Raid Bosses vs Wolfgang (x2) & Boss scaling controversy

[Mike23Ua]

Wolfgang deals 2x damage just for simply being Wolfgang, so a boss fight for Wolfgang is automatically Half Health. A 10,000 hp boss is 5,000hp for Wolfgang. But when Two players are playing as Wolfgang a 5,000hp boss is a 2,500hp boss. Why is this game designed like this??? Why can we not have proper boss scaling? It’s been a controversial topic on these forums to the point that JoeW locks most conversations about it. But WHY IS IT LIKE THIS?! Why is a boss fight when fought alone (and not as Wolfgang) a long drag out battle, but when there’s two players both playing Wolfgang the (otherwise long) fight is over in seconds?

Why is content scaling such a controversial topic when 2 Wolfgang’s just existing is crazily busted..? I’m sorry.. I just don’t get it. 😂

[DinsdaleP]

This might have had some basis in reality a few years ago, but now... not so much. With the skill trees, everybody's damage potential went completely off the rails.

Just a few examples:

• Wigfrid with her Charged Elding Spear comes pretty close to Wolfgang, and outdamages him with an Enlightened Crown... which she can keep active forever
• Wortox can deal double damage OR AoE with his endgame weapon, while shrugging off hits
• Willow either does hilariously high damage against bosses, or has AoE to completely delete minions
• Wendy can supercharge Abigail multiple ways, including adding damage to every character hitting the same target
• WX-78 has SPIIIIN

Double damage Wolfgang and how he facerolls over the game isn't really relevant by this point, many characters can do that and so much more.

[Maxil20]

1 hour ago, DinsdaleP said:

Double damage Wolfgang and how he facerolls over the game isn't really relevant by this point, many characters can do that and so much more.

I feel like people forget that boss fighting isn’t the main aspect of the game far too often when it comes to discussions like this. Boss fights are a fragment of the total days of a playtime unless you are deadset on speedrunning the game. Wolfgang’s 2X damage will speed up boss fights, but the rest of his kit doesn’t make as significant of an impact in the long run. So many other character perks will significantly improve your overall efficiency, especially once you take boons like resource harvesting and overall mobility into account, let alone bringing external sources of damage like followers to speed up repeat kills in your favor.

[Tranoze]

4 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

But when Two players are playing as Wolfgang a 5,000hp boss is a 2,500hp boss. Why is this game designed like this??? 

But when Two bosses are playing vs each other, two 10000hp bosses is two 0hp bosses. Why is this game designed like this???

[Cheggf]

You already know the answers to these questions since I've seen you in the million threads talking about scaling and explaining why it's not in the game. 

[Cruvimaster]

And Wilson manages to defeat all the bosses solo, and the devs always adjust the bosses to this pattern (1x damage) during the beta, as was the case with Warbot/Scion.

I've seen live streams where a solo player defeats a boss without major problems, and I've also seen live streams where six players team up against the same boss and everyone dies and uses the "rollback" command.

[Mysterious box]

Honestly I think Wes is the problem that sadistic mime uses dark magic to extend the suffering of his foes we need to do something about this!

[Schneid_101]

12 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Why is a boss fight when fought alone (and not as Wolfgang) a long drag out battle, but when there’s two players both playing Wolfgang the (otherwise long) fight is over in seconds?

I mean, obviously.

[Mike23Ua]

4 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Honestly I think Wes is the problem that sadistic mime uses dark magic to extend the suffering of his foes we need to do something about this!

Best comment on the internet for 2026 award goes to this. Thanks for the laugh. 🤣

[hyoton123]

There’s a lot of things I don’t agree with in this post, but I guess I would start by asking what specific bosses you think need scaling. 

[Mike23Ua]

35 minutes ago, hyoton123 said:

There’s a lot of things I don’t agree with in this post, but I guess I would start by asking what specific bosses you think need scaling. 

All of them??? They need to be easier Solo, (scaled down..) while harder when there’s 2+ Wolfgang’s hitting it (scaled up) this isn’t just about DST, it’s about the balance of the franchise as a whole.. Don’t Starve, Reign of Giants, Shipwrecked, Hamlet, Together, and Soon: Elsewhere.

[Mysterious box]

37 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

All of them??? They need to be easier Solo, (scaled down..) while harder when there’s 2+ Wolfgang’s hitting it (scaled up) this isn’t just about DST, it’s about the balance of the franchise as a whole.. Don’t Starve, Reign of Giants, Shipwrecked, Hamlet, Together, and Soon: Elsewhere.

Survivors are powerful enough that this isn't necessary anymore if practice isn't cutting it consider leaning on survivors with abilities geared towards easing the burden.

[hyoton123]

42 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

All of them??? 

I see. Do you find the bosses being too easy for 2+ wolfgangs to be a regular problem in your game experiences?

[Maxil20]

59 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

...while harder when there’s 2+ Wolfgang’s hitting it (scaled up)

Why should players be punished by picking the definitive damage character? All this would do is encourage players to pick other characters that do less damage but have better non combat perks to avoid a damage penalty while still retaining great versatility.

[Wawchik]

Thanks for the daily dose of nonsense Mike

[AliceShiki]

I would be fine with an optional setting that is disabled by default that increases boss HP if you're playing with multiple people.

As in, a setting that would let bosses not be melted by friends who know what they are doing, want a bigger challenge, and are playing together.

Players shouldn't be punished for wanting to play with their friends though, hence why it should be optional and off by default.

[Cheggf]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

All of them??? They need to be easier Solo, (scaled down..) while harder when there’s 2+ Wolfgang’s hitting it (scaled up) this isn’t just about DST, it’s about the balance of the franchise as a whole.. Don’t Starve, Reign of Giants, Shipwrecked, Hamlet, Together, and Soon: Elsewhere.

They most definitely do not need to be easier solo. Since you said "All of them???" like it's obvious, you must also mean the bosses which if anything should be scaled up like Deerclops who, without even doing anything special, dies in only about two dozen hits. Two dozen hits when the player character attacks more than twice a second. 

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

They most definitely do not need to be easier solo. Since you said "All of them???" like it's obvious, you must also mean the bosses which if anything should be scaled up like Deerclops who, without even doing anything special, dies in only about two dozen hits. Two dozen hits when the player character attacks more than twice a second. 

Ironically, that’s sort of the entire point. Deerclops is easy to solo and kill quickly (assuming you actually want to kill it) but if it’s that quick to kill Solo, it doesn’t even exist when Multiple people hit it. Crystal Deerclops fairs out a bit better..

but the Math of this thread is that just by having two Wolfgang’s (in a game world that supports up to 6 players) that a bosses health is by default, Half of Half. Of course there are other characters you can pick and play as.. but 27,500 + 1 Wolfgang = 13,750 + 1 more Wolfgang = 6,875 this doesn’t even factor in the built in Mechanic where the boss collapses to the ground and faints if enough people smack at it at once.

 

[Cheggf]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Ironically, that’s sort of the entire point. Deerclops is easy to solo and kill quickly (assuming you actually want to kill it) but if it’s that quick to kill Solo, it doesn’t even exist when Multiple people hit it. Crystal Deerclops fairs out a bit better..

but the Math of this thread is that just by having two Wolfgang’s (in a game world that supports up to 6 players) that a bosses health is by default, Half of Half. Of course there are other characters you can pick and play as.. but 27,500 + 1 Wolfgang = 13,750 + 1 more Wolfgang = 6,875 this doesn’t even factor in the built in Mechanic where the boss collapses to the ground and faints if enough people smack at it at once.

 

It doesn't even exist when one person hits it. It dies in like 15 seconds. That's not a boss fight, but for some reason you want to make it even shorter. 

[Well-met]

this thread is like a time machine to 2017

[DegenerateFurry]

Bosses shouldn't scale to characters. Wolfgang doing double damage is the point of him, so having bosses scale to counteract that would make him a more inconvenient Wilson.

Bosses should, and by default scale based on how many players are present, regardless of what character they're playing. It should be on by default because that's more accessible for new players, and you can turn off scaling for the current experience. Raid bosses should have less HP by default and do certain actions less often (Fuelweaver's shenanigans, Bee Queen's grumble spawning, etc) against solo players, but should scale up to their current values at 2-3 players and beyond that with more.

There should also be an option for "harder scaling", where the current values are the baseline and it gets harder the more players you have, with the potential for a Misery Toadstool fight that takes as long with six players as it currently does with one. 

This makes absolutely everyone happy and there is no reason not to implement it beyond hating newbies.

Edited June 3 by DegenerateFurry

[Bumber64]

On 6/1/2026 at 8:19 PM, DinsdaleP said:

Wortox can deal double damage OR AoE with his endgame weapon, while shrugging off hits

I feel like this is a weak one, since the planar abilities use up your soul echoes, which require continuous soul hops, which have an animation delay, which counteracts your DPS. It's not like you're able to just do constant 2x or AoE with each attack.

The endgame weapon in question is the scythe, and never the maul, because he's restricted to the scythe only. Taking this affinity locks you out of "shrugging off hits", but that's okay because it's actually just bone armor requiring CC crown and soul echoes. Both available only after you've reached rifts.

Soul pierce and decoy are what's available pre-rifts. Pierce is a pain to set up (and is intended to do very little damage on bosses), while decoy suffers from needing a full soul hop (requiring you to manually cancel your echoes for DPS). Wortox is an explorer and support, not a boss killer.

Edited June 3 by Bumber64

[Mike23Ua]

8 hours ago, Well-met said:

this thread is like a time machine to 2017

My problem is that the games product description says you can play with friends, or strike out on your own. There’s even a (Semi**) Offline Mode to play Single player, but unlike what the product description would lead you to believe, the game is almost entirely designed with Multiplayer in mind, leaving the Solo player experience to either be frustrating, extra Grindy or Machivoest levels of skill required to actually enjoy it.

Right now Risk of Rain 2 is on sale on Xbox Live, and it’s product description ALSO reads you can play with friends or alone. But is the game actually playable alone???

I haven’t actually bought RoR2 in order to be able to accurately tell you, but when it comes to DST.. you either “Get Gud” or you “Get Friends” there is no single player as the game plain and simply isn’t designed to accommodate for it.

But as long as 2 Wolfgang’s can take 27,500hp raid boss down to 6,875 just by picking Wolfgang, I will ALWAYS have to ask why the game doesn’t have actual proper boss & content scaling..

Why if something as broken as two Wolfgang’s can exist, why things like the Moonstorm Event can’t have a hard cap on how many birds are allowed to spawn on a Solo Player who is attempting to do the Moonstorm event alone.

Is it doable? Yes.. is it more easily doable with friends? Also yes… but is it content that’s in the game that the developers coded for people to see and enjoy yet due to the event itself requiring a specific skill threshold or a group of “Together” players that locks casuals & newbies out of reaching and experiencing? 100% Absolutely.

Could there be less birds during the event when there’s less players around to protect the process? Absolutely..

Can bosses be scaled down or upward to provide an adequate challenge to solo players and larger groups? Also absolutely.

Despite the product description: Is DST perfectly playable solo? No.. no it’s not, you either grind a lot, become highly skilled, or you get frustrated and give up.

[Cruvimaster]

What impresses me is how people can play a game for so many years and still be so bad. A newbie, okay, but people with thousands of forum posts for so many years is impressive.
 

[GrapeVruit]

8 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

What impresses me is how people can play a game for so many years and still be so bad. A newbie, okay, but people with thousands of forum posts for so many years is impressive.
 

I mean, I can sort of relate. I've been playing Fortnite ever since 2018, and while I got a good few wins under my belt and decent building skills, I get smoked by most players that aren't bots. Guess some players are built different.