Does anyone like krampus sack rng?

[Nikki Darks]

1 hour ago, HiImChris333 said:

I think it would be fair if it had a mechanic where if you dont get it, eventually it will be guaranteed. To explain myself better imagine you kill klaus 10 times, yet you still didnt get it, then the game keeps track and the 11th time you kill klaus the sack has  100% droprate. This way it wouldnt mess with the progression of the game but it also wouldnt delete the small chance of getting it early game, which i think is pretty neat. You could tweak the numbers to better suit progression, i said 11th time as an example but i think it would make a nice solution.

So a pity mechanic? A mechanic where you try to pull for something and if you do it a set amount of times it is a guaranteed pull? Where have I heard of this sort of thing before? Heh.

[AliceShiki]

34 minutes ago, Nikki Darks said:

So a pity mechanic? A mechanic where you try to pull for something and if you do it a set amount of times it is a guaranteed pull? Where have I heard of this sort of thing before? Heh.

Tbh, I feel like more non-gacha games should make use of Pity mechanics.

It can be really frustrating to keep on grinding for a 2% drop over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

If this drop was guaranteed to fall by the 50th attempt if you didn't get any until that point, it would feel much better to grind~

I remember feeling this basically every time I tried to grind a rare drop in an RPG. It can just get seriously frustrating after a while.

[Spicybullfrog]

3 hours ago, HiImChris333 said:

I think it would be fair if it had a mechanic where if you dont get it, eventually it will be guaranteed. To explain myself better imagine you kill klaus 10 times, yet you still didnt get it, then the game keeps track and the 11th time you kill klaus the sack has  100% droprate. This way it wouldnt mess with the progression of the game but it also wouldnt delete the small chance of getting it early game, which i think is pretty neat. You could tweak the numbers to better suit progression, i said 11th time as an example but i think it would make a nice solution.

there's already kind of a situation like that with moonstorms, if you get late enough into the game more and more krampii will spawn per wave and you can camp near the glommer statue during moonstorms for a guaranteed free krampii spawn each night. character swap wickerbottom farms exist, but even with just some boomerangs and a feather hat you can knock out ~3 waves of krampus a day for a very very good chance to get a sack over the summer.
i dont think a krampus sack for 700 days will ever become relevant for anybody but the absolute most dedicated players, maybe it could be attached to enraged klaus, assuming the enraged fight was made more fair? (well, now that i think about it, attaching a krampus sack drop from the enraged klaus will cause a large amount of players to create new strategies to kill and farm him, so making it more fair might not even be necessary)

Edited January 9 by Spicybullfrog

[goblinball]

17 minutes ago, Spicybullfrog said:

maybe it could be attached to enraged klaus, assuming the enraged fight was made more fair? (well, now that i think about it, attaching a krampus sack drop from the enraged klaus will cause a large amount of players to create new strategies to kill and farm him, so making it more fair might not even be necessary)

I’ve always been a fan of this idea but I’ve seen alot of pushback because “enraged Klaus is supposed to be a punishment”, when there’s nothing saying you can’t change that. The enraged fight would still be a massive pain and would result in instant death for 90% of players, this could just be a fun Easter egg for players that push through it.

Continuing with the terraria comparisons from earlier in the thread, daytime empress of light is meant to be a punishment for taking too long, and ppl love the terraprisma. Taking a piece of content that only exists to ruin players days and giving it a more fun reason to exist is a good idea imo

 

[Nikki Darks]

3 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

Tbh, I feel like more non-gacha games should make use of Pity mechanics.

It can be really frustrating to keep on grinding for a 2% drop over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

If this drop was guaranteed to fall by the 50th attempt if you didn't get any until that point, it would feel much better to grind~

I remember feeling this basically every time I tried to grind a rare drop in an RPG. It can just get seriously frustrating after a while.

I might be in the minority but I love things like Krampus Sack. The low drop rate makes it that much more exciting to me when it drops. 

However, I do think it'd be cool if enraged Klaus had a 100% drop chance for a Krampus sack.

[AliceShiki]

5 hours ago, Nikki Darks said:

I might be in the minority but I love things like Krampus Sack. The low drop rate makes it that much more exciting to me when it drops. 

However, I do think it'd be cool if enraged Klaus had a 100% drop chance for a Krampus sack.

I don't think it's a problem to create exciting moments with it dropping? I just think a pity system would also be nice to guarantee you get it eventually.

[Spicybullfrog]

3 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

I don't think it's a problem to create exciting moments with it dropping? I just think a pity system would also be nice to guarantee you get it eventually.

If a system like that was implemented, I imagine the way you would do it is that repeatedly killing krampii and klaus causes them to get angrier and angrier, setting traps and misfortune for you until it comes to a point where something will come for you that'll drop the sack. maybe the grue or something, lol 

[AliceShiki]

5 hours ago, Spicybullfrog said:

If a system like that was implemented, I imagine the way you would do it is that repeatedly killing krampii and klaus causes them to get angrier and angrier, setting traps and misfortune for you until it comes to a point where something will come for you that'll drop the sack. maybe the grue or something, lol 

I mean, pity with extra mechanical implementations could work too, but I was thinking of the simplest and most straightforward implementation of pity, where rare drops just get guaranteed after enough kills without the drop falling.

[Nikki Darks]

12 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

I don't think it's a problem to create exciting moments with it dropping? I just think a pity system would also be nice to guarantee you get it eventually.

I mean yeah, but IMO it would be best to just put it on Enraged Klaus as a guaranteed drop. Not like Enraged Klaus has any reason to exist, you never fight/interact with it, it's just there if you somehow managed to royally mess up and kill a deer.

Plus, I feel like it'd feel hella cool to get the sack as a drop from such a difficult boss.

[comonavi]

Enraged Klaus? You can just whittle him down to low health then enrage him, right? No one would ever fight him without doing that. The only challenge would be installing a healthbar mod, so console/vanilla players lose the opportunity. And of course, rolling back when someone kills him too early...

[AliceShiki]

Would be interesting if they created a particular condition where Klaus spawned already as Enraged Klaus, and then this special Enraged Klaus that is Enraged from the start of the battle would always drop the Sack~

[Dingle]

33 minutes ago, AliceShiki said:

Would be interesting if they created a particular condition where Klaus spawned already as Enraged Klaus, and then this special Enraged Klaus that is Enraged from the start of the battle would always drop the Sack~

Misery Klaus.

Miserly Klaus.

Would love this.

[Bumber64]

5 hours ago, comonavi said:

Enraged Klaus? You can just whittle him down to low health then enrage him, right? No one would ever fight him without doing that. The only challenge would be installing a healthbar mod, so console/vanilla players lose the opportunity. And of course, rolling back when someone kills him too early...

The removal of that exploit is as simple as resetting his health to full.

[00petar00]

The issue is that there aren't many RNG items you can obtain in DST so this stands as an outlier with its importance to players that really like having that inventory space. If we had more items like this I wouldn't have any issues with it but this sticks like a sore thumb. So unless we are going to get much more items that rely on RNG I would hope that krampus sack becomes easier to obtain.

[Spicybullfrog]

7 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

The issue is that there aren't many RNG items you can obtain in DST so this stands as an outlier with its importance to players that really like having that inventory space. If we had more items like this I wouldn't have any issues with it but this sticks like a sore thumb. So unless we are going to get much more items that rely on RNG I would hope that krampus sack becomes easier to obtain.

what about glowlamps from either toadstool or klaus' loot pool? ive set speedrunners reset if they don't get a lazy explorer from ancient guardian, and everything around sunken chests is very rng dependant (shoutout to night berries!)

[Maxil20]

I personally haven’t really had many gripes with the krampus sack. I’ve had a lot of iffy RNG experiences to get it (I remember a case of killing over 250 to get one…), but I’ve inevitably gotten it if I’m looking for it.

I think part of what helps is you, realistically, only need one krampus sack per world/character. While most items are not nearly as rare, there is usually an element of going back to farm said drop over and over again to maintain stocks of it. By comparison, the moment you get a krampus sack you effectively gain a permanent upgrade for the rest of your playtime on the world.

I also don’t think krampus is that awful to summon once you reach 100+ days in to roll for 3-4 every time. I remember I used to consistently sweep the deciduous to farm catcoons and kill krampus while farming meat that way, and the classic feather hat/literally any ranged weapon ever is still a consistent method you can use if you wanna relax for a bit (Walter/gloomerang in particular is excellent for this, as you spend very little downtime hitting the birds and you can move away from base when krampus starts to shriek). I get why some people would be bothered by Wicker being by far and beyond the best option, though I’m personally not super bothered by it and it’s a lot more doable in a multiplayer setting where several players want the sack.

I wouldn’t be opposed to the idea of more sidegrades of the sack, though. I still think heavily of Hamlet’s Vortex Cloak, where it doubled as a better backpack with 10 slots with a shield to defend you from non shadow creature attacks. Given that a lot of people run backpacks, it would be fun if there was more niches in that category.

Edited January 11 by Maxil20

[Nikki Darks]

9 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

The issue is that there aren't many RNG items you can obtain in DST so this stands as an outlier with its importance to players that really like having that inventory space. If we had more items like this I wouldn't have any issues with it but this sticks like a sore thumb. So unless we are going to get much more items that rely on RNG I would hope that krampus sack becomes easier to obtain.

What game are you playing for you to say "there aren't many rng items you can obtain".

Items in this game have drop rates, not everything is a guaranteed drop. Even something as basic as spiders have drop rates.

[AliceShiki]

2 hours ago, Nikki Darks said:

What game are you playing for you to say "there aren't many rng items you can obtain".

Items in this game have drop rates, not everything is a guaranteed drop. Even something as basic as spiders have drop rates.

I think Petar meant stuff whose RNG is actually meaningful to whether or not players get the items they want.

Like, other than Krampus Sack, which other items does the RNG actually impact you on?

The things that come to mind are like... Beefalo horns if you have 3+ players on the server and got small Beefalo herds, as you might end up not having enough Beefalos to give Beefalo Hats for everyone on the first Winter.

Walrus Tusk for Walking Canes, but like... The real RNG is more on getting the triple Mactusk Camp than actually getting the Walrus Tusks, I'd say.

And like... Volt Goat Horns in case you don't wanna make a farm for them? Though you don't exactly need them for anyone other than Wigfrid if you don't wanna make Volt Goat Chaud Froid or Weather Pains. since Morningstars aren't particularly desirable.

So uhn... Yeah, not many cases where the RNG is that impactful, I'd say? Unless I'm forgetting something~

Granted, there are stuff like Sunken Chests and the Ancient Chest, but I think getting bad RNG in those isn't particularly impactful on an average run?

[goblinball]

13 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

The issue is that there aren't many RNG items you can obtain in DST so this stands as an outlier with its importance to players that really like having that inventory space. If we had more items like this I wouldn't have any issues with it but this sticks like a sore thumb. So unless we are going to get much more items that rely on RNG I would hope that krampus sack becomes easier to obtain.

Yeah I agree. Krampus sack (and to a lesser extent, tam o shanters) almost feel outdated with how they’re so rng-based when almost every other piece of loot is a guaranteed drop or just something you craft. It’s really weird and I feel like there’s probably a good reason why more drops aren’t tied to rng.

 

4 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

I get why some people would be bothered by Wicker being by far and beyond the best option, though I’m personally not super bothered by it and it’s a lot more doable in a multiplayer setting where several players want the sack.

Are ppl bothered by this? I think wickerbottom krampus farms are really cool. I’ve helped set up a few in past worlds and they’re fun to set up and it feels rewarding exploiting krampus and wickerbottom mechanics like this and taking them to their extremes. I love creative farms like this!

 

4 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

I wouldn’t be opposed to the idea of more sidegrades of the sack, though. I still think heavily of Hamlet’s Vortex Cloak, where it doubled as a better backpack with 10 slots with a shield to defend you from non shadow creature attacks. Given that a lot of people run backpacks, it would be fun if there was more niches in that category.

This!! I’m shocked we haven’t gotten more backpack variants, especially with how many other tools have recently gotten post rifts upgrades. I would love some creative new backpacks with their own utility, even if it means sacrificing some of krampus sack’s extra inventory slots.

[00petar00]

14 hours ago, Spicybullfrog said:

what about glowlamps from either toadstool or klaus' loot pool? ive set speedrunners reset if they don't get a lazy explorer from ancient guardian, and everything around sunken chests is very rng dependant (shoutout to night berries!)

That's not something you really benefit from early on, either glowcap or mushlight can work If you only need 1-2. I have also had issues obtaining mushlight bp but it wasn't that big of a deal (it was still annoying), lazy explorer shouldn't be expected at all and speedrunners are paying a different game from us since their goal is always to cut time and it makes sense to reset when they don't get something that cuts down time.

12 hours ago, Nikki Darks said:

What game are you playing for you to say "there aren't many rng items you can obtain".

Items in this game have drop rates, not everything is a guaranteed drop. Even something as basic as spiders have drop rates.

Most of the items that you mentioned and while it is true that they are rng drops, it isn't even close to importance of krampus sack and we don't have any items that match it.

8 hours ago, goblinball said:

Yeah I agree. Krampus sack (and to a lesser extent, tam o shanters) almost feel outdated with how they’re so rng-based when almost every other piece of loot is a guaranteed drop or just something you craft. It’s really weird and I feel like there’s probably a good reason why more drops aren’t tied to rng.

I wouldn't mind it If the game was structured around rng drops and we had much more of them but this just feels out of place, tam o shanter and tusk drop rate is just messy and is causing problems when you play with more players and have no luck because everyone wants them.

 

Edited January 12 by 00petar00

[Cheggf]

The entire point of the item is that it's really rare. It's an extremely low chance from killing Krampus or a decently low chance from the very slow to respawn Krampus. It's a fun little surprise when you get it, not something you're supposed to easily acquire, or even acquire on purpose. All the ways you can go out of your way to acquire the item are really weird.

Given the choice between removing the Krampus Sack from the game entirely or making it available normally without being lucky, removing it entirely would be better. If it was just a normal item it would be the most boring item in the game. It's just a backpack but with more slots. It's just a piggyback with more slots and no slowdown. It's making multiple other items completely irrelevant, which is terrible design for something you can consistently acquire. The only reason the item isn't terribly boring right now is because it's a fun surprise to get an imbalanced item, simply making an imbalanced item is boring. 

[Nikki Darks]

Honestly, this whole reply section could be summed up with "If it ain't broke don't fix it". 

It being a % chance drop is fine, no need to change what's fine.

It's a novelty item at best, inventory is not much of an impactful thing in the game, mostly convenience. Unlike goat horns, whoever gave them that low drop chance needs to be fired.

[hyoton123]

I wouldnt say it makes my game great, but it pokes my pleasure centers to get it. I wouldnt say no to letting me turn in 5 klaus sketches to the trader to get it, though.