[Game Update] - 735984

[Grinek]

40 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

** Winona, WX: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH

** Transfer Pearl to your base:  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH

** Bootleg Getaway: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH

** Using Telelocator Staff on the character itself (Useful for finding the lunar island quickly.): HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH

of course some narwhal had to say it without understanding my point 

[yyyyyyyyyyyyyyy]

1 hour ago, Uedo said:

Update: To add onto 'Keep in mind that we may revisit the tuning in the future, when you actually have to complete a post Shadow Rift questline before the Sanctum resets.' they clearly have a want to limit the amount you get right off the bat, I think everyone is ignoring that @V2C might be indicating that after completing the finale (or a quest line before it) we will have more options for getting them. I think they don't want us to go ham with them until the game is 'finished' - which makes complete sense if the world retires into more of a sandbox from that point onwards. 

Nobody ignores those words. And it doesn't mean current acquisition is acceptable. Dropping from Tower Guards is a way better placeholder.

And how long would it take? A month? Or more? Repairing Broken Waymarks is a joke now and how long would this situation last?

[Cruvimaster]

35 minutes ago, Grinek said:

of course some narwhal had to say it without understanding my point 

If you start using any adjectives, it’s because you’re embarrassed.

All the revolt I see here is because of the absurd ease of teleporting using the multiplication technique and which the devs declared to be intentional on their part (bug). Nowadays, green gems are not as rare as they used to be.

This isn't even a complete update, as there will be a part 2. And everything has already been said exhaustively by the devs.

[yyyyyyyyyyyyyyy]

26 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

This isn't even a complete update,

Think, Ah Q, think. Why there is no so much disagreement when Tower Guards play as Orbs' acquisition placeholder? Why there is no so much disagreement before this hotfix? Tell me why shortcut is not a kind of convenience but a kind of punishment? You are only right about one thing, this isn't even a complete update, is a ill-considered self-contradictory placeholder, making the whole Sanctum exploration become a weird joke. 

And I must remind you, as for other untenable reactionary points in your words, @Jenny 05 Justic 's replies has already refuted them "exhaustively". Of course it is your freedom to keep ignoring them, Mr. convenience hater.

[Cruvimaster]

34 minutes ago, yyyyyyyyyyyyyyy said:

Think, Ah Q, think. Why there is no so much disagreement when Tower Guards play as Orbs' acquisition placeholder? Why there is no so much disagreement before this hotfix? Tell me why shortcut is not a kind of convenience but a kind of punishment? You are only right about one thing, this isn't even a complete update, is a ill-considered self-contradictory placeholder, making the whole Sanctum exploration become a weird joke. 

And I must remind you, as for other untenable reactionary points in your words, @Jenny 05 Justic 's replies has already refuted them "exhaustively". Of course it is your freedom to keep ignoring them, Mr. convenience hater.

I'm not saying that all of your considerations are bad. Especially when JazzyGames posts it and I know he tests a lot within the game.

On the other hand, in my opinion, Klei should not overly facilitate a new teleportation system that invalidates all the work done previously. A new teleportation that makes characters (WX, Wortox, Winona and Wanda), items (Bootleg Getaway, beefalo as a mount) or structures (The Lazy Deserter, Hermit Home) completely lose their meaning in the game.

And devs tend to be firm when they have a clear objective of how things should work, as in the case of the heavy nerf on Shadow Maul.

But I understand that most people want Klei to implement a simple and cost-free teleportation mechanism like in soulslike games, for example.

[yyyyyyyyyyyyyyy]

11 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

A new teleportation that makes characters (WX, Wortox, Winona and Wanda), items (Bootleg Getaway, beefalo as a mount) or structures (The Lazy Deserter, Hermit Home) completely lose their meaning in the game.

Even if the green gems still work, it is far from "make them completely lose their meaning in the game". BoulderBough does make many materials much cheaper, but they are not inexhaustible. Farming BoulderBough itself is a big project already. And the examples you mention have their own advantages and get along. I'm not saying green gems is the only solution or farming Orbs without limit is absolutely right. I am just unwilling to see the disastrous gameplay that current placeholder leads to.

Edited June 7 by yyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[Cruvimaster]

4 minutes ago, yyyyyyyyyyyyyyy said:

Even if the green gems still work, it is far from "make them completely lose their meaning in the game". BoulderBough does make many materials much cheaper, but they are not inexhaustible. Farming BoulderBough itself is a big project already. And the examples you mention have their own advantages and get along. I'm not saying green gems is the only solution or farming Orbs without limit is absolutely right. I am just unwilling to see the disastrous gameplay that current placeholder leads to.

Certainly, we all want the implemented updates to be good. We don't want items that nobody uses, like so many that exist in the game. This is a point of convergence of opinions.

It's the eternal search for balance between not making a mechanic so difficult that people will ignore it or making it so broken that nobody will want to use the others.

[Maxil20]

6 hours ago, Jenny 05 Justic said:

Getting orbs right now feels like the Houndius Shootius — not worth the effort, yet too valuable to just ignore.

I heavily disagree with this. The difference between the houndius and the portation orbs is while you do slowly but surely amass houndius for farming, you only unlock temporary access to your warp network. It basically feels like you pay a subscription service to use portation orbs before you go back to what you are doing before anyway. I dislike this because it especially feels bad for megabases. You are actively punished for trying to expand your network past 1-2 focuses since you go from at least having a somewhat useful method via warping to them with telelocator staffs to using such an incredibly rare item that it's not remotely practical for just about any player. At least by comparison you always feel like you make permanent progress when you get another houndius, or fill in another mushlight with an enlightened shard. It's real progress that stays in your world and progresses alongside your other projects. I just don't feel remotely the same with these portation shards.

Edited June 7 by Maxil20

[Mike23Ua]

3 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

I heavily disagree with this. The difference between the houndius and the portation orbs is while you do slowly but surely amass houndius for farming, you only unlock temporary access to your warp network. It basically feels like you pay a subscription service to use portation orbs before you go back to what you are doing before anyway. I dislike this because it especially feels bad for megabases. You are actively punished for trying to expand your network past 1-2 focuses since you go from at least having a somewhat useful method via warping to them with telelocator staffs to using such an incredibly rare item that it's not remotely practical for just about any player. At least by comparison you always feel like you make permanent progress when you get another houndius, or fill in another mushlight with an enlightened shard. It's real progress that stays in your world and progresses alongside your other projects. I just don't feel remotely the same with these portation shards.

Okay so I only have a few questions and admit-ably the questions are probably going to sound very dumb but I’m just too curious not to ask this series of questions. What is even the point of these portation Orbs? I mean this sincerely… do they serve a very specific purpose?? I can’t play in betas but currently I’m sitting over here thinking to myself.

do I A Fight several bosses, do some lengthy RPG style quest, obtain a very limited use teleport item from said bosses, rinse and repeat as necessary.

OR… OR do I do like any sane logical person would do.. Craft a moon idol at the upgraded celestial portal and switch to a character who has a laughably easy teleportation ability/Network..?

Am I missing something important here? As long as the Upgraded Florid Postern exists and it’s as Easy as giving the Postern a Moon Idol to swap characters, what is the point of using any other method?

These are serious questions I’m not trying troll anyone.. I legitimately need to know.. are the orbs useable in an area of the game where character abilities aren’t? What’s the deal…

Edited June 7 by Mike23Ua

[Uedo]

7 hours ago, yyyyyyyyyyyyyyy said:

Nobody ignores those words. And it doesn't mean current acquisition is acceptable. Dropping from Tower Guards is a way better placeholder.

And how long would it take? A month? Or more? Repairing Broken Waymarks is a joke now and how long would this situation last?

Nobody ignores those words? Really? Can you substantiate that please? 

5 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

I'm not saying that all of your considerations are bad. Especially when JazzyGames posts it and I know he tests a lot within the game.

On the other hand, in my opinion, Klei should not overly facilitate a new teleportation system that invalidates all the work done previously. A new teleportation that makes characters (WX, Wortox, Winona and Wanda), items (Bootleg Getaway, beefalo as a mount) or structures (The Lazy Deserter, Hermit Home) completely lose their meaning in the game.

And devs tend to be firm when they have a clear objective of how things should work, as in the case of the heavy nerf on Shadow Maul.

But I understand that most people want Klei to implement a simple and cost-free teleportation mechanism like in soulslike games, for example.

There's no point Cruvimaster, I don't feel this is a thread for a conversation - people are here to just shout about how they feel. I appreciate your rationale though :P

[Baark0]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Okay so I only have a few questions and admit-ably the questions are probably going to sound very dumb but I’m just too curious not to ask this series of questions. What is even the point of these portation Orbs? I mean this sincerely… do they serve a very specific purpose?? I can’t play in betas but currently I’m sitting over here thinking to myself.

do I A Fight several bosses, do some lengthy RPG style quest, obtain a very limited use teleport item from said bosses, rinse and repeat as necessary.

OR… OR do I do like any sane logical person would do.. Craft a moon idol at the upgraded celestial portal and switch to a character who has a laughably easy teleportation ability/Network..?

Am I missing something important here? As long as the Upgraded Florid Postern exists and it’s as Easy as giving the Postern a Moon Idol to swap characters, what is the point of using any other method?

These are serious questions I’m not trying troll anyone.. I legitimately need to know.. are the orbs useable in an area of the game where character abilities aren’t? What’s the deal…

They have 2 main uses. The first is socketing them into telelocator focuses, where they will act as purple gems, only they wont shatter when something is teleported to that focus. The second use is letting you teleport to any telelocator with 3 orbs in it, regardless of your position and the focus' position. If you've used Winona's level 2 shadow affinity wormhole teleport, it's like that. It consumes the orb you use to teleport, but the 3 in the focus will remain.

The main reason you'd use these are if you're playing as someone who doesn't have map wide teleportation in their kit, as it's much cheaper than using purple gems and teleporting with telelocator staffs and focuses. Sure you could just swap, but there's a plethora of reasons as to why someone might not want to play one of the teleport characters. They could find their personality boring or they could prefer another character's perks, it really depends on who you ask.

[Uedo]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Okay so I only have a few questions and admit-ably the questions are probably going to sound very dumb but I’m just too curious not to ask this series of questions. What is even the point of these portation Orbs? I mean this sincerely… do they serve a very specific purpose?? I can’t play in betas but currently I’m sitting over here thinking to myself.

do I A Fight several bosses, do some lengthy RPG style quest, obtain a very limited use teleport item from said bosses, rinse and repeat as necessary.

OR… OR do I do like any sane logical person would do.. Craft a moon idol at the upgraded celestial portal and switch to a character who has a laughably easy teleportation ability/Network..?

Am I missing something important here? As long as the Upgraded Florid Postern exists and it’s as Easy as giving the Postern a Moon Idol to swap characters, what is the point of using any other method?

These are serious questions I’m not trying troll anyone.. I legitimately need to know.. are the orbs useable in an area of the game where character abilities aren’t? What’s the deal…

Mike - You're not missing anything.

Basically, they feel it's not worth the timesink. Thats the entire argument, i'd say that's sour grapes, they say something should be done, or .... I dunno, they'll post about it more or something?

[Mike23Ua]

32 minutes ago, Baark0 said:

They have 2 main uses. The first is socketing them into telelocator focuses, where they will act as purple gems, only they wont shatter when something is teleported to that focus. The second use is letting you teleport to any telelocator with 3 orbs in it, regardless of your position and the focus' position. If you've used Winona's level 2 shadow affinity wormhole teleport, it's like that. It consumes the orb you use to teleport, but the 3 in the focus will remain.

The main reason you'd use these are if you're playing as someone who doesn't have map wide teleportation in their kit, as it's much cheaper than using purple gems and teleporting with telelocator staffs and focuses. Sure you could just swap, but there's a plethora of reasons as to why someone might not want to play one of the teleport characters. They could find their personality boring or they could prefer another character's perks, it really depends on who you ask.

I mean for me, I consider extremely cheap and easy character switching to naturally just be part of the game now.. Klei even temporarily “banned” character switching when you start the Celestial Champion fight, you can’t use character swap until this thing is dead… that’s just how powerful swapping characters is. And With Winona, Wortox, And Wanda all having good strong cheap teleport networks (I haven’t played the new WX78 skill tree so no comment on that..) I dont understand why anyone would ever use any other method. Purple gems are easy to get in mass quantities if you have a hounds den producing red & blue gems you can combine. But… maybe when part Two of the update comes out we will have a better understanding of what the orbs are intended to be used for, and why character abilities won’t just be superior. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Baark0]

49 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I mean for me, I consider extremely cheap and easy character switching to naturally just be part of the game now.. Klei even temporarily “banned” character switching when you start the Celestial Champion fight, you can’t use character swap until this thing is dead… that’s just how powerful swapping characters is. And With Winona, Wortox, And Wanda all having good strong cheap teleport networks (I haven’t played the new WX78 skill tree so no comment on that..) I dont understand why anyone would ever use any other method. Purple gems are easy to get in mass quantities if you have a hounds den producing red & blue gems you can combine. But… maybe when part Two of the update comes out we will have a better understanding of what the orbs are intended to be used for, and why character abilities won’t just be superior. 🤷🏻‍♂️

The generic solution should be weaker than the character specific solution imo. If the teleport option available to everyone was better than Wanda's teleporting, what would be the point in picking Wanda? The point is to give the option to characters who don't have teleportation, so that people who don't want to play teleport characters can still have access to fast travel. 

[Cruvimaster]

The truth is that Klei has already provided a solution for the most important teleportation (avoiding navigation to the islands). They've also provided a cheap return teleport to a chosen point on the map (Portage Conch). And on the continents, mobility is increased by choosing a Beefalo. And for those playing in groups, The Lazy Deserter is the cheapest teleport available. Saying there are no teleportation options is rather strange.

[Pumking7]

7 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

A new teleportation that makes characters (WX, Wortox, Winona and Wanda), items (Bootleg Getaway, beefalo as a mount) or structures (The Lazy Deserter, Hermit Home) completely lose their meaning in the game.

I think this is a bit of an overstatement that overlooks why people wanted this for so long. The characters you mentioned all have relatively easy ways of accessing teleportation in their base kit, WX and Wanda can set up permanent structures and Wortox using a panflute or storing easily obtainable souls in jars can easily teleport. Winona requires a bit more set-up but also has a equally strong method, which can even be shared by other Winonas. Beefalo aren't that fast and usually still result in the tedious process of pressing the forward key Items like the bootleg getaway and hermit home have more niche uses with bootleg getaway being only really useful for ocean transport and treasure farming (which it is very strong and valuable for!). Hermit home (which I assume you're referring to the portage conch?) can only be used on surface and only teleported to home base which is a welcome change, but neglects cave teleportation back home is not given, which should be most needed as the long and narrow pathways, large biomes and far away set pieces always cause a groan walking there and back on foot. Lazy deserter (while should be left out since it requires specific conditions under co-op) is definitely a underutilized item, but it being niche should not be assumed players are overlooking it and aren't thankful for it, but rather it is awkward and co-op teleportation could be improved upon as well.

I think how difficult the orb fragments is also not considered here, as Fuelweaver must be killed twice and the the archives must be looted for their portation orbs including fighting the guards. This isn't as low effort as other methods, as supposedly killing FW and the guards along with waiting twenty days will be (?) permanently required.

7 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

At least by comparison you always feel like you make permanent progress when you get another houndius, or fill in another mushlight with an enlightened shard.

This is a good point but the concept of a boss only being killable by killing other bosses is such an awkward bottleneck for loot, and Ancient Guardian is the only boss that suffers in this regard. I mean imagine having to kill Celestial Champion for Crab King to respawn it just feels rigid having to kill one boss for another (but at least Ancient Guardian has amazing loot compared to Crab King's pitiful loot pile welp). Maybe AG could be revived only for the horn drop during shadow rifts, would be fun.

Also your post brought up a fun point of the temporary nature of orb fragments. Arriving at and traversing FW's arena for many like me I assume is a boring and tedious drag so they'll use the orb fragments to skip this step and arrive right at the arena. It just is kind of funny to me that you're "forced" to keep up on properly collecting orb fragments so you can actually use your network, very funny.

[Uedo]

Well, be that as it may, it's been decided by the recent posts.

No point crying over spilt milk - i'd just await part 2

[yyyyyyyyyyyyyyy]

5 hours ago, Uedo said:

Nobody ignores those words? Really? Can you substantiate that please? 

I am unwilling to say this. Don't think people are blind or stupid. And I suppose this need not to be substantiated. It is unreasonable to feel relieved for a blurry plan and your own wishful thinking.

5 hours ago, Uedo said:

There's no point Cruvimaster, I don't feel this is a thread for a conversation - people are here to just shout about how they feel.

5 hours ago, Uedo said:

Basically, they feel it's not worth the timesink. Thats the entire argument, i'd say that's sour grapes, they say something should be done, or .... I dunno, they'll post about it more or something?

1 hour ago, Uedo said:

Well, be that as it may, it's been decided by the recent posts.

No point crying over spilt milk - i'd just await part 2

As I said, it is your freedom to ignore the detailed replies here. If you are really confident and brave enough, you won't pretend not to see Jenny and Cassilu's replies and keep calling those well-founded concerns and disagreement "sour grapes". DST will be a perfect game with your self-deceiving and empathy-lacking selective ignorance. 

Everyone looks forward to part 2, but not in your way.

Edited June 8 by yyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[Maxil20]

I do wanna say that while I certainly am not happy with the current direction, I do think there’s a lot of iffy wording tm on both sides that I feel is not helping with the overall discussion and I feel might lead to things getting iffy (well, more than they currently are…) if they keep escalating.
 

I wanna try wording my thoughts in a longish post of how I feel with this (might go back to my thread and rewrite the post a bit? I wrote that at 5 AM and I probably could have explained it a lot better…) in a way that hopefully explains why I feel a bit odd about this. I’ve got a lot to say but IRL events are in the way (not in a terrible way, at least!).

[Mr.Tarunio]

my only gripe is ancient fuel weaver's 20 day cooldown compared to celestial champion's weird no cooldown.

[JazzyGames]

17 minutes ago, Mr.Tarunio said:

my only gripe is ancient fuel weaver's 20 day cooldown compared to celestial champion's weird no cooldown.

Isn’t it funny how big of a difference that cooldown makes for players? Even though the CC grind is expensive and tedious we accept it because it’s not time-locked, so we can just spend as much time as we want focused on grinding that one important resource without being forced to take a break.

The closest parallel I’ve ever felt to that experience is in this beta, setting the ancient gateway timer to instant and locking in on grinding polished orbs, before the FW requirement was added to resetting the sanctum.

Edited June 8 by JazzyGames

[Cliffford W.]

17 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

No, it doesnt make sense. It’s a deconstruction staff, not a construction staff. In the craft, we are breaking down the orb into fragments.

Besides the Green staff was a sucky solution anyway, the way to obtain it normally should be good and not bandaided by the possibility of duping them. I wish at some point it ends up being something like the old way. Maybe killing all 4 of the guard towers in a room will make the crafting station create some fragments.

This makes me wonder how much of a chaos would it cause if the dragonfly wall pathfinding got fixed. Irreversible damage 

Fixing the structure pathfinding in general would create outrage. 

[Pumking7]

3 hours ago, Uedo said:

Well, be that as it may, it's been decided by the recent posts.

No point crying over spilt milk - i'd just await part 2

Its a little bit silly to dismiss criticism because we should just wait for Klei to make the next decision for us, when Klei internally requires player feedback to make the game the best for everyone. Some of the worst or most questionable decisions in updates have been because Klei is "finished" and pushes out the update immediately and often because of their schedule takes years to change game mechanisms to benefit everyone. I think now is the most important time to get our feelings across so Klei can properly understand how the orb fragment economy should work in part 2.

We should engage in active conversations with each other since its very fun to hear why people either agree or dislike this new method of teleportation.

1 hour ago, Mr.Tarunio said:

my only gripe is ancient fuel weaver's 20 day cooldown compared to celestial champion's weird no cooldown.

 

57 minutes ago, JazzyGames said:

the CC grind is expensive and tedious we accept it because it’s not time-locked

Apologies for quoting two people here but these two statements describe why I enjoy the arbitrary timers included with boss kills. I really despise killing Celestial champion because it feels optimal to kill celestial champion as many times as you want to. Since Celestial Champion has 37,000 health this very quickly feels like a slog, included with the fact that one celestial champion kill barely provides that much light to a base anyway. This made me lose the magic of fighting celestial champion however most other bosses due to fighting them only that once, makes each kill feel more meaningful.

Personally FW should not be included in resetting the archives (maybe past the first time?) just because FW is already so loot dense already and without a doubt is the most rewarding boss in the game. This comes to be a problem when a lot of modern bosses have loot that seems sub-par, not even worth getting or only have one specific item they give (FW loot is easily better than both of the lunar bosses loot combined together, I think this is both a FW problem and new boss problem). I hate the idea of bottlenecking boss loot behind another boss (Ancient Guardian mmm), but if it were given to the new shadow endgame boss this might at least guarantee the new boss will have purpose on repeat kills compared to many new bosses.

[00petar00]

I main Wanda and I want teleportation to be available for everyone. I don't understand how people against this for the sake of their mains like Wanda/Wortox/WX/Winona don't see it, teleportation is needed to make the game much more enjoyable and this would allow for future buffs to these characters If teleportation is a big part of their kit.

Everyone that is playing a character with teleportation solely for this ability shouldn't be "locked" to that character as it shows that they don't like character's design.

We have lazy deserter and Wanda that can be used to teleport others, why should players on a long term world still need to use beefalo for travel and spend a lot of time doing so?

Green gems should be used here, why shouldn't we be able to duplicate? This removes choice from players but I wouldn't say that green gems should be the main solution. Having to wait 20 days and killing FW just to farm orbs is too much, both requirements should be removed and like 30-40 fragments should drop.

Edited June 8 by 00petar00

[Jakepeng99]

2 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

I main Wanda and I want teleportation to be available for everyone. I don't understand how people against this for the sake of their mains like Wanda/Wortox/WX/Winona don't see it, teleportation is needed to make the game much more enjoyable and this would allow for future buffs to these characters If teleportation is a big part of their kit.

Everyone that is playing a character with teleportation solely for this ability shouldn't be "locked" to that character as it shows that they don't like character's design.

We have lazy deserter and Wanda that can be used to teleport others, why should players on a long term world still need to use beefalo for travel and spend a lot of time doing so?

Green gems should be used here, why shouldn't we be able to duplicate? This removes choice from players but I wouldn't say that green gems should be the main solution. Having to wait 20 days and killing FW just to farm orbs is too much, both requirements should be removed and like 30-40 fragments should drop.

Yeah. Like after you explored your whole world, walking around everywhere can get boring there should be decent methods to teleport. If they keep it that the tele staff is the cheapest way and it’s better just to fill the focus with orbs Thats ideal for me

2 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Green gems should be used here, why shouldn't we be able to duplicate? This removes choice from players but I wouldn't say that green gems should be the main solution. Having to wait 20 days and killing FW just to farm orbs is too much, both requirements should be removed and like 30-40 fragments should drop.

It makes no sense. Imagine deconstructing a thulicite fragment and it becomes thulicite. It’s a deconstruction staff not a construction staff.