Simple solution for the griefing

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

that kind of situations and ways of gameplay isn't what my suggestions are looking to address. If griefing is the reason you're isolating yoyrself from other players, well, might as well just go and play single player or on a lone server. This game is about cooperation but since some things aren't being touched upon, they are left open to ruining the experience for a lot of people by a few.

Yes, my suggestions might be very similar to that of ecisting mods, but they are not exactly the same. As you've stated, they have many flaws, though these flaws cannot be applied to what I've suggested since I've thought of solutions that are quite tad bit different which is a completely different game changer; one where these flaws are not as common from what I can see (not that this has been done in practice yet though) or non-existant because of how carefully cooked the suggestions I've made are. I think about DST a lot, so it would be expected, don't you think?

[Arlesienne]

A quick jump-in: which part of the code originally DID target the players? One wishing to bring it back can just try to reimplement it.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

6 hours ago, Arlesienne said:

A quick jump-in: which part of the code originally DID target the players? One wishing to bring it back can just try to reimplement it.

You mean via mods? Or hax?

[mathem99]

On 14/7/2016 at 7:14 PM, Asparagus said:

You can never have to much salt.

 

[CarlZalph]

7 hours ago, Arlesienne said:

A quick jump-in: which part of the code originally DID target the players? One wishing to bring it back can just try to reimplement it.

scripts/components/spellcaster.lua:154-159::

    return self.canuseontargets and (
            (self.canonlyuseonrecipes and AllRecipes[target.prefab] ~= nil) or
            (self.canonlyuseonlocomotors and target.components.locomotor ~= nil and (TheNet:GetPVPEnabled() or not (target:HasTag("player") and doer:HasTag("player")))) or
            (self.canonlyuseonworkable and target.components.workable ~= nil and target.components.workable:CanBeWorked() and IsWorkAction(target.components.workable:GetWorkAction())) or
            (self.canonlyuseoncombat and doer.components.combat ~= nil and doer.components.combat:CanTarget(target))
        )

 

[Arlesienne]

On 19.07.2016 at 5:39 PM, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

You mean via mods? Or hax?

Either mods or editing the LUA themselves.

[SeventhRat]

On 14.7.2016 at 7:57 PM, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

So, you want to deal with griefers after they have started griefing not have a solution before it starts so that it deosn't happen in the first place? Okay fine. Totally fine. Nah, I'm okay with that. Seriously though. This is not the way to do things! AAAAAAAA!

You're right, it has to be stopped before it happens. There's no shortage of griefers. Ban or kill one and ten more show up.

I would solve the problem with a land claim block similar to what 7 Days to Die has, except it doesn't protect structures, it prevents anyone else from entering that area. The area would have to be small enough to prevent hoarding and making most of the map inaccessible to other players, and it shouldn't block any possible narrow paths. It should be safe from fire, natural traps and Deerclops. This would kill some of the challenge, but I can't think of any other way to prevent a griefer from luring Deerclops to a base. The Eyebone should be thrown out if placed anywhere but the owner's inventory within this area. Probably Glommer's Flower too.

If you start adding protection from and to individual objects, it gets complex and there will always be loopholes. The Ownership mod sounds great, but as you can read in the comments, the author ran into this very problem.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

4 hours ago, SeventhRat said:

You're right, it has to be stopped before it happens. There's no shortage of griefers. Ban or kill one and ten more show up.

I would solve the problem with a land claim block similar to what 7 Days to Die has, except it doesn't protect structures, it prevents anyone else from entering that area. The area would have to be small enough to prevent hoarding and making most of the map inaccessible to other players, and it shouldn't block any possible narrow paths. It should be safe from fire, natural traps and Deerclops. This would kill some of the challenge, but I can't think of any other way to prevent a griefer from luring Deerclops to a base If a griefer lures Deerclops to base, well, that's what Deerclops does and is supposed to do (destroy bases/structures), so even though intended, isn't technically not griefing.. The Eyebone should be thrown out if placed anywhere but the owner's inventory within this area. Probably Glommer's Flower too. If you're talking about yourself then this has A LOT of problems, starting with the fact that land is finite.

If you start adding protection from and to individual objects That isn't exactly what I was suggesting, it gets complex and there will always be loopholes. The Ownership mod sounds great, but as you can read in the comments, the author ran into this very problem. Have you read my suggestions? Have you evaluated them? I'll provide them here for you in case you haven't:

* Players cannot light structures on fire at all (or under certain, really specific conditions). This would also get rid of the exploit of lighting a drying rack on fire and getting jerky instantly after it burns, which means so long as you have a bunch of grass, twigs and charcoal to spare (and a hammer or two) you can pretty much get a lot of instant jerky.

* Players cannot light any items/plants/structures on fire if they can cause chain reaction (next to one another flammable item/plant/structure) OR players cannot light any items/plants/structures on fire if there are more than 3 (or whatever other number, depending on effectiveness (against griefing) and necessity (players needing to burn things to stay warm/get charcoal)) other flammable items/plants/structures next to each other within 3 or 4 turf radius from the item/plant/structure being attempted to lit.

* Players not being able to place down campfires (just the small campfires) or any flammable items/plants/structure next to an already smoldering/burning item/plant/structure.

* Some structures having more hammer hits to hammer (e.g. Ice Flingomatic having 20 hits, Chests having 6 or 8, Signs still having the 4 etc.)

* When you hammer a structure, unless it;s a sign, you can't pick up anything for 10 or so seconds.

* If something has been hit by a hammer/hit by rocks from earthquakes, you could repair it via some type of item to full amount of durability (e.g. A crock pot hit once would have 11 hits left, so you could repair it via Cutstone to get it back to full 12 hits or something. Could repair from 1 to 12 hits as well with just 1 custone). For various strucutres, this would be different (e.g. For Ice flingomatics, Ice boxes and Crock pots it would be custone, for science machines rocks and logs, for alchemy engines custone or boards, for shadow manipulators living logs, for chests and prestihatitators boards etc.). If something has full hit durab, you could not repair it, so you could easily know whether something is damaged and needs repairs or not. In the situation of griefing, you could prevent a griefer from fully hammering things by repairing them whilst they are hammering them, preventing them from hammering that thing (e.g. flingo) until they get banned/kicked.

* Hammer requiring 3 moonrocks instead of rocks, but having x10 durability than currently (750).

* Safe - a structure requiring 1 gear and 4 cutstone and an alchemy engine to craft, which could only be hammered whilst open, could not be burnt, has 6 inventory slots and can have a lock attached to it. Can still be destroyed by Deerclops or Bearger.

* Lock - could craft from one moon rock and an alchemy engine to craft, which could be attached to an ice box or a safe. With this, you can prevent Ice Boxes of being hammered by players unless it's opened by them. The players who could open these structures are those who know the code or have a Lock Pick. You could perhaps also  tell only one person in some way what the code is, in case there is somebody next to you whom you don't want to tell the code of your safe(s) to.

* Lock Pick - an item requiring 2 thulecite fragments, needing at least a broken ancient altar to craft and having 10 durability. This would allow you to remove locks from safes/ice boxes to prevent them from being overused when unnecessary. A good strategy would be to keep lock picks inside a safe to which you know the code to, so that only your friends and people you trust can access them.

* Spider nests cannot be placed near any structures or roads/ cobblestone and spider queen cannot turn into a tier 1 nest too close to any structures or roads/cobblestone. The radius could perhaps be 10 turfs.

* Tentacle book cannot be read near spawn points/portal or close to certain structures, such as drying racks, farms or research machines. The radius for spawnpoints and portal (perhaps 5 - 10 turfs) would be much greater than for specific structures (perhaps 2 - 3 turfs).

 

Perhaps the suggestions themselves might not be too great but the approach of changing the mechanics so that griefing itself doesn't happen in the first place is the only thing that can deal with it more or less for good. Everything else is just dealing with it after it happens, which isn't all that useful if the damage gets done.

[Muche]

19 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

* Tentacle book cannot be read near spawn points/portal or close to certain structures, such as drying racks, farms or research machines. The radius for spawnpoints and portal (perhaps 5 - 10 turfs) would be much greater than for specific structures (perhaps 2 - 3 turfs).

Maybe it would be better to add new condition to tentacle's spawn location check instead of reading location check. And to make the distance the same as when you're trying to build a structure, because, you know, creating a tentacle field and placing a science machine in the middle of it should be the same as placing a science machine and then creating a tentacle field around it.

[hyiltiz]

So, we didn't solve it after all those discussions.

[Arlesienne]

6 hours ago, hyiltiz said:

So, we didn't solve it after all those discussions.

Whoever gets to sensibly end this cyclum deserves a tragic Potato Cup.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

8 hours ago, hyiltiz said:

So, we didn't solve it after all those discussions.

Have you read all of the discussion? And what exactly was the problem you're talking about? Griefing? Nah, it can't be dealt with well enough with the current game mechanics as it stands, as far as I'm aware, I'm afraid. Klei needs some nudging if we want some ways to deal with it. But it's not like they read suggestions on the forums. At least I don't think they do :/

[ButterStuffed]

1 hour ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Have you read all of the discussion? And what exactly was the problem you're talking about? Griefing? Nah, it can't be dealt with well enough with the current game mechanics as it stands, as far as I'm aware, I'm afraid. Klei needs some nudging if we want some ways to deal with it. But it's not like they read suggestions on the forums. At least I don't think they do :/

Several previous updates had changes that were clearly influenced by similar threads to this one.

I'm sure they're paying attention to their own forum.

[leonseye]

In most situations, if it's only 1 or 2 griefers (or rather, normal players outnumber griefers) their behavior is generally easily curbed once you realize what's going on.  Not saying that this is trivial, but it's manageable w/ some effort.

However, when trolls / griefers come onto a server in groups and begin taking advantage of mechanics like vote kick, etc, they become UNmanageable and this becomes an almost completely unwinnable situation.

Introducing full-time PvP to the mix makes the latter situation SO. MUCH. WORSE.

And it still doesn't make the first scenario any better.  I don't think this is a great solution, personally.

Then again, I'm more about preventative measures than reactive ones.

PS)  The ONLY actual "simple" solution to griefers is to play w/ friends only on private servers.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

2 hours ago, leonseye said:

In most situations, if it's only 1 or 2 griefers (or rather, normal players outnumber griefers) their behavior is generally easily curbed once you realize what's going on.  Not saying that this is trivial, but it's manageable w/ some effort.

However, when trolls / griefers come onto a server in groups and begin taking advantage of mechanics like vote kick, etc, they become UNmanageable and this becomes an almost completely unwinnable situation.

Introducing full-time PvP to the mix makes the latter situation SO. MUCH. WORSE.

And it still doesn't make the first scenario any better.  I don't think this is a great solution, personally.

Then again, I'm more about preventative measures than reactive ones.

PS)  The ONLY actual "simple" solution to griefers is to play w/ friends only on private servers.

So, it's thanks to you I came up with a whole bunch of ideas people hate... I'm curious as to what your input is on my approaches or even particular suggestions in terms of dealing with griefing... I should probably keep a notepad of all the suggestions I've written somewhere so I don't have to repeat myself over and over.

[leonseye]

3 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

So, it's thanks to you I came up with a whole bunch of ideas people hate... I'm curious as to what your input is on my approaches or even particular suggestions in terms of dealing with griefing... I should probably keep a notepad of all the suggestions I've written somewhere so I don't have to repeat myself over and over.

lol, I didn't mean to leave you hanging in that other thread, but I became quite busy w/ work around that time.  Please forgive me.

And you'll notice that people actually like reactive measures, for the vindication that it brings, especially when they are emotional or passionate about having been "wronged".  Preventative measures are boring.  They pretty much never get as much traction, even though I find them to be more effective and better for communities overall in the long run.