Constipated beefalos?

[the truthseeker]

Why not just use that meat to make honey ham...or make dragonpies which are basically guaranteed sustenance for summer (and a large part of winter as well).

The point is the Beefalo manure rate was "ain't broke," but they "fixed it." 

[Cynical Cynicist]

The point is the Beefalo manure rate was "ain't broke," but they "fixed it." 

 

I didn't really notice a change. In fact I'm having trouble giving use to my chest full of manure...

 

Dat's wat u get 4 aboosing poopoo

[the truthseeker]

I didn't really notice a change. In fact I'm having trouble giving use to my chest full of manure...

 

Dat's wat u get 4 aboosing poopoo

If there are those drinking poo as libations...or did you mean abusing?

[Cynical Cynicist]

If there are those drinking poo as libations...or did you mean abusing?

 

It's left to your own interpretation.

[TeoSS69]

Farms are useful in caves and ruins.

[Cynical Cynicist]

This reminds me of Dwarf Fortress, because in most situations you absolutely need underground farms to survive on glaciers

[TeoSS69]

This reminds me of Dwarf Fortress, because in most situations you absolutely need underground farms to survive on glaciers

Dem ruins are brutal with dragon fruits. Not enough spiders to turn into bacon. At least you get lots of manure for the farms...from monkeys...in your face. ._:

[ARamblingSpider]

Dem ruins are brutal with dragon fruits. Not enough spiders to turn into bacon. At least you get lots of manure for the farms...from monkeys...in your face. ._:

sound tasty brah.

[Craig_Perry]

hmm all this discussion has brought up quite the interesting balance point;

 

before;

beefalo - fast production for free

pigs - fast but paid production

splumonkeys - fast, free but risky production

 

now;

beefalo - slow production but free

pigs - fast but paid production

splumonkeys - fast, free but risky production

 

as you can see the one from before made beefalo vastly superior now it is balanced

[Cynical Cynicist]

hmm all this discussion has brought up quite the interesting balance point;

 

before;

beefalo - fast production for free

pigs - fast but paid production

splumonkeys - fast, free but risky production

 

now;

beefalo - slow production but free

pigs - fast but paid production

splumonkeys - fast, free but risky production

 

as you can see the one from before made beefalo vastly superior now it is balanced

 

I wish you could create laxatives in this game...then put them in a fruit medley and consume it. Then go ballistic with fecal matter.

 

Or feed it to animals for viscous results.

[ARamblingSpider]

I wish you could create laxatives in this game...then put them in a fruit medley and consume it. Then go ballistic with fecal matter.

 

Or feed it to animals for viscous results.

what.

[hotflungwok]

I wish you could create laxatives in this game...then put them in a fruit medley and consume it. Then go ballistic with fecal matter.

Well, Wilson already makes his own beard hair...

[learnergamer]

hmm all this discussion has brought up quite the interesting balance point;

 

before;

beefalo - fast production for free

pigs - fast but paid production

splumonkeys - fast, free but risky production

 

now;

beefalo - slow production but free

pigs - fast but paid production

splumonkeys - fast, free but risky production

 

as you can see the one from before made beefalo vastly superior now it is balanced

 

I'm sure that thoughts such as these entered the minds of the developers when they made the change to beefalo manure in the update. Indeed, it's precisely why I mentioned earlier in this thread that (a) those believing that farms were previously OP (because beefalo manure was too easily available) may well have had a point and (b) that I understood why the developers made this particular change in the update (because it was occasionally possible to discover a herd of beefalo practically swimming in manure).

 

However, your argument that the change has improved balanced fails because, whilst you have considered directionality (ie. that certain factors offset) you have failed to consider magnitude. (As an aside, I'm also not convinced that you've properly considered perhaps the most relevant factor in the analysis – time - given that this is a survival game and there is a need to prepare for that first winter. The result is that opportunity cost may well not be linear in time)

 

The magnitude of the factors involved is best illustrated by referring back to my earlier post (or others in this thread) in which I pointed out that, thanks to this change, visiting beefalo to harvest manure is clearly now inferior to harvesting manure from pigs. This is evident as soon as the player manages to find a pig village, harvests berries (if they have not done so already) and feeds them to the pigs to obtain manure. As others have pointed out, it is easily possible to obtain a double digit haul of manure from pursuing this strategy.

 

By way of contrast, a number of posts in this thread (and the bug thread in this forum) have shown that gamers are now only able to obtain 3, perhaps 4 pieces of manure per day from even a large herd of beefalo. Admittedly, this does not require parting with an equivalent amount of berries but, given the usefulness of manure (in fertilizing gardens, berries and grass tufts, all of which can be relocated close to camp to save future time harvesting those crops), this is a price the gamer should be very willing to pay provided they have sufficient food (such as carrots) to avoid starvation, because the berry bushes will produce more berries in future.

 

In other words, despite having to give up berries to obtain manure, obtaining fertilizer from pigs is by far the better strategy to pursue post the update. This is because so little manure is now obtainable from beefalo over the same interval of game time. This consideration of magnitude makes it very clear that all the developers have in fact done with this change IMHO is swapped one imbalance (the superiority of beefalo manure and farms) for another (obtaining said manure from pigs instead).

 

As I've mentioned previously, the solution is to simply increase the amount of manure produced by beefalo in the presence of the gamer's character. Obtaining three pieces of manure for a day's harvesting is a poor haul when compared to the alternative of harvesting well into double digit collections of manure from pigs (by sacrificing berries). The key question is how much more manure should beefalo produce, given the points you made in your post. Balance will only be achieved when the gamer is indifferent between obtaining manure from the various sources of it...and IMHO the game's not gotten that balance right at the minute.

[Craig_Perry]

 

I'm sure that thoughts such as these entered the minds of the developers when they made the change to beefalo manure in the update. Indeed, it's precisely why I mentioned earlier in this thread that (a) those believing that farms were previously OP (because beefalo manure was too easily available) may well have had a point and (b) that I understood why the developers made this particular change in the update (because it was occasionally possible to discover a herd of beefalo practically swimming in manure).

 

However, your argument that the change has improved balanced fails because, whilst you have considered directionality (ie. that certain factors offset) you have failed to consider magnitude. (As an aside, I'm also not convinced that you've properly considered perhaps the most relevant factor in the analysis – time - given that this is a survival game and there is a need to prepare for that first winter. The result is that opportunity cost may well not be linear in time)

 

The magnitude of the factors involved is best illustrated by referring back to my earlier post (or others in this thread) in which I pointed out that, thanks to this change, visiting beefalo to harvest manure is clearly now inferior to harvesting manure from pigs. This is evident as soon as the player manages to find a pig village, harvests berries (if they have not done so already) and feeds them to the pigs to obtain manure. As others have pointed out, it is easily possible to obtain a double digit haul of manure from pursuing this strategy.

 

By way of contrast, a number of posts in this thread (and the bug thread in this forum) have shown that gamers are now only able to obtain 3, perhaps 4 pieces of manure per day from even a large herd of beefalo. Admittedly, this does not require parting with an equivalent amount of berries but, given the usefulness of manure (in fertilizing gardens, berries and grass tufts, all of which can be relocated close to camp to save future time harvesting those crops), this is a price the gamer should be very willing to pay provided they have sufficient food (such as carrots) to avoid starvation, because the berry bushes will produce more berries in future.

 

In other words, despite having to give up berries to obtain manure, obtaining fertilizer from pigs is by far the better strategy to pursue post the update. This is because so little manure is now obtainable from beefalo over the same interval of game time. This consideration of magnitude makes it very clear that all the developers have in fact done with this change IMHO is swapped one imbalance (the superiority of beefalo manure and farms) for another (obtaining said manure from pigs instead).

 

As I've mentioned previously, the solution is to simply increase the amount of manure produced by beefalo in the presence of the gamer's character. Obtaining three pieces of manure for a day's harvesting is a poor haul when compared to the alternative of harvesting well into double digit collections of manure from pigs (by sacrificing berries). The key question is how much more manure should beefalo produce, given the points you made in your post. Balance will only be achieved when the gamer is indifferent between obtaining manure from the various sources of it...and IMHO the game's not gotten that balance right at the minute.

 

well mine was only a quick rundown of the things, you have put much more thought into it than I did

[ybnrmalatall]

I have no use for Werepig poop. I'd rather have myself some high quality manure from a healthy Pig. First winter at the moment on my newest world, and the 30 or something berries I have in my fridge are needed for them tasty meatballs. I just thought I'll gather some manure for a few days while waiting for winter to end.

 

Sooo, I need to be near them now in order for them to poop? Now this is... rather funny actually. *alt+tabs in the game to test it*

uhmm wow

this saddens meeee

[Cynical Cynicist]

uhmm wow

this saddens meeee

 

Ikr even the meatballs are crying.

[hotflungwok]

Ikr even the meatballs are crying.

That's gravy.

[HoneyHam]

Meatballs are generally regarded as a waste of meat by veteran players...

Which is why I use Honey Ham.

[the truthseeker]

Which is why I use Honey Ham.

Well, sometimes I don't need that much and top it off and/or have too much monster meat. That's when they come in handy, especially if playing WX-78 in his 100 health version. 

 

Once upgraded though, Honey ham and ham and eggs though work great. 

[HoneyHam]

Well, sometimes I don't need that much and top it off and/or have too much monster meat. That's when they come in handy, especially if playing WX-78 in his 100 health version. 

 

Once upgraded though, Honey ham and ham and eggs though work great. 

COOONGRAAATULATIOOOONS!!

ON 1000TH POST!!!

[the truthseeker]

Crud? I'm over 1000 posts?! Well dang!

[xSadoro]

Start hunting Koalefants son, meatballs won't do you any good.

 

So mean.

[Anelyn]

They changed this - I believe - because it was a no brainer to just pick all manure as you pass by beefalos. There was very little time used to pick the things up (unlike berries, grass, twigs etc).

 

I don't have a problem with how it works now, I don't mind spending a day moving between my beefalo herds to get a stack + of manure. 

 

Also I think this change affects directly the start of the game more than late game, because at start you are hard pressed by time to get supplies (construction materials, food, etc) and you can't sit around a beefalo herd for one day to make 1 improved farm. But as time passes and you're pretty much set with a solid base, there's nothing stopping me from spending all winter or summer next to my beloved beefalos to collect their manure, even if I have no use for it (plenty of various fuel types and other fertilizers).

 

There are other similar activities that are time consuming (and some of them with little return compared to time spent doing them) like fishing for example. When you start, making a fishing rod is quite expensive, not to mention how many fishes you can catch during the day time given the frogs presence, possibility of dogs coming, and how fishing pools work (that the time required to catch a fish increments with each new attempt in same pool).

[Grumpy]

Low manure supplies mostly affects the ability to build farms prior to the first Winter in time to get some actual crops to harvest.  As Anelyn said farms are still viable late game, but who uses farms in late game?  The new Beefalo manure rate makes farming almost impractical for the first year which essentially makes it completely unnecessary.

[the truthseeker]

I do agree lowering the rate is fine, just feel it was lowered too much as noted for that first farm building for the first winter. it just feels like the new and early game players are being punished for the late game and veteran players.