Ambiguous Lore Curations

[The Curator]

Tired of typing up significant analyses of the lore in random threads, which generally get buried and go unacknowledged.

They shall just end up here, which is the most fitting topic section seeing as the Don't Starve Art, Music, Lore section is more for fanatic made works; and is for the base game not including A New Reign. 

 

Note that these are in a thematic order and not chronological, rarely they will mention information established in anecdotes below them.

 

 

Inference on how Maxwell abducted the other Survivors :

The fact Maxwell needed Wilson to create a portal suggests that the one who sits on the Throne, as well as Them, have very limited influence outside of their own world. And so Maxwell required Wilson to build an actual machine capable of channeling Their power.

In some ways it throws into question if it would even be possible for the others to have been brought to the world, as it is not as if they all had the scientific knowledge to create a portal. However, the fact that every character is capable of creating a Science machine and so on; suggests that perhaps Maxwell gave them all Forbidden Knowledge which allowed them to build their own gateways. And so after traversing it, they retained the abnormal ability to know how to create such devices.

The fact that only Webber mentions Maxwell so explicitly in that he lied to him, suggests in turn that Maxwell did not lie to everybody in order to get them to build a portal. He likely seduced them with promises that indeed were fulfilled. Woodie has trees to cut, Wigfrid has things to kill, Willow has things to burn. And so on. This is potentially justified even more by the lack of outburst every character shows towards being in the new world, because most of them knew this was what they were getting into.

Thus, the backstory of most of the characters can be inferred that Maxwell approached them through an obscure, indirect means which hid his identity. Told them about something they could gain by taking his gift of knowledge and using it to build a portal, and then they went through.

Woodie is one of the more vague but also suggestive of them all. One of the developers stated that Woodie is a pretty normal guy, other then the fact he talks to his ax. However, if his ax was actually sapient it would not be logical to criticize Woodie for talking to it; because it technically is a real being.

This suggests that prior to arriving in the world, Woodie still talked to his ax; when it was just a normal ax and thus talking to it would be considered abnormal. Which means something changed between the real world and the new world which made Lucy real. Perhaps the entire world is a form of dream, and that is why in it Lucy is real and Bernie can move as well. It may also be possible that some manner of enchantment occurred, whether willful or not, however the theme of nightmares makes the world being an illusion more plausible.

 

Examination of Maxwell and Charlie as villains :

Maxwell was a better villain, Charlie is a stronger villain.

Charlie has the queen of darkness far over your head stature. Which does suit the world which is designed to be about players being dropped into oblivion and then expected to survive. Charlie also displays more noticeable control over the world then Maxwell.

However, Charlie is significantly more distant from players. Little is known or prominent on her identity, her behavior. Her presence on the throne is more comparative to that of a figurehead then anything else. She is in control, but at no point does it really feel like she is your real enemy. She is just the one currently in charge of your Hell.

Maxwell however was significantly better in style. He was the manipulator, the deceiver. He personally finds a way to transport the survivors into the world, he personally taunts them and appears to do so. He even erects statues of himself in the world. He is a dapper, sneering, intelligent and miserable person who wanted happiness and was given power over the world instead. And so he used it to torment others in order to find purpose. He has a very fleshed out and profound biography as a person, and his place as king of the world was both tragic and stylish.

His role as a confidence artist is thematically much more in sync with the fundamentals of the game, Charlie is far too grand and regal for the throne. Maxwell was just a man given power, a pawn, and he actively felt like a real character geared for his role. Charlie does not even remotely feel like a person or a character. Just the icon the plot tells you is your current opponent. She is simply just his mandatory successor. Whether or not her other identity is from Them, or is actually a split personality is the only dynamic element to her character. Otherwise she is just a replacement for the real villain in order to keep the plot rolling.

Maxwell as the original villain was designed to exactly suit the plot. Charlie is just his substitute, who was given a regal theme and alternate identity to make her seem more new and interesting.

 

Examination of Charlie as the current villain :

Charlie's pathology in this situation suggests she probably knows near to nothing. Their influence on Maxwell was using him as a pawn, they gave him power and it made him capture and torment others of his own will. For Their entertainment additionally. Charlie however has zero investment or background in this world because she was merely caught in crossfire. The fact she has appeared at all is likely because They did not want Wilson on the throne, and so They resorted to using Charlie as a tool in order to maintain control over the world because she was already accessible to them.

In all, it suggests Charlie is almost completely under Their control because they needed her as a medium to uphold command. Her behavior is likely either caused directly by Them, or she is essentially being poisoned.

Her behavior in the opening scene suggests that part of her was already afflicted by Them prior to her emergence, and the fact the normal her displays power over the shadows means she likely was in purgatory for some time during which this all happened to her. When she began to resist the shadow half of herself, it merged with her completely to create a single dominant being. Which is essentially, her body and Their mind.

 

The Survivors current goal :

From Wilson's point of view he believed he had to defeat Maxwell to escape, which led to him discovering that Maxwell was just a pawn.

Interpreting the game progression as relative plot, the survivors are very clearly aiming their exploration towards Them. With both Wilson and Maxwell on the field, everybody obviously knows about Them to some degree. Which is why they are actually delving into the Caves, then Ruins, then Atrium even though it would be obviously safer to just stay on the surface. Because they are trying to search for Them and a weakness. Instead of trying to find the shadow throne again and defeat Charlie, because Maxwell and Wilson already know it will not help them.

The most significant problem is just that so long as They are around, the survivors have no chance of finding or building any means of escape.

 

The Leader of Them :

The theme of using limbs as an extension of Their will is consistent. Maxwell and Charlie are pulled into the Codex by limbs, limbs attack survivor campfires, and limbs also pulled Wilson into the world. While some of Them do come out into the open, they are clearly aberrations that exist in nightmares. The presence of actual hands, which are normally a human feature, and the fact that in both their cinematic appearances they are paired; suggests that they likely have a consistent owner. Thematically, it would make more sense that this being is unique, and likely the strongest of Them if they have an actually stable humanoid form. This is amplified by the fact that in every canon appearance of the hands, they are performing exceptionally important tasks to Their will. Abducting survivors, or trying to kill them.

However it should be noted there is a distinct difference between shadow Charlie's arm, and the thin limbs that have been around since Maxwell and Charlie were abducted.

There is also a second theme of a tall figure. This figure appears sometimes at campfires, appeared in Maxwell's flat, hallucinations caused by the Fuelweaver; and can be seen between the film reels of Maxwell's Final Act. The figure is also the closest of Them to being humanoid. By its more structured towering stature, having a prominent head and the outline of hair.

Finally, these two themes are also consistently seen together. Both the limbs and the tall figure can be found at campfires, the limbs and tall figure are seen in Maxwell's flat, and the tall figure also can be seen between frames right before Maxwell and Charlie are pulled into the Codex. The figure is a single identifiable character.

Thus, in all, it can be presumed that the tall figure watching over campfires is either an abductor among Them; or more likely due to its significant form is Their leader. The fact they are humanoid alongside the obscure nature of the world, the theme of nightmares and dreams could be inferred to mean that they, as a humanoid, were the original being who started everything. Seeing as they are the only being among Them with the appearance of a realistic being, meaning that if they are not just a nightmare, they are potentially the oldest living member of the plot. 

Which descends into the possibilities that they were a one of the Ancients who caused the disaster which spawned the nightmares, or the entire world itself may be generated from their own mind and they themself are some manner of magically ascended human. Again linking back to the possibility of a disaster causing the nightmares to emerge.

 

The Leader of Them Elaborated :

Nightmares are subjective. Just as the survivors can manipulate nightmare fuel on an amateurish level to craft equipment and enchanted jewelry, the Fuelweaver is the expert.

This references the idea that the nightmare fuel itself is an ambiguous substance subjective to its user. This actually supports another previous anecdote explaining the shadow Watcher may be Their leader. If nightmare fuel is ambiguous, as it clearly has shown to be, then that means it needs a source to mold it. Take note of how the shadows are all very misshapen and rounded in their form, like nightmare fuel itself, they are very visibly just minions shaped from the fuel itself.

But which shadow is not, the shadow Watcher. The shadow Watcher has actual hair, and a stature, which is not something any of the other shadows even remotely have. The night hands, which are presumed to be associated with the Watcher as well, are also the only other shadows that have a solid looking form. Rigid and shapely.

Furthermore, Maxwell also specifically says They only watch. The shadows actively try to kill the survivors, which means the shadows are not even Them. The only thing the shadow Watcher is seen to do is observe, like Maxwell says.

They may not even be a group, but a single being which Maxwell refers to because They have no known gender.

The Watcher has been referenced for a long time, which honestly makes their significance irrefutable. Appearing in Maxwell's flat, abducting him and Charlie. Even now, the developers have the Watcher appear when the Fuelweaver takes over the survivors mind.

There are more then one however, which perhaps may mean there are multiple Watchers. Or they are illusions of the original.

Actually it makes even more sense. Mind control is an established connection. If the Watcher is the source of nightmares, seeing them as a hallucination while being connected to the nightmares is a sensible occurrence with psychology based magic.

 

Differences of Them and the Shadows :

The foundation of this theory is that Maxwell explicitly states that They only watch. Which means whoever They are, they do nothing but observe. Maxwell has upheld this statement without recourse, despite knowing that shadows do attack the survivors. Which means, when he said They only watch; he knew exactly who he was referring to and they indeed only watch. If the shadows were a part of Them, Maxwell would have obviously changed his statement seeing as only some of the shadows observe and so a differentiation would need to be made.

Mr. Skits is just another generic misshapen shadow creature, clearly forged from nightmare fuel. Him only observing could potentially be because he is too weak to attack, or is fearful. Just because Mr. Skirts observes, it does not mean he is automatically a part of Them; it could just be coincidence.

The Watcher is exempt from this because the Watcher is the only shadow who does not look like they were made of nightmare fuel. The only one, which raises the question of how they exist if they are not borne of the fuel. And they happen to be the only one that looks like the silhouette of a real organism. Furthermore, the Watcher has been referenced multiple times now at critical points of the plot and is still being referenced now with the Fuelweaver.

A final point towards Them being a single being, the Fuelweaver specifically shouts Curse Their Name in his dialogue. Name is singular, and so They are either a singular being or a group sharing one name. The former being a far more common occurrence of this. The Fuelweaver also says the name Metheus, the ancient Greek word for thought, in the same vein of dialogue.

 

The Clockworks :

Thematically, on every level, the Clockworks bear no logical relation to the ancients who people believe created them.

The ancients built nearly everything from Thulecite, and had a very particular smooth and well cut shape to their architecture. The clockworks look like modern steam-punk inventions. The exaggeration of the horse-like faces on the Knight and the Rook, the bulging eye and dome cranium of the bishop, that style of design is absolutely nothing like anything the ancients have. And the metal as well looks nothing like what the ancients use, which makes even less sense since if they were using such a powerful material as Thulecite to build cosmetic statues because they had so much of it; why would they not use it to reinforce their own military. Only damaged clockworks drop Thulecite, fragments, and they are only found in the Ruins specifically. So the fact damaged clockworks are associated with Thulecite proves nothing because its presence is not even consistent and thus it is clearly not an actual material they use.

The technology as well, is nothing like that which the ancients use. The Ruins are extremely primitive, bare bones areas. Yet the Clockworks are made of, wires and clockwork. Why would the ancients build extremely complex machines, when they had magic to defend themselves. And why would this clockwork be used nowhere else in any of their civilization. The existence of clockwork in such a primitive, mythological and old society is completely illogical.

Which suggests that the clockworks came from another source, which is suggested to be far more modern and scientific then the ancients. Especially since the clockworks are based off chess; a surface world human game. Not an ancient magical horned subterranean being race. Meaning the clockworks were potentially used to invade the ancients, or at least the Ruins they left behind. However, because the clockworks in the Ruins are damaged, and do not fight with the nightmares, means that they likely did fight with something. Which in turns means, they probably invaded while the ancients were still there.

 

Further points towards the Clockworks :

Maxwell could not possibly have been the source of the Clockworks as the Ancients have been long dead by now, and they are the only known thing the Clockworks in the Ruins could have fought to become broken. Meaning the Clockworks fought them ages ago, far longer then Maxwell was imprisoned. However, the more modern design of the Clockworks contradicts the likelihood that they fought with an ancestral society many ages ago; long before modern human societies had become adept at even basic machinery. Thus, their existence is a completely anomaly.

If the Clockworks were with the ancients then it makes no sense why they are damaged. They do not fight with anything in the Ruins, not even nightmares, so there is absolutely no other known source for them to have fought with other then the ancients.

In terms of how the clockworks could have beaten the ancients. The magic the ancients use is mostly utility, not offensive, and their bodies are not even located in the Ruins. Their remains are scattered across the caves as fossil fuels. They were potentially driven out seeing as their only real equipment was basic Thulecite armaments, and the clockworks could have swarmed them. Especially if they were already being addled by nightmares, which ignore the clockworks.

Even if the ancients were given forbidden knowledge by the shadows in order to create the clockworks, it still does not make sense why the clockworks were at least not outfitted with Thulecite for better equipment. And the ancients, are ancient, it would be illogical for the shadows in the past to be able to give them technological knowledge which even in the present is still unrealistic.

Still ignoring all the original points explaining how the clockworks make no sense in affiliation to the ancients and; the clockworks do not fight with the shadows. They completely ignore each other. There is no evidence or reason to assume they ever would have, if they do not now. It could be interpreted that the clockworks were possessed to turn against the ancients, however that still does not explain how out of place the clockworks are to begin with. And while clockworks in Ruins show no real signs of being possessed.

The existence of shadow versions of the clockworks is an interesting connection, however it is completely ambiguous at the moment and has no definitive connections to anything else in the lore.

 

Even more points on the Clockworks :

What does not make sense however is that the Damaged Clockworks only fight nightmares if the player revives them. They even will attack the ancient guardian, who is seemingly supposed to be on the ancients side. Maxwell, who potentially reconstructed some of them and brought them to the surface, was able to make the clockworks attack survivors because they were his enemies.

Their allegiance is entirely subjective, and the only solid example that there is of what their original allegiance was is the Damaged Clockworks still roaming the Ruins. And they do not attack nightmares. The only way to really confirm if the Damaged Clockworks are possessed is if the player-constructed ones have a drop table. If the developers coded them to actually drop something on death, and it does not include nightmare fuel, that means nightmare fuel was not originally an ingredient. And if the clockworks were designed to fight nightmares it would make sense that they would not use fuel, and so because the damaged ones have it that means they are being controlled by the nightmares. Which is why they do not attack them, or anything else, except the survivors.

But only if the reanimated ones have a drop table, which specifically does not have nightmare fuel. Otherwise, because there are no overt signs of it, there is no way to tell if the clockworks are behaving as intended.

 

Examination of the Ancient Fuelweaver :

The dialogue basically reinforces the classic concept of, the ancients directly caused a disaster which allowed nightmares to become real; or the ancients were the first to fall prey to them when They arrived. Although the former is more likely.

However the skeleton is obviously not an insectoid or crustacean akin being. But, as bad as For Honor is, Apollyon's statement of sometimes a civilizations architecture; is simply just art, is very true. So the ancients may be absolutely nothing like their statues. Their bodies are nowhere to be found either. Although, the fact that the skeleton says My city; is a potential reference to them being the original head of the ancients. It is possible for a denizen to affiliate themself with their home in the same manner, but statistically usually the leader is the one who will claim ownership in speech over a land or culture.

It can be noted as well how, the closer the odd skeleton is to the ancients threshold when it is revived; the more literate and conscious it is.

 

Musing on the Atrium Portal :

Geographically the Atrium portal makes little sense. The source of the nightmares is referenced to be the heart of the Ruins, and the nightmares spawn from fissures leading deep underground. It would not make sense for there to be a portal serving as the doorway to a location on the same physical plain, however that is a subjective choice of design. The significance of the portal lies in question because of this.

The Fuelweaver being more coherent at the portal does prove how significant it is, and it would justify why the Fuelweaver is even hostile to the survivors. The Fuelweaver questions nothing, and immediately becomes aggressive. Which could infer that he is assuming the survivors are trying to meddle with the safeguards the ancients put in place.

However, the Fuelweaver mentions just as the nightmare cycle hints to that They are coming regardless. So, that contradicts the idea that They need the survivors to do something for them like unlocking the portal, if They already will be freed on their own. Meaning the portal may not lead to Their domain. They also try consistently to kill the survivors, which would be hindering Their own plot if they needed the survivors to help them.

At this point, it is established that They and the shadows are different beings. The source of the nightmare fuel has been stated already to be in the heart of the ruins. The plot is currently at the Atrium Portal, but it seems illogical for there to be a portal to transport one between two areas on the same planet. From the Atrium to the heart, they could just build stairs. Although teleportation is an established ability the ancients had access to; so perhaps they just preferred to use it.

The Atrium Portal can then be assumed to either lead to the heart of the nightmares, the physical source of chaos, or perhaps Their world, the intellectual source of chaos. These can be expressly treated as two different locations now that we know the shadows, born of nightmare fuel, are not actually Them.

This could also justify why there is a contradiction. Some people believe They want the survivors to unlock the Atrium, in order to serve some unknown agenda They have. But this is contradicted by the fact that the shadows try to kill survivors. But now we know, the shadows are just nightmare fuel. The shadows may not be directly controlled by the Watcher, and may be powered by other stray sources of consciousness or energy like the heart. And so even though the Watcher is pro-nightmare, the nightmares may indirectly hinder Their desire to have the Atrium unlocked.

The nightmares may not even be the center of the plot, if they are simply just an obscure resource the ancients found deep within the earth. 

The real crux of the plot is who the Watcher(s) actually is and why They are so involved in this entire event. As They are now known to not be synonymous with the nightmare fuel, and it is simply a resource both the ancients and They interacted with. The idea of Them being an actual being and not just another nightmare could also explain why the Clockworks are so unlike the ancients other creations. Perhaps the Clockworks were Their army, as currently the Clockworks are a huge anomaly in the plot.

 

Interpretation of where the Ancients went :

The Fuelweaver is likely what they actually were, horned beings, and the statues are either just artwork or renditions of something they saw and or worshiped. Seeing as the Fuelweaver makes explicit references to being the leader, or at least a high ranking member, of the ancients.

This is further supported by the fact that you can find fossil fragments buried all around the caves, and if you reconstruct them they form more then one different skeleton. Not just the Fuelweaver can be made, but other nameless skeletons as well. This can be interpreted to be that the ancients were scattered across the caves, possibly after the clockworks invaded or the nightmares spiraled out of control, and their remains ended up being buried in the earth. There are frequent tremors in the caves, it would not be difficult for their bodies to become submerged by falling rubble. And thus, you can find pieces of them all over; and when you rebuild their remains you can design several different models of the ancients because the remains are that of multiple beings and not just one.

Even if the other models of the odd skeleton as just mis-constructed alternate versions, the fossil fragments all can be used to repair the odd skeleton. Which means they are all bones of the same species, which would align more consistently across different skeletons. So taking out the multiple skeletons, the fact they all can be used to construct the odd skeleton proves they belong to the same species. They are all the remains of ancients.

The Fuelweaver, who is potentially their leader or a very powerful sorcerer among them, happens to be the only one you can resurrect. Possibly because of his power. And his consciousness after being revived specifically scales based on how close he is to the Ruins when it happens.

The similarities between the Ancient Guaridan, and the Fuelweaver, suggest they may belong to the same species. Maxwell states when examining the Guardian, how much the nightmare fuel has changed them. It being well known that the use of nightmare fuel played a large part in the downfall of the ancients. This can be interpreted to mean that the Ancient Guardian is indeed one of the ancients, possibly the last living one; and their appearance and behavior has potentially been morphed by time and the nightmare fuel.

 

Metheus :

One of the rewards from the Metheus puzzle is called The Ancient King's chest. This means the Ancients did have a hierarchy. A king.

On the murals depicted in the Metheus puzzle, two prominent Ancients are shown. One wielding a staff, and another a torch. The torch wielding Ancient also has a more feminine demeanor compared to the one wielding a staff. This could mean they were the original king and queen of the ancients.

This is further supported by the final mural, which depicts the staff wielding ancient sitting on a throne sobbing. A throne, and typically the king is the one who sits on the most prominent throne in the court room.

The cane skin that is rewarded from the puzzle bears a fantastic resemblance to the king's staff, just as the tragic torch bears resemblance to the queen's torch. The cane is given to the player in the same sequence as the chest skin, and a cane is put into the chest in order to receive the new can skin. This links these skins directly to the ancient monarchy.

Metheus has taken heed, it says when you give the chest the correct offering. The offering to the Ancient King's chest. This could mean the King is Metheus, the owner of the chest. The king is the last ancient seen alive in the murals. And if Metheus is taking heed, it means he is still alive in some regard. This could mean, the Metheus puzzle is literally calling on the attention of the still living Ancient King.

One thing to note as well, this hierarchy parallels with the theme of chess in Don't Starve. Just as Maxwell was a previous king. And Charlie is the new queen. Which, without substantiating, it is a wonder if perhaps the Ancient Queen who died fighting the shadows is now actually one of the villains. Perhaps she is the Shadow Watcher, or the shadow-half of Charlie herself.

 

Chess Piece Implications :

It seems there is an unusual amount of lore actually referenced by the chess statues.

The Bishop, Rook and Knight are all personified as clockworks which justifies the existence of the statues.

The Queen, King and Pawn however do not have a clockwork representation, because they are already embodied.

Maxwell is of course the incarnation of the King, and he is even referenced directly as one.

Charlie is referenced to be the Queen. Wilson says "Hmm... Looks Familiar" when examining the statue, which is ironic considering that he is the only one who has directly seen Charlie other then Maxwell. Maxwell comments that "Must everything be about my shortcomings" which could be interpreted as him referencing when he was dethroned and replaced. Finally, Wickerbottom mentions how strategically useful the Queen piece is, which is ironic considering that Charlie has been far more useful to Them then Maxwell was. Which parallels to how much more the Queen piece can move compared to the King.

And the rest of the survivors are Pawns. Wilson and Wendy make casual references to the idea however it directly parallels with the plot. More importantly Wickerbottom comments that "Pawns that journey to the seat of power can be quite dangerous" which symbolizes the fact that Wilson, a pawn, was able to cross the board and ascend to temporary king in place of Maxwell. Which is a likely reference to the Promotion rule in Chess, which in simplified Checkers directly involves a Pawn becoming a King.

The concept also back-dates to the Ancients who had a King, a Queen, and of course Pawns. Which may be a pattern repeating itself on purpose for whatever reason. The main problem still is that it makes no sense how They knew enough about machinery and Chess to teach the Ancients how to build the Clockworks in the first place. Which raises the question of how They learned about machinery and Chess to begin with.

 

Differentiations in the scent of the Shadow Thurible :

Nightmares are subjective, just how Nightmare Fuel has no actual shape but the survivors can give it one by morphing it into equipment. But this is obviously a highly amateurish level of control seeing as the Fuelweaver confirms that the ancients had some form of established system for manipulating it.

The reason why They have independent shapes is because they all share a consistent source, they are not generated by the survivors but by the source of nightmares deep underground. It is also why the shadows can only attack insane survivors because insanity is closer to their element, and so outside of being near the source of nightmares they need mediums to interact with the world. Which is a consistent theme that They have a very selective spectrum of influence which obeys rules.

The Shadow Thurible is potentially just nightmare fuel, being burned. It has no specific conduit or source for its properties to be founded off of; and so it only acquires them when a subjective medium is in proximity. Like the survivors.

 

The Theme of Diverse Psychology and Wigfrid :

The survivors all, mostly, share a consistent theme of mental diversity. Wolfgang is a coward, Wickerbottom has insomnia, Willow has pyromania, WX78 is potentially masquerading as a robot, Wendy is extremely morose and depressed, Webber lives inside a spider and Wes is possibly a mute seeing as in older times, a mute would have trouble finding employment; so why not become a mime.

Webber more explicitly, has multiple personalities. He randomly refers to himself as plural, and even has fluctuating opinions. He can't be talking about the spider he is inside because he specifically says "Spiders understand us". Us is being referred to separately from spiders, meaning us is not the spider he is inside. And it is already a spider anyway, so there would be no sense in pointing out other spiders understand it.

This is likely because people with unusual minds, have unusual minds, and their lack of higher sanity thresholds or normal thinking makes them more susceptible to the shadows.

Wilson though, maybe he is just hiding something unusual. Or he is generally just an exile like Maxwell.

Wigfrid however is potentially the most unique out of all them. She does not display any overt signs of being unusual, because behaving like a valkyrie is practically her standard. However it opens up many possibilities. As a performance artist, she could not be a valkyrie all the time. It is highly unlikely she performed the same act over and over, even in a self-run business that would eventually lead to quality of product issues. And, functioning in the real world as a valkyrie would also lead to many issues. Especially in older times where asylums were just torture prisons, Wigfrid likely would have ended up in one very quickly is she ran around screaming Valhalla.

There are multiple personality complexities which could explain her behavior. Perhaps she becomes incapable of telling the difference between herself and her role when she performs an act, and the valkyrie happened to be the last role she played. Or maybe, she retains every role she performs as a permanent identity.

While it could be claimed that she may still be acting, the fact she physically has the characteristics of her role even though she is a relatively average sized woman means on some level she actually believes she is a valkyrie. And the sheer will of her mind, or adrenaline, grants her the strength to validate her believed identity in the physical world.

[The Curator]

Extra post, should the original reach a character limit.

Shameless plugs to fill the void.

[The Curator]

Final extra just incase post.

[Vixrotre]

Regarding to the "Villain", it really made me wonder... what now? From my point of view the main goal of "Don't Starve" is getting home- you're stuck in some weird place with monsters, the darkness can kill you, obtaining food (from a character's point of view) is hard, the home you make for yourself gets invaded by giant creatures that want to kill you few times a year, every single year.

From my pov, in DS, you want to get to Maxwell at the end of the Adventure Mode, so you can somehow make him send you back home, as you were made to believe that he's the god of this realm. But it turns out he's just another prisoner. Sitting on the throne doesn't allow you to create an exit, it's a worse trap than the whole DS world itself. You don't have to worry about sanity or hunger, but you can't physically move, you're forced to sit and listen to one tune playing over and over, on loop, as you wait for some brave idiot to take your place and free you from your misery, a misery so great you'd rather be dead than live like this.

Does Charlie being on a throne make her a villain, an opponent you have to defeat? What could you possibly gain from it? NO ONE wants to sit on this throne, you don't become a god, you become a prisoner. Maxwell wasn't getting people into the realm to torture them, he was hoping one of them would free him from his fate. He, being on the throne the longest, knows you can't free yourself of DS world with its power, not with Them having control over you, giving you the power of the throne.

By getting Charlie off the throne, you have to take her place instead. Not to mention that Charlie herself is a victim in all of this. Caught in crossfire because of Maxwell's "magic show", possesed by... something, unable to take control over her actions, her body, her own mind. If defeating Charlie was part of the gameplay and lore, you most likely wouldn't do it to kill her, but to free her, take pity on her, like you did with Maxwell if you got the true ending of the "old reign".

The real villain, or villains, would be Them. And no one has clear knowledge of who They are, or if you even can defeat them, or what would happen if they were defeated- would DS world cease to exist and you'd go back to the real world, or would everything die with you trapped inside?

[The Curator]

1 hour ago, Vixrotre said:

Regarding to the "Villain", it really made me wonder... what now? From my point of view the main goal of "Don't Starve" is getting home- you're stuck in some weird place with monsters, the darkness can kill you, obtaining food (from a character's point of view) is hard, the home you make for yourself gets invaded by giant creatures that want to kill you few times a year, every single year.

The real villain, or villains, would be Them. And no one has clear knowledge of who They are, or if you even can defeat them, or what would happen if they were defeated- would DS world cease to exist and you'd go back to the real world, or would everything die with you trapped inside?

Well from Wilson's point of view he believed he had to defeat Maxwell to escape, which led to him discovering that Maxwell was just a pawn. Maxwell however enjoyed what he did very thoroughly, if his behavior in the Forbidden Knowledge scene was not any hint.

Interpreting the game progression as relative plot, the survivors are very clearly aiming their exploration towards Them. With both Wilson and Maxwell on the field, everybody obviously knows about Them to some degree. Which is why they are actually delving into the Caves, then Ruins, then Atrium even though it would be obviously safer to just stay on the surface. Because they are trying to search for Them and a weakness. Instead of trying to find the shadow throne again, because Maxwell and Wilson already know it will not help them.

Whether or not the world would implode if They were defeated just depends. If the world is some kind of illusion, and the survivors aren't actually there, then they'd probably be brought back when it is dispelled. If the world is an unnatural construct, destroying Them may cause it to either fall apart or just stay the same.

The most significant problem is just that so long as They are around, the survivors have no chance of finding or building any means of escape. 

[disies]

I think only Wilson build a portal. Why make more than just one? Wilson is a scientist, he has the curiosity and knowledge to build and make thinks others would not. Maxwell just gave him the information Wilson needed for something outstanding and of course Wilson could not resist. I think Maxwell lured the others to this portal with promises or whatnot..

It's just a small detail for me.. I love the Don't Starve lore and all those theories

[Asparagus]

8 hours ago, The Curator said:

Only damaged clockworks drop Thulecite, fragments, and they are only found in the Ruins specifically.

Maxwell knew of the horrors of the underground and sealed them in hence "plugged sink holes".

Maxwell:

Quote

 

Plugged Sinkhole- "I plugged it a long time ago."

Sinkhole- "That was not a good idea!"

 

But that's not just it, see Maxwell did not "invent" these clockworks but instead, adopted them would support the argument of why the clockworks found in the ruins can drop thulecite/thulecite fragments and the ones created by Maxwell do not which is further implied by his quote on the damaged rook:

Quote

Damaged Rook- "The builders have left it in a state of abandonment."

"The builders"; he is not referring to himself... there were others who built them and by the location these are found in, we are safe to assume that these were created by the ancients somewhat implied by the fact that they have the ability to actually fight off the nightmares:

Accounting the fact that the clockworks are the only other things that can actively hurt the nightmares (actively as in not fires, rocks falling from the ceiling, etc.) and the fact that they are found in the Military Biome would make for a good assumption that these were being developed to fight off a threat...

8 hours ago, The Curator said:

In terms of how the clockworks could have beaten the ancients. The magic the ancients use is mostly utility, not offensive, and their bodies are not even located in the Ruins.

This would not be the case in that they can make weapons made from thulecite, remember:

1. The Thulecite Crown - can make a protective barrier that not even nightmares can bypass
2. Thulecite Club - can summon shadow tentacles for added damage
3. Thulecite Armor - a dapper armor that combats not only physical damage but also insanity (in that it provides a small sanity regen)

Looking at Maxwell's examination of the Thulecite Medalion...

Quote

Thulecite Medallion (min)- "The heart of the city is still."

Even before DST, "the heart of the city"... was already something he was referring to... I know Klei may seem to be making things up as they go along, but they may also have already planned out the plot (from start to finish) of the game... further implied by the fact that they first released "A New Reign" with a different, more atmospheric musical score from the one we see in the main menu.

<iframe src="https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Qhe0nSovCgdG95M1JvLXdQdGM/preview" width="640" height="480"></iframe>

A more dark and foreboding theme... (I kinda liked this better)

8 hours ago, The Curator said:

Maxwell as the original villain was designed to exactly suit the plot. Charlie is just his substitute, who was given a regal theme and alternate identity to make her seem more new and interesting.

In terms of villains suiting the plot, yes, Maxwell WAS suited in that the initial game was made to give off the feeling of abandonment, that of despair of being alone... the few meager things that will aid you were sometimes not enough to keep you alive... now quoting myself from another thread:

Quote

And how does Charlie fit into this? My guess, her all-knowing smile... the fact that her two sides, the Shadow and the Human have become one... she has achieved total clarity... her actions are not random... she is actively changing the game so to speak... to prepare the puppets/pieces for a grand battle... she is equipping them for war... the portal summons this world's survivors to be its champions... a band of lost souls... an army of Wolfgangs, Wigfrids, Wickerbottoms, Wendy's...she pulls them in... preparing them for battle... providing weaponry, tools, and crafts... O__O

This is ofcourse, hypothetical, but why would she, all-powerful that she is, not make more things that will kill off the players for THEIR entertainment? My guess would be that these things that she has made are a distraction... not for the puppets, but for THEM... she gave the players pets, but also new threats, new items, new weapons... and also revealed to us the existence of the atrium... as you have stated:

8 hours ago, The Curator said:

When she began to resist the shadow half of herself, it merged with her completely to create a single dominant being. Which is essentially, her body and Their mind.

Yes (as I also stated this in another post). But not necessarily THEIR "mind", but "will"... Though we may also argue that THEY are controlling Her so the players uncover the secrets of the Atrium and most likely bring forth more nightmares through the portal... 

[The Curator]

4 minutes ago, Asparagus said:

"The builders"; he is not referring to himself... there were others who built them and by the location these are found in, we are safe to assume that these were created by the ancients somewhat implied by the fact that they have the ability to actually fight off the nightmares:

Accounting the fact that the clockworks are the only other things that can actively hurt the nightmares (actively as in not fires, rocks falling from the ceiling, etc.) and the fact that they are found in the Military Biome would make for a good assumption that these were being developed to fight off a threat...

Yes (as I also stated this in another post). But not necessarily THEIR "mind", but "will"... Though we may also argue that THEY are controlling Her so the players uncover the secrets of the Atrium and most likely bring forth more nightmares through the portal... 

What does not make sense however is that the Damaged Clockworks only fight nightmares if the player revives them. They even will attack the ancient guardian, who is seemingly supposed to be on the ancients side. Maxwell, who potentially reconstructed some of them and brought them to the surface, was able to make the clockworks attack survivors because they were his enemies.

Their allegiance is entirely subjective, and the only solid example that there is of what their original allegiance was is the Damaged Clockworks still roaming the Ruins. And they do not attack nightmares. The only way to really confirm if the Damaged Clockworks are possessed is if the player-constructed ones have a drop table. If the developers coded them to actually drop something on death, and it does not include nightmare fuel, that means nightmare fuel was not originally an ingredient. And if the clockworks were designed to fight nightmares it would make sense that they would not use fuel, and so because the damaged ones have it that means they are being controlled by the nightmares. Which is why they do not attack them, or anything else, except the survivors.

But only if the reanimated ones have a drop table, which specifically does not have nightmare fuel. Otherwise, because there are no overt signs of it, there is no way to tell if the clockworks are behaving as intended.

 

And yes, the fact that Charlie intervenes on killing the Fuelweaver means that They actually want the survivors to delve further into the Ruins. Which logically means, there is probably no weakness They have to be found there but actually a means to make Them stronger; which They want the survivors to accidentally activate.

[Asparagus]

31 minutes ago, The Curator said:

What does not make sense however is that the Damaged Clockworks only fight nightmares if the player revives them. They even will attack the ancient guardian, who is seemingly supposed to be on the ancients side. Maxwell, who potentially reconstructed some of them and brought them to the surface, was able to make the clockworks attack survivors because they were his enemies.

Keep in mind that these are "broken" clockworks in that they are malfunctioning. Logically, they would be in allegiance with the ones that created them by programming.

Regarding the Ancient Guardian, let's look at more of Maxwell's quotes (quoting the official Wiki):

Quote

 

The Ancient Guardian is a product of prolonged exposure to Nightmare Fuel, as referenced by Maxwell in his examination quote : "My my, the fuel has changed you."

• This also indicates Maxwell knew the Ancient Guardian from before its transformation. While examining the Guardian's Horn, he mourns his death and calls him a friend.

asd

 

From this small snippet, we can tell that the Guardian is:

• A corrupted version of an ancient and therefore the now broken clockworks (taking into account that they ARE broken hence will be malfunctioning) do not recognize ally from foe except others of the same make (i.e. other clockworks; with the exception of the reckless behavior of the Rook) let alone a hypothetical former "ally" that is now changed by nightmare fuel.
• Or it was an acquaintance of Maxwell's; not necessarily to be equated as "human" but maybe a creature that Maxwell has bonded with. This would also mean that Maxwell has found a living creature that was part of the Ancient Civilization WHICH could mean any or a combination of the following:
  • The creature has a long lifespan
  • The events that triggered the cataclysm that caused the ancients to disappear was fairly recent to that of Maxwell's reign
  • Time moves differently in their world
  • The "dust and void" Maxwell was referring to at the end of Adventure mode was the result of the Nightmares taking over the world that the Ancient Civilization inhabited and had completely destroyed it and they are now bored yet they cannot leave themselves...

Regarding the last thought, what if as a last ditch effort, the Ancients (the Weaver), seeing that there is no hope for them, sealed the Nightmares in this realm by way of deactivating the Atrium. Then, THEY, being powerless to open the portal, destroyed the world and all that inhabit it? That would give an alternative to the theory on why the Weaver wants the portal closed... He is keeping THEM at bay by keeping the portal closed so THEY can't summon reinforcements through the portal and also to stop THEM from leaving...

And so, resigning to the situation wherein THEY can't escape, they devise a plan to bring in humans, corporeal beings that COULD open the Atrium... leading up to what we have now... But as for Charlie's TRUE motivation, all we can do is speculate... is she Friend or Foe, good or bad... even maybe Chaotic Neutral? O__O

**cue dramatic outro**

[The Curator]

1 hour ago, Asparagus said:

Keep in mind that these are "broken" clockworks in that they are malfunctioning. Logically, they would be in allegiance with the ones that created them by programming.

Regarding the Ancient Guardian, let's look at more of Maxwell's quotes (quoting the official Wiki):

From this small snippet, we can tell that the Guardian is:

• A corrupted version of an ancient and therefore the now broken clockworks (taking into account that they ARE broken hence will be malfunctioning) do not recognize ally from foe except others of the same make (i.e. other clockworks; with the exception of the reckless behavior of the Rook) let alone a hypothetical former "ally" that is now changed by nightmare fuel.
• Or it was an acquaintance of Maxwell's; not necessarily to be equated as "human" but maybe a creature that Maxwell has bonded with. This would also mean that Maxwell has found a living creature that was part of the Ancient Civilization WHICH could mean any or a combination of the following:
  • The creature has a long lifespan
  • The events that triggered the cataclysm that caused the ancients to disappear was fairly recent to that of Maxwell's reign
  • Time moves differently in their world
  • The "dust and void" Maxwell was referring to at the end of Adventure mode was the result of the Nightmares taking over the world that the Ancient Civilization inhabited and had completely destroyed it and they are now bored yet they cannot leave themselves...

Regarding the last thought, what if as a last ditch effort, the Ancients (the Weaver), seeing that there is no hope for them, sealed the Nightmares in this realm by way of deactivating the Atrium. Then, THEY, being powerless to open the portal, destroyed the world and all that inhabit it? That would give an alternative to the theory on why the Weaver wants the portal closed... He is keeping THEM at bay by keeping the portal closed so THEY can't summon reinforcements through the portal and also to stop THEM from leaving...

And so, resigning to the situation wherein THEY can't escape, they devise a plan to bring in humans, corporeal beings that COULD open the Atrium... leading up to what we have now... But as for Charlie's TRUE motivation, all we can do is speculate... is she Friend or Foe, good or bad... even maybe Chaotic Neutral? O__O

**cue dramatic outro**

The shape of the Guardian does bear resemblance to the other odd skeletons, age and exposure to the fuel may account for the dissimilarities.

Geographically the Atrium portal makes little sense however. The source of the nightmares is referenced to be the heart of the Ruins, and the nightmares spawn from fissures leading deep underground. It would not make sense for there to be a portal serving as the doorway to a location on the same physical plain, however that is a subjective choice of design.

The Fuelweaver being more coherent at the portal does prove how significant it is, and it would justify why the Fuelweaver is even hostile to the survivors. The Fuelweaver questions nothing, and immediately becomes aggressive. Which could infer that he is assuming the survivors are trying to meddle with the safeguards the ancients put in place.

However, the Fuelweaver mentions just as the nightmare cycle hints to that They are coming regardless. So, that contradicts the idea that They need the survivors to do something for them, if They already will be freed on their own. They also try consistently to kill the survivors, which would be hindering Their own plot.

[Asparagus]

19 minutes ago, The Curator said:

However, the Fuelweaver mentions just as the nightmare cycle hints to that They are coming regardless. So, that contradicts the idea that They need the survivors to do something for them, if They already will be freed on their own. They also try consistently to kill the survivors, which would be hindering Their own plot.

And that is one thing I don't get... IF indeed the Shadow Weaver is against the presumed threat that is "THEM" and "THEM" being The Shadows... why would they aid the Weaver in the form of Shadow magic? Perhaps "Shadow" is just a means that THEY use... a tool of magical nature and the Ancient Civilization also used these "Shadows" which might have been from "THEM"... so going back now, "Who are THEY?"

The Crawler and Terror variants of the Shadows/Nightmares would then seem as though creatures that are employed or created for the purpose of fighting as in an invasion... relating to my old (and arguably absurd) theory that parallels how Don't Starve's "THEM" operates similarly to Warcraft's "Burning Legion".

THEM = Burning Legion

Shadows/Nightmares = Scourge

Shadow Weaver = A Rouge Necromancer(?)

And with that, I would like to bring on "Wortox"... at some point in Don't Starve's history, Klei created a "Demon" character, inferring that demons would play a part in the lore... though we don't know if this concept is completely scrapped, it does say something about how the Shadows would operate...

EDIT: On a side note, the old icon for Don't Starve's Magic crafting tab was that of a pentagram supporting their thoughts on black/demon magic which was now changed to the red skull... that probably signifies Eldritch magic? It would support this as the theme of insanity plays a large role...

[The Curator]

15 minutes ago, Asparagus said:

And that is one thing I don't get... IF indeed the Shadow Weaver is against the presumed threat that is "THEM" and "THEM" being The Shadows... why would they aid the Weaver in the form of Shadow magic? Perhaps "Shadow" is just a means that THEY use... a tool of magical nature and the Ancient Civilization also used these "Shadows" which might have been from "THEM"... so going back now, "Who are THEY?"

The Crawler and Terror variants of the Shadows/Nightmares would then seem as though creatures that are employed or created for the purpose of fighting as in an invasion... relating to my old (and arguably absurd) theory that parallels how Don't Starve's "THEM" operates similarly to Warcraft's "Burning Legion".

THEM = Burning Legion

Shadows/Nightmares = Scourge

Shadow Weaver = A Rouge Necromancer(?)

And with that, I would like to bring on "Wortox"... at some point in Don't Starve's history, Klei created a "Demon" character, inferring that demons would play a part in the lore... though we don't know if this concept is completely scrapped, it does say something about how the Shadows would operate...

As mentioned when explaining the shadow thurible, nightmares are subjective. Just as the survivors can manipulate nightmare fuel on an amateurish level to craft equipment and enchanted jewelry, the Fuelweaver is the expert.

This references the idea that the nightmare fuel itself is an ambiguous substance subjective to its user. This actually supports another previous anecdote explaining the shadow Watcher may be Their leader. If nightmare fuel is ambiguous, as it clearly has shown to be, then that means it needs a source to mold it. Take note of how the shadows are all very misshapen and rounded in their form, like nightmare fuel itself, they are very visibly just minions shaped from the fuel itself.

But which shadow is not, the shadow Watcher. The shadow Watcher has actual hair, and a stature, which is not something any of the other shadows even remotely have. The night hands, which are presumed to be associated with the Watcher, are also the only other shadows that have a solid looking form. Rigid and shapely.

Furthermore, Maxwell also specifically says They only watch. The shadows actively try to kill the survivors, which means the shadows are not even Them. The only thing the shadow Watcher is seen to do is observe, like Maxwell says.

They may not even be a group, but a single being which Maxwell refers to because They have no known gender.

[Diaboliko]

11 hours ago, The Curator said:

This is further supported by the fact that you can find fossil fragments buried all around the caves, and if you reconstruct them they form more then one different skeleton. Not just the Fuelweaver can be made, but other nameless skeletons as well. This can be interpreted to be that the ancients were scattered across the caves, possibly after the clockworks invaded or the nightmares spiraled out of control, and their remains ended up being buried in the earth. There are frequent tremors in the caves, it would not be difficult for their bodies to become submerged by falling rubble. And thus, you can find pieces of them all over; and when you rebuild their remains you can design several different models of the ancients because the remains are that of multiple beings and not just one.

The Fuelweaver, who is potentially their leader or a very powerful sorcerer among them, happens to be the only one you can resurrect. Possibly because of his power. And his consciousness after being revived specifically scales based on how close he is to the Ruins when it happens.

Pretty sure I heard on Rhymes with Klei stream that those are just incorrect interpretations of bones. That kind of thing happens in archeology and it probably was put for fun(initially there was only 2 skeleton forms).

[The Curator]

1 minute ago, Diaboliko said:

Pretty sure I heard on Rhymes with Klei stream that those are just incorrect interpretations of bones. That kind of thing happens in archeology and it probably was put for fun(initially there was only 2 skeleton forms).

Yes although, the fossil fragments all can be used to repair the odd skeleton. Which means they are all bones of the same species, which would align more consistently across different skeletons. So taking out the multiple skeletons, the fact they all can be used to construct the odd skeleton proves they belong to the same species. They are all the remains of ancients.

[Asparagus]

6 minutes ago, The Curator said:

Yes although, the fossil fragments all can be used to repair the odd skeleton. Which means they are all bones of the same species, which would align more consistently across different skeletons. So taking out the multiple skeletons, the fact they all can be used to construct the odd skeleton proves they belong to the same species. They are all the remains of ancients.

I think he means a different interpretation of what you wrote

11 hours ago, The Curator said:

This is further supported by the fact that you can find fossil fragments buried all around the caves, and if you reconstruct them they form more then one different skeleton.

Which I also thought to be the different wrong forms that the characters randomly assemble:

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/dont-starve-game/images/8/8f/20170309212556_1.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170310063743

[absimiliard]

I support the possibility that Maxwell refers to Them as a gender-neutral singular rather than as a plurality.

 

It never occurred to me before, but it makes sense -- and is consistent with the "the Watcher at night is Them" theory which feels intuitively right to me for some reason.

[The Curator]

8 minutes ago, absimiliard said:

It never occurred to me before, but it makes sense -- and is consistent with the "the Watcher at night is Them" theory which feels intuitively right to me for some reason.

The Watcher has been referenced for a long time, which honestly makes their significance irrefutable. Appearing in Maxwell's flat, abducting him and Charlie. Even now, the developers have the Watcher appear when the Fuelweaver takes over the survivors mind.

There are more then one however, which perhaps may mean there are multiple Watchers. Or they are illusions of the original.

 

Actually it makes even more sense. Mind control is an established connection. If the Watcher is the source of nightmares, seeing them as a hallucination while being connected to the nightmares is a sensible occurrence with psychology based magic.

[absimiliard]

8 minutes ago, The Curator said:

The Watcher has been referenced for a long time, which honestly makes their significance irrefutable. Appearing in Maxwell's flat, abducting him and Charlie. Even now, the developers have the Watcher appear when the Fuelweaver takes over the survivors mind.

There are more then one however, which perhaps may mean there are multiple Watchers. Or they are illusions of the original.

I think the multiple Watchers seen during the Fuelweaver's mind-control are either illusions or some freaky ability for someone to be in multiple places/times simultaneously.

 

Or, quite likely, I'm merely over-reading my desire for a gender-neutral alien species.  We so often try to make the alien like us, and thus gender it.  Truly non-human things -- which I think They are -- are not likely to care about gendered binaries the way humans do.  Maxwell is clever (too clever for his own good in fact) and I want to think he recognizes that and doesn't gender the alien just because.

 

But I'm probably wrong and They is a plural....

[The Curator]

1 minute ago, absimiliard said:

I think the multiple Watchers seen during the Fuelweaver's mind-control are either illusions or some freaky ability for someone to be in multiple places/times simultaneously.

 

Or, quite likely, I'm merely over-reading my desire for a gender-neutral alien species.  We so often try to make the alien like us, and thus gender it.  Truly non-human things -- which I think They are -- are not likely to care about gendered binaries the way humans do.  Maxwell is clever (too clever for his own good in fact) and I want to think he recognizes that and doesn't gender the alien just because.

 

But I'm probably wrong and They is a plural....

Well at this point, it is established that They and the shadows are different beings. The source of the nightmare fuel has been stated already to be in the heart of the ruins. The plot is currently at the Atrium Portal, but it seems illogical for there to be a portal to transport one between two areas on the same planet. From the Atrium to the heart, they could just build stairs. Although teleportation is an established ability the ancients had access to; so perhaps they just preferred to use it.

The Atrium Portal can then be assumed to either lead to the heart of the nightmares, the physical source of chaos, or perhaps Their world, the intellectual source of chaos. These can be expressly treated as two different locations now that we know the shadows, born of nightmare fuel, are not actually Them.

This could also justify why there is a contradiction. Some people believe They want the survivors to unlock the Atrium, in order to serve some unknown agenda They have. But this is contradicted by the fact that the shadows try to kill survivors. But now we know, the shadows are just nightmare fuel. The shadows may not be directly controlled by the Watcher, and may be powered by other stray sources of consciousness or energy like the heart. And so even though the Watcher is pro-nightmare, the nightmares may indirectly hinder Their desire to have the Atrium unlocked.

 

The nightmares may not even be the center of the plot, if they are simply just an obscure resource the ancients found deep within the earth. 

The real crux of the plot is who the Watcher(s) actually is and why They are so involved in this entire event. As They are now known to not be synonymous with the nightmare fuel, and it is simply a resource both the ancients and They interacted with. The idea of Them being an actual being and not just another nightmare could also explain why the Clockworks are so unlike the ancients other creations. Perhaps the Clockworks were Their army, as currently the Clockworks are a huge anomaly in the plot.

[Toros]

Seeing either Maxwell or Charlie as a villian is pretty much silly.

 

Given the immense power they have on the shadow throne it's pretty clear that they are attempting to actively help the player.  It's silly to think Maxwell lured others into the world simply to torture them, he intended to have them free him.  Adventure mode is challenging but not insurmountable and he brought (perhaps acting on orders) Wilson into the world to help free him from the throne.  Charlie wasn't going to displace max, she waited until he was off the throne before she claimed it.

 

Charlie's creations are even less aggressive and more helpful than maxwell's, and if we look at the bee queen her crown is a powerful tool for resisting the sanity loss commonly associated with shadows.  She actively helps defeat the fuelweaver with vines after the player has weakened it, suggesting it is what she wanted the survivors to do.

 

I think the heart of the ruins is the atrium, as it is capable of causing a permanent nightmare phase everywhere.

 

Note: the following is largely speculation.

 

As for the form of the ancients, we know they were originally bug-like and shed their forms before they reached the peak of their civilization.  What they became, and if that was the only change, isn't clear.

 

We can definitely see the clockworks as an anomaly in that it is strange to have both mechanical and magic, and the horse headed constructs and bishop don't physically resemble anything that we know to be the ancients.  However, the rooks are clearly modeled after the ancient guardian.

 

However, there are some factions that we haven't discussed that exist in the world.  Specifically, Krampii and Deerclops.

 

When we look at the shape physically of the reanimated skeleton, the closest analogies we can see are Krampii and Klaus, along with Deerclops.  Krampii also have manacles and chains, and Klaus has a life giving amulet and a single eye which was surgically removed.  Deerclops has neither and a single eye and shorter face, much like a bishop.

 

One possibility is that the ancients were physically split into two distinct forms after they were raised from their bug forms.  One more similar to bishops/deerclops, and one more similar to krampii.  Krampii could have been a smaller, weaker underclass and used for mining and labor, leading to the development of the krampus sacks and their chain themes.  The more bishop like class could've been the leaders.

 

Potentially this would explain why the fuelweaver has a third eye, it is inhabiting the body of a member of the underclass but because of the power the third eye is showing through.

 

This potentially could explain why Krampii only attack if you do enough evil acts or kill Glommer.  They could be victims of the ancients as much as the rest.

 

Klaus himself is a bit of an anomaly, perhaps he is a mutant or hybrid given his size and single eye, and his chest mouth and life giving amulet suggest possible experimentation.  Him utilizing magic items and gem eyed deer makes him unique in being the only enemy that uses actual magic against the player, and reinforces the intelligence of the Krampii.

 

krampii also without their horns resemble clockwork knights significantly.

 

As far as the clockworks themselves, it's possible they were used as guards, as protection, or as part of rebellion which could've led to the ruling ancients losing control over the shadows and the devastation of the civilization.  Krampii seem to come from and go to some sort of pocket dimension through their sacks, which speaks to both their magical abilities and potential isolation from the rest of the world.

 

We don't really have any examples of the ancients post-transformation and the mage statues could easily be wearing shells ceremoniously.

 

It's equally possible that the demonic state of the fossilized bones was part of whichever calamity ended the civilization, being twisted into yet another form at the end.

[Asparagus]

2 hours ago, The Curator said:

Well at this point, it is established that They and the shadows are different beings.

Only by us mind you... no actual proof has been presented for this claim.

2 hours ago, The Curator said:

The plot is currently at the Atrium Portal, but it seems illogical for there to be a portal to transport one between two areas on the same planet. From the Atrium to the heart, they could just build stairs. Although teleportation is an established ability the ancients had access to; so perhaps they just preferred to use it.

I believe this would be more of a technical issue and not a lore-wise one... as with Don't Starve (alone), you have 3 areas the overworld, the caves, and the ruins... which was changed to the overworld and the caves+ruins+atrium due to limitations and efficiency...

2 hours ago, The Curator said:

This could also justify why there is a contradiction. Some people believe They want the survivors to unlock the Atrium, in order to serve some unknown agenda They have. But this is contradicted by the fact that the shadows try to kill survivors. But now we know, the shadows are just nightmare fuel. The shadows may not be directly controlled by the Watcher, and may be powered by other stray sources of consciousness or energy like the heart. And so even though the Watcher is pro-nightmare, the nightmares may indirectly hinder Their desire to have the Atrium unlocked.

Yes, we have proposed the idea that THEY are not the Shadow creatures BUT according to canon, the Shadows ARE THEM...

http://dontstarve.wikia.com/wiki/Shadow_Creature

As part of the argument, we stated that "shadows" are nothing more than tools, constructs created by THEM for THEIR purpose... although, stated in canon lore, the Shadow Watcher is a shadow by name as well as classification, apart from that, Mr. Skits and Mr. Skittish are also in the same category as passive shadows that observe the players along with the Shadow eyes that appear in the darkness when a player's sanity is low enough...

We really can't deny it now that I remember reading the Wiki...

Quote

 

• Maxwell refers to Shadow Creatures as "Them". They are interpreted to be the mysterious beings that evidently control the realm in which the game takes place.
• Shadow Creatures are similar to the monsters in Lovecraftian literature; otherworldly beings that are able to move through dimensions and cause humans to go insane. Their names are also allusions to Lovecraftian stories such as The Lurking Fear and The Crawling Chaos.

 

 

So there's that... so shifting the theory, THEY are not to be considered as individual entities but a collective, they are always present, but can only manifest themselves by feeding off people's fears, delusions, and sanity... they drain away thoughts and when they've had enough, they will manifest themselves to hunt down the players furthering their fear and continuously losing sanity for other nightmares to be able to manifest themselves... they take on forms that are both corporeal and ethereal and when these forms are disrupted, the thoughts and fear they have collected break apart and form Nightmare fuel... so that would explain nightmare fuel and the shadows in a way... but what of the Atrium?

**Stranger Things themesong**

[ImDaMisterL]

17 hours ago, The Curator said:

It may also be possible that some manner of enchantment occurred, whether willful or not, however the theme of nightmares makes the world being an illusion more plausible.

When examining Abigail's flower, Maxwell says something along the lines of "a powerful enchantment has been cast on it", so maybe that really is what's going on with their items.

[The Curator]

8 hours ago, Asparagus said:

Only by us mind you... no actual proof has been presented for this claim.

Yes, we have proposed the idea that THEY are not the Shadow creatures BUT according to canon, the Shadows ARE THEM...

The foundation of this theory is that Maxwell explicitly states that They only watch. Which means whoever They are, they do nothing but observe. Maxwell has upheld this statement without recourse, despite knowing that shadows do attack the survivors. Which means, when he said They only watch; he knew exactly who he was referring to and they indeed only watch. If the shadows were a part of Them, Maxwell would have obviously changed his statement seeing as only some of the shadows observe and so a differentiation would need to be made.

Mr. Skits is just another generic misshapen shadow creature, clearly forged from nightmare fuel. Him only observing could potentially be because he is too weak to attack, or is fearful. Just because Mr. Skirts observes, it does not mean he is automatically a part of Them; it could just be coincidence.

The Watcher is exempt from this because the Watcher is the only shadow who does not look like they were made of nightmare fuel. The only one, which raises the question of how they exist if they are not borne of the fuel. And they happen to be the only one that looks like the silhouette of a real organism. Furthermore, the Watcher has been referenced multiple times now at critical points of the plot and is still being referenced now with the Fuelweaver.

 

[The Curator]

On 3/24/2017 at 6:34 PM, The Curator said:

Differences of Them and the Shadows :

The foundation of this theory is that Maxwell explicitly states that They only watch. Which means whoever They are, they do nothing but observe. Maxwell has upheld this statement without recourse, despite knowing that shadows do attack the survivors. Which means, when he said They only watch; he knew exactly who he was referring to and they indeed only watch. If the shadows were a part of Them, Maxwell would have obviously changed his statement seeing as only some of the shadows observe and so a differentiation would need to be made.

Mr. Skits is just another generic misshapen shadow creature, clearly forged from nightmare fuel. Him only observing could potentially be because he is too weak to attack, or is fearful. Just because Mr. Skirts observes, it does not mean he is automatically a part of Them; it could just be coincidence.

The Watcher is exempt from this because the Watcher is the only shadow who does not look like they were made of nightmare fuel. The only one, which raises the question of how they exist if they are not borne of the fuel. And they happen to be the only one that looks like the silhouette of a real organism. Furthermore, the Watcher has been referenced multiple times now at critical points of the plot and is still being referenced now with the Fuelweaver.

A final point towards Them being a single being, the Fuelweaver specifically shouts Curse Their Name in his dialogue. Name is singular, and so They are either a singular being or a group sharing one name. The former being a far more common occurrence of this. The Fuelweaver also says the name Metheus, the ancient Greek word for thought, in the same vein of dialogue.

A new point in this section now.

[The Curator]

On 3/24/2017 at 6:34 PM, The Curator said:

Metheus :

One of the rewards from the Metheus puzzle is called The Ancient King's chest. This means the Ancients did have a hierarchy. A king.

On the murals depicted in the Metheus puzzle, two prominent Ancients are shown. One wielding a staff, and another a torch. The torch wielding Ancient also has a more feminine demeanor compared to the one wielding a staff. This could mean they were the original king and queen of the ancients.

This is further supported by the final mural, which depicts the staff wielding ancient sitting on a throne sobbing. A throne, and typically the king is the one who sits on the most prominent throne in the court room.

The cane skin that is rewarded from the puzzle bears a fantastic resemblance to the king's staff, just as the tragic torch bears resemblance to the queen's torch. The cane is given to the player in the same sequence as the chest skin, and a cane is put into the chest in order to receive the new can skin. This links these skins directly to the ancient monarchy.

Metheus has taken heed, it says when you give the chest the correct offering. The offering to the Ancient King's chest. This could mean the King is Metheus, the owner of the chest. The king is the last ancient seen alive in the murals. And if Metheus is taking heed, it means he is still alive in some regard. This could mean, the Metheus puzzle is literally calling on the attention of the still living Ancient King.

One thing to note as well, this hierarchy parallels with the theme of chess in Don't Starve. Just as Maxwell was a previous king. And Charlie is the new queen. Which, without substantiating, it is a wonder if perhaps the Ancient Queen who died fighting the shadows is now actually one of the villains. Perhaps she is the Shadow Watcher, or the shadow-half of Charlie herself.

There is a new theory in town.