinner after a few cycles  

[Saturnus]

Just now, Lifegrow said:

Or just fix the game so it doesn't run like a dogs dinner after a few cycles  

Well, obviously, but I also like the counter idea actually.

[Lifegrow]

Just now, Saturnus said:

Well, obviously, but I also like the counter idea actually.

Honestly - i'd love to see a decent update that gives us no content, but just fixes a plethora of issues within the game...

"No content for a month guys, but hey, we're actually focussing on making your playing experience better, so stick with us!"

Who could possibly argue with that?

There are still a number of bugs which have been present now since initial launch.

I understand the "need" too churn out "new features" and other such gubbins to try and lure in the masses - but if the game is fundamentally broken as hell as soon as people build even a semblance of a feature-rich base, then what's the point in promoting at all ?

Meh, as you might be able to tell - this last "experimental" clusterf...release has left me somewhat dismayed with the direction the game is going. Currently sat at 1223 hours played, I thought by now I'd have some idea of what the devs had in store for us - but this last update is just confusing. I hope it gets some severe rethinking before release.

 

[Whispershade]

1 hour ago, Lifegrow said:

I only speak for myself, but if this idea of constraining development continues, before long we'll all be building the exact same layouts, the exact same bases, and getting exactly as bored as one another.

I strongly disagree. Honestly, the barracks and mess bonus is kind of minor and if you really dislike it you can completely ignore it. But it isn't that much a modification to just break up large rooms with a couple pneumatic doors. But you can still make large multi-room apartments for single dupes, single person dorms with communal eating and bath areas, or largish barracks broken up by a door here and there.  Hell you could stick dupes around the industrial machinery with a simple door between and your A-OK. If anything I think this just encourages us to use doors and by extension gives us the design challenge of how to build travel flow to avoid constantly having dupes run through heaps of doors.

In short, I don't think the variety of layout has changed all that much and has encouraged a variety of potential approaches depending on our hangups.

Fun related fact I noticed. I don't know if it is new, but Lavs have access controls.

[Saturnus]

19 minutes ago, Whispershade said:

If anything I think this just encourages us to use doors and by extension gives us the design challenge of how to build travel flow to avoid constantly having dupes run through heaps of doors.

What if I don't want to use doors but prefer water locks, or falling water curtains, or air pressure control to avoid using doors? I don't generally but the option should be open, and just as valid.

[Whispershade]

3 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

What if I don't want to use doors but prefer water locks, or falling water curtains, or air pressure control to avoid using doors? I don't generally but the option should be open, and just as valid.

Then you can make the choice to forgo the room bonuses for the sake of your aesthetic.

 

Edit: With the possible exception of medbays.  But I'm not particularly compelled that forcing sick dupes to swim through stagnant pools of water is a design choice worth preserving.

[Lifegrow]

29 minutes ago, Whispershade said:

Then you can make the choice to forgo the room bonuses for the sake of your aesthetic.

 

Edit: With the possible exception of medbays.  But I'm not particularly compelled that forcing sick dupes to swim through stagnant pools of water is a design choice worth preserving.

The first time I saw a base utilising water airlocks effectively - I was blown away by the aesthetics and creativity of the idea. Who mentioned anything about stagnant pools  

Why should I have to forego a "room benefit" mechanic just because my idea of an effective layout doesn't suit the "cookie-cutter" preset?

It's monochromatic, conformist, and as @Saturnusso aptly coined : straitjacket-esque.

Honestly, my concern is more the size constraints and building restrictions. If I want to make a luxury condo for my dupes containing bedroom, mess table, en suite shower and underfloor heating - I should be able to do just that, AND reap the benefits of all of the room bonuses for doing so, without the need to just place down random useless doors. If you build a barracks currently and then place a mess table down - you no longer have a bedroom OR a mess hall. 

 

 

[Risu]

3 hours ago, Lifegrow said:

I would have much rather seen a "drag and drop mask" effect, whereby you could outline your chosen area to be, for example, a mess hall - then providing it has a door, walls, and all of the necessary buildings to qualify - then it'd be considered a mess hall.

That's how the original region code was but I suspect they scrapped that because not everyone wants to paint their entire base.
 

[Whispershade]

24 minutes ago, Lifegrow said:

The first time I saw a base utilising water airlocks effectively - I was blown away by the aesthetics and creativity of the idea. Who mentioned anything about stagnant pools  

Why should I have to forego a "room benefit" mechanic just because my idea of an effective layout doesn't suit the "cookie-cutter" preset?

It's monochromatic, conformist, and as @Saturnusso aptly coined : straitjacket-esque.

Honestly, my concern is more the size constraints and building restrictions. If I want to make a luxury condo for my dupes containing bedroom, mess table, en suite shower and underfloor heating - I should be able to do just that, AND reap the benefits of all of the room bonuses for doing so, without the need to just place down random useless doors. If you build a barracks currently and then place a mess table down - you no longer have a bedroom OR a mess hall. 

 

 

Arguably the room bonuses aren't about what you want but your dupes expectations. I'm not finding the argument that it is particularly restrictive very compelling. If anything it gives you more interesting choices in terms of trade offs.

If your complaint is there isn't enough variation in the room types, then I feel that's a worthwhile complaint. Nothing is stopping you from having doors as room delimiters that are just always open like most modern apartments and housing. Given the plethora of possible design options that remain available, I don't see it as particularly straight-jacketed.

And water airlocks are fine, if that's what you want to do. I don't think it is a compelling feature for a med-bay, though.

[Lifegrow]

Just now, Whispershade said:

Arguably the room bonuses aren't about what you want but your dupes expectations. I'm not finding the argument that it is particularly restrictive very compelling. If anything it gives you more interesting choices in terms of trade offs.

If your complaint is there isn't enough variation in the room types, then I feel that's a worthwhile complaint. Nothing is stopping you from having doors as room delimiters that are just always open like most modern apartments and housing. Given the plethora of possible design options that remain available, I don't see it as particularly straight-jacketed.

And water airlocks are fine, if that's what you want to do. I don't think it is a compelling feature for a med-bay, though.

You've just replied to my post, and instead of taking on board what i'd said - offered generic solutions to something I'd stated I'd rather avoid.

34 minutes ago, Lifegrow said:

without the need to just place down random useless doors.

"Well now just place down some open doors boss, no problem eh?" A door in an "open" state is still a random, and possibly even more pointless door. It's not even performing the function that a door would usually aspire to be. It's now a confused door - a door that longs to be a window, or better yet, nothing at all  It's just tile space. Likewise, pneumatic doors for the sake of it are somewhat the same.

I'm not trying to be facetious, it's happening of it's own volition - however, I can't find a reason for you to defend an obvious constraint, other than to boost your post score on the forums  

If the bonuses are all about what my dupes would expect to find in their room, imagine how over the moon they'll be when they find that they can eat at the mess table, whilst shaving their legs in the shower, all the while having a cheeky shoulder massage... Why wouldn't that give me a bonus of "Epic room status : Your dupe is ecstatically drooling @ 0.5kg/s".

Finally, water airlocks are clearly not fine - else they'd be in my "conform or get nothing" list  

Joking aside - i'm commenting on the CURRENT introduction of this mechanic because I would hope that Klei would welcome feedback, since the closed testing forums are now....closed. The experimental branch is not live yet, so feedback on this teaser introduction could allow changes to be made now, so that reverting changes don't need to be made in the future. I'm not complaining to be a whiney bawlbag, i'm voicing concern at the potential constraints that this sort of mechanic introduces. 

[Le0n1des]

1 hour ago, Saturnus said:

What if I don't want to use doors but prefer water locks, or falling water curtains, or air pressure control to avoid using doors? I don't generally but the option should be open, and just as valid.

It is valid, as you still need a (at least) 2 tiles high entry... Just stick an open door inside the airlock to retain room mechanics...

[Le0n1des]

6 minutes ago, Lifegrow said:

"Well now just place down some open doors boss, no problem eh?"

Exactly! And no, the sarcasm is not lost on me

One of my personal goals playing the game is to minmax the hell out of it... A bonus I can grab for the cost of 100 copper - yes please. I'm not saying the room mechanics is perfect, but it seems to be one of the less broken things in the Oil update, as as such - resources are better spent improving the more broken stuff...

[Lifegrow]

Just now, Le0n1des said:

Exactly! And no, the sarcasm is not lost on me

One of my personal goals playing the game is to minmax the hell out of it... A bonus I can grab for the cost of 100 copper - yes please. I'm not saying the room mechanics is perfect, but it seems to be one of the less broken things in the Oil update, as as such - resources are better spent improving the more broken stuff...

This is a thread on the rooms mechanic.... it's literally called "on rooms"...

I have given feedback on various other concerns in their relevant threads too, but to ignore a mechanic that I find to be flawed whilst it's still at the developmental stage is surely half-arsed? It's got nothing to do with the material cost, it's the limitations to design that it brings.

Anyway, consider my concern voiced - I've no hankering for causing an argument, or taking on the K.F.S (Klei Fanboy Society) single handedly  

[Whispershade]

Believe it or not Lifegrow, I have had respect for your experience, knowledge and perspective of the game. We disagree on a number of issues and that's fine, but your attitude you demonstrate in the following quote to be a little unbecoming.

12 minutes ago, Lifegrow said:

I'm not trying to be facetious, it's happening of it's own volition - however, I can't find a reason for you to defend an obvious constraint, other than to boost your post score on the forums  

Forum posting scores? Really?

Why I 'defend' it is because I don't find your argument against particularly compelling, as I've said. I don't find the design constraint particularly restrictive. I wasn't trying to give you room options you've already decided you didn't want to pursue. But rather, perhaps poorly, attempting to demonstrate real life counter-part examples of how we have culture used these design options to satisfying our predilections. I see an open door much like an empty archway dividing rooms in a house or apartment. For some reason, while completely unnecessarily, we've implemented room divisions in real life.

Your argument comes across to me like, "Why do dupes have food quality bonuses? I want decadent food bonus for eating mush bars." You are basically complaining about how dupes are responding to your design choices. And I will say again, you're not prevented from building your layout as you like. But to also have the expectation that the dupes must conform their preferences to your whims is a bit of a stretch for a game that at its core is intended to pose some kind of consequence to our choices.

We disagree.  I don't know why you seem to be taking it personally.