Maxwell puppets

[NootNoot]

I find the Maxwell shadow clones are quite annoying, TBH. They automatically chop and dig absolutely everything they can, the loot gets left everywhere, and treeguards show up left and right! I have 1 of 2 ideas.
1: Maxwells will not chop or dig unless you begin chopping
2: You will be able to somehow put the minions into the Codex Umbre and place them directly from the Umbre

[Asparagus]

Yes! I kinda find the logger quite annoying at times when I want to only have them chop down the big trees O__O

[Fidooop]

the miners seem ok since there aren't any downsides to mining down everything

[BlindGunner]

Meh i feel like a downside to his OP wood gathering rate is fair. His loggers should slow down to half the rate or something if they do this though because (as much as i didnt want to admit it..) Maxwell is putting Woodie to shame.

[BASTIL]

Imo guy with shovel kinda sucks. When he digs grave and there is ghost from it, ghost instantly kills my puppet.

[DwerBomb]

Maxwell's loggers are killing Woodie. The character's purpose was to gather wood for the group but...now Maxwell can do it by himself, faster and more productive. The good AI for the puppets made them too OP, ruining the balance of another character. 

Noot noot I really like your first suggestion, along a nerf on their speed of chopping. Woodie should be the only one able to chop that fast!

 

Edit:

The puppets are causing various gameplay problems: loggers are not really that useful and the free grave digging is something maxwell doesn't need, as his sanity regenerates.

Choppers are making Woodie useless.

Miners are fine

Duelists are good, and limiting them at 2 was a good balanced choice

 

From this I think that we shouldn't have all these puppets but just two kinds: Workers and Duelists.

Workers could be equipped with tools and they'll do the task the tool is used for. The tool will be placed in a personal 1 slot inventory they have, and be consumed as they work. Their working speed should also be nerfed back to the normal speed. You can take the tool out, dismissing them from their work, by taking the item out of their inventory.

Duelists work the same as they do now 

[Muttbutt]

I don't want to make this a big deal, but Maxwell is perfectly fine, and Woodie needs a major rework. 

Woodie wasn't made useless because loggers can do his job better, but now has help. Maxwell's puppets are a very hard counter to Woodie's one weakness of keeping up his log meter, freeing him to do other things. Its Don't Starve TOGETHER. If you have problems with puppets chopping down trees you don't want them to or leaving resources everywhere, become familiar with Maxwell's learning curve and micromanaging. 

Maxwell's low health, no starting armor, and the cost to make the puppets keep Max in check. Woodie is the one that could use a buff. His werebeaver has more bad than good attributes, and Lucy can only be so much help. 

Maxwell is balanced, but what is annoying is that the puppets wil stop the tree/rock they're working on and help Max when he doesn't need it when he starts to work. 

 

[BlindGunner]

14 hours ago, Muttbutt said:

 

Maxwell is balanced, but what is annoying is that the puppets wil stop the tree/rock they're working on and help Max when he doesn't need it when he starts to work. 

 

He is way too strong for gathering. I'll admit, I don't know how much wood Woodie can get on day one, but as maxwell, not even devoting my 100% to wood collection (exploring a bit, only two shadow choppers of the three I could have and not chopping myself) I can gather 200 wood on day one. That's a problem.

[Muttbutt]

3 hours ago, BlindGunner said:

I can gather 200 wood on day one. That's a problem.

What's the problem there? You'd think it would help in your survival in the long term since it is a survival game. You got as much as you did because you're using two puppets, which puts you at a much higher risk. Higher risk of you going insane because of your lower sanity pool, Higher risk of losing your puppets because they only have 1 hp, and higher risk of losing the materials you used to make the puppets, not to mention the constant risk of you being able two-shot by about half of the enemies in-game if you don't have armor on. 200 wood sounds like a lot, but trust me, once you dedicated a day to chopping trees and digging up stumps, then using the wood as boards or log suits; you'll see 200 isn't as big as a number as you say it is.

[BlindGunner]

5 hours ago, Muttbutt said:

Higher risk of you going insane because of your lower sanity pool

Precisely what Maxwell should be trying to do for the first ~10 days till he gets up his shadow manipulator

5 hours ago, Muttbutt said:

Higher risk of losing your puppets because they only have 1 hp,

To what? nothing seems to attack them, and if you mean treeguards, those aren't a thing till day three if the wiki is right.

5 hours ago, Muttbutt said:

able two-shot by about half of the enemies in-game if you don't have armor on

avoid combat. alternatively learn to kite. I'll admit this is a problem with lag.

5 hours ago, Muttbutt said:

200 isn't as big as a number as you say it is.

Thats more than a full chest of wood. That's plenty for a very long time for only one days worth of chopping, and like i said, this isnt even going 100%.

[Doctor Donna]

2 hours ago, BlindGunner said:

To what? nothing seems to attack them, and if you mean treeguards, those aren't a thing till day three if the wiki is right.

 

Hounds But I have no problem with that :3

 

 

 

I think Maxwell is balance BECAUSE the annoying puppets ^^

U can kill them.. and fine. Find some new nightmare fuel (by digging graves maybe)

His depperness is very high.. but Maxwell can be insane too for killing shadow creatures..

happy wormhole jumping

[SymKensaki]

I see little reason for why the lumberjack puppets chop as fast as they do, especially when the miners mine at the normal rate--The ability to casually gather resources while doing other things is more than enough on its own.  Besides, resource slaves should be no more capable than Maxwell himself.

 

Everything else seems reasonably balanced, though.  

[Muttbutt]

18 hours ago, BlindGunner said:

--

 Maybe we're on the wrong page here, I thought you meant early Maxwell, not day one Maxwell. If that's true, why would you have two loggers and not maybe a miner for the large amount of rocks you'll need later? Were you staying in place over night in a forest or walking through one and just picking up whatever wood the puppets cut as you went?

 I've lost puppets to hound attacks and teeguards, and while I know how to kite and fight things off, sometimes I don't notice in time before a puppet eats treeguard slap. I wouldn't use the wiki unless it's for absolutely basic information, and even with that the wiki says NORMALLY don't spawn until day three. Counting out set pieces, it is possible to get a treeguard earlier. I like having to protect my puppets as they get work done though, fighting a guard as three puppets clear his home is something magical.

 If you'd want to go insane, it doesn't make sense to make only two loggers, it'd make more sense to make two duelers and a logger INstead of four loggers for the fact that you'd be constantly insane and the slow regen wouldn't pull you from being insane. It uses less fuel too, more in the grass department, but less fuel. Maxwell in a single-player sense I understand the want for a fast shadow manipulator, but in multiplayer, other stuff needs to get done first. A place to call home needs to be found, a constant supply of food needs to be sorted for more than one player, resources are constantly being used and need replacing. Maybe that's just me, the thing about balancing what was meant to be only a single-player game to multiplayer is the vast number of play styles everyone can have for just one of the characters. Shadow Manipulator has many great uses, but the dark sword can be substituted with a hambat and football helmets (which Max should have almost 100% of the time anyway) for shadow armor until you're settled enough to work on a Shadow Manipulator. 

 My two friends and I are on day 128 as of right now, I'm Maxwell teamed with a Wickerbottom and WX. One thing I've noticed is that while I can collect large amounts of wood at one time or get tons of rocks, we still run out of these fairly quick. In fact, wood can even be a struggle because a forest is either spider-infested or I've been busy doing something else.

2 hours ago, SymKensaki said:

-- Besides, resource slaves should be no more capable than Maxwell himself.

But Maxwell's puppets aren't better than Maxwell at chopping, they just use what is called "fast-work" where you click on the bottom/top of the tree and hold space, canceling a part of the chopping animation and making you cut faster. Maxwell can do this too, but not easily due to lag. You can also mine faster by doing the same to your rocks. If any "slave" shouldn't be able to chop as fast as a player, pigs also need a nerf with that logic.

[dahl]

I find Maxwell as hard-play character not because his health but resources consumption. All his puppets give him sanity forfeit in opposed to original game where they just drain his sanity. Also they require rare resource - nightmarefuel in fact then they add up to 35% sanity penalty and have just 40 damage with Dark Sword. Would be nice if Waxwell tended to be able return a part of resources that he spent to his puppets if they die (or not) or just give him nightmarefuel recipe on start.

On 24.04.2016 at 7:41 AM, NootNoot said:

1: Maxwells will not chop or dig unless you begin chopping

And this also will be nice.
It's makes Waxwell a better despite his nerfing on dst, isn't it?

[fsp98]

I hate how other players (noobs/trolls/griefers) can easily kill your puppets, so I would make them invulnerable to others. Only Maxwell and maybe other mobs should be able to kill them. Also, the axe puppets should be slowed down.

[BlindGunner]

Just like to add that after testing (not extensively) Maxwell and Woodie both can end up with ~200 logs on day one. But Woodie would win if the contest were just who can get the most logs on the ground.