Permadeath in Don't Starve Together announced as OPTIONAL

[polygone]

+1. Unless they add more item slots. Am I the only one that thinks THAT's a good idea? I can understand why if I am.

*cough* Backpacks and amulets mod. *cough*

 

...seriously, the only time I ever wear any kind of amulet is if it's Summer and I have a chilled amulet, since it's almost always better to wear armor. And once I found out the backpack slot mod exists I haven't played without it since. Kind of annoying having to drop a backpack just because something showed up that you have to fight. Suddenly you can't run away any more because half your supplies are on the floor behind the monster. To balance the backpack slot just take a slot out of the normal bar, that's what the backpack+ mod did (the version that updated to RoG). An amulet slot I don't really think is needed, the only reason that'd be particularly helpful is you could wear a life-giving amulet all the time just in case. The other amulets you just put on when you need them, since you wouldn't want to freeze to death or suffer permenant insanity effects...

 

That said, having an amulet slot would somewhat justify permadeath in multiplayer more, since you could always wear a life-giving amulet and that'd solve that. Main problem with it being that when you revive you're left with no stuff next to whatever killed you, and we still never figured out a good way of doing sleep effects...

 

[Decelexevi]

Oh we cool man.

First thing you learn on the internet is to not take things too personally. :B

 

How about this as a compromise? Someone just makes a sandbox mod. I'll accept it. Mods are ubiquitous enough in games like this. But if they decide to put it in anyway just take it with a grain of salt.

 

 

*cough* Backpacks and amulets mod. *cough*

 

...seriously, the only time I ever wear any kind of amulet is if it's Summer and I have a chilled amulet, since it's almost always better to wear armor. And once I found out the backpack slot mod exists I haven't played without it since. Kind of annoying having to drop a backpack just because something showed up that you have to fight. Suddenly you can't run away any more because half your supplies are on the floor behind the monster. To balance the backpack slot just take a slot out of the normal bar, that's what the backpack+ mod did (the version that updated to RoG). An amulet slot I don't really think is needed, the only reason that'd be particularly helpful is you could wear a life-giving amulet all the time just in case. The other amulets you just put on when you need them, since you wouldn't want to freeze to death or suffer permenant insanity effects...

 

That said, having an amulet slot would somewhat justify permadeath in multiplayer more, since you could always wear a life-giving amulet and that'd solve that. Main problem with it being that when you revive you're left with no stuff next to whatever killed you, and we still never figured out a good way of doing sleep effects...

 

 

My problem is I always have to have a backpack on because there's too many things I'm obsessed over always having on me at all times even when I probably don't absolutely need them. (Another reason I like Wigfrid, I'll never run out of gold to keep crafting helmets and I'll almost never need the extra damage absorption, hence I can always run around with my bag on)

 

But I'm also a base game junkie. Anything outside of a full conversion mod feels like a level of cheating or has a level of genericism. Good mods that make the game objectively better should be absorbed into the newer release versions anyway and good modders are hired into good teams. Balance can be struck regardless. I'm sure there's some way to have both armor and a backpack on in the base game and simply tweak some opposing force to keep the challenge the same. It could be one of a thousand things.

 

That's why you'll see me in the suggestion threads. I don't believe you can ever take something away from a game by adding something to it. Simply a not-so-simple matter of getting it right.

[ApolloTheElusive]

I'd like to see some sort of system that made a grave with a headstone where your friend dies, and you have to do some sort of, probably expensive, process to bring them back from the dead. 

[Tulingu]

As for the poll I voted on/off option. I wonder if we'll be able to host our own servers, heck gotta do something with these 16GB of RAM...

 

I'd like to see some sort of system that made a grave with a headstone where your friend dies, and you have to do some sort of, probably expensive, process to bring them back from the dead.

I don't agree on the latter but it would be pretty fun if the game actually produced gravestones where players died before. A memory of failure xD

Of course you can mine these gravestones, I mean, you don't want to have a bunch of those stuck in the middle of your base in case you got attacked multiple times.

[CaptainClam]

As for the poll I voted on/off option. I wonder if we'll be able to host our own servers, heck gotta do something with these 16GB of RAM...

 

I don't agree on the latter but it would be pretty fun if the game actually produced gravestones where players died before. A memory of failure xD

Of course you can mine these gravestones, I mean, you don't want to have a bunch of those stuck in the middle of your base in case you got attacked multiple times.

And the grave contains their inventory?

[ARamblingSpider]

The heated debate goes on.

[TortuousAugur]

I personally think the availability of an option during world gen (much like how RoG has an option) would be the best solution. If this really is an option that the developers have yet to finalize yet, why should one group of players be left out on how they would like to multi play the game? If there is an option to toggle it, everyone gets exactly what they wanted...

 

After giving some thought to the non-permanent side of resurrection, here is what I came up with. (Sorry if I'm going over something that has already been said. I skimmed through the topic, but didn't read every single post.)

 

Players that are still alive could have the ability to craft an item similar to the meat effigy for another player to reincarnate, but would be separate from one they craft for themselves, including higher material cost and/or harder to obtain materials, or even materials that don't spawn (or stay in the world to prevent hoarding of said items) unless there is a player connected that is not currently alive.

 

Players that have yet to connect to a given world should be able to connect freely the first time, with no additional cost or penalty.

 

If it is done that way, there is still a heavy price to pay to resurrect a player that did not secure their own safety net, and it leaves it up to the players to decide if the situation is worth salvaging at that point, or if they would rather just start a new world.

 

Deceased players should have a visible in-game sprite (like that of Wendy's sister Abigail), be able to use any in-game chat feature implemented, but only be able to wander a short distance from a player. Maybe they could also see in the dark? *shrug*

[J20hawkz]

I hope @simplex doesn't mind me posting this here: http://forums.kleientertainment.com/files/file/386-compromising-survival/

If mods use is something that Don't Starve Together supports, who's to say something like this won't be used?

So does it really matter if we have an option or not? These mods technically give us the option and also allows the developers to save time/resources by implementing the same permadeath system from Don't Starve, expecting us to use mods like this if we so choose.

[Spazmatic]

I hope @simplex doesn't mind me posting this here: http://forums.kleientertainment.com/files/file/386-compromising-survival/

If mods use is something that Don't Starve Together supports, who's to say something like this won't be used?

So does it really matter if we have an option or not? These mods technically give us the option and also allows the developers to save time/resources by implementing the same permadeath system from Don't Starve, expecting us to use mods like this if we so choose.

This is how it should be, if anyone wants to make the game easier than is intended, they should use mods( ofc if they will be a thing for DST). Oh if Klei could give their stance on topics like permadeath in DST already...

[simplex]

This is how it should be, if anyone wants to make the game easier than is intended, they should use mods( ofc if they will be a thing for DST). Oh if Klei could give their stance on topics like permadeath in DST already...

I fully agree. If a server wants to disable permadeath, make food not spoil, give tools infinite durability, etc., it should be free to use mods to accomplish this goal. On the other hand, I think the unmodded game should not offer the option to disable permadeath. It's too much of a fundamental characteristic of Don't Starve, allowing players to simply toggle it off would go against the spirit of the game.

[AcD]

i think if the player that is deceased can be resurrected by another player with an lighting strike or dragon pie , or be finished off with a weapon resulting taking all his stuff

 

[---------------]

Permadeath is Don't Starve's core. It's what actually makes carefully plan your decisions. It's what makes every day passed a little victory on itself. I'm all in for means to resurrection , but otherwise once someone is dead, i really think they should stay dead. And yes, you will die. You will rage. But that's what makes it all so worth it when you succeed.  So no, in my opinion Permadeath should stay. And to be really honest, I really think that there should be no option whatsoever to turn it off. 

[snakdel123]

I DISAGRE

[J20hawkz]

I DISAGRE

*Disagree with what? No permadeath? If so, don't forget to vote mate.

[spiritcrusher77]

It should definitely be optional. I mean, seriously. When permadeath is enabled, it shouldn't be like "You are kicked from this specific game forever. You can never play again." You should be kicked, and have to rejoin and restart. Your stuff would still be where you died, so other people can find it, of course. But your map should be blacked out, and your inventory should be dropped. That way you can't just go immediately back to pick your stuff back up.

[jbeetle]

It should definitely be optional. I mean, seriously. When permadeath is enabled, it shouldn't be like "You are kicked from this specific game forever. You can never play again." You should be kicked, and have to rejoin and restart. Your stuff would still be where you died, so other people can find it, of course. But your map should be blacked out, and your inventory should be dropped. That way you can't just go immediately back to pick your stuff back up.

So essentially, death would mean nothing since your friends would just get most of your stuff for you and the map wouldn't matter since you have a general idea of where everything is already, and if you didn't, your friends would know for a fact. Nah, not a good idea.

 

But if you're saying there should be mods, then yea, totally.

[spiritcrusher77]

So essentially, death would mean nothing since your friends would just get most of your stuff for you and the map wouldn't matter since you have a general idea of where everything is already, and if you didn't, your friends would know for a fact. Nah, not a good idea.

 

But if you're saying there should be mods, then yea, totally.

Well it wouldn't really be fair to not let them play on the server. It's not like they're getting banned. Not to mention that they'll randomly be spawned somewhere else in the map. Maybe there could be some notification to the other people on the server, like "Someone died here!" and then put a marker or waypoint on the map. That way, they would have little to no chance of getting their stuff back.

[J20hawkz]

What I'm saying is Permadeath should be in Don't Starve Together, but to make sure we don't lose everything early on we should be given a free revive item straight off the bat.

Dying within 10-12 days would be a pain for everyone who has to start over for a friend everytime. If you can't find a touch stone within 15 days then you're not exploring well enough so no excuses.

This new revive item isn't the same as the Life Giving Amulet however. It has a durability of say...15 days, after that time it turns to rot or just disappears. Or to reward us for surviving early game we get 1 gold or something trivial from it once its durability reaches zero.

I want to call it Spark of Life or Amulet of Rebirth.

Thoughts?

[spiritcrusher77]

What I'm saying is Permadeath should be in Don't Starve Together, but to make sure we don't lose everything early on we should be given a free revive item straight off the bat.

Dying within 10-12 days would be a pain for everyone who has to start over for a friend everytime. If you can't find a touch stone within 15 days then you're not exploring well enough so no excuses.

This new revive item isn't the same as the Life Giving Amulet however. It has a durability of say...15 days, after that time it turns to rot or just disappears. Or to reward us for surviving early game we get 1 gold or something trivial from it once its durability reaches zero.

I want to call it Spark of Life or Amulet of Rebirth.

Thoughts?

No offense, but that sounds like a horrible idea. You don't have very much to lose in those first 10-12 days anyway. Well, I do, but most don't. You don't get that in the normal game, and with expectations from Klei of a 2-4 player limit, I honestly doubt the other players will have an effect that huge. At the most, this Spark of Life thing should be optional, the same with permadeath.

[jbeetle]

Well it wouldn't really be fair to not let them play on the server. It's not like they're getting banned. Not to mention that they'll randomly be spawned somewhere else in the map. Maybe there could be some notification to the other people on the server, like "Someone died here!" and then put a marker or waypoint on the map. That way, they would have little to no chance of getting their stuff back.

It's completely fair. I'd understand if there were a billion ways to die that you couldn't control, but other than players killing each other, everything is completely preventable. Not only that, it's easily prepared for. There are 3 ways to prevent death in the base game, and 2 of those are free. and with 4 people, I don't even see HOW you could die to the world.

Not only that, but this isn't a massive scale game. It's meant to be played in many different worlds, but through many deaths. Part of the game is starting over. But I'm really just beginning to repeat myself (not to you, but in this thread), so I'll stop.

 

I hear they're going to make a new spinoff game: "Don't Starve, Even Though You Virtually Can't Anyway"

[spiritcrusher77]

It's completely fair. I'd understand if there were a billion ways to die that you couldn't control, but other than players killing each other, everything is completely preventable. Not only that, it's easily prepared for. There are 3 ways to prevent death in the base game, and 2 of those are free.

Not only that, but this isn't a massive scale game. It's meant to be played in many different worlds, but through many deaths. Part of the game is starting over. But I'm really just beginning to repeat myself (not to you, but in this thread), so I'll stop.

How is it fair at all? Also, the amulet is sometimes free, if you find it in a grave, not always. I'm repeating myself as well though, and I can't really think of any way to get you to agree with me, so I don't see a point in furthering this argument.

[jbeetle]

How is it fair at all? 

It's fair because of what I said, you can prepare for everything. The only time you wouldn't is if you were new, and in my opinion, the best time for playing the game is when you're new to it because you're figuring all that stuff out. Once you have, only your own mistakes will screw you over.

 

More than likely, they won't take a pure stance in favor of permadeath. Just like they added touchstones for that same reason, they'll probably make it even easier through some other method. I'm prepared for it. My hope is just that they don't go too far in that direction, and your suggestion is definitely that.

[spiritcrusher77]

It's fair because of what I said, you can prepare for everything. The only time you wouldn't is if you were new, and in my opinion, the best time for playing the game is when you're new to it because you're figuring all that stuff out. Once you have, only your own mistakes will screw you over.

 

More than likely, they won't take a pure stance in favor of permadeath. Just like they added touchstones for that same reason, they'll probably make it even easier through some other method. I'm prepared for it. My hope is just that they don't go too far in that direction, and your suggestion is definitely that.

Like I said before, banning and permadeath should be completely different. Give the player some sort of penalty on their health or other stats, or something, but stopping them from playing on the server is ridiculous. 

[J20hawkz]

No offense, but that sounds like a horrible idea. You don't have very much to lose in those first 10-12 days anyway. Well, I do, but most don't. You don't get that in the normal game, and with expectations from Klei of a 2-4 player limit, I honestly doubt the other players will have an effect that huge. At the most, this Spark of Life thing should be optional, the same with permadeath.

That's not the problem though. If you read through this thread I feel that the main issue with permadeath is dying too soon and losing everything. My concern is having to repeatedly start a new game early on because a friend dies so soon. So we get to day 5 and bam someone dies, we don't want to play without him/her so we start a new server. Game 2 someone else dies on day 4, again we have to start a new game. You'll be surprised how often someone will die by accident early on. We get asked this a lot on the steam forum, how to survive and setup base etc...

If we could find a touch stone guaranteed within the first few days I don't see a problem. Otherwise I believe my Spark of Life or Amulet of Rebirth idea solves this cycle of starting a new game for silly deaths early on.

If I died in Single player and had to start over, that's my fault and my problem. I personally would be quite annoyed if people died early on and I had to start a new game just to play with them.

Edit: otherwise then I won't feel the need to play with strangers, I'll start games with people I know are good and that will be that. But is this what Klei want? Or do they want a game that brings everyone together and have fun? I'm sure it's the latter.

[spiritcrusher77]

That's not the problem though. If you read through this thread I feel that the main issue with permadeath is dying too soon and losing everything. My concern is having to repeatedly start a new game early on because a friend dies so soon. So we get to day 5 and bam someone dies, we don't want to play without him/her so we start a new server. Game 2 someone else dies on day 4, again we have to start a new game. You'll be surprised how often someone will die by accident early on. We get asked this a lot on the steam forum, how to survive and setup base etc...

If we could find a touch stone guaranteed within the first few days I don't see a problem. Otherwise I believe my Spark of Life or Amulet of Rebirth idea solves this cycle of starting a new game for silly deaths early on.

If I died in Single player and had to start over, that's my fault and my problem. I personally would be quite annoyed if people died early on and I had to start a new game just to play with them.

Edit: otherwise then I won't feel the need to play with strangers, I'll start games with people I know are good and that will be that. But is this what Klei want? Or do they want a game that brings everyone together and have fun? I'm sure it's the latter.

(Funny, I was going to use the friend example when I was talking with that one guy.)

Read my first post in this thread on page 11, that's my take on it.