Raid Bosses vs Wolfgang (x2) & Boss scaling controversy

[Mike23Ua]

3 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

People literally do the entire quest line just to get the bin for how gamechanging it is for day to day use. I genuinely don't think you understand just how impactful the bin makes the day to day experience. It's one of the best tools in the game.

Yeah see.. I’m not the type of person who just plays day by day, I need something to actually be doing, and in that regard: there’s the long RPG style quest that rewards you something “good” but only AFTER you never need to use it again. Does any of this make any sense to you? I suppose I could grind the bosses over & over again (why I’d do that I haven’t got the slightest clue because once you obtain their loot there really isn’t much point to re-fighting them again…) the rest of the game outside of the Quest you go on to reach items you no longer need, leaves very little to actually be explored and enjoyed.

Whens the last time we got a new biome with new mobs, resources and craftables that didn’t also come with a new boss?

Why can’t the new “Thermal Tools” from the fancy new Beta be a mandatory requirement to mining Hardened Ice when Winter becomes a Harsh Blizzard & regular (non thermal) pickaxes no longer do the job to chip away Ice? 
It gives me an actual reason to want to go get the tool, because I’ll need it for Winter V2.

If Wild Cave rifts were able to leak acid into bee Queen bundling wraps and cause the items inside to spoil, while the Lunar Rift Polar Bearger Bin was immune to this same acid Leakage I would actually NEED it.

But Day to Day play? Bro… if I’m not fighting bosses or decorating a base, there isn’t much use for it.

[AliceShiki]

2 hours ago, IAmAFurrz said:

wall-less and icestaff-less df is more fun but also can jsut randomly **** you over bc df randomly decides to spawn 2 (or more) larvae on the same pond, the more she does it the more exponentially hard it is to recover due to their health pool as well as the massive aoe fire aura dmg that depletes your health in few seconds.

Yeah... If you don't have the damage output to quickly kill the Larvae, the best bet at this point is just to run around, constantly fleeing for the larvae and waiting for them to die once the 30s timer expires.

And then you only need to try killing the last one yourself to avoid the 50/50 of Dfly spawning more Larvae or going Enraged.

It's honestly pretty fun to manage that IMO, but Dfly spawning 2+ Larvae on the last pond made it very annoying at times... And well, it's usually more fun to have the dmg to kill the Larvae and actually force Enraged Mode guaranteed.

[hyoton123]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Whens the last time we got a new biome with new mobs, resources and craftables that didn’t also come with a new boss?

Fumarole?? No, mega blight isn't a boss.

 

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

If Wild Cave rifts were able to leak acid into bee Queen bundling wraps and cause the items inside to spoil, while the Lunar Rift Polar Bearger Bin was immune to this same acid Leakage I would actually NEED it.

Bundling wraps aren't good enough to devalue at that point in the game.

[Draggofroot]

4 hours ago, IAmAFurrz said:

it randomly just being an instant loss sucks, like genuinely no other boss just instantly kills from 1 singular mistake (and the gimmick itself is quite overtuned since you both get knocked back (sometimes twice) and slowed on top of the massive dmg that you have to tank for the first few seconds which is enough to reduce you to half health even with the current best planar protection).

i get its a ticking time bomb but that combined with the leg gimmick you can get instant loss from 2 gimmicks

i mean i get that its very punishing but at the same time its REEALLY easy to counter

the roar is a telegraph and he CHOOSES where to aim as SOON as he begins the stomping animation, so when he roars i teleport to where i want him to stomp (towards the end it would be into an already existing static field) and then teleport back

[Dragonboooorn]

Bro woke up and decided to make a post crying about Wolfgang being game breaker, son Im crine rn 

 

[Nikki Darks]

On 6/2/2026 at 3:16 AM, Mike23Ua said:

Wolfgang deals 2x damage just for simply being Wolfgang, so a boss fight for Wolfgang is automatically Half Health. A 10,000 hp boss is 5,000hp for Wolfgang. But when Two players are playing as Wolfgang a 5,000hp boss is a 2,500hp boss. Why is this game designed like this??? Why can we not have proper boss scaling? It’s been a controversial topic on these forums to the point that JoeW locks most conversations about it. But WHY IS IT LIKE THIS?! Why is a boss fight when fought alone (and not as Wolfgang) a long drag out battle, but when there’s two players both playing Wolfgang the (otherwise long) fight is over in seconds?

Why is content scaling such a controversial topic when 2 Wolfgang’s just existing is crazily busted..? I’m sorry.. I just don’t get it. 😂

Can't really add boss scaling and that's because doubling, tripling, quadruplings, etc, etc the hp of bosses will never be equal or proportional to that same number of players.

If you make it so that boss HP scales based on how many players there are on the server ( 2 = double, 3 = triple) you run into an issue of it not being proportional UNLESS everyone is Wolfgang.

What do you do if you're playing as Wes and Wortox and the hp gets doubled?

Wendy, Willow and Wormwood and it gets tripled?

It's not as simple as just increased boss hp based on how many players there are in the game unless every player is playing the same character.

[IAmAFurrz]

12 hours ago, Draggofroot said:

i mean i get that its very punishing but at the same time its REEALLY easy to counter

theres also the multplayer incompatibility they made it to be with how its aggro is random at times, again smthn being so irrevertable for smthn so far into the questline sucks ass, its also having to refight the obnoxious warbot too that also has an awful gimmick. theres a reason why i dont complain about the light beam attack despite how devastating it is, its bc it keeps the fight engaging and not instantly make you lose on the spot. scion is uninteresting and it is overtuned because its so boring

14 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

waiting for them to die once the 30s timer expires

this also sucks, but the main problem will always be how much health and damage they deal rather than having to dodge 1 of them and df at the same time cuz thats interesting dodging pattern (sadly, it drags out the fight even more due to df's gigantic health pool per phase)

14 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

Dfly spawning 2+ Larvae on the last pond made it very annoying at times

hurray for dogshit rng in dst once more. we love rng give me more devastating rng checks om nom nom nom nom

[IAmAFurrz]

14 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

have the dmg to kill the Larvae

yea, hence why i was saying its health is overtuned. just tone it down to like 350 or 300 and itd be a fine fight wall-less (still doesnt make enraged mode or her gigantic healthpool anymore acceptable tho)

outside of bq, most bosses have great design, just extremely overtuned in some department

[Cruvimaster]

I see that the game is more balanced for one player than for six. If the game was designed more for a duo of players with two Wilsons, then a Wolfgang would be the balance for one player.

I even think that combat with two players is worse than alone (except for AFW or Toadstool), because it becomes a mess.

[Echsrick]

thats litteraly wolfgangs whole gimick, do more damage, you wanted to tell me you wish to remove his only real gimmick?

[Draggofroot]

23 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

thats litteraly wolfgangs whole gimick, do more damage, you wanted to tell me you wish to remove his only real gimmick?

honestly i thought that the entire community agreed that wolfgang was supposed to be an easy mode character, why are we complaining bout him

[Jussatoon]

8 minutes ago, Draggofroot said:

honestly i thought that the entire community agreed that wolfgang was supposed to be an easy mode character, why are we complaining bout him

Don't get it confused, there is no "we" in this case. 

[Draggofroot]

 

2 minutes ago, Jussatoon said:

Don't get it confused, there is no "we" in this case. 

ykwim man

[Mike23Ua]

5 hours ago, Nikki Darks said:

Can't really add boss scaling and that's because doubling, tripling, quadruplings, etc, etc the hp of bosses will never be equal or proportional to that same number of players.

If you make it so that boss HP scales based on how many players there are on the server ( 2 = double, 3 = triple) you run into an issue of it not being proportional UNLESS everyone is Wolfgang.

What do you do if you're playing as Wes and Wortox and the hp gets doubled?

Wendy, Willow and Wormwood and it gets tripled?

It's not as simple as just increased boss hp based on how many players there are in the game unless every player is playing the same character.

I would have to heavily disagree with the thought that they can’t add it, IF it were to be added it would probably just be basic scaling like any good MMO where the difficulty of the boss or the challenges of the specific area of the game you are in, scale to match the number of players actively in the vicinity of it. Rather that be up or downward like any good MMO. 
True DST is not an MMO.. but it supports up to 6 players on Xbox & PlayStation, (I'm unsure of how many PC officially supports without mods) And Nintendo Switch Supports up to 4 I believe? 

My way of thinking is uhm well to put it simply, I like to think 4 or 5 steps at a time, for example back when the forums were suggesting to added elevated land to DST I was already thinking about the possible puzzles & challenges elevated lands could open up for the devs to get creative with.

Same process here with Boss content and scaling, we KNOW that a new game is coming out DSE, we ALSO Know that development on DST will continue alongside DSE (though probably at a slower pace if I had to reasonably guess) But what we have to ask NOW is how many players will DSE support? We know from trailers it’s at least 4. And how will DSE handle boss content and scaling? Will it be the same as DST or will they have come up with a better way to approach it once DSE launches? And THEN you have to ask yourself if it would be worth the development time and resources to back-track to DST and also incorporate some of what they’ve learned to do better with the release of DSE into DST?

Reminder: Some of the content changes that were made in DST were actually back-tracked and added into Solo DS, such as the big one: Beefalo taming and fences.

This is what goes on inside my head.

[mima_]

so cus wolf have 2x damage boss need to be scaled twice as much?
does wendy weak punch make the boss weak also ? 

tbh, if more bosses behave like klaus where it have spell attack on each player that actually can harm others, will make fight a bit more chaotic on multiplayer fight. instead of meddling with HP i would much prefer this.
 

[AliceShiki]

6 hours ago, IAmAFurrz said:

this also sucks, but the main problem will always be how much health and damage they deal rather than having to dodge 1 of them and df at the same time cuz thats interesting dodging pattern (sadly, it drags out the fight even more due to df's gigantic health pool per phase)

I honestly don't think 27k HP is that bad... Like, yeah, it will usually take a whole game day to kill Dfly solo, so you'll need to have preparations for spending the night within the arena, but... I dunno, it feels fine to me? It passes by pretty quickly overall.

6 hours ago, IAmAFurrz said:

yea, hence why i was saying its health is overtuned. just tone it down to like 350 or 300 and itd be a fine fight wall-less (still doesnt make enraged mode or her gigantic healthpool anymore acceptable tho)

But yes, Larvae having 300~350 HP would make them a lot more reasonable to kill, and I'd enjoy the fight more like that~

I have fun with Enraged Mode, for the record. The kiting there is pretty tight, and that's part of the fun to me.

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, mima_ said:

so cus wolf have 2x damage boss need to be scaled twice as much?
does wendy weak punch make the boss weak also ? 

tbh, if more bosses behave like klaus where it have spell attack on each player that actually can harm others, will make fight a bit more chaotic on multiplayer fight. instead of meddling with HP i would much prefer this.
 

I imagine (much like the DST Wiki) that the bosses can be “reasonably” scaled to match the amount of players that are hitting it, and does not account for rather you are Wolfgang or Wes. I also much prefer it to scale more then just boss HP or Minion HP.. it should also adjust for example how many minions at once can spawn on a Solo player, and maybe like with the case of Klaus, how many additional targets the boss targets.

It would be really neat if the bosses abilities also scaled based on how many players are hitting it too.. using Dragonfly as the example: if enough players are hitting it (or if it passes a certain damage threshold) it will lose a scale off its body and faint to the ground. A Solo player CAN get scales, but the likelihood of doing so requires significant damage output most the time (and trust me I’ve tried to fight this boss for YEARS Solo) but most times I have attempted to fight her I never could trigger the “Faint” 

the way I personally see it, is that Enraged mode should only exist in multiplayer (because she’s losing scales off her body, becoming more vulnerable and is in danger of dying & is now more violently fighting for her life) which means: A solo player who can not reliably trigger the scale loss and faint, will never even see her Enraged form during fighting her.

Some “Minion Spam” bosses could be made easier to Solo by limiting the amount of minions that are allowed to spawn when there aren’t enough players to handle combating against all of them + the main boss itself.

So so many people fight Dragonfly by Walling off her Larvae and completely ignoring that entire part of her fight.

But with DSE announced, and DST still confirmed to be developed alongside it.. these are the conversations we should be having about how the future development of both games are shaped.

Because ultimately: I believe Klei’s main goal should be to make the content of their games enjoyable to as many players as they possibly can, for years I have straight up Ignored engaging with boss fights altogether because I knew the outcome, I’ll die.. I’ll rollback, I’ll accomplish nothing in the process. I’ll get frustrated.. I’ll convince a friend to join my world as Wolfgang long enough to make the fight less tedious, then I’ll actually enjoy the content and not feel miserable attempting to do it.

[YouKnowWho142]

Why even put controversy on the title of the post? This really didn’t need to be so instigative

[Dragonboooorn]

23 minutes ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

Why even put controversy on the title of the post? This really didn’t need to be so instigative

Paid Anti Wolfgang propaganda

[mima_]

3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

It would be really neat if the bosses abilities also scaled based on how many players are hitting it too.. using Dragonfly as the example: if enough players are hitting it (or if it passes a certain damage threshold) it will lose a scale off its body and faint to the ground. A Solo player CAN get scales, but the likelihood of doing so requires significant damage output most the time (and trust me I’ve tried to fight this boss for YEARS Solo) but most times I have attempted to fight her I never could trigger the “Faint” 

i think u forgot the game is called Dont Starve "Together" it was designed to be a multiplayer gameplay. so the faint mechanic from dragonfly also designed for damage that can be dealt by multiple wilson in mind, it was meant to be harder "solo" because it was not designed to around a solo player. if you choose to play solo then the game already gave solution to be able to feel the mechanic that can be achieved as multiplayer such as wolfgang, wurt, maxwell or maybe wx now. 

u should change the way to see it this game as SOLO even they call it "can be play solo" but it was clear as the title it was meat to be play "TOGETHER". so dont act so shocked if some mechanic isnt achieveable easily by playing alone, or feeling it way too impossible to be done solo but easier together and feel its unfair, where its all fair and well cus it was build for multiplayer in mind. 

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, mima_ said:

i think u forgot the game is called Dont Starve "Together" it was designed to be a multiplayer gameplay. so the faint mechanic from dragonfly also designed for damage that can be dealt by multiple wilson in mind, it was meant to be harder "solo" because it was not designed to around a solo player. if you choose to play solo then the game already gave solution to be able to feel the mechanic that can be achieved as multiplayer such as wolfgang, wurt, maxwell or maybe wx now. 

u should change the way to see it this game as SOLO even they call it "can be play solo" but it was clear as the title it was meat to be play "TOGETHER". so dont act so shocked if some mechanic isnt achieveable easily by playing alone, or feeling it way too impossible to be done solo but easier together and feel its unfair, where its all fair and well cus it was build for multiplayer in mind. 

When you say multiplayer, how many people at a bare minimum does Klei expect to play? Because let me tell you I have spent ALL DAY TODAY trying to kill the Celestial Champion, I had a friend join my world as Wolfgang so we can achieve killing him even faster, and so far: We made it to phase 3, roll back sends us back to the start of phase 3 and holy hell… Roll back- Wait out loading screen, Boss in Face as soon as it’s done loading, Die. Rollback again.

It has NOT been fun and at this point WHO does Klei design this game for machiovists? Expert Kiters? This thing ignores any armor even though I stock piled commander helms ahead of the fight, I created about 5 Perogi & 8 bunny stew, the worst part was probably the continuous rollbacks during Phase Two where as soon as the world would load Silly boss goes SPINNNNN and regardless of armor, OR Walking Cane, your not prepared for that SPIN as soon as the Rollback is done loading.

My friend who was helping me gave up on phase Three and has to go to bed now. I have retreated back to my base to craft more Perogi & commander helms. I’ve played some of the hardest RogueLites you can name, that felt more fair then this. It NEEDS to be adjusted, otherwise: Only groups of players or highly skilled players (which me and my friend are not…) can possibly enjoy this.

[Dragonboooorn]

19 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

When you say multiplayer, how many people at a bare minimum does Klei expect to play? Because let me tell you I have spent ALL DAY TODAY trying to kill the Celestial Champion, I had a friend join my world as Wolfgang so we can achieve killing him even faster, and so far: We made it to phase 3, roll back sends us back to the start of phase 3 and holy hell… Roll back- Wait out loading screen, Boss in Face as soon as it’s done loading, Die. Rollback again.

It has NOT been fun and at this point WHO does Klei design this game for machiovists? Expert Kiters? This thing ignores any armor even though I stock piled commander helms ahead of the fight, I created about 5 Perogi & 8 bunny stew, the worst part was probably the continuous rollbacks during Phase Two where as soon as the world would load Silly boss goes SPINNNNN and regardless of armor, OR Walking Cane, your not prepared for that SPIN as soon as the Rollback is done loading.

My friend who was helping me gave up on phase Three and has to go to bed now. I have retreated back to my base to craft more Perogi & commander helms. I’ve played some of the hardest RogueLites you can name, that felt more fair then this. It NEEDS to be adjusted, otherwise: Only groups of players or highly skilled players (which me and my friend are not…) can possibly enjoy this.

Phase 2 guardian adjusts to your current speed, but after it actually starts spinning it locks into your matching speed allowing you to increase your speed by using cane or speed amulet. Its very easy to outrun this boss.

Phase 3 is a patience test - Alter plays like most passive scumbug you can think of, just use ranged weapon once it starts to stay near its sleeping crystals. 

 

Just dont rush your boss fight - be patient and collected. I have no idea why you think this game isnt balanced. I literally play Wilson on PC with no mods or friends, Its possible to solo any boss if you stay calm and have a strategy in mind. Wolfgang, Wigfrid, Maxwell and WX indeed makes any fight easier, but thats about it. You still able to solo any boss. These are "fighter" characters, no shi they make any fight easier.

[mima_]

7 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

When you say multiplayer, how many people at a bare minimum does Klei expect to play? Because let me tell you I have spent ALL DAY TODAY trying to kill the Celestial Champion, I had a friend join my world as Wolfgang so we can achieve killing him even faster, and so far: We made it to phase 3, roll back sends us back to the start of phase 3 and holy hell… Roll back- Wait out loading screen, Boss in Face as soon as it’s done loading, Die. Rollback again.

It has NOT been fun and at this point WHO does Klei design this game for machiovists? Expert Kiters? This thing ignores any armor even though I stock piled commander helms ahead of the fight, I created about 5 Perogi & 8 bunny stew, the worst part was probably the continuous rollbacks during Phase Two where as soon as the world would load Silly boss goes SPINNNNN and regardless of armor, OR Walking Cane, your not prepared for that SPIN as soon as the Rollback is done loading.

My friend who was helping me gave up on phase Three and has to go to bed now. I have retreated back to my base to craft more Perogi & commander helms. I’ve played some of the hardest RogueLites you can name, that felt more fair then this. It NEEDS to be adjusted, otherwise: Only groups of players or highly skilled players (which me and my friend are not…) can possibly enjoy this.

sounds like just about any other people experience with this boss, my friend also struggle he died and back to revive and the boss isnt even despawn so he can just back to base and prepare another batch of healing and armor. 

i tho u like the original DS where death is much more unforgiving. CC is suppose to be a big boss even u need to do whole bunch of stuff before u can summon it. this boss isnt hard when u know what to do BUT u are not suppose to face tank this boss, u meant to learn its attack. 

DS series is always have huge learning step, either u learn and die or learn from other people gameplay. dont compare to other roguelite cus its not it.

[IAmAFurrz]

19 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

I even think that combat with two players is worse than alone (except for AFW or Toadstool), because it becomes a mess.

rarely is this the case, can you tell me the cases that it'd be worse with 2 players? cuz ive been playing with a friend for the last 2k hours and its been just easier, very rare bosses have inconsistent aggro (nightmare werepig is eratic, CC phase 3 has few visual cues for who the laser is targetting, outside of that aggro usually is just last person that hit the enemy/closest player to enemy when it starts an attack)

13 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

I honestly don't think 27k HP is that bad... Like, yeah, it will usually take a whole game day to kill Dfly solo, so you'll need to have preparations for spending the night within the arena, but... I dunno, it feels fine to me? It passes by pretty quickly overall.

many think that health is awful, and if it got reduced down to 10k it'd be less drag. like genuinely if ppl remove the larvae gimmick (most do with wall methods) then what is it really? just a boring basic single target boss. it doesnt have an interesting gimmick, and the larvaes are just key and lock design due to how much health they have for most characters

i agree health does matter when making a boss since it does make them feel intimidating. but df is not really scary to fight when you just stock up on food and armor, no interesting dodging, no gimmick that changes up gameplay in an intuitive/interesting way. it really is just a super dragged out version of moosegoose

[RubLog6]

10 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

It has NOT been fun and at this point WHO does Klei design this game for machiovists? Expert Kiters? This thing ignores any armor even though I stock piled commander helms ahead of the fight, I created about 5 Perogi & 8 bunny stew, the worst part was probably the continuous rollbacks during Phase Two where as soon as the world would load Silly boss goes SPINNNNN and regardless of armor, OR Walking Cane, your not prepared for that SPIN as soon as the Rollback is done loading.

My friend who was helping me gave up on phase Three and has to go to bed now. I have retreated back to my base to craft more Perogi & commander helms. I’ve played some of the hardest RogueLites you can name, that felt more fair then this. It NEEDS to be adjusted, otherwise: Only groups of players or highly skilled players (which me and my friend are not…) can possibly enjoy this.

I'm more confused about the fact that you intend to return to a post rift boss fight with day 1 equipment when it clearly didnt work the first time round.