Is bundling wrap overpowered?

[Prakhar]

54 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

This is a beta after all. Things get nerfed and rebalanced. Besides, marble shrubs makes it easy to get a lot of marble even after the nerf. And it's not like you're using marble as much as you would logs or rocks.

Thing don't get rebalanced as far as I know.

Marble shrubs are worthless now. I have 2 shrubs that haven't grown fully in 5-8 days. That is a long time. Better to go in caves and look for marble after earthquakes.

Just let us have it as it is. I don't put ham bats in it. If you think it's OP, just don't use it. 

 

[Lumina]

Just now, Prakhar said:

If you think it's OP, just don't use it. 

Not a good way to manage balance in a game.

People deserve to enjoy new content, and in this case, a very slow spoilage will allow a better balance.

[Sinister_Fang]

8 minutes ago, Prakhar said:

Marble shrubs are worthless now. I have 2 shrubs that haven't grown fully in 5-8 days. That is a long time. Better to go in caves and look for marble after earthquakes

Well there's your problem. If you want more marble then plant more shrubs. It's that simple and it's really not difficult at all. The only difficult part about them is starting the farm from only a small handful of marble.

10 minutes ago, Prakhar said:

 If you think it's OP, just don't use it. 

And I don't. Well, not for food anyway. It's great for storing items I don't use often or compressing basic resources. But the "If you don't like it, then don't use it" excuse doesn't work very well in a multiplayer game. Other people WILL abuse it. So it usually puts you at a disadvantage for not abusing it too.

15 minutes ago, Prakhar said:

Thing don't get rebalanced as far as I know.

Remember Toadstool? Bee queen? Dragonfly? Or how about mushroom planters, marble shrubs, marble statues and jellybeans? I'm sure I'm forgetting other things that were changed too. My point is that things do get rebalanced. Sometimes things look good on paper (err... code?) but in practice it's just way too good. Feedback like this is just apart of what betas are for.

[Prakhar]

51 minutes ago, Lumina said:

Not a good way to manage balance in a game.

People deserve to enjoy new content, and in this case, a very slow spoilage will allow a better balance.

As long as it isn't too game breaking (it isn't),  the choice of balancing it is optional.

31 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

And I don't. Well, not for food anyway. It's great for storing items I don't use often or compressing basic resources. But the "If you don't like it, then don't use it" excuse doesn't work very well in a multiplayer game. Other people WILL abuse it. So it usually puts you at a disadvantage for not abusing it too.

What is there to abuse? A ham bat? Instead of using snow Chester and making a new bat every ~10 days, you put it in a container and waste valuable time in the animation and picking the stuff (which is why I don't use it) only to replace it in ~20 days. It's not a big deal.

32 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Well there's your problem. If you want more marble then plant more shrubs. It's that simple and it's really not difficult at all. The only difficult part about them is starting the farm from only a small handful of marble.

The shrubs take a very long time to grow and only give two marble. The time it takes to get a decent amount is ridiculous, and since marble isn't a super useful item, the amount of effort you put into it isn't worth the reward.

 

42 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Remember Toadstool? Bee queen? Dragonfly? Or how about mushroom planters, marble shrubs, marble statues and jellybeans? I'm sure I'm forgetting other things that were changed too. My point is that things do get rebalanced. Sometimes things look good on paper (err... code?) but in practice it's just way too good. Feedback like this is just apart of what betas are for.

I meant things that were nerfed and then buffed, which are rare. So, if paper is nerfed to a large extent (which usually is the case), the chance that it is buffed is very small.

Betas are also a time to debate and provide all sorts of feedback.

[Sinister_Fang]

2 minutes ago, Prakhar said:

What is there to abuse? A ham bat? Instead of using snow Chester and making a new bat every ~10 days, you put it in a container and waste valuable time in the animation and picking the stuff (which is why I don't use it) only to replace it in ~20 days. It's not a big deal.

It's not just the hambats. The one mechanic meant to discourage stockpiling crazy amounts of food can easily be bypassed now. Nothing is stopping you from always carrying around a full stack of fresh meatballs, a full stack of fresh pierogi and a full stack of freshly cooked greencaps.

8 minutes ago, Prakhar said:

The shrubs take a very long time to grow and only give two marble. The time it takes to get a decent amount is ridiculous, and since marble isn't a super useful item, the amount of effort you put into it isn't worth the reward.

Would you rather the marble shrubs not exist at all and go back to waiting in the caves all season for a small handful of marble? Because I wouldn't. Marble is meant to be a rare material. And now we have a more reliable and renewable method of farming marble (literally). It might be slow, but it's better then the previous method we had to deal with for years. Marble is more of a luxury item. You can live without it pretty easily.

12 minutes ago, Prakhar said:

Betas are also a time to debate and provide all sorts of feedback.

That's... pretty much the same thing I just said...

[Lumina]

18 minutes ago, Prakhar said:

As long as it isn't too game breaking (it isn't),  the choice of balancing it is optional.

Sure, and Klei will do the choice, no prob with that. But i don't like the "don't use it" argument, because everyone have the right to say why something is wrong for them. And you can answer why it's fine for you (as you did) and why you think it should stay the same, but not say that they should not use it because it just mask the problem, instead of debating about it.

 

18 minutes ago, Prakhar said:

I meant things that were nerfed and then buffed, which are rare. So, if paper is nerfed to a large extent (which usually is the case), the chance that it is buffed is very small.

If i understand well, you think that if the bundling wrap is changed, you expect something like the marble shrub, something too great becoming too bad and not changed after that to make it a little better ? If yes, i agree that sometimes the tuning could be more smooth and deserve some attention over time, but it's not a reason to not change anything i think.

[Sicko Hog]

6 hours ago, Prakhar said:

What is there to abuse? A ham bat?

Blue caps, green caps, waffles, cactus flesh, ice cream, butterfly wings, dragonpies, butter muffins... Health and sanity were already really easy to manage, but bundling wraps make it a complete joke.

[Prakhar]

8 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

It's not just the hambats. The one mechanic meant to discourage stockpiling crazy amounts of food can easily be bypassed now. Nothing is stopping you from always carrying around a full stack of fresh meatballs, a full stack of fresh pierogi and a full stack of freshly cooked greencaps.

Would you rather the marble shrubs not exist at all and go back to waiting in the caves all season for a small handful of marble? Because I wouldn't. Marble is meant to be a rare material. And now we have a more reliable and renewable method of farming marble (literally). It might be slow, but it's better then the previous method we had to deal with for years. Marble is more of a luxury item. You can live without it pretty easily.

That's... pretty much the same thing I just said...

Food was always super easy to come by. I have one stack of spoiling c. caps and one fresh. When would I ever need two stacks of caps to restore my sanity? The only thing the paper does is to make it a bit more convenient.

First, I don't know why marble is a luxury material (you can't make anything good from it). Second, I think Klei saw this and gave us marble shrubs. After they were nerfed, marble is once again a luxury material, which it should have never been.

I added the debate part and all sorts(+ve -ve feedback) to imply that betas are also a time to take in account all opinions, and not just the one which is popular, but the one which is best for the game (not implying this here).

2 hours ago, JellyUltra said:

Blue caps, green caps, waffles, cactus flesh, ice cream, butterfly wings, dragonpies, butter muffins... Health and sanity were already really easy to manage, but bundling wraps make it a complete joke.

Do they?

Consider this scenario (happened to me):

I have a bundling wrap with 5 fish sticks, and some random stuff.

It is winter, deerclops. I run away to a good spot and it spawns and aggros onto me. I try to fight it, but take some hits. I need to heal. I run away a bit and open it. Deerclops attacks while in the middle of the animation. I try again. After 5 tries (at night) I finally open it. I used the space-bar to pick it up, but I didn't. Deerclops hits. Again. Nope. Dodge it this time. Again. Finally. But wait! My inventory is full. I run around and sort my inventory, taking quite a few hits. Now I eat. The animation is again long. Bam. Hit.

In the end, I survived but barely.

My point is that the long animations offset the +ves in times of combat.

[Sinister_Fang]

58 minutes ago, Prakhar said:

Food was always super easy to come by. I have one stack of spoiling c. caps and one fresh. When would I ever need two stacks of caps to restore my sanity? The only thing the paper does is to make it a bit more convenient.

I find that bundles just make it too convenient. Like you said, food is already easy to obtain. Now you can hoard it too.

1 hour ago, Prakhar said:

Do they?

Consider this scenario (happened to me):

I have a bundling wrap with 5 fish sticks, and some random stuff.

It is winter, deerclops. I run away to a good spot and it spawns and aggros onto me. I try to fight it, but take some hits. I need to heal. I run away a bit and open it. Deerclops attacks while in the middle of the animation. I try again. After 5 tries (at night) I finally open it. I used the space-bar to pick it up, but I didn't. Deerclops hits. Again. Nope. Dodge it this time. Again. Finally. But wait! My inventory is full. I run around and sort my inventory, taking quite a few hits. Now I eat. The animation is again long. Bam. Hit.

In the end, I survived but barely.

My point is that the long animations offset the +ves in times of combat.

Combat in DS/T is about 90% preparation. Deerclops' roaring was more then enough time to pull out some healing foods just in case you needed them (and it sounds like you did). So yes, the bundles are inconvenient in combat, but it would have been pretty easy to prepare for the fight by pulling out the food for just a little while.

[HutGenerator]

1 hour ago, Prakhar said:

It is winter, deerclops. I run away to a good spot and it spawns and aggros onto me. I try to fight it, but take some hits. I need to heal. I run away a bit and open it. Deerclops attacks while in the middle of the animation. I try again. After 5 tries (at night) I finally open it. I used the space-bar to pick it up, but I didn't. Deerclops hits. Again. Nope. Dodge it this time. Again. Finally. But wait! My inventory is full. I run around and sort my inventory, taking quite a few hits. Now I eat. The animation is again long. Bam. Hit.

In the end, I survived but barely.

My point is that the long animations offset the +ves in times of combat.

I don't think the bundle wrap is meant to be opened during mid fight. Usually it is opened when you hear the boss sign, so that you dont have to go to your chest zone and slowly search for boss fight item. So, the long animation and drop-out not directly going into your inventory seems like not a big problem at all.

[Prakhar]

46 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

I find that bundles just make it too convenient. Like you said, food is already easy to obtain. Now you can hoard it too.

If food is easy to obtain, what's the point of hoarding it? That's basically why the bundling wrap is fine. Food isn't a major factor to determine it's usefulness as it is already plentiful.

46 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

21 minutes ago, HutGenerator said:

I don't think the bundle wrap is meant to be opened during mid fight. Usually it is opened when you hear the boss sign, so that you dont have to go to your chest zone and slowly search for boss fight item. So, the long animation and drop-out not directly going into your inventory seems like not a big problem at all.

Combat in DS/T is about 90% preparation. Deerclops' roaring was more then enough time to pull out some healing foods just in case you needed them (and it sounds like you did). So yes, the bundles are inconvenient in combat, but it would have been pretty easy to prepare for the fight by pulling out the food for just a little while.

Don't mind the clunkiness. Not too good with phones.

Anyways, I was in my base. When I hear a giant, the only option was to run away from the base which gave me very little time to pull it out, if any.

[Sinister_Fang]

Just now, Prakhar said:

If food is easy to obtain, what's the point of hoarding it? That's basically why the bundling wrap is fine. Food isn't a major factor to determine it's usefulness as it is already plentiful.

It's a resource that you're meant to always be gathering and managing. The bundles just cut out what little was left of the starve part of Don't Starve Together. Whenever there's a surplus of food you can just bundle it up for later. If things get sparse then just unwrap it and you're good to go at a single click. Before bundles everyone would panic and scramble to gather more food if it ever got low. It made things interesting in the few occasions that happened. I almost died of starvation once too. That scenario is pretty much gone now. People complain a lot about boredom in the late game, and this cuts down on a lot of the busywork making that boredom set in sooner.

[Prakhar]

15 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

It's a resource that you're meant to always be gathering and managing. The bundles just cut out what little was left of the starve part of Don't Starve Together. Whenever there's a surplus of food you can just bundle it up for later. If things get sparse then just unwrap it and you're good to go at a single click. Before bundles everyone would panic and scramble to gather more food if it ever got low. It made things interesting in the few occasions that happened. I almost died of starvation once too. That scenario is pretty much gone now. People complain a lot about boredom in the late game, and this cuts down on a lot of the busywork making that boredom set in sooner.

Food is always surplus. And rot is getting more useful. I kind of agree with you but I also disagree. I don't know what to say. I just don't want another marble shrub.

Late game boredum is cut by doing aesthetically pleasing work. Not by foraging (which you still do).

[Eternity7]

 

3 hours ago, Prakhar said:

Food is always surplus.

Late game boredum is cut by doing aesthetically pleasing work. Not by foraging (which you still do).

Agreed.

I actually don't care about bundling wrap. It's fine at the moment. No one cares if it stop spoilage. There are a lot of items that most players doesn't care such as One-man Band, Nightlight...

Late game, I only worry about Bearger because it wrecks my beautiful base. Who cares about food?

 

 

[Arlesienne]

I find all bee queen drops amazingly OP. Lovably so. Just think of it: using the crown to farm deerclops for sanity? Every other time its fight was the giant and the shadows. Now it just skyrockets.

The wrap is somewhat renewable through the chance of honeycombs from the queen. And incredibly easy to craft. Something like that ought to at least be tier four crafting. What really bugs me is that wax paper just doesn't work this way. Everything spoils (honey crystallises). Why not make the wrap lose some durability and ultimately not halt spoilage entirely? Because right now, most of people aware of its functions ditch fridges (tanky WX mains!) and limit the number of beeboxes, whose honey production essentially makes food easy as pie and even works in winter if far enough. I'm all for bundles, but some some of nerf would be fair.

[AniMike]

To be honest, I didn't even know this  existed.. I say let it stay, It's not hurting anyone and I rarely see people use this cheap method because it's taking away the Bee hive population and I find no spoilage useful, yes we can get more from Bee queen but that's more of a late game thing (killing her) and its more time consuming  to kill her and wait for her to respawn (20 ingame days)..but yeah, I think bundling wraps are fair because your sacrificing a resource for something else to benefit yourself, because once all those hives are gone, the only way your getting more is by fighting Bee Queen and she's pretty challenging if your ACTUALLY fighting her and not doing Cheap methods.

[Mday]

When you have an ice box full of food and you are making jerky bundles one after another, the bit of difficultly of the game based on "hunger" is just not there anymore. It won't matter if the jerky stored in the bundle can spoil or not, cause food will still be flowing into your base and you can't stop it. The real challenge at that point is to make enough drying rack and bundling wrap to pack all the meat you come across.

From my point of view the real benefits of the bundling wrap, really is allowing you to bring 3 times more stuff in and out of the ruin. You can stay in the ruin for so much longer when you have 3 times more supply (grass/twigs/logs etc).

[GLERMZ]

We still talking about starvation in 2k17 ? Was there even a problem before wraps ? I mean you can literally live out of honey in late game, is not so bad to actually have some useful items inside never rot ? Like carrots you continuously get, so when you decide to do bunny village. Bulbs to refuel your lamps, lanterns, without going to caves every single time. All the Glowberrys you get when each person gets 4 worms in caves. Ruins Eel, so you can finally make some variety food just because you felt like it ? Is that so much OP ? (:

The only thing i can agree on, is that Bundling Wrap should be only obtainable via Blue Print by defeating the Bee Queen. All the rest i think its just moot. Not Starving was easy before it, this item just made you be able to do fun stuff and actually store some items you couldn't before.

Best Regards,

Glermz
 

[mochilo]

There are players of many different skill levels and playing styles. I guess some of them will find bundling wraps helpful.

I don't think every item needs to be designed for the veteran player, but every player has the choice about items. You don't need to use every tool, I see it more like each player makes his surviving style and has different options for equipment. Many people use the Tam to help sanity, while others preffer using food or sleeping to keep their head slot free for defense or whatever, and others will use hibernation vest + tam as a home time pyjama to recover while working at the base. Some people hate farms and others make super big vegies farms.

I personally never ever crafted a bundling wrap, as well as I feel no interest at all about the new gobbler items. But the more options to make different play styles the better, in my opinion!

[FTR]

I think it definately shouldn't stop spoilage. At best it should reduce spoilage by 25% (half of what fridge does).