Celestial Scion fight is hot garbage

[hoxi]

11 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

They should probably add a new tag for being temporarily unhittable. A new target can be suggested, but don't drop aggro otherwise. (IDK the implications of maintaining a target you can't actually attack.)

The old tags should be considered semi-permanent states.

There'd be multiple ways to go about it to be fair, "noattack" making things count as invalid targets and dropping aggro was always a bit questionable, when "notarget" implies that, meaning "noattack" implies they shouldn't be able to be attacked, not be unable to be targeted.

They could make it so "noattack" doesn't drop aggro and just prevents from being hit, and this would solve many cases of telepoofing or similar dropping aggro despite being in that state for a few frames. But they'd also have to go over all cases of that to ensure to add "notarget" when it's intended to drop or prevent aggro.

But if they intend to keep things as is, they'll need to make use of the fix they made for Woby's blink dash to all cases where aggro isn't intended to drop from short actions like that.

[Bumber64]

2 hours ago, hoxi said:

There'd be multiple ways to go about it to be fair, "noattack" making things count as invalid targets and dropping aggro was always a bit questionable, when "notarget" implies that, meaning "noattack" implies they shouldn't be able to be attacked, not be unable to be targeted.

Does one or both of these protect from AoE damage? I forget.

[kroban]

Look man imma be honest here, this reads like skill issue, and don't get me wrong, im on the same boat, I struggled a lot on this boss too. Hell, I still struggle sometimes lol

Yes, if you are a pixel off Scion will f*ck you up by covering the entire area with that "web", but you have 2 options for this:

- Lock in, practice 200 times more till you learn the perfect timing for dodging it by just walking behind it.

- Craft a couple lazy explorers, and quickly tp AFTER Scion throws the web. Yes, you will take some damage this way, but you won't have to worry about the timing of the attack animation itself, but rather the tp after it resolved.

[Edible Coal]

Just now, kroban said:

Look man imma be honest here, this reads like skill issue, and don't get me wrong, im on the same boat, I struggled a lot on this boss too. Hell, I still struggle sometimes lol

Yes, if you are a pixel off Scion will f*ck you up by covering the entire area with that "web", but you have 2 options for this:

- Lock in, practice 200 times more till you learn the perfect timing for dodging it by just walking behind it.

- Craft a couple lazy explorers, and quickly tp AFTER Scion throws the web. Yes, you will take some damage this way, but you won't have to worry about the timing of the attack animation itself, but rather the tp after it resolved.

use bone armorrrrr

[cybers2001]

6 minutes ago, kroban said:

Lock in, practice 200 times more till you learn the perfect timing for dodging it by just walking behind it.

Maybe a hot take, but Don't Starve never used to have bosses that required dying 200 times to solve. Is this what it's become, Dark Souls Together?

[SpookyXy]

22 hours ago, cybers2001 said:

Maybe a hot take, but Don't Starve never used to have bosses that required dying 200 times to solve. Is this what it's become, Dark Souls Together?

But you dont have to do that, he literally included in his post another way to beat the boss without having to do that. 

[cropo]

Cybers seems to be making sense though. Having to deal with Tethering issues on enemies is something I never would have expected to see being defended. Tethering is the absolute worst limitation of an enemy in a video game and really shows how flawed enemy placement can be when they can just magically decide the fight is over and heal themselves to full.

[Mike23Ua]

On 7/27/2025 at 11:37 PM, cybers2001 said:

Maybe a hot take, but Don't Starve never used to have bosses that required dying 200 times to solve. Is this what it's become, Dark Souls Together?

Honestly I think it’s a lack of Klei giving the player enough indicators of WTH is about to happen that it feels like a total screw job when you went into the fight unprepared for what you had no way (unless you studied people doing it on YouTube) to know how to handle.

I can firmly say this because I actually play a lot of RogueLite/Like Games where it’s vital to the player to know what type of enemy is attacking, and to also have a visible on screen hud cue of an attack that is about to happen.

Examples would be: 33 Immortals & Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Splintered Fate.

Both of these games have to accurately convey information to the player of what is attacking, and where those attacks are about to land.

We wouldn’t have to die 200 times practicing a boss (aka forced to play single player and roll the server back with each failure) if the fights felt more “fair”

Yes Klei: this absolutely means if your going to start throwing enemies and bosses into your game left and right like 33 Immortals or TMNT: Splintered Fate that Health Bars and accurate on screen HuD information to give the player a fighting chance is vital to that process.

[Edible Coal]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Honestly I think it’s a lack of Klei giving the player enough indicators of WTH is about to happen that it feels like a total screw job when you went into the fight unprepared for what you had no way (unless you studied people doing it on YouTube) to know how to handle.

I can firmly say this because I actually play a lot of RogueLite/Like Games where it’s vital to the player to know what type of enemy is attacking, and to also have a visible on screen hud cue of an attack that is about to happen.

Examples would be: 33 Immortals & Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Splintered Fate.

Both of these games have to accurately convey information to the player of what is attacking, and where those attacks are about to land.

We wouldn’t have to die 200 times practicing a boss (aka forced to play single player and roll the server back with each failure) if the fights felt more “fair”

Yes Klei: this absolutely means if your going to start throwing enemies and bosses into your game left and right like 33 Immortals or TMNT: Splintered Fate that Health Bars and accurate on screen HuD information to give the player a fighting chance is vital to that process.

true, warbot can be defeat if u know absolutly nothing about it if u have a team ,but scion? oof 

[cybers2001]

9 hours ago, Edible Coal said:

true, warbot can be defeat if u know absolutly nothing about it if u have a team ,but scion? oof 

It's just so bad that it takes 100+ days to get to a point where you can first experience an enemy that perma crowd-controls an area.

I think back about what I liked most about DS, and it's the gratification of encountering and solving obstacles in a hardcore world. I would rather the game be more like that, where as long as you are prepared and not careless, you shouldn't die. The problem is DST trivialized death by necessity, since it was hard to properly introduce hardcore into a multiplayer game. But because its trivialized, it's also normalized for players to just die... over and over again. Anybody these days who still try to maintain a hardcore-like experience in their games typically spam the new boss in a test world until they've solved it first.

But it's far less satisfying playing that way.

Edited July 29, 2025 by cybers2001

[Edible Coal]

16 hours ago, cybers2001 said:

It's just so bad that it takes 100+ days to get to a point where you can first experience an enemy that perma crowd-controls an area.

I think back about what I liked most about DS, and it's the gratification of encountering and solving obstacles in a hardcore world. I would rather the game be more like that, where as long as you are prepared and not careless, you shouldn't die. The problem is DST trivialized death by necessity, since it was hard to properly introduce hardcore into a multiplayer game. But because its trivialized, it's also normalized for players to just die... over and over again. Anybody these days who still try to maintain a hardcore-like experience in their games typically spam the new boss in a test world until they've solved it first.

But it's far less satisfying playing that way.

maybe, but i found it pretty cool, one slip up and you have to restart the fight, you are on a boss timer that dont exsist on other boss, something that you cant recover with stacking resources ( for most character ). if they remove the floor fissures, they would have to redesign the whole boss because thats its main gimmick

[Captain_Rage]

On 7/28/2025 at 6:37 AM, cybers2001 said:

Maybe a hot take, but Don't Starve never used to have bosses that required dying 200 times to solve. Is this what it's become, Dark Souls Together?

On this one I vehemently agree. Without looking up information outside the game this boss would take an absurd amount of tedious trial and error. It's extremely boring and anti-climactic, if anything, especially for the final boss of a questline. You'd have to wear the boss down quite a bit simply to realize that it will keep blasting you with rockets until your character dies every single time without being able to do anything unless you follow very specific steps which you have no way of guessing beforehand or react to once the blasting starts. You have to make an assumption, get wiped and start over again while simply wasting resources. This is inherently bad design.

[grem6]

1 hour ago, Captain_Rage said:

On this one I vehemently agree. Without looking up information outside the game this boss would take an absurd amount of tedious trial and error. It's extremely boring and anti-climactic, if anything, especially for the final boss of a questline. You'd have to wear the boss down quite a bit simply to realize that it will keep blasting you with rockets until your character dies every single time without being able to do anything unless you follow very specific steps which you have no way of guessing beforehand or react to once the blasting starts. You have to make an assumption, get wiped and start over again while simply wasting resources. This is inherently bad design.

To be fair they added a scrapbook entry for the missiles, which explains their gimmick and tells you to have a target warmer than you to distract them, if Thermalock Missile death message wasn't clear enough. Plus they made it so it stops endlessly summoning missiles if you get far enough during the summons that require to take 10% of it's hp off normally, making it so you only need to distract the missiles that come in single batches after 25% hp.

I also wouldn't really call the steps very specific, just burn any thing, or make thermals, or place stars, or freeze yourself, or cool yourself down slightly and get followers (e.g. pigs) that would get hit by missiles instead, or summon willow's cheaper star spell, or run away, or have the winona generators take the shots by coincidence (they're considered warmer than the environment if fueled).

Not to mention that during winter and summer you're likely to get to know the gimmick by accident, due to missiles destroying whatever you used to heat up during winter or a wildfire starting and distracting missiles.

Edit: forgot to mention, you also can quite easily tank the missiles. You only take 3.75 damage from each missile if using marble armor/night armor + brightshade helm/void cowl. You also can use bone armor for the 1st batch of a summon.

On 7/27/2025 at 11:11 PM, cybers2001 said:

I'd rather the Warbot pieces flew towards the center of the arena so it would result in a more consistent setup for the Scion battle.

Imo it's more fun to have to control warbot position yourself, given that you also get an indication for it going low hp (single batches of missiles only start after 25%), which you could use to know when you should move it closer to center.

Edited July 30, 2025 by grem6

[Hungry French]

4000 hp and the boss is the peak

[hoxi]

On 7/27/2025 at 8:21 PM, Bumber64 said:

Does one or both of these protect from AoE damage? I forget.

I don't know if it's fully consistent for a lot of other attacks as it'd be a lot to go through, but against generic area attacks (basically a circle around the entity), either tag works to be protected from them.

[Edible Coal]

7 hours ago, Hungry French said:

4000 hp and the boss is the peak

thats a tree guard lmao

[Waywarbler]

8 hours ago, Hungry French said:

4000 hp and the boss is the peak

Why do you believe the Celestial Scion would be improved by reducing its health to 1/4th??

It's already fairly fragile compared to stuff like Dragonfly and Bee Queen, for good reason. It's a fight you want to end as quickly as possible because of how punishing it is.

[Hungry French]

9 hours ago, Edible Coal said:

это дерево охраняет ржунимагу

Tree Guard is 2500  

[Edible Coal]

38 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

Tree Guard is 2500  

tall ones are 3750 

[Hungry French]

44 minutes ago, Edible Coal said:

tall ones are 3750 

3750 hp tree guard ≠  4000 celestial scion. 
Despite hp, you will take 2 times longer to kill Scion than Tree Guard.

46 minutes ago, Edible Coal said:

tall ones are 3750 

To be precise, this is 2500*1.5 for multuplayer 

9 hours ago, Waywarbler said:

Why do you believe the Celestial Scion would be improved by reducing its health to 1/4th??

It's already fairly fragile compared to stuff like Dragonfly and Bee Queen, for good reason. It's a fight you want to end as quickly as possible because of how punishing it is.

The reason for this is that after A New Reign, Klei for some reason stopped wanting to give bosses 10 times more hp than they should have in multiplayer. 
Which is why all the new multiphase bosses feel disgusting in large teams.
If there were a vision of hp bosses like in New Reign, then we would have a Celestial Revenant with all 40,000 hp, and other bosses would have a huge x multiplier.

[Hungry French]

On 7/11/2025 at 10:10 AM, RexySeven said:

Skill issue is dying to a boss, specifically created to be challenging, sprinting to forums and creating ragebait rant post about it instead of trying to learn how to fight it.

Teammates issue.  Klei create bosses so that they can be fun to kill as a team, and not so that on their forums all sorts of "cool" solo players would call others that they are low skill, etc.

The boss would be difficult if it was difficult for EVERYONE, and not for poor solo players. Not to mention Wilsons, Wes, and other weak characters without unbalanced reworks and unbalanced skill trees.

If that's hard for you to understand, then this is mind issue bro. Although I don't blame you for that. One should not condemn the deplorable situation of another person.

Edited July 31, 2025 by Hungry French

[Hungry French]

12 hours ago, Waywarbler said:

Почему вы считаете, что Небесного отпрыска можно улучшить, снизив его здоровье до 1/4??

Он и так довольно хрупкий по сравнению с такими персонажами, как Стрекоза и Королева Пчёл, и на то есть веские причины. Этот бой хочется закончить как можно быстрее из-за его жестокости.

Because your arena will cease to be a minefield, even if you dodge competently.

[Wawchik]

On 7/30/2025 at 9:08 PM, Hungry French said:

4000 hp and the boss is the peak

You can't be serious... 

9 hours ago, Hungry French said:

Teammates issue.  Klei create bosses so that they can be fun to kill as a team, and not so that on their forums all sorts of "cool" solo players would call others that they are low skill, etc.

The boss would be difficult if it was difficult for EVERYONE, and not for poor solo players. Not to mention Wilsons, Wes, and other weak characters without unbalanced reworks and unbalanced skill trees.

If that's hard for you to understand, then this is mind issue bro. Although I don't blame you for that. One should not condemn the deplorable situation of another person.

But Scion IS hard even for a big group of players, arguably harder because the field attack is harder to manage 

[Hungry French]

12 minutes ago, Wawchik said:

Ты не можешь говорить серьёзно...

Но Scion — сложная игра даже для большой группы игроков, возможно, ещё сложнее, потому что в ней труднее управлять атакой с поля

This is not a bad value for 1.30 minutes of combat for wilson. The boss has 3 attacks in the arsenal, do not forget. 
8000 would be a good value too. 
16000 is just a dull sponge to beat.

[Wawchik]

1 minute ago, Hungry French said:

This is not a bad value for 1.30 minutes of combat for wilson. The boss has 3 attacks in the arsenal, do not forget. 
8000 would be a good value too. 
16000 is just a dull sponge to beat.

1.3 minutes for end of the storyline boss? 3 minutes? You do have a point, that some bosses have just too much health for a solo player to reasonably deal with, but when you start suggesting stuff your argument falls apart due to how laughably low hp you want bosses to have