[Game Update] - 725977

[Mysterious box]

7 minutes ago, Creatorofswamps said:

I don't quite understand why people say they weren't heard. People asked for the shadow skill to look more appropriate than just being a random shadow, and Klei did that. They said they wanted to visually change the shadow skill, and they did that, and they also added additional abilities related to chess, even though they didn't mention it. If people wanted a completely new skill, it's a bit strange considering that Klei spent time refining it rather than completely redesigning it from scratch.

 

*I hope the translator did their job correctly*

It's mainly because people are looking at this in the sense that listening to them meant implementing their ideas exactly anything less than that to some was equivalent to not listening. Unfortunately this isn't something exclusive to this.

3 minutes ago, Ugur01 said:

As far as I recall, the number of people dissatisfied with the shadow hands wasn't that high. It feels like they changed it simply because they wanted to, not because of mass demand. We feel like our voices are being ignored because Shadow Affinity 2.0 was released with almost no changes, despite the fact that the majority of the community was unhappy with it.

The only adjustment they made was increasing the damage from an abysmal 10% to 18%. Many suggestions were shared to find a middle ground, yet we haven't seen a single change driven by that feedback. It was rushed to live while completely disregarding the community's input.

This isn't really true there were plenty of people who agreed it didn't fit it's just people who were upset with the change were more vocal. 

Also they improved how well they followed and even made skins more suited to the shadow alignment.

[Cheggf]

2 hours ago, Hi. said:

What happened to "listening to feedback"?

Most of the "feedback" was just "How come WX isn't as overpowered as this mod character I downloaded?".

[Ugur01]

11 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

This isn't really true there were plenty of people who agreed it didn't fit it's just people who were upset with the change were more vocal. 

Also they improved how well they followed and even made skins more suited to the shadow alignment.

I can't deny that those of us dissatisfied with the new direction of the Shadow side have been more vocal. People reacted strongly because it wasn't just a visual change; it involved massive stat nerfs and a shift from AoE damage buffs to a strictly single-target focus. Regarding the skins, while they don't quite hit the specific shadow aesthetic I was hoping for, they are still a significant improvement over the original designs.

[Baark0]

So ignoring the fact most feedback seems to be that people aren't happy with the shadow affinity, we still can't see the stats, equipment slots, or circuit slots of lunar affinity clones, despite this easily being one of the most asked for things.

My guess is klei doesn't really have the time to spend another few weeks on a beta that was meant to be finished 2 weeks ago, which I can't really argue with. Still a shame that my favourite character has pretty underwhelming affinities, and is likely going to remain that way for several years at the bare minimum. I still love the skill tree and WX is back to being my main character I play again, and I am grateful klei spent as much time working on them as they did.

Also, if anyone is thinking about working on a WX skill tree mod, feel free to shoot me a dm or ping me, as I'd love to lend a hand in the creation of it. I don't know how to mod but I can help test and provide feedback/ideas for the skill tree.

Edited yesterday at 12:19 AM by Baark0

[Ugur01]

1 hour ago, doritosdamafia said:

well if that's it, them see you all in the warly and maxwell beta

For me, it's Wanda. Actually, I’ll be participating in the betas for all the remaining skill trees, though I probably won't be providing as much feedback as I did for WX-78

[gaymime]

7 minutes ago, Baark0 said:

So ignoring the fact most feedback seems to be that people aren't happy with the shadow affinity, we still can't see the stats, equipment slots, or circuit slots of lunar affinity clones, despite this easily being one of the most asked for things.

mostly i wanted to stay out of this because a) i have barely played wx at all at this point and b) i am still going back to the two characters i always play now that beta is over BUT i really, really need to step in and correct one lil' thing;

klei has ALWAYS been against overt stat visibility. anyone who plays vanilla can tell you that klei doesn’t even like to let you know when the season is about to change over or how much health that pig over there has. it would be super weird of them to start doing it now.

Edited yesterday at 12:26 AM by gaymime

[Jussatoon]

12 minutes ago, Baark0 said:

So ignoring the fact most feedback seems to be that people aren't happy with the shadow affinity, we still can't see the stats, equipment slots, or circuit slots of lunar affinity clones, despite this easily being one of the most asked for things.

My guess is klei doesn't really have the time to spend another few weeks on a beta that was meant to be finished 2 weeks ago, which I can't really argue with. Still a shame that my favourite character has pretty underwhelming affinities, and is likely going to remain that way for several years at the bare minimum. I still love the skill tree and WX is back to being my main character I play again, and I am grateful klei spent as much time working on them as they did.

Also, if anyone is thinking about working on a WX skill tree mod, feel free to shoot me a dm or ping me, as I'd love to lend a hand in the creation of it. I don't know how to mod but I can help test and provide feedback/ideas for the skill tree.

I'd also like to stay in touch; even if my own ideas don't provide sufficient inspiration, it'd still be neat to be involved in the development one way or another. 

(I still feel like my empathy-module-based suggestion had potential, perhaps in another universe)

Edited yesterday at 12:33 AM by Jussatoon

[_mylilsunshine_]

wx got one of if not the best trees ever, even a delay to flesh (heh, nice one waltuh) things out, and the first thing i see is people complaining. i remember giving so many suggestions and feedback during the walter beta, maybe enough to make a whole new skill tree for him, yet not everything got incorporated and i even feel like he was shipped out still missing things.

it took me some genuine playthroughs, experimenting with a lot of things to finally come to the conclusion that the skill tree *is* good and enough and i can make it work, i just needed some time with it.

i imagine it is the same with wx and the playerbase. i hope klei doesn't take these complaints too hard.

i genuinely believe that one of the best things about gaming is that the (best/correct) answers are not always obvious and transparent. you, and other player, have to make it work with your ingenuity and creativity. you might want wx to be decked out with powerful skills, top tier QOL, and diverse options, but what's the fun in having the answers given to you?

Edited yesterday at 01:31 AM by _mylilsunshine_

[DinsdaleP]

1 hour ago, JazzyGames said:

I’m a bit surprised at the overwhelmingly negative response of some of these comments. Like, you may not like the changes but I think it’s a bit of a stretch to claim that they ignored player feedback considering the entire tree was delayed due to consideration of “thematic” concerns

Thing is, the player feedback really was overwhelmingly negative and for a good reason, the drones are mostly just horrible visual noise, instead of the subdued elegance of the original shadow affinity.

WX-78 always was the "loner" character, who didn't even tame beefalo most of the time, yet now BOTH affinities force you to run around with minions if you want to get the most out of them. Lunar with their gestalts is thematically pretty cool, I'll give it that, but this iteration of shadow affinity doesn't make any sense, neither from a gameplay, nor from a thematic perspective.

[Ugur01]

3 minutes ago, gaymime said:

mostly i wanted to stay out of this because a) i have barely played wx at all at this point and b) i am still going back to the two characters i always play now that beta is over BUT i really, really need to step in and correct one lil' thing;

klei has ALWAYS been against overt stat visibility. anyone who plays vanilla can tell you that klei doesn’t even like to let you know when the season is about to change over or how much health that pig over there has. it would be super weird of them to start doing it now.

I agree regarding the stats, but being able to see the plugged-in circuits would have been very useful. Unless you apply different skins to each, it’s easy to mix up three possessed chassis. I actually had a suggestion for this: it would work similarly to how you use a razor to peek inside a bundling wrap. You would be able to see the equipped circuits, but you wouldn't be able to change them. Unfortunately, I forgot to share this idea earlier.

[Grantybird]

I'm not sure if it's intended or not but would like some confirmation if anyone else can confirm.

In previous Beta branches a chassis with the Possesed Shadow Atrium would spawn Mimicreeps which would copy items that were able to be picked up actually used. While testing this on live servers this doesn't seem to be the case. I 100% understand that them being able to use the green gem items was way too strong, but completely removing the feature is a tad disappointing.

 

Let me know if I'm wrong in my testing just wanted to see if anyone else has encountered this

[-Variant]

3 hours ago, V2C said:

So that's how Penglets are made...

[Ugur01]

Until next time... See you all when the upcoming update drops during Steam Next Fest.

 

[ChSLerd]

The circuits trivialize a lot of aspects in the game: darkness, cold, heat, hunger, resource farming, speed... so I'm fine with the affinities being not overpowered. Lunar gives high dps output but with the downside of being a pain to maintain. Shadow less so but gives ultility. My only complaint would be the visual cluttering. Instead of having 4, makes the scan bot level up instead.

Edited yesterday at 02:04 AM by ChSLerd
typo

[NNOUS]

Bit of a PR nightmare this time to give options than preceded to ignore the feedback and do that instead. I bet if they release the whole deal at the first place won't be this much complains. 

Still, this is probably one of the most feature rich update for skill tree ever.

 

This does sounds like people up there want this to be done already cuz klei is busy for other projects tho hmmm

Edited yesterday at 02:15 AM by NNOUS

[Jussatoon]

10 minutes ago, NNOUS said:

This does sounds like people up there want this to be done already cuz klei is busy for other projects tho hmmm

That's fair, get it done with and move on, especially if that means we get closer to more news about Elsewhere. 

[NNOUS]

1 hour ago, _mylilsunshine_ said:

first thing i see is people complaining

Klei forum tradition at this point, complain is daily bread and butter

[AliceShiki]

Honestly, I feel like Shadow Affinity was delayed simply because Klei wasn't happy with it. I don't think some people complaining about it not being thematic was enough to cause the delay, Klei probably disliked their own implementation and decided to do something else, which was the Drones.

As for them not hearing feedback...? I mean... Biggest complaints I remember were the nerf from 25% to 20% (which is now 24%, which is basically the same number) and the fact that the vex effect disappeared too quickly if you tried kiting or something... Which was fixed.

So... That sounds like a pretty clear case of them hearing feedback. They just wanted to go with the drones and weren't seriously considering reverting the Shadow Affinity to its older implementation.

Not to mention they also implemented a 1-slot Gamma like a bunch of people asked and stuff~

Also... For anyone that feels like their suggestions weren't heard and whatever... Get it to your head. Players are good at finding problems, but terrible at finding solutions. Good devs are aware of that. They don't seek player feedback for specific suggestions, they seek player feedback to figure out the pain points that players are experiencing, so as to let them fix those pain points if they agree with the notion that they're problematic... And the fixing usually won't really follow player suggestions (though sometimes it may happen), because devs are waaaaaay better than players at finding solutions. It's their whole job and stuff, yanno?

So yeah, this is pretty standard. Feedback is heard, but devs mostly want to find out what is bad through the feedback. Suggestions are a pretty minor part of the process.

[Hi.]

3 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Most of the "feedback" was just "How come WX isn't as overpowered as this mod character I downloaded?".

Most of the feedback I saw was how the shadow affinity was so weak and bland especially since there isn't even planar mechanics and is (at max) a 24% damage increase with a personal wobot/worse duping. Not only that but a 24% damage increase that requires an atrium which is so lame and again, even the possesed atrium doesn't do anything planar wise. The only unique thing about it is the drone thing which is cool on paper but in execution really sucks because there are tons of ways to auto harvest things (BTW this skill tree ALREADY has a skill that lets you automaticaly harvest things) and the duping mechanic is pretty cool but requires the possesed atrium and by the time you get mimic items you don't need them.

 

So yeah people are rightfully upset. Why do people constantly feel the need to defend Klei even when they make pretty obvious mistakes? 

Edited yesterday at 03:22 AM by Hi.

[Evelo]

3 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Most of the "feedback" was just "How come WX isn't as overpowered as this mod character I downloaded?".

"It's a sandbox/single-player/non-competitve (choose one) game, don't nerf the player!"
As if balance doesn't matter at all to the health of a game. 

10 minutes ago, AliceShiki said:

Also... For anyone that feels like their suggestions weren't heard and whatever... Get it to your head. Players are good at finding problems, but terrible at finding solutions. Good devs are aware of that. They don't seek player feedback for specific suggestions, they seek player feedback to figure out the pain points that players are experiencing, so as to let them fix those pain points if they agree with the notion that they're problematic... And the fixing usually won't really follow player suggestions (though sometimes it may happen), because devs are waaaaaay better than players at finding solutions. It's their whole job and stuff, yanno?

Can I send you flowers and chocolates? Cause it is so nice to see someone be aligned with myself this way. Much love.

[Swish3rTwist3r]

Well. I'm pretty disappointed with the outcome of the shadow alignment skill. I would have liked WX to not have two different flavors of minions to choose from in the highest potency skill choice as I've never cared for things following me around in a game like this. Feels to me like it would have made sense to offer something truly different out of the shadow skill. Guess I'll find somebody else to play.

[Dr.Webber]

What happened to the parasite circuit?

[Picklesaurus]

I like how Wx's skill tree turned out. The only thing I feel missing is exploiterators interacting better with planar enemies. It would be nice if each exploiterator would give WX a small amount of on hit planar damage against enemies being scanned by them, like +2 planar damage per exploiterator , the total would be +8 planar damage and it may seem low but it would do well with spin circuit's faster attack rate.

Edited yesterday at 06:03 AM by Picklesaurus

[HowlVoid]

Literally so.many of you complained it wasnt thematic enough so they changed it.

I am so confused, this forum should be studied.

[Cheggf]

2 hours ago, Hi. said:

Most of the feedback I saw was how the shadow affinity was so weak and bland especially since there isn't even planar mechanics and is (at max) a 24% damage increase with a personal wobot/worse duping. Not only that but a 24% damage increase that requires an atrium which is so lame and again, even the possesed atrium doesn't do anything planar wise. The only unique thing about it is the drone thing which is cool on paper but in execution really sucks because there are tons of ways to auto harvest things (BTW this skill tree ALREADY has a skill that lets you automaticaly harvest things) and the duping mechanic is pretty cool but requires the possesed atrium and by the time you get mimic items you don't need them.

 

So yeah people are rightfully upset. Why do people constantly feel the need to defend Klei even when they make pretty obvious mistakes? 

Oh no. WX only has all of the things he already had like permanently ignoring light and temperature or moving fast, and also he has super high stats with percentage reductions/increases to related things like sanity gain/drain, and also his existing circuits are way stronger, and also he got a bunch of new circuits like an AoE attack, and also he can passively scout the entire map out, and also he can teleport around everywhere, and also he can teleport items, and also he has a bunch of small perks like reviving and charging faster, and also he has a cheese drone that can kill things safely, and also he can make a bunch of copies of himself, and also he can get a passive Lazy Forager, and also he can do a few other things, and also he gets the same damage bonus as Wigfrid.

Did you see that? The same damage bonus as Wigfrid. ONLY the same damage bonus as Wigfrid? Wow. Trash character. My mod character who has 10x movespeed, 8x damage, permanent night vision, and an immunity to all temperature is way stronger than this. How DARE Klei ONLY give me the SAME DAMAGE BONUS AS WIGFRID, the CHARACTER WHO IS EXPLICITLY DESIGNED TO BE FOR COMBAT. Wow. WX-78 may as well be removed from the game, because this is UNPLAYABLE. How about instead of a 24% damage bonus, it was a 24,000,000% damage bonus? And maybe instead of the Auto-Grabber being a Lazy Forager, it would auto-grab some Steam Gift Cards and Klei pays me $50 an hour for playing this HORRIBLE character?