For the Love of all that is Holy

[Faintly Macabre]

8 minutes ago, StarvedKasad said:

Then we clearly have a problem regarding what is logical and what is good for the community.

I'm almost 100% certain the community is doing a-okay without a pause button.

[Mario384]

I'll never stop til' the beaver is buffed.

 

 

Joking, of course, but I still think giving feedback is an important part of developer and community relationships that is necessary, and if you wish for anyone to stop doing so, you sir, are hokey.

[StarvedKasad]

18 hours ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

I'm almost 100% certain the community is doing a-okay without a pause button.

If you do want to talk about the community you just need to check people's opinion on character tweaks,bugs,lag,delay and of course the ever increasing amount of griefers. The community is doing fine-ish at best.

[Faintly Macabre]

30 minutes ago, StarvedKasad said:

If you do want to talk about the community you just need to check people's opinion on character tweaks,bugs,lag,delay and of course the ever increasing amount of griefers. The community is doing fine-ish at best.

Pretty obviously meant the lack of a pause button was not having a significant effect on the community's well-being.

Character tweaks are subjective stuff, bugs are fairly few and fewer still have any significant impact on gameplay, Klei can't move people out of places with crappy Internet, very few people are complaining about this delay issue you had, and the severity of the griefer issue is being artificially inflated by a small few people who complain about it every time they post because they refuse to stop trying to play the game in a way that you can't play any multiplayer game without having to deal with jerks. The community is doing pretty good.

[StarvedKasad]

9 minutes ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

Pretty obviously meant the lack of a pause button was not having a significant effect on the community's well-being.

Character tweaks are subjective stuff, bugs are fairly few and fewer still have any significant impact on gameplay, Klei can't move people out of places with crappy Internet, very few people are complaining about this delay issue you had, and the severity of the griefer issue is being artificially inflated by a small few people who complain about it every time they post because they refuse to stop trying to play the game in a way that you can't play any multiplayer game without having to deal with jerks. The community is doing pretty good.

You're clearly clueless and ignorant,an elitist gamer of the grandeur who also hasn't read the bloody forums for the past 3 months. I'm not going to partake into this discussion with a clearly clueless person. Your knowledge let alone your attitude shows you are clearly in no place to discuss a co-op game.Please go back and play whatever you wannabe-elite types play. Thank you.

[Faintly Macabre]

7 minutes ago, StarvedKasad said:

You're clearly clueless and ignorant,an elitist gamer of the grandeur who also hasn't read the bloody forums for the past 3 months. I'm not going to partake into this discussion with a clearly clueless person. Your knowledge let alone your attitude shows you are clearly in no place to discuss a co-op game.Please go back and play whatever you wannabe-elite types play. Thank you.

Yeah, I'm the one with the attitude.  No, I think what I'll do is just keep playing this game I enjoy that's working pretty well and that people by and large are enjoying, unaffected by this fantasy you're trapped in where it's all hail and hellfire.

[WorstNightmare]

Topic like these are what causes a game population downfall. if criticism can't be given how could these developers understand what the community ( by this I mean casual and veterans that regular these forums) encounters on their playthrough that sways them from playing the game in first place, keeping the mind of a developer I would want as most people as satisfied as I could, so they can recommend it to friends and relatives. positive action on demanded change brings even the oldest players back. All of this pockets more revenue for them, so I ask how does in any stretch, these topics "complaining" are hard to just skip over if it gives you a personal opinionated feel about them? I'd understand if the topics over the same topic nearly covered the front page but that isn't the case even at the time of this thread's original post. Some things are better not said, much as some are better said then not and this opinionated OP discourage people to not post the problems they've come across in-game, can you imagine a forum where no-one was allowed to say negatives about the game regardless if it's minuscule or not?

1 hour ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

Yeah, I'm the one with the attitude.  No, I think what I'll do is just keep playing this game I enjoy that's working pretty well and that people by and large are enjoying, unaffected by this fantasy you're trapped in where it's all hail and hellfire.

You actually do have quite an attitude or at least the vibe you are showing of asserting your opinion as if it's 100% right and bashing the other spectrum to oblivion without thinking for a second to understand. Everyone this forum enjoys the game just as much or more than you do, but the difference between the disagreement you are arguing here is that they want to see the game improve. You could say say changes are subjective and such and such are small but in reality you're just brushing past of how they are. I'll clarify how you are false with that statement in short. These "small bugs" or exploits can actually eliminate the balance of the game, for ex. Ancient Guardian which is considered clearly a boss can be killed between a pillar and wall that are close enough, and the same for two graves the equipment to do this can be attained a mere in-game day. Dragonfly whom was designed to be the most difficult boss with difficult mechanics and one of the few that was designed to taken down with group effort, exploited with sleep mechanics (He won't fight back, just docked at a pond) this will take at least 3 days via STS or Panflute. Onto the character changes, when a lower tier character (Wilson, Webber, Wendy, Willow) has a issue it should be a priority fix considering these character are solely picked for their underwhelming but helpful perks for newer players or charming personalities. I can guarantee you the majority will agree on a re-work to willow and fix to abigail's AI because they are not "subjectively" but rather it ruins their experience as that character. I made this longer than I wanted to. 

TL;DR: The people you think are complaining are actually just those who want to share minor problems in their playthrough some may not say it in the right manner but, most of us enjoy game as well.

[Faintly Macabre]

8 hours ago, WorstNightmare said:

You actually do have quite an attitude or at least the vibe you are showing of asserting your opinion as if it's 100% right and bashing the other spectrum to oblivion without thinking for a second to understand.

Have you even been reading the stuff I've been responding to? I mean really.

8 hours ago, WorstNightmare said:

Everyone this forum enjoys the game just as much or more than you do, but the difference between the disagreement you are arguing here is that they want to see the game improve.

I want to see the game improve "as much or more than you do." We just disagree on what bears improvement and the severity of the things we agree do.

8 hours ago, WorstNightmare said:

These "small bugs" or exploits can actually eliminate the balance of the game

Like this. I'm sorry, but yet another way to trivialize a boss that's never been difficult to begin with (and only occurs once in this version of the game, besides) and another that there's little reward to kill anyway does not "eliminate the balance" of the entire damned game. There's so, so much to do in this game and the vast majority of it works great. I don't object to these things being addressed or fixed; I object to the ridiculous level of hyperbole used in describing the effect they have on the health of the game as a whole.

9 hours ago, WorstNightmare said:

Onto the character changes, when a lower tier character (Wilson, Webber, Wendy, Willow) has a issue it should be a priority fix considering these character are solely picked for their underwhelming but helpful perks for newer players or charming personalities. I can guarantee you the majority will agree on a re-work to willow and fix to abigail's AI because they are not "subjectively" but rather it ruins their experience as that character.

You need to take a moment or three to review the meaning of the word "subjective." Lower tier? Underwhelming? I think the advantage Wilson and Webber have in the Winter with their beards is rather significant. I think Wilson's average stats are an asset when trying to avoid unnecessary hindrances such as low base sanity. I think Webber's just plain awesome; I enjoy his perks and think his disadvantages make playing him interesting and a significantly unique experience from the others. I main Wendy, because used properly I think Abigail is incredibly powerful (and, on that note, think buffing her AI too much might tip her into the overpowered basket).

Ask for change. Say what things you do and don't like. Just stop stomping your feet and whining like children about it, or insisting the sky is falling.

P.S.: The both of you need to dial back the formal language some, because you're using a lot of it incorrectly; what doesn't produce hard-to-read nonsense often just looks kinda silly and try-hard. Especially when you're calling ME the elitist...

[WorstNightmare]

1 hour ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

Have you even been reading the stuff I've been responding to? I mean really.

I want to see the game improve "as much or more than you do." We just disagree on what bears improvement and the severity of the things we agree do.

I've been actively reading your posts and it certainly gives the vibe I described, now whether or not it's true is up to you.

You don't want to see the game improve, because that doesn't relate to when you declaring everything in this game is perfectly fine and it doesn't require any changes or improvements.

 

1 hour ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

Like this. I'm sorry, but yet another way to trivialize a boss that's never been difficult to begin with (and only occurs once in this version of the game, besides) and another that there's little reward to kill anyway does not "eliminate the balance" of the entire damned game. There's so, so much to do in this game and the vast majority of it works great. I don't object to these things being addressed or fixed; I object to the ridiculous level of hyperbole used in describing the effect they have on the health of the game as a whole.

I'm going to assume you speaking generally about both of the bosses although you said "a boss" and difficult or not they are one of the very few challenges the game currently has to offer for a playthrough session outside the simplistic season bosses. The loot actually has chances at the most valuable resources in the game, it could be attained in other ways no doubt, but it would require slightly more work and much more equipment. I could do a playthrough and defeat both of these bosses within one season whom are offered as "late-game" bosses without any luck involved, tell me how does this not once again eliminate the balance of the game. Admittedly, eliminating the balance is a over statement so, I'll say it tampers the balance of the game.

Of course, there's more to do in this game mainly gathering, developing base, and surviving. But I can bet half of this game enjoyment is combat-wise it may be the cause of death to most of us and action is what keeps the game entertaining, so when the two most difficult entities can be made considerably easier than your average spider kill something has to give.

These exploits aren't too serious (although they really are) since not many know about them, so the average newcomer player searching for compromising experience will enjoy the game for a good while but I said them as examples. You've been arguing that not a single thing needs a look-over by the devs for a simple fix or that's the way you've been putting it in your posts

 

1 hour ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

Ask for change. Say what things you do and don't like. Just stop stomping your feet and whining like children about it, or insisting the sky is falling.

P.S.: The both of you need to dial back the formal language some, because you're using a lot of it incorrectly; what doesn't produce hard-to-read nonsense often just looks kinda silly and try-hard. Especially when you're calling ME the elitist...

.I'll be interested in seeing a example of someone crying like a child or "insisting the sky is falling" without all the exaggeration.

P.S.: This is a clear indication of how badly you lack understanding, I type "formal" because I want to show maturity and respect, others type like this as well for different reasons.

[Faintly Macabre]

4 hours ago, WorstNightmare said:

I've been actively reading your posts and it certainly gives the vibe I described,

Missed the point

4 hours ago, WorstNightmare said:

now whether or not it's true is up to you.

The truth is very rarely up to a single individual (a thing the whiners seem to be struggling with)

4 hours ago, WorstNightmare said:

You don't want to see the game improve

Though here's an example where it is. This is patently not true.

4 hours ago, WorstNightmare said:

declaring everything in this game is perfectly fine and it doesn't require any changes or improvements.

Not a thing that happened

4 hours ago, WorstNightmare said:

tell me how does this not once again eliminate the balance of the game. Admittedly, eliminating the balance is a over statement so, I'll say it tampers the balance of the game.

"How doesn't this do the thing I said it does? Well, actually, it doesn't."

4 hours ago, WorstNightmare said:

But I can bet half of this game enjoyment is combat-wise

I'm sorry, but I don't believe this for a minute. Half of the enjoyment in the game is derived from hit, hit, move out, move in, repeat?

4 hours ago, WorstNightmare said:

These exploits aren't too serious (although they really are) since not many know about them, so the average newcomer player searching for compromising experience will enjoy the game for a good while but I said them as examples.

They're terrible examples because they're something you/others are doing to themselves, and they're really not particularly advantageous methods from methods more accepted as the "correct" way to do them, save for the ability to get them done a little earlier in the game. If you're at the point where this is a thing you could/would do, those fights aren't a challenge one way or the other, making the exploits not really the problem.

4 hours ago, WorstNightmare said:

I'll be interested in seeing a example of someone crying like a child or "insisting the sky is falling" without all the exaggeration.

Exaggeration and hyperbole have their place in discourse. You just have to be able to use them a little better than

4 hours ago, WorstNightmare said:

so when the two most difficult entities can be made considerably easier than your average spider kill something has to give.

this

4 hours ago, WorstNightmare said:

You've been arguing that not a single thing needs a look-over by the devs for a simple fix

or this.

4 hours ago, WorstNightmare said:

P.S.: This is a clear indication of how badly you lack understanding, I type "formal" because I want to show maturity and respect, others type like this as well for different reasons.

Misusing formal turns of phrase and mannerisms doesn't make people look mature and many people use it as a way to put themselves above others rather than to show respect. If you really are typing the way you are for these reasons you might want to quit. (And the other guy was pretty clearly not trying to show respect to anybody)

[Faintly Macabre]

16 hours ago, WorstNightmare said:

bashing the other spectrum to oblivion

At least you could get some traction now on this argument (though it'd be misguided).

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

After reading this... @TheHalcyonOne actually reasons pretty well here. Except that exploits and overlooks need to be addressed because of the very fact that they're... Well, exploits and overlooks! Like, for instance, one thing that devs have not overlooked is the possibility of exchanging sanity for endless materials of nightmare fuel, thulecite, gears and whatever else that's sort of rare/kind of hard to obtain. The small change here is that they made it so when you deconstruct things, the gem within that recipe gets destroyed. It's a small thing... yet it hinders how well the game is balanced and not make it so that so long as people are down in the ruins and are fine with staying insane/have hoards of sanity restoring items, they can use construction amulets and deconstruction staves endlessly for getting rare materials... well, endlessly. Just make a path-way with walls and perhaps some cobblestone to your nearest Ancient Pseudo Station, grab your bush hat/snurtle shell armour, grab a bunch of taffy/honey/cactus flesh/green caps or whatever other quick sanity replenishing item you want and voila, you're the god of the game (if you weren't already, that is). These little work-arounds for various things are unintended overlooks. If that was left to stay in a game that's supposed to be well designed and well crafted (Klei even themselves said they want to make "the best multiplayer experience" or something along the lines), then that would certainly present to people as if developers don't care about things being left hanging with exploits and overlooks. These things need addressing so that it doesn't become lame and boring and casual to just kill a dragonfly on a yearly basis, but something to truly prepare for, otherwise the game punishing you for your mistakes. That's even how this game is supposed to work like, right?

The deal about players being balanced is so that people would, instead of prioritizing OP characters so that you would get this and that advantage in the game, to consider taking other characters, because all of them would have pretty much equal perks and downsides (I mean, you could consider taking Wes for the sake of having balloons as an alternative for tooth traps, if those were tweaked a little and not just because he's harder in general). Like, lets say Willow had fire-immunity and Bernie could farm nightmare fuel some bit, I would go "Hmm, should I take Wigfrid to provide everybody with helmets and deal some bit more damage whilst also having some bit more resistance or provide everybody with some easier nightmare fuel farming, whilst being completely immune to fire and getting crap ton of easy sanity from it?" Like that. Instead of having to think "Oh, this group of characters are all too crappy for helping others in the long run, I'll take a character that will actually have some niche use to the whole team and myself" and then you choose WX, Wolfgang, Wigfrid, Wickerbottom or Maxwell. Sometimes Woodie, Webber or Wendy, but mainly the former 5 have the hugest perks among most other characters. Like, for instance, I every now and then think when picking between the currently powerful characters "Hmm, do I take WX so I have high stats and high speed as well as stale and spoiled food being good for me, or do I sacrifice that for easy head armour for myself and everyone else as well as higher damage output and smaller damage intake? Or how about the librarian which will make farming grass, twigs and possibly reeds if we have the reed trap as well as farming birds for spawning in Krampus quicker to get Krampus sacks? And help out an existing WX for becoming sonic fast?". Because in a game, that is what you look for; advantages. And if you have ways to obtain something easily due to exploits or more powerful characters, you will see people using those exploits to their advantage whenever they can and prioritizing the most powerful characters.

[WorstNightmare]

7 hours ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

Missed the point 

This is my last time saying this, I'm done with this subject. I said it gives me vibes, in simple terms if you don't understand is (my own) thoughts and preempt opinions as I read your post. You've asked me have I been really reading your post to which I said, I've been actively reading your posts.

7 hours ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

Though here's an example where it is. This is patently not true. ---- Not a thing that happened.

These aren't correct ways to defend yourself, anyone can simply say I have not done that although the posts says otherwise.

 

8 hours ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

Exaggeration and hyperbole have their place in discourse. You just have to be able to use them a little better than

You completely skipped over the question I asked and those statements have no reasons to be included besides to once again start "bashing me" for your own personal feel of being right.

 

8 hours ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

Misusing formal turns of phrase and mannerisms doesn't make people look mature and many people use it as a way to put themselves above others rather than to show respect. If you really are typing the way you are for these reasons you might want to quit. (And the other guy was pretty clearly not trying to show respect to anybody)

This answer shows you skimmed through my response. For one, misuse of these terms are your own rightful opinion but, boast about it being right. I speak to many people in this tone and they give me in return given respect. Also, as I've said it's my own reason of typing how I type and I'm not multiple people. Why should I quit? Is it because you personally think the way I type is "try-hard"?

8 hours ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

At least you could get some traction now on this argument (though it'd be misguided).

You generalize your opinion to a big sum of people to create fake proof that what you believe is what many others as well think, that's just wrong. Following this up with not being able to accept when you're in wrong and just understand you've had different thoughts.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

Now I think @WorstNightmare reasons well as well... Agh! It's like I understand you both, but then end up nowhere :~

[WorstNightmare]

8 hours ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

I'm sorry, but I don't believe this for a minute. Half of the enjoyment in the game is derived from hit, hit, move out, move in, repeat?

They're terrible examples because they're something you/others are doing to themselves, and they're really not particularly advantageous methods from methods more accepted as the "correct" way to do them, save for the ability to get them done a little earlier in the game. If you're at the point where this is a thing you could/would do, those fights aren't a challenge one way or the other, making the exploit not really a problem.

yes that's combat...

They are far from terrible because it shortens the play through you would play the game on average reducing the lifespan of enjoyment you have. Whether or not they are challenging are not something I even considered but rather I said they are offered as the most difficult bosses, every single exploit should have some thought put into it and this is one that would need some fixing just like there was an even easier way to kill dragonfly that was hot fixed asap. For those that don't it was the freeze and burn glitch.

[Faintly Macabre]

9 minutes ago, WorstNightmare said:

You've asked me have I been really reading your post

No, I didn't. I asked if you'd read what I was replying to.

11 minutes ago, WorstNightmare said:

These aren't correct ways to defend yourself, anyone can simply say I have not done that although the posts says otherwise.

I'm not defending myself; I don't require defense. Any reasonable person who can read can see that your accusation that I don't think the game needs to improve or that absolutely anything should change is nonsense.

13 minutes ago, WorstNightmare said:

You completely skipped over the question I asked and those statements have no reasons to be included besides to once again start "bashing me" for your own personal feel of being right.

You stipulated "without all the exaggeration," a challenge I'm not going to take. There is no one literally stomping, crying, or saying the sky is falling. If I have to show you examples of that actually happening, I can't. (And neither care to, nor think is necessary)

16 minutes ago, WorstNightmare said:

For one, misuse of these terms are your own rightful opinion

Grammar has rules, son. You're breaking them. It's not a matter of opinion.

18 minutes ago, WorstNightmare said:

Why should I quit?

Because your attempts to pepper "mature" words into your posts make them harder to understand than they need to be.

13 minutes ago, WorstNightmare said:

every single exploit should have some thought put into it

I've never

ever

EVER

suggested they shouldn't be. I've questioned the alleged urgency of doing so, and their practical effect on the overall health of the game.

[WorstNightmare]

10 minutes ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

Grammar has rules, son. You're breaking them. It's not a matter of opinion.

I'm not your son, I'm going to forget you've said that. I can't say that's completely wrong I have made mistakes in posts and I don't see my fixing it since it doesn't warrant any serious discussion on it. I can understand myself and I have spoken to many people and nothing was misunderstood so, once again it is your opinion.

[Faintly Macabre]

10 minutes ago, WorstNightmare said:

I can understand myself

Being able to understand yourself: super important when it comes to communication.

10 minutes ago, WorstNightmare said:

nothing was misunderstood

Nothing you're aware of. People won't necessarily bother others to clarify what they've said. Especially when they suspect there's nothing of value there anyway. Like

29 minutes ago, WorstNightmare said:

They are far from terrible because it shortens the play through you would play the game on average reducing the lifespan of enjoyment you have.

this. It's so mangled I don't understand what you were trying to convey, but wasn't going to say anything because I suspected I wouldn't care if I did.

13 minutes ago, WorstNightmare said:

so, once again it is your opinion.

As you yourself noted, a statement is not true just because you say it is. That you frequently break grammar rules is not a matter of opinion. If you're saying that it's merely my opinion that you should stop typing the way you do because of that, then that's true. Self-evident and meaningless, but true.

[Arlesienne]

What page will this get locked on? Because I am getting a creeping suspicion this is turning into a personal exchange.

[WorstNightmare]

I agree this argument went off topic after this post.

4 hours ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

No, I didn't. I asked if you'd read what I was replying to.

...

Right into unnecessary remarks to small grammar mistakes. Better to just continue in PM's, otherwise I have no reason to keep it going. 

[GiddyGuy]

1 hour ago, Arlesienne said:

What page will this get locked on? Because I am getting a creeping suspicion this is turning into a personal exchange.

Spoiler

 

[ImDaMisterL]

This thread has been going quite off-topic.

I'm going to be locking it.