Why were Webber's pronouns changed between DS and DST?

[amethystMushroom]

Spoilers for Adventure Mode

At the end of Adventure Mode, Webber is referred to as "it". In the code, the endgame window is structured as this:

    ENDGAME=
    {
        TITLE="The End.",
        BODY1 = "And so the cycle continues. Will ",
        BODY2 = " ever escape?\n Perhaps %s too will tire of this wretched place, and use %s new powers to tempt the unsuspecting.\n\nThe mysterious beings that control this place still lurk in the shadows, and new challenges will soon be revealed.\n\nUntil then,\n- The Don't Starve Team -",
        YES= "For Science!",
    },

The character name is put between BODY1 and BODY2, and %s is replaced with the character's pronouns.

There are three genders in DS: MALE, FEMALE, and ROBOT.

    GENDERSTRINGS =
    {
        MALE =
        {
            ONE = "he",
            TWO = "his",
        },
        FEMALE =
        {
            ONE = "she",
            TWO = "her",
        },
        ROBOT =
        {
            ONE = "they",
            TWO = "them",
        },
    },

(I'm not sure why ROBOT has "they" instead of "it" here; the ROBOT characters use "it" in the epilogue)

The character genders are specified in constants.lua:
 

CHARACTER_GENDERS = 
{
	FEMALE = {
		"willow",
		"wendy",
		"wickerbottom",
		"wathgrithr"
	},
	MALE = {
		"wilson",
		"woodie",
		"waxwell",
		"wolfgang",
		"wes",
	},
	ROBOT = {
		"wx78",
		"webber",
	},
}

As you can see in that last bit, Webber is put into the ROBOT category. This is because Webber is a monster, and thus is referred to as "it". Or maybe it was intended that Webber be referred to with "they" on account of Webber being made of two beings. This was before the PLURAL and NEUTRAL genders were introduced in DST, mostly to facilitate mod characters.

You probably already know that it is different in DST; whenever a Webber dies, the game says "He became a spooky ghost!" This is because, for some reason, the CHARACTER_GENDERS table was modified in DST:

CHARACTER_GENDERS = 
{
	FEMALE = {
		"willow",
		"wendy",
		"wickerbottom",
		"wathgrithr",
	},
	MALE = {
		"wilson",
		"woodie",
		"waxwell",
		"wolfgang",
		"wes",
		"webber",
	},
	ROBOT = {
		"wx78",
		"pyro",
	},
	NEUTRAL = {}, --empty, for modders to add to
	PLURAL = {}, --empty, for modders to add to
}

You can see that Webber was moved to the MALE category during the transition to DST. So, why did the developers decide to change this?

In the character speech table I made, you can see that some of the other characters also refer to Webber as "him", though Willow uses "them". So, maybe Webber was supposed to be "him" all along, and the DS data was an oversight due to pronouns only ever being used in the endgame window?

Or maybe DS was emphasizing Webber's status as a monster, while DST wants to show Webber as more of a person? The other characters seem to see Webber as human or monster depending on past actions, which is easy to see in Maxwell's speech:

		WEBBER = 
		{
			GENERIC = "Greetings, Mr. %s.",
			ATTACKER = "%s is looking downright feral...",
			MURDERER = "So, %s, you're a monster after all!",
			REVIVER = "This child, %s, doesn't have a mean bone in his body.",

I personally like the "it" style because it indicates that Webber is not entirely human. But I think that the PLURAL category might make more sense in DST because Webber usually uses "we" when self-describing. If any character could be worthy of the PLURAL category, I think it would be Webber, because Webber is literally two beings. I can also see the advantage of just ignoring the spider and using he/him/his pronouns.

So, why do you think that Webber was changed from "it" to "him" between DS and DST?

[GiddyGuy]

21 minutes ago, amethystMushroom said:

So, why do you think that Webber was changed from "it" to "him" between DS and DST?

Because Webber x Wendy...

In all seriousness nice observation, however if you remember from adventure mode where none of the characters ever talk to the throne sitter and the throne sitter never talks to the character rescuing them(except for Maxwell) how are they suppose to know that a scared spider humanoid has a gender?

However in DST where they do talk about and to each other which would show they have talked to each other in the past, they would know Webber is a boy, trapped in a spider, trapped in a frog, It'd be weird if they called him a they/them/it when they already know his gender.

Edit: Most of all characters hate spiders, why would they want to give the spider half any respect? When the human half has all the personality, and love. 

[Arlesienne]

As @GiddyGuy pointed out, I think other characters, before meeting Webber, that is, just assume the lad a monster. It's not like he has any visible gender marks. Whereas you use them to refer to him and the spider as a whole, and him as a polite term (like WX).

[ExtollerOfTrolls]

These make sense, though it seems as though WX is referred to as male as well. (Mustache in the GoH skin)

Though I guess the difference is he physically has no gender, whereas Webber does, though you'd need to talk to him to know that.

 

I'm still gonna call WX a boy though, I'm too lazy to call him an it or they.

[Arlesienne]

18 minutes ago, ExtollerOfTrolls said:

These make sense, though it seems as though WX is referred to as male as well. (Mustache in the GoH skin)

Though I guess the difference is he physically has no gender, whereas Webber does, though you'd need to talk to him to know that.

 

I'm still gonna call WX a boy though, I'm too lazy to call him an it or they.

All skins are available in DST, where it can be presumed the characters have spoken to each other a bit. The WX you can see in DS is in his default skin and you only catch the glimpse of him on the Nightmare Throne.

I find this a very interesting subject in spite of me not really being into gender studies - you have WX who simply identifies as a male and Webber has this personality split when he references himself, the spider or them both.

[amethystMushroom]

1 hour ago, ExtollerOfTrolls said:

These make sense, though it seems as though WX is referred to as male as well. (Mustache in the GoH skin)

Though I guess the difference is he physically has no gender, whereas Webber does, though you'd need to talk to him to know that.

 

I'm still gonna call WX a boy though, I'm too lazy to call him an it or they.

I don't think WX is ever referred to with he/him/his, actually. All of the characters use "they" or "it", and Maxwell even refers to them with the title "Mx.". They do call another WX on the Nightmare Throne "BROTHER", and there is the mustache thing, but I don't think those really count when all the other characters use they/them/their, along with all of the server announcements. WX doesn't seem to really care about gender anyway, it would probably just be "MORE FLESHLING NONSENSE"

[GiddyGuy]

french maid wx-78 skin, when?

[amethystMushroom]

2 minutes ago, GiddyGuy said:

french maid wx-78 skin, when?

You couldn't catch them dead in one of those; WX would never serve someone else. They're far superior, after all.

[CaptainChaotica]

Yeah...I can see where the others would call Webber a "he", as that seems to be the dominant personality/I assume he's talking to them with a male voice?  (Well, his "voice" instrument has a pretty deep pitch.)

HowEVer...Webber IS a "they"--in like, the actual _plural_ sense "they", not the more polite way of refering to a genderless/unknown gender character rather than calling them "it".  'Cos, ya know, he's got the two personalities in there.  And he refers to _himself_ as "We" in his examination quotes sometimes...when it's not definitely one or the other "talking".  ("We agree that flowers are nice.")   And for all we know it was a girl spider who ate him--not that that really matters.  But technically, Webber is a _true_ They. Like a Trill, only grislier.

WX is a non-biological machine and doesn't care what you silly fleshbags do with your silly fleshbag pronouns, so you can call "him" whatever you want.  Non-gender-specific-looking construct characters tend to be called "he" anyway, as that's (sadly) almost always the default in absence of any other information. Robot, golemn, elemental...unless it has boobs/long hair/a high voice we tend to call it "he".  (...unless it's a vehicle, in which case always "she:".)

WX him/itself doesn't give a damn, of course.  : P

...Notorious

[AnonymousKoala]

 

9 hours ago, Arlesienne said:

All skins are available in DST, where it can be presumed the characters have spoken to each other a bit. The WX you can see in DS is in his default skin and you only catch the glimpse of him on the Nightmare Throne.

I find this a very interesting subject in spite of me not really being into gender studies - you have WX who simply identifies as a male and Webber has this personality split when he references himself, the spider or them both.

It gets even more interesting in quotes such as him saying Red is his favorite, but Blue is OUR favorite color. Our/we seems to usually stand for the spider.

8 hours ago, amethystMushroom said:

You couldn't catch them dead in one of those; WX WOULD NEVER SERVE SOMEONE ELSE. THEY'RE FAR SUPERIOR, AFTER ALL.

FTFY

[Tainted-Petals]

This is a shame, I prefer when char's have gender neutral identifiers (though I'm getting annoyed that it's only when chars are 'monsters' or 'robots'; basically 'non human entities')

[Sivdun]

It's obvious.

Go give DarkClefita kiss or something.

[MrFurphie]

Maybe because Webber felt more with himself, kinda like how Genji from Overwatch was once in disgust of what he had become, and eventually he became one with his new identity. I believe that may have happened for our silky friend as well. Really shows he's quite the mature kid in all this. Good for you Webber!

[An Artifact]

Webber is taking all that abuse the world is throwing at him with so much grace. Brave little guy. :,( 

[Fortie]

On 11/25/2016 at 5:03 PM, amethystMushroom said:

 They do call another WX on the Nightmare Throne "BROTHER", 

WX will also call Webber "BROTHER" since he is on the list of Robots. robot webber when

 

16 hours ago, CaptainChaotica said:

And for all we know it was a girl spider who ate him--not that that really matters. 

I always assumed it was a male spider who ate him, since it would make sense. and how Webber's quote on DST with the trinket that was added in Hallows Night Broken Elixir is this: "I kinda want to drink what's left in it but He won't let me." This could just be the Spider talking and by "He" it could just refer to Webber and not the Spider. 

 

2 hours ago, MeingroessterFan said:

Webber is taking all that abuse the world is throwing at him with so much grace. Brave little guy. :,( 

Well, he has been through a lot already and he's only a child. what's even worse is by canon is that Webber had DIED at some point since you unlock him by finding his skull and giving him a proper burial. Bless Webber honestly,,