Permadeath in Don't Starve Together announced as OPTIONAL

[lone wolf]

I think that some people might like the challenge of permadeath. However, in general, it's important to keep session turnover times in mind. Unless there's some way that a dead player can still be a part of the game (becoming a ghost like Abigail, for instance), being dead means not playing, and not having fun. Now, on the surface you might think, "Yeah, of course. That's the penalty for dying.", but it's certainly not in singleplayer. In the singleplayer game, death means a loss of progress, but you can still get right back into the game. So I would say it shouldn't be the default setting.

 

Leave it as something which may be selected. That way, people playing just to have fun can leave it off. Players that are okay with waiting for the other players to lose, on the other hand, would have their option as well, whether it be used simply to make the game more tense, or for "Mindcrack UHC" style competitive elimination matches (for those of you who know what that is).

this is what i dont get about some people another slider wouldn't hurt i like challenge im no fan of perma day and whnen you think about it freezing/overheating thtas a big annoying mechanic simmilar to perma death thne there monsters another thing out to kill you each with their own mechanics night/charlie also have their mechanics sanity problems another mechanic this list can go on and on but why are some people so "this mechanic has to stay cuz it makes the game the game" but remvoing all these litle mechanics would be alot worse then geting the option for perma death, hell, perma death would still be a thing like this guy suggested a slider wont affect you it wont hurt you why go against it im sure that people will play together and become closer but they may get further away due to one messing up the other one (wont be too far away i hope cuz its just a game but still) and im sure if you take away every mechanic that makes dont starve hard other then perma death it would lead up to be more boring dont get me wqrong i like permadeath but why are so many people agaisnt a simple slider yes we already have plenty but perma death not everyone likes so why must it all go to one crowd over another?

[jbeetle]

we have plenty of sliders already that are anti-permadeath, you realize.

[lone wolf]

we have plenty of sliders already that are anti-permadeath, you realize.

i know i just like the idea of some way to revive like not automatic but as i stated earlier the shadow revive is a good idea there are plenty out there. i just don't like the fact that making the game ez mode i mean i like bosses when its easy there is no way to progress same goes for no perma death but as stated in a different thread maby you could get a revive like my suggestion a character with weaker stats or something i just dont like having to start over with friends its nice to get a fresh start but one slider ONE slider how much will that hurt you ? it wont. i like hard but im not into permadeath whatsoever i egt rthat we have plenty of anit permadeath sliders you don't have to bring it up another time i get it okay? but  seriously just beacuase one major crowd wants something dosent mean a somewhat smaller crowd should get the exact same thing and have to deal with it when there suggestions are not going to affect the larger crowd in any way.

[jbeetle]

i know i just like the idea of some way to revive like not automatic but as i stated earlier the shadow revive is a good idea there are plenty out there. i just don't like the fact that making the game ez mode i mean i like bosses when its easy there is no way to progress same goes for no perma death but as stated in a different thread maby you could get a revive like my suggestion a character with weaker stats or something i just dont like having to start over with friends its nice to get a fresh start but one slider ONE slider how much will that hurt you ? it wont. i like hard but im not into permadeath whatsoever i egt rthat we have plenty of anit permadeath sliders you don't have to bring it up another time i get it okay? but  seriously just beacuase one major crowd wants something dosent mean a somewhat smaller crowd should get the exact same thing and have to deal with it when there suggestions are not going to affect the larger crowd in any way.

You're right. It's all about whether the devs agree with me or you. and once they decide, that'll be the end of that.

[Doctor H. Derp]

Other people. Someone. The whole idea of the sliders is that it's entirely up to each individual player.

 

And why would they be correct?

 

I have a 5 year old niece. If she wanted to just play don't starve to run around and click the pretty animals to hear their sounds I support her entirely. She's also a little young to get the feeding your character concept. When she's done I can start up a new world on the hardest difficulty and it's like it never happened. Sounds pretty benign to me.

 

I was born in 1986. I remember playing Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts in 1991, and you want to talk about children being unable to get difficult games? I don't believe for one second that your niece lacks the ability to figure out putting the food on your character makes them eat. They might not get it immediately, granted, but it's not like any of us immediately soared at our first attempts playing Don't Starve either.

 

Again, devil's advocate. I don't want to run around in a pointless petting zoo. A little kids sees the world differently than I do. They can play my game. I'm okay with that.

 

It would be a pointless petting zoo without permadeath. What difference does it make if you die to a bunch of spiders if there's no permadeath?

 

It means live up to your convictions and play the game the way it's meant to be played. Just because there's easy mode buttons doesn't mean you have to touch them. They don't even exist to you if you don't.

 

And I already don't.

You're not arguing the position for the inclusion of an easy mode, it already exists as I've illustrated practically a half-dozen times now. You're arguing for a mode to go one step easier. Might as well have a slider for Charlie, might as well have a slider for insanity and hunger.

 

How much further must the game be dismantled before we include everyone who, frankly, just simply sucks at the game and lacks the patience to get better at it like we all did?

 

Dude I totally see what you're saying until the end. But adding an option in the world generation menu to turn off death entirely? It's not going to kill Don't Starve for you. Because you aren't using it. Other people who want to use it don't affect you in any way at all. It's crazy pedantic to assume that such an option would 'kill the game'.

 

Yeah it kind of kills the game. It entirely kills any sort of necessity for safety-nets, it kills any sort of threat one might feel about a Deerclops coming in. I mean seriously, what's the worst he can do? Smash your base? Oh well, you can just rebuild that while you throw a dozen of your corpses at him until he inevitably loses that war of attrition. There's no actual concern involved. You're not gambling your world in a bid to save your base.

 

Read it again. I say "Is it?" not "It is". That same distinction can be found in question "Will it be?" rather than statement "It will be." I'm positing the question "Will the final product of multiplayer be easier?" The answer, to me, unknown.

 

Simple misunderstanding. Scratch it from the record.

 

Welp, no use holding you accountable for a position you're not defending then.

 

In games that's called a failure condition. Most games have those, maybe say... interactive story games like Dear Esther don't. Quite a few games don't have victory conditions. Look way back to the NES and games like Spy Hunter. Plenty of ways to die no doubt... but you can't actually achieve victory. If you complete the entire map it just sends you right back to the beginning in full stride in an endless loop.

 

Couldn't agree more with the second part though. Don't Starve is like Westeros. There are no winners. Just try not to lose. Not losing is winning enough.

 

It is true that there are games that don't have ways for the game to win. Sure. Don't Starve isn't one of those games.

 

I woudn't know. If they add that feature I'll forget about it 10 seconds later and never use it. Nothing will have changed. Unless my niece wants to play. Me not having to help her feed her character is like me not having to put quarters in the arcade machine to buy her another few minutes of animal petting.

 

Anyway, I'm just out to soften you to the idea on the behalf of the people who like it. Respect.

 

No, the fact that Don't Starve didn't care that you lost your entire world because you permanently died is the feature.

Again, going back to Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts, I died a lot. That game is tough as nails. I never beat it, but I'll never forget the satisfaction I had when I finally got through the first level. It seems in society today everyone needs their "Hey! You Participated!" Trophy. The whole achievement crap that's all over the place reeks of it because to get most of them all you have to do is have a pulse while you hold the controller. That's not an achievement.

 

Games don't need to be watered down because you or someone else over the internet sucks at it.

I might understand a slider to turn off permadeath if unfair random deaths were typical in Don't Starve, like say, maybe Dungeons of Dredmor where randomness can really screw you over in short order, but even then I keep permadeath on. Don't Starve? Every death was a fair death that I experienced. I'm certain the sweeping vast majority of deaths people experience in the game are fair deaths.

 

The game doesn't need a nerf, these players you're so worried about need to learn how to play the game. And how does one learn how to play Don't Starve? By making mistakes and learning from your deaths. Not trying to dodge the consequences.

[RalphKastro]

i like hard but im not into permadeath whatsoever i egt rthat we have plenty of anit permadeath sliders you don't have to bring it up another time i get it okay?

wait.... there's anything near to hard without permadeath?

and yes, adding a new slider affects the entire game, not just the people that mess with it. I was already against the idea of world customisation from the beginning, but they added it, means it's legit. Adding the option to change something in-game makes this change part of the game, which, in case of something that adds nothing to the game experience, only hurts it, like say, infinite health, never starving or no permadeath, just hurts the overall game, knowing that all that you lost with that huge series of mistakes could have been saved with just a click in a slider.

long story short: adding this as a option affects the entire game, which includes the players that don't chose it right away(kinda like the old bell "don't like it, don't use it" saying)

[Ridley]

A moleworm ringing an old bell is not a random way to die. You could hear it ring and you most certainly could see the screen shake as biiigfoot was coming.

 

Yeah, maybe a gamebreaking bug could cause you to die, but that's not an argument to remove a core mechanic of the game. We're not going to remove night just because night might become bugged and Charlie will attack during the day if one doesn't have a torch out all of a sudden, would we?

 

You really think Klei is going to make DST a laggy experience? It might be at first as they're figuring out all the server-end stuff, but the end product? Come now. If you're engaged with a monster, you probably have armor on, which means you're not getting 1 shot or 2 shot. If it starts getting laggy, why can't you run away? Better yet, why aren't your friends, who aren't lagging, helping you?

 

One day the moleworm leaves the bells alone, the next day he rings 'em. It was COMPLETELY random for me, though I would enjoy more ninja tweaks. 

 

One time Charlie did that to me and killed me  . Her attacked lagged or something during the night, and got a clean swipe on me in the morning. While bugs are impossible to catch before they happen, its one thing to die in a SP mode permanently. Its another thing to let down three other teammates.

 

Not every computer and internet connection has 100% stability. There could be nothing wrong with what Klei made, doesn't mean lag can't still exist. And if everyone is running away from something or if someone needs to use a item, but then lag hits, I don't posses the ability to tell all the monsters to not attack that one person.

[Doctor H. Derp]

One day the moleworm leaves the bells alone, the next day he rings 'em. It was COMPLETELY random for me, though I would enjoy more ninja tweaks. 

 

One time Charlie did that to me and killed me  . Her attacked lagged or something during the night, and got a clean swipe on me in the morning. While bugs are impossible to catch before they happen, its one thing to die in a SP mode permanently. Its another thing to let down three other teammates.

 

Not every computer and internet connection has 100% stability. There could be nothing wrong with what Klei made, doesn't mean lag can't still exist. And if everyone is running away from something or if someone needs to use a item, but then lag hits, I don't posses the ability to tell all the monsters to not attack that one person.

 

The moleworm was not a random death. You knew how the old bell functions. You might not have known a moleworm could use the bell, but at the very least, you heard the moleworm ring the bell, and you most certainly saw the screen shake and the sound of the biiigfoot coming closer. If you stood there, like a lump, and allowed biiigfoot to ensure your victory at the international pancake convention and competition, that's on you. You had plenty of time to get away, but you decided not to.

 

Are you sure it wasn't that she just barely got her attack in before the break of day?

 

Y'know, I'm not entirely against players coming back as ghosts or something like that, as long as they're permanently dead for a death in which no safety net was up. I want the ability to lose still be in tact even if the chances of it are so remote as to be nigh impossible, the chance should still be there.

[Decelexevi]

 

 

Absolutely nothing I said to you broke the surface so forget about it. What other people want is COMPLETELY irrelevant to you. I'll make a note of that.

 

At NO point did you acknowledge that 2 people can play the same game differently and not affect each other's experience. What is wrong with you?

 

Were you a purist screaming "oh no, you can't turn berry bushes up... that's CHEATING..."  Because you can now, and it doesn't make your game suck.

 

Forget about it. You're being a one-way conduit of information, and you're dead wrong on half of it. I'm changing my vote.

 

You are being the zenith of obstinate by not ADMITTING that sliders for other people's enjoyment won't take anything at all away from you. You're being incredibly greedy and possessive about a developer's integrity when it's not even on the line. You still failed to defend why your game is in jeopardy, at all.

 

You think a condition for failure is 'winning'. That's not even remotely correct. You've gone and made your own definition for it.

 

Answer me this: How does creative mode in Minecraft ruin survival mode. How? Or better yet, how would a MOD eliminating death in Don't Starve affect your base game? Because that slider is basically a mod that you don't have to take the extra step of installing.

 

Your first response is clear as day "and why would they be correct?" About what? Using already in-game sliders? Are you being that prescriptive towards other people's enjoyment that is hurts you when they have fun that breaks your rules of integrity? That's not right, or a tenable position to defend.

[lone wolf]

Absolutely nothing I said to you broke the surface so forget about it. What other people want is COMPLETELY irrelevant to you. I'll make a note of that.

 

At NO point did you acknowledge that 2 people can play the same game differently and not affect each other's experience. What is wrong with you?

 

Were you a purist screaming "oh no, you can't turn berry bushes up... that's CHEATING..."  Because you can now, and it doesn't make your game suck.

 

Forget about it. You're being a one-way conduit of information, and you're dead wrong on half of it. I'm changing my vote.

 

You are being the zenith of obstinate by not ADMITTING that sliders for other people's enjoyment won't take anything at all away from you. You're being incredibly greedy and possessive about a developer's integrity when it's not even on the line.

 

You think a condition for failure is 'winning'. That's not even remotely correct. You've gone and made your own definition for it.

 

Answer me this: How does creative mode in Minecraft ruin survival mode. How? Or better yet, how would a MOD eliminating death in Don't Starve affect your base game? Because that slider is basically a mod that you don't have to take the extra step of installing.

exactly! and btw taking away a game mechanc doesn't ruin the game as a whole i mean some people just dont use creative mode it doesn't affect them. you dont wannna play on a private server with no perm death? then dont play on it. simple as that

[Decelexevi]

exactly! and btw taking away a game mechanc doesn't ruin the game as a whole i mean some people just dont use creative mode it doesn't affect them. you dont wannna play on a private server with no perm death? then dont play on it. simple as that

 

Apparently that's a bridge too far for people who have no idea what they're talking about.

[Doctor H. Derp]

Absolutely nothing I said to you broke the surface so forget about it. What other people want is COMPLETELY irrelevant to you. I'll make a note of that.

 

Lies and slander, sir.

I've brought forward ideas for compromise such as the inclusion of a sacrificial dagger that would allow resurrection without a safety net at the permanent cost of max health.

I've also said I'm open to the ideas of coming back as a ghost or some other similar mechanic so that it's not that the player must now sit out for having died.

I'm open to ideas for compromise, if I didn't care what other people wanted, I'd not consider compromise at all, now would I?

 

At NO point did you acknowledge that 2 people can play the same game differently and not affect each other's experience. What is wrong with you?

 

It's a core mechanic to the game. It's equivalent to asking for a slider to turn off the hunger meter.

 

Were you a purist screaming "oh no, you can't turn berry bushes up... that's CHEATING..."  Because you can now, and it doesn't make your game suck.

 

No. I'm not against sliders. I'm against sliders that turn off core mechanics of the game. At a certain point you're not playing Don't Starve anymore.

 

Forget about it. You're being a one-way conduit of information, and you're dead wrong on half of it. I'm changing my vote.

 

You're entitled to your opinion. You're entitled to change your opinion. Who cares? Don't let me stand in the way of voting which ever way your heart fancies.

 

You are being the zenith of obstinate by not ADMITTING that sliders for other people's enjoyment won't take anything at all away from you. You're being incredibly greedy and possessive about a developer's integrity when it's not even on the line. You still failed to defend why your game is in jeopardy, at all.

 

Who said it was "my" game? And you want to complain about me putting words in your mouth?

I haven't waged a single attack against sliders. I have never said sliders need to be removed wholesale. That's never been my argument.

We're talking about the inclusion of a very specific hypothetical slider. I can be against that without be against sliders in general, and if I can't, I'd absolutely love for you to explain why.

 

You think a condition for failure is 'winning'. That's not even remotely correct. You've gone and made your own definition for it.

 

Semantics. Petty, petty semantics.

You want to call it a "failure state"? Fine. I'm not going to criticize it, and I haven't btw. How is that so different from saying "the game wins"?

 

Answer me this: How does creative mode in Minecraft ruin survival mode. How?

 

How is it comparable? Minecraft was designed for both modes in mind from the get go, or if not, very early in development anyway. There was never such a consideration to remove permadeath or make it optional save for mods. Quite the contrary in fact, permadeath was touted as a feature. A selling point. It was used to justify the inclusion of permadeath in caves.

 

It never was the case that Minecraft went through all development as a pure survival game until people wanted a creative mode. How can I reference anything to justify that opinion even if I were inclined? Or was it your intent to ask a loaded question? Hard to tell through all the venom.

 

Or better yet, how would a MOD eliminating death in Don't Starve affect your base game?

 

They already exist. If people are going to go to that length to cheat, well then so be it.

 

Because that slider is basically a mod that you don't have to take the extra step of installing.

 

So you mean to tell me that since Klei wont make it a base feature to toggle off all the characters' clothing and I have to install a mod to see Wilson survive out in the buff, therefore Klei should just cut out the middleman and just make it so? Just have a slider out in the options for various levels of nudity? Put it on Lots and my character puts on 3 jackets but on Less maybe they're all just in bikinis and trunks?

 

Well, I'll tell you what, if the people who so badly want to escape the consequences of permadeath are content with installing a mod to do it, I officially back down.

 

I have nothing whatsoever against with people modding their game to their heart's content.

Have entire private servers in which it rains ice cream and the sea is chocolate.

[Decelexevi]

Your game, as in the world you generate for yourself. You know, that one where you can set all the setting to your hearts delight. That game that is entirely unaffected by the decisions of people playing their games to their liking.

 

Not everyone is like you.

 

There's no competitive ladders, there's no ranking up. There's no holding your achievements over someone else's head. It is an entirely self-contained personal game that each player decides for themselves which way they want to tackle it.

 

You want them to build mods for something they want because to you, it cheapens the game, rather than a simple ignore-able function.

 

Why?

 

And yeah, it's called a failure condition. That's what the programmers call those things. Let's eliminate the semantic meaning of everything so I can wear shoes on my head. Let's introduce a complete abstraction of what is considered a victory condition.

 

You could compromise a whole lot easier if you just said "yeah, have your stupid button. I'm not gonna use it or acknowledge it's existence because I hate it".

 

That's a compromise.

[Kimah]

Your game, as in the world you generate for yourself. You know, that one where you can set all the setting to your hearts delight. That game that is entirely unaffected by the decisions of people playing their games to their liking.

 

Not everyone is like you.

 

There's no competitive ladders, there's no ranking up. There's no holding your achievements over someone else's head. It is an entirely self-contained personal game that each player decides for themselves which way they want to tackle it.

 

You want them to build mods for something they want because to you, it cheapens the game, rather than a simple ignore-able function.

 

Why?

 

And yeah, it's called a failure condition. That's what the programmers call those things. Let's eliminate the semantic meaning of everything so I can wear shoes on my head. Let's introduce a complete abstraction of what is considered a victory condition.

 

You could compromise a whole lot easier if you just said "yeah, have your stupid button. I'm not gonna use it or acknowledge it's existence because I hate it".

 

That's a compromise.

this guy have my respect.

[Doctor H. Derp]

I seem to have missed a bit:

 

Your first response is clear as day "and why would they be correct?" About what? Using already in-game sliders? Are you being that prescriptive towards other people's enjoyment that is hurts you when they have fun that breaks your rules of integrity? That's not right, or a tenable position to defend.

 

"My rules of integrity," sir...

You mean the current rules of the game. You forget there is currently no slider to toggle off permadeath, you're the one playing "devil's advocate." *wink wink nudge nudge*

It is your side that's coming into this argument saying, "Hey! We should be able to toggle off permadeath!" not me going, "Hey! We should remove that slider for permadeath!"

It is your responsibility to provide the base reasoning for why the game should be changed, not mine.

 

You say it's because people will enjoy the game more. You know what? I don't doubt it. Also? I don't doubt that some people would "enjoy the game more" if Don't Starve was converted into a first person shooter. Should that be done? I don't think so. Oh but what if I could still play the base survival game and we merely had an option to play the first person shooting version of the game? Because first person shooting has nothing to do with Don't Starve. That's why. A game without permadeath isn't Don't Starve anymore.

It sounds to me that you don't like what Don't Starve represents or the Don't Starve experience, because permadeath is kind of a big deal about it. It was the main way you learned.

 

If that vision is so secondary to the desires of a bunch of people who straight up baselessly claim that they can't enjoy DST with permadeath in it, something they haven't even tried yet mind you, well then so be it.

[_Q_]

If there is a way of reviving your friend(s), then its already no perma death.

I see it like that you will be able to revive your dead friends in some fairly easy way, cause perma death would be not interesting at all in MP, and there is no need for it anyway.

Going as far as banning other player from that server after death is silly at best, there is no information about features of DST so its quite to early to even say if perma death mechanic would be needed there.

[Decelexevi]

I seem to have missed a bit:

 

 

"My rules of integrity," sir...

You mean the current rules of the game. You forget there is currently no slider to toggle off permadeath, you're the one playing "devil's advocate." *wink wink nudge nudge*

It is your side that's coming into this argument saying, "Hey! We should be able to toggle off permadeath!" not me going, "Hey! We should remove that slider for permadeath!"

It is your responsibility to provide the base reasoning for why the game should be changed, not mine.

 

You say it's because people will enjoy the game more. You know what? I don't doubt it. Also? I don't doubt that some people would "enjoy the game more" if Don't Starve was converted into a first person shooter. Should that be done? I don't think so. Oh but what if I could still play the base survival game and we merely had an option to play the first person shooting version of the game? Because first person shooting has nothing to do with Don't Starve. That's why. A game without permadeath isn't Don't Starve anymore.

It sounds to me that you don't like what Don't Starve represents or the Don't Starve experience, because permadeath is kind of a big deal about it. It was the main way you learned.

 

If that vision is so secondary to the desires of a bunch of people who straight up baselessly claim that they can't enjoy DST with permadeath in it, something they haven't even tried yet mind you, well then so be it.

 

What rules of the game? The ones you can tweak and change via a slider system? Oh, those rules. You're holding other people to your standards of integrity. 

 

Not playing devil's advocate anymore. I changed sides. You've convinced me to.

[lone wolf]

you said you're against sliders that change core mechanics yet you also said to just change the current sliders to make it perm day which night is also a core mechanic other games you just run around in the night here you just die in total darkness you also appear to be against things that dont affect you whatsoever you're being against what you say and against stuff that wont affect you but you don't want others to have it. why you don't want others to have something you don't care about (as in you wont bother with it) is confusing i mean

you don't want it but you don't want others to have it? how does that make sense?

[Ridley]

The moleworm was not a random death. You knew how the old bell functions. You might not have known a moleworm could use the bell, but at the very least, you heard the moleworm ring the bell, and you most certainly saw the screen shake and the sound of the biiigfoot coming closer. If you stood there, like a lump, and allowed biiigfoot to ensure your victory at the international pancake convention and competition, that's on you. You had plenty of time to get away, but you decided not to.

 

It wasn't the bigfoot part that was deadly, it was the fact it killed my base. My point is totally random things can happen to mess you over.

[acgrim]

I've got to agree with everyone about the slider not having any effect on you, man. I won't be using it myself, but just let them have their slider. Some people just don't play games the same way you do. Also, permadeath may be a large feature in the game, but it's hardly a core aspect. If you turn off permadeath, you could simply not make the respawn point static as well as having a decay timer on dropped items in order to have a consequence for dying.

 

Now, I'm going to actually lay out an idea for this instead of just adding to this seemingly endless argument. I believe that a ghost mechanic would work, especially with a random spawn point for the ghost. I think it woud even be fun to die on occasion if you include the dead player in their own resurrection. Say that when you die you become a "ghost," but all it really does is make you a nightmare creature yourself. All of those mobs are still hostile towards you, so the threat of vanishing from the session is still there. If you die again, you're done for. No resurrection by any means. In this state, you can't be seen by any players unless said player's sanity is low enough. To add a little more danger to the dead player's state, a "Death" style mob could be added to hunt the dead player. That would be the fun part. If your friends have low enough sanity, they too could see this thing hunting you and attempt to help you kill it. It would have to be very difficult, but I think it would be a good way to be forgiving while still punishing a player for not having any source of resurrection prepared.

[RalphKastro]

It wasn't the bigfoot part that was deadly, it was the fact it killed my base. My point is totally random things can happen to mess you over.

not random, unpredicted.(also not unpredictable)

[Ridley]

not random, unpredicted.(also not unpredictable)

 

This was the right after the ninja change was added. It was very random and unpredictable.

[Decelexevi]

This was the right after the ninja change was added. It was very random and unpredictable.

 

Like the first time a pig ate a mandrake I gave him (was playing Wigfrid). Whoops.

[Doctor H. Derp]

Your game, as in the world you generate for yourself. You know, that one where you can set all the setting to your hearts delight. That game that is entirely unaffected by the decisions of people playing their games to their liking.

 

Well then my mistake.

 

Not everyone is like you.

 

Who said otherwise? You can keep your personal vendetta to yourself.

 

There's no competitive ladders, there's no ranking up. There's no holding your achievements over someone else's head. It is an entirely self-contained personal game that each player decides for themselves which way they want to tackle it.

 

And I grant you all of it, however, there are some commonalities between games. No matter how you play Don't Starve there's a hunger bar, there's a health bar, there's a sanity bar. You have a map, there's the element of time passing. Should you find yourself in pure darkness Charlie will find you, there's crafting, and then there's permadeath. Obviously not an exhaustive list, but I'm sure you get the picture.

There's a core.

There's a lowest common denominator.

Unless you mod the game, these aspects will always be present, at least as it currently stands.

 

You want them to build mods for something they want because to you, it cheapens the game, rather than a simple ignore-able function.

 

Why?

 

Let's clear up a little misconception: this isn't about me so much caring how you precisely play the game. How could I if I was in favor of mods? How could if I was in favor of any sliders to customize the worlds at all? It's about the integrity of core aspects of the game.

There's certain aspects of the game that, I at least believe, are the "core," that I don't think should be changed.

 

Obviously you don't have to agree, and evidently you don't, which is 100% just fine. You're always welcome to your own opinions.

 

But my opinion is that they shouldn't be changed, otherwise it ceases to be Don't Starve. That's what I was getting at with a genre change to a first person shooter, that's what I was getting at when I mention removal of the hunger bar. Imagine, for a moment, playing a game of "Don't Starve" in which there was no incentive to eat. Is that really "Don't Starve" at that point? Imagine if Klei decided tomorrow that they want to take Don't Starve down the path of becoming a first person shooter: is it still "Don't Starve" to you anymore?

 

There's been a fundamental change. The core, the base, the foundation, has been altered.

 

And yeah, it's called a failure condition. That's what the programmers call those things. Let's eliminate the semantic meaning of everything so I can wear shoes on my head. Let's introduce a complete abstraction of what is considered a victory condition.

 

Unfortunately I'm not a programmer and I've never heard it called it that before. However, it is the height of pettiness to call what I was saying a "complete abstraction," because if it were, sir, then how did you manage to divine what my meaning was?

 

This is what we call "playing semantics."

So what I didn't use the particular jargon you wish I did?

 

I'm an artist. I'm not going to complain to someone critiquing an art piece of mine that they called a "Dutch Angle" a "slant," because you know what? Even though I might be right on the terminology, that person very well might be right in his criticism despite it.

 

You could compromise a whole lot easier if you just said "yeah, have your stupid button. I'm not gonna use it or acknowledge it's existence because I hate it".

 

That's a compromise.

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/compromise

 

"No surrender, no prisoners, no quarter" is hardly a "compromise."

 

What rules of the game? The ones you can tweak and change via a slider system? Oh, those rules. You're holding other people to your standards of integrity. 

 

This boils down to a difference in values:

 

Apparently you believe anything, even character nudity -- considering you didn't contest it in the slightest -- should be able to be tweaked, edited, and changed up all in the name of being as inclusive as we possibly can.

 

I, on the other hand, don't think inclusion is the be all end all, especially not for the sheer sake of it. That doesn't mean we avoid it for the sake of avoiding it either, but there's some aspects of the game that people are either going to just deal with or mod if it's really that unbearable. I mean how many discussions have we had about wanting the Krampus Sack drop rate increased? How many people would that make happy? Yet Klei has been staunch about keeping it at 1%, however they were willing to compromise with a Krampus Slider!

 

There is middle ground to be had here.

 

Not playing devil's advocate anymore. I changed sides. You've convinced me to.

 

You keep on acting as if I care what your personal vote is. You're entitled to your opinion, sir.

 

I mean what are you expecting me to say? "Oh noez! Decelexevi changed his opinion because he doesn't like me! Oh whatever shall I do now that someone over the internet hates my guts?"?

 

If there's anything I've taken away from that fact, is that whatever reasons you had to believe that permadeath was a good idea or shouldn't be changed within the sliders must've been so absolutely horrid compared to mine, otherwise you wouldn't abandon them wholesale just by "defeating me." You flatter me.

 

 

The honest to god truth of the matter is that it's perfectly fine that someone has a different set of values on this matter. I'll sleep soundly tonight just the same. If Klei announces tomorrow that the slider is coming regardless of my wishes, I'm not going to say, "Oh! How dare you, Klei! I'm never going to play DS again!" or anything like that. Just like DST, just like how I'm not exactly happy at the news, I'm likely going to give it a try because guess what?

 

This is all speculation. Speculation, while fun, doesn't mean much once the game actually arrives, and I'm far from infallible.

 

This thread is an opinion thread. I've given my opinion. You contested my opinion. So what? At the end of the day, it's just opinion.

[Ridley]

Like the first time a pig ate a mandrake I gave him (was playing Wigfrid). Whoops.

 

Except that has never been new. This ninja change back when I was the first to stumble on it, is not the same as a mechanic as old as the game.