Add Upgradeable Homes. Fences. Increase Risk/Reward at night

[mehtarlam]

As Soon as I started playing I established a "base of operation" that I would try to be back at by nightfall. I think most people play similarly (perhaps an interesting point for a sociologist). I like coming "home" at night, even though it's just a patch of farms, berry bushes and grasses--that I try, and sometimes fail, to not burn down. I recommend having a base house that can be built. Making it 3D would be difficult given the layout of the game, so I would say simply show an animation of the door opening and closing and then show our character climbing into bed through an outside window. This would be something that would be obtainable "mid-game" in the tech tree after the player has accumulated a stash of resources.

I recommend making the houses upgradeable where items grown at the farm or obtained from the environment allow the house to be slowly externally improved--perhaps it starts as a shack and then slowly becomes a mansion.

I would also recommend fences for farms. The rabbits and various wildlife would eat your vegetables and berries if you don't have them properly fenced in otherwise. And perhaps a scarecrow that can be made to fend of the crows that would eat your vegetables.

Last, have items that can only be obtained at night (in addition to fireflies). These items could be vanity items for a player's base or powerful items that improve attack/defense power. In exchange the areas that have these items would be more dangerous and require greater player skill to survive.

[Royal]

I feel positive something like this has been brought up before. Toaster Fu will tell you but I love the idea. I don't need the house but it would be a comfort to have, of course I think there should be things that need to be constantly stocked in the house.

Perhaps allowing the player to dump in lots of silk improves the bed quality (buffs or some such). You have to dump in firewood or charcoal to keep a fire burning so that your home doesn't go dark at night. Dropping in foods allows the player to have a snack before bed to ensure that they wake up without gaining a whole mess of hunger.

A workbench attached to the house allows items to be turned in to upgrade the home or add things. Maybe even set a farm area where you can place farm plots so that they are perfectly lined up and seem an extension of the home?

Regardless of what is added this would seem to be something HUGE to add in, for now I'd be happy climbing into a pig house now and then.

[Bogpad]

there actually were tons of similar suggestions, yes.

main problem is:

The game is about survival, with the night time beeing the biggest threat.

Building a house as a permanent safeplace, with an option to skip through the night that is not one-use like the straw roll, would take this biggest threat out of the game, and this would make absolutely no sense.

[Royal]

Having a home is not having a secure home, Having to fill it with with items to make it viable and having it take damage during things like hound invasions might make it a little less of a permanent staple and a little more of a potential stowaway spot.

In addition to that if you have a place of refuse what's to say that pigs (maybe werepigs) don't want it or wouldn't attack it in the night. A house wouldn't be something to skip a night just a perceived safety during it. Thinking your safe and being safe are different there's plenty of ways to have it so that a home is a place where you spend your nights but still has risks.

[Toaster Fu]

Heh, houses have been suggested a LOT. It seems to be split about 50/50, some want it, some don't.

[Dijad]

Well, to balance this "safety", the house could take damage during the night from whatever it is thats out there. One would be forced to forage for materials to keep the house in repair. As it stands, keeping a fire going is simple and keeps whatever it is at bay. Making a tradeoff that consumes both time and resources (more than a fire, which consumes relatively little) would add another activity to the game, which means more fun. If one wishes to forgo such work, they may, but it would add another choice of playstyle in a game thats all about choice of playstyle.

[Cryx]

I always seem to have an excess amount of stone, and I'd love to see fences added to deter nightly thieves or assailants. I picture the stone fence that wears down with attacks in the tower defense Revenge of the Titans.

[mehtarlam]

there actually were tons of similar suggestions, yes.

main problem is:

The game is about survival, with the night time beeing the biggest threat.

Building a house as a permanent safeplace, with an option to skip through the night that is not one-use like the straw roll, would take this biggest threat out of the game, and this would make absolutely no sense.

If the idea was/is to make the night time "the biggest threat" then Willow needs to be removed from the game as she is immune to the biggest threat. Also, night only presents a challenge to a new player for the first two days of in game time. After that a player (should have) has more than enough wood and grass to make all the fires they will need. I have yet to die at night. I would be surprised if anyone has died more than once at night do to the threat of darkness alone.

[Bogpad]

only because you can prepare for it, does not mean that it is not the biggest threat.

The night will always come to you, no matter where you are or what you do, it will get night. There is no way for you to prevent that from happening, you can huddle in your light circle, or use a one-time item to get through one night, but that only leaves you for the next one, and no matter how many weapons and armor you have, when you are exposed to the night, it will kill you, you can not fight it, you can not hurt it, you can't kite it. Yes, the night is the biggest threat in this game.

willow is indeed an "unballancing" factor to that, yes, but what you should not forget is that it is already planned to have burn damage to your camp structures, so while willow is able to avoid beeing killed by the darkness, she is always at the risk to loose everything she has, all her food, all here struktures, all items stored in chests, she's at risk to burn all materials around here except for stones, and unlike trees, every other material that gets burned is gone for good, no regrowing. So yes, while she can avoid darkness, she also can loose everything else that she needs to survive.

The different characters are ment to enable different styles of the game, so willow is the "no kills from darkness but higher risk from everything else" mode, she's an exception, not more, not less.

[sovalopivia]

I like the idea of coming back home to find out werepigs have trashed everything, and my torch is almost out...PLAN B PLAN B

[Enjou]

For houses to work I think you'd have to balance it out in a few ways:

1. They'd have to be the single most expensive structure, requiring a large variety of materials.

2. You can only have one at any given time.

3. The game is balanced in such a way that you have to venture out from your established base of operations on a semi-regular basis. Perhaps after using it for so many nights the house needs maintenance or something, and maintenance would require materials that are never in the same biome.

[dra6o0n]

Start with a most basic form of house that's not necessarily a house.

A Lean-to.

It's basically branches/leaves/sticks and is a lower form of a 'tent'.

It's made out of tree materials, and not really reliant on silk at all, but relies mostly from twigs and branches (if we can substitute that with flowers).

8 twigs + 12 flowers?

If you put the straw roll (the thing you use to skip the night) under it, you increase it's use to 3 times.

Resting under a lean-to recovers a small amount of health, but does not negate the hunger penalty.

Like the straw roll thing, it needs to be near a well lit area to be used... So you put it near a campfire.

I REALLY doubt willow can sleep under a lean-to if it gets set on fire by being near it...

And we can add 'stages' onto the lean-to into two modes:

NotSet and Set

When you build it, it will be set the first time. After 3 use the lean-to will need to be repaired, which can be used easily by using flowers on it.

Actually why use flowers, I wonder what other materials to use instead...

The Buffallo furs?

8 twigs + 1 fur = temporary lean-to with 1 use (3 if you drop a straw roll on it). drop a fur to repair it fully.

Edited November 20, 2012 by dra6o0n

[Poriand]

I think a house is a good idea. you could also have recipes for stuff to go inside your house

[Dijad]

Shelter from the elements is essential to survival in the wild, why not here? Sure, one can stay out all night when the weather it fine, but when it isnt, we sometimes fragile human beings require shelter.

[Royal]

Shelter from the elements is essential to survival in the wild, why not here? Sure, one can stay out all night when the weather it fine, but when it isnt, we sometimes fragile human beings require shelter.

Given this it should clearly be an endgame addition. Not something to upgrade constantly but a final preparation to show that you own your position now.

[NeedPants]

Mayb add in a random event? This is harder to program i guess but it would be fun if you click enter house and that there is a CHANCE of u not crawling in ur bed to go to sleep. It could be something like: *speech* "What was that?!!" And then werepigs attack the house and u have to defend it. Something like that. During the day entering the house has 100% chance of nothing happening, during the night that chance is lower (ofc). During the full moon u could make it have a 90% chance of a werepig attack perhaps? So a house is a "quicker" way to get thru the night (i assume at least half the nights u can skip thru sleeping) where in the other occasions u have to defend urself for the normal nights duration. Danger should tho, even if undefeated, disappear at dawn. Overall u spend less time during the night, but the few nights u do spend, arent even close to boring.

My 2 cents

[dra6o0n]

Well not a instant 'house' if that's what you guys means, but it would be great to have different phases to utilize habitats.

Like if you can dig a cave or other forms of shelter.

As for the 'interior' levels, I think it's not hard to create a mini world that's designed for interiors.

Otherwise a house 'building' system that builds a house that is destructible by whatever is out there during the night.

From what I've gathered, don't starve is less resource hog than minecraft and minecraft included nether as a separate 'world' instance.

For utilization of instances, it's much easier in a single player game, since you don't have players in multiplayer requiring processing and rendering in real time in multiple instances.

[Cerberis]

On the one hand I like the idea of having a house as it represents at the very least the safest shelter but houses are shelters from the elements. What I mean is all manner of wildlife critters have been known to find there ways into homes before historically speaking so ive little doubt that if they tried in Don't Starve they could.

On the other hand I don't want to see the game end up like Minecraft where you build a dirt house with holes in the walls for 'windows' and laugh at the creatures outside of them. Which is what I think everyone is afraid houses would be in Don't Starve. I however reconize that if you don't like useing houses then don't as theres nothing in Don't Starve that makes them manditory. Unlike Minecraft which you'd always need to have a fence at least to keep the monsters off of you for any length of time and then you may as well have a house. This is because in Minecraft torches are to prevent monsters from spawning an obvious game flaw is that the monsters have no fear of the light they just don't spawn in it (I could complain further but this is getting long enough). Don't Starve already has the intelligent system of creatures being afraid of the light rather then spawn based on its presence.

Im actually starting to view a house and a wall as the same thing because of my comment about the fence. If its destructable and repairable then the house or walls would serve the same functions. Besides has anyone considered how you would enter and exit the house? In terms of more then "through the door 'duh'" Would it be its own seperate world? or would its size and shape be determined by the player createing it and the space it consumes in the world? I think if there is a house it shoulden't be a substitute for the sleeping bag you can already make.

Rather it should be an evolution of your base camp. Hmm its just a thought and far from perfect and really im distracted by my thoughts on alternative ways to do the research system. None of which are promiceing because the two I was thinking of is 'random drops' which has obvious problems or alternatively have them time dependant. I don't envy the developers I think they choose the most reasonable option considering I can't come up with an alternative I can't shoot down myself.

[dra6o0n]

On the one hand I like the idea of having a house as it represents at the very least the safest shelter but houses are shelters from the elements. What I mean is all manner of wildlife critters have been known to find there ways into homes before historically speaking so ive little doubt that if they tried in Don't Starve they could.

On the other hand I don't want to see the game end up like Minecraft where you build a dirt house with holes in the walls for 'windows' and laugh at the creatures outside of them. Which is what I think everyone is afraid houses would be in Don't Starve. I however reconize that if you don't like useing houses then don't as theres nothing in Don't Starve that makes them manditory. Unlike Minecraft which you'd always need to have a fence at least to keep the monsters off of you for any length of time and then you may as well have a house. This is because in Minecraft torches are to prevent monsters from spawning an obvious game flaw is that the monsters have no fear of the light they just don't spawn in it (I could complain further but this is getting long enough). Don't Starve already has the intelligent system of creatures being afraid of the light rather then spawn based on its presence.

Im actually starting to view a house and a wall as the same thing because of my comment about the fence. If its destructable and repairable then the house or walls would serve the same functions. Besides has anyone considered how you would enter and exit the house? In terms of more then "through the door 'duh'" Would it be its own seperate world? or would its size and shape be determined by the player createing it and the space it consumes in the world? I think if there is a house it shoulden't be a substitute for the sleeping bag you can already make.

Rather it should be an evolution of your base camp. Hmm its just a thought and far from perfect and really im distracted by my thoughts on alternative ways to do the research system. None of which are promiceing because the two I was thinking of is 'random drops' which has obvious problems or alternatively have them time dependant. I don't envy the developers I think they choose the most reasonable option considering I can't come up with an alternative I can't shoot down myself.

The tent could have a use for a small 'interior' in the game world. It just adjusts the layers and function like a wall and is flammable.

Pigs nearby could be 'curious' and walk in, maybe eating up your food?

That is, once they grow a brain and is smart enough to travel to your camp and go through your chests.

For now, I make HUGE walls of trees surrounding my camp, no spiders and pigs can get in, and it got boring because of the lack of mid and end game content anyhow.

[Cerberis]

Indeed? well that does make sense I suppose walls do exsist in a way already it just never occured to me to bother building tree walls since the spiders are too scared of my inferno camp fire to pester me to much. So you favour the 'pocket world' senario where your tent is basically a tardis and has more space inside then outside. Well its a step in the right direction since for all my searching I coulden't find anyone on these forums to describe how the house would work from a development stand point. Its probably easyier to control the circumstances of having a pocket universe house anyways because then the developers can decide all the limitations of it.

Hmm it'd make implimenting something like caves or ruins potentially easyier as well if there game could allow for pocket world play and travel.

[dra6o0n]

Indeed? well that does make sense I suppose walls do exsist in a way already it just never occured to me to bother building tree walls since the spiders are too scared of my inferno camp fire to pester me to much. So you favour the 'pocket world' senario where your tent is basically a tardis and has more space inside then outside. Well its a step in the right direction since for all my searching I coulden't find anyone on these forums to describe how the house would work from a development stand point. Its probably easyier to control the circumstances of having a pocket universe house anyways because then the developers can decide all the limitations of it.

Hmm it'd make implimenting something like caves or ruins potentially easyier as well if there game could allow for pocket world play and travel.

Actually no it's not a large world inside a small space.

Make the tent a bit bigger with a small area in it. When you walk in the tent shows the inside and the outside goes black.

It's a transition from sprite layers.

So this means the tent has two layers, the interior that appears and the exterior that shows on the outside, but both takes place in the real time real world.

It's the exact size as the sprite, but has enough space to put a chest or something inside it.

It's quite simple, make a black 'layer' that overrides the world except the 'interior tent' layer when you enter it, and vanishes when you aren't inside.

Otherwise to keep it simple, just have the tent 'go invisible' when you enter the spaces in it, but put in a shadow so you know where the edges of the tents are.

On the outside:

When inside:

Edited November 21, 2012 by dra6o0n

[Cerberis]

Ah I get what you mean then so its not actually different from how I pictured the build your own house thing except you have the space pre-defined by the tent you place down. That'd probably be easyier for the spiders to reasonably attack you inside it since it would be a clearly defined game object. Its not like tents have locked doors either so they can just sort of waltz in. As an early game 'house' it'd serve the purpose a little but I don't know if I support the idea of the tent specifically as a useable home. Especially without being able to put a camp fire inside it somehow.

[dra6o0n]

Ah I get what you mean then so its not actually different from how I pictured the build your own house thing except you have the space pre-defined by the tent you place down. That'd probably be easyier for the spiders to reasonably attack you inside it since it would be a clearly defined game object. Its not like tents have locked doors either so they can just sort of waltz in. As an early game 'house' it'd serve the purpose a little but I don't know if I support the idea of the tent specifically as a useable home. Especially without being able to put a camp fire inside it somehow.

It is realistically known that campfires are often used in tents, when ventilation are made.

The natives and huts you will see a lot.

Actually to look at it from another perspective, using long branches/logs you can create a tent by sticking them into the ground and point them all towards one point and tying them.

The monsters attacking through walls is a big issue with the game mechanic when it comes to future contents not conflicting with that.

Maybe have a check for attacking through objects.

IF (object is between you and the target) {

object is a tree = permit attacks

object is a 'tent' = deny attacks or make tent take damage

object is a chest/campfire/etc = based on structure durabilities, have monsters attack those or if ai is better, to walk around them.

}

To even further expand the crafting...

Allow you to use logs to turn them into poles!

Poles can replace some of the requirements to make spears and tents and stuff.

3 logs for one pole or 6 logs for one board.

[Cerberis]

I am vaguely aware tents have been made that way however the tent you get in game is not so it'd require a rework of the art is all I was thinking. Generally although safer the details on the tent's durability would have to be negotiated. I can agree to it as a basic shelter from the elements but the thing everyone is concerned about is it being a shelter from monsters as well. Making it become a cheap 'Minecraft' solution to the monsters at night. Which generally as someone on this forum has suggested makes the most threatening time of the game trivial. So some people (more then just me) should negotiate on these details for player houseing such as durability, is it an instance or as you say just a shaded part of the world?, can monsters and other creatures enter it?, etc.

[dra6o0n]

Straw Hut. I really doubt monsters can ignore that.

Then again, pigs live in fancy houses, so it's not really that realistic to make houses and stuff.