Celestial Scion fight is hot garbage

[Waywarbler]

16 hours ago, cropo said:

Someone please tell me if they changed or buffed the boss to act differently than in the video, because from what I saw in the footage this was a "1-2, mayyyybe 3 attempts" boss.

They've since lowered the boss's health to 16,000, and changed its attack period from 4 to 3, which I think is effectively a 25% attack rate increase?

They also made it so, at ~10,000 health, the Scion will try to dash to the center of the arena before performing the slam, causing you to lose a lot of ground each time it happens, unless you can keep redirecting its slams into already lost ground.

Some people in the comments of that video said this boss was a bit of a letdown, but I think the changes since then have actually made it a bit stressful?

[JazzyGames]

On 7/14/2025 at 8:42 PM, Waywarbler said:

Some people in the comments of that video said this boss was a bit of a letdown, but I think the changes since then have actually made it a bit stressful?

I did feel like it was a letdown in its current state, especially when they removed the fly-to-center behavior completely. I’m glad they brought it back and made the fight tougher and more fast paced with the attack rate increase, it seems to me in a very good state right now.

[cybers2001]

Doing this fight as Winona is so rage inducing. If I want to leverage my cataputs, I need to set them up just outside the barrier and keep Warbot along that edge of the island. Except then the parts end up right at the barrier edge and become difficult to use, or impossible if the scion keeps deaggroing whenever I run over to a part for protection.

It was so bad I went and installed the epic healthbar mod, then beat it on my second try 

Edited July 25, 2025 by cybers2001

[Edible Coal]

4 hours ago, cybers2001 said:

Doing this fight as Winona is so rage inducing. If I want to leverage my cataputs, I need to set them up just outside the barrier and keep Warbot along that edge of the island. Except then the parts end up right at the barrier edge and become difficult to use, or impossible if the scion keeps deaggroing whenever I run over to a part for protection.

It was so bad I went and installed the epic healthbar mod, then beat it on my second try 

epic health mod too op

[cybers2001]

3 hours ago, Edible Coal said:

epic health mod too op

True story, though

[Edible Coal]

57 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

True story, though

this just proves that a boss health meter helps player to measure fights better and take better choices

[Radicaljoe]

1 hour ago, Edible Coal said:

this just proves that a boss health meter helps player to measure fights better and take better choices

Certainly easier than keeping track of the numbers in your head yeah? 

[SilverSpoon]

2 hours ago, Edible Coal said:

this just proves that a boss health meter helps player to measure fights better and take better choices

No. Already max Health is written in the scrapbook. Just use math.

[Edible Coal]

10 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

No. Already max Health is written in the scrapbook. Just use math.

yes sure, im going to calculate 2 player damage and do planar math while keeping track of bright shade vine damage that spawn in 20% chance while dodging a boss !

Edited July 25, 2025 by Edible Coal

[Bumber64]

Ignoring the fact that the issue was deaggroing in the middle of the fight, which a healthbar doesn't prevent.

Shouldn't need a mod to tell you that it's happening, because it shouldn't be happening.

[Edible Coal]

Just now, Bumber64 said:

Ignoring the fact that the issue was deaggroing in the middle of the fight, which a healthbar doesn't prevent.

Shouldn't need a mod to tell you that it's happening, because it shouldn't be happening.

tbh i have never seen it happen before, how does that even happen

[Bumber64]

11 minutes ago, Edible Coal said:

tbh i have never seen it happen before, how does that even happen

IDK. Someone mentioned it was happening to someone on a stream, and they gave up because they thought they were just bad at the fight.

[Capybara007]

if you mean it will randomly dash to the center, thats a feature, not it deaggroing

[Hungry French]

On 10.07.2025 at 18:24, rageoler1107 said:

Бой с Небесным отпрыском — полный отстой, и его нужно ослабить. Атака «Фунт», если вы находитесь в пикселе от цели, покроет всю арену минным полем и убьёт вас. Поле также замедляет вас, из-за чего вам будет сложнее уклониться от «Фунта», и вероятность того, что отпрыск покроет всё поле, ещё выше. Это нужно ослабить

Try not to kill him alone.

[cybers2001]

1 hour ago, Capybara007 said:

if you mean it will randomly dash to the center, thats a feature, not it deaggroing

No, as in if the distance between you and the scion is more than 2/3 the span of the arena, it will completely deaggro, becoming neutral, removing the corrupted flooring, and resetting its health back to max. The health bar mod quip was a bit tongue-in-cheek, but my point is not taking extra steps to manipulate the warbot before it dies can result in a significantly harder scion fight. And one where the difficulty becomes locked as there's no way to reset the position of the parts outside of rolling back.

One change that could help create a more consistent experience would be if one or two of the warbot pieces would be forced to fly closer to the middle.

Edited July 25, 2025 by cybers2001

[Capybara007]

48 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

No, as in if the distance between you and the scion is more than 2/3 the span of the arena, it will completely deaggro, becoming neutral, removing the corrupted flooring, and resetting its health back to max. The health bar mod quip was a bit tongue-in-cheek, but my point is not taking extra steps to manipulate the warbot before it dies can result in a significantly harder scion fight. And one where the difficulty becomes locked as there's no way to reset the position of the parts outside of rolling back.

One change that could help create a more consistent experience would be if one or two of the warbot pieces would be forced to fly closer to the middle.

Yes i understand now, ive seen it happen and it sucks

[Edible Coal]

9 hours ago, cybers2001 said:

No, as in if the distance between you and the scion is more than 2/3 the span of the arena, it will completely deaggro, becoming neutral, removing the corrupted flooring, and resetting its health back to max. The health bar mod quip was a bit tongue-in-cheek, but my point is not taking extra steps to manipulate the warbot before it dies can result in a significantly harder scion fight. And one where the difficulty becomes locked as there's no way to reset the position of the parts outside of rolling back.

One change that could help create a more consistent experience would be if one or two of the warbot pieces would be forced to fly closer to the middle.

why would u ever be that far

[Waywarbler]

6 minutes ago, Edible Coal said:

why would u ever be that far

Imagine you've lured the Scion quite far away from the legs and then it starts doing the supernova, forcing you to run or teleport all the way over to the legs to hide. Now you and the Scion are on opposite ends of the arena, and you need to hurry back before it deaggros long enough to reset back to full health.

[Edible Coal]

5 minutes ago, Waywarbler said:

Imagine you've lured the Scion quite far away from the legs and then it starts doing the supernova, forcing you to run or teleport all the way over to the legs to hide. Now you and the Scion are on opposite ends of the arena, and you need to hurry back before it deaggros long enough to reset back to full health.

just....teleport back then

[cybers2001]

1 hour ago, Edible Coal said:

just....teleport back then

I'm not sure what you mean by this. It basically deaggros as soon as it finishes its supernova attack, so unless you're teleporting back into the nova, you're going to reset the fight.

As I've said, it will deaggro at about 2/3 the arena length away. But if the warbot pieces are all on one side of the arena, that leaves 1/3 of the arena that is essentially unusable.

Edited July 26, 2025 by cybers2001

[Bumber64]

9 hours ago, Edible Coal said:

why would u ever be that far

Better question: Why would it ever reset while you're still in the area, considering you're trapped inside to begin with?

[Edible Coal]

1 minute ago, Bumber64 said:

Better question: Why would it ever reset while you're still in the area, considering you're trapped inside to begin with?

idk man, go ask klei

[hoxi]

19 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

Better question: Why would it ever reset while you're still in the area, considering you're trapped inside to begin with?

I think the issue is the usual that can happen with being in a teleporting or unhittable state (more specifically, using "notarget" or "noattack" tags, or being invisible), and the combat component validates the current target (from ChaseAndAttack behavior, or from KeepTarget functionality in combat component) and detects any of these, and immediately drops aggro.

Because aside from that? From what I checked, if the Celestion Scion is in the arena and the barrier is up (which is normally how it works), distance is irrelevant for dropping aggro against things that are inside the arena, but it is relevant for finding a target when without one, or for switching targets. And for some reason the range is.. not that big..

They could probably solve the issue by massively increasing this range, since while inside the arena, the Scion should just be able to find players inside it (if the barrier is active, otherwise, keep the even shorter range it has when the fight had reset and the barrier is down). Or at the very least, ensure the Scion can find a target inside the arena if the fight is ongoing. But further below I'll explain a more ideal fix (both this and that one could be implemented).

 

Also, something very important to note: there's a 10 second delay after fully dropping aggro and having no target, before the fight actually resets. It's not instant.

 

Given all this, and the duration of the supernova attack, this is what might be happening:

• Celestial Scion is about to do a supernova attack.
• Player telepoofs (or similar) to get away.
• Celestial Scion happens to update targeting and detects the player is not a valid target due to "notarget", "noattack", or being invisible, or so. So it drops aggro.
• 10-second timer starts.
• Player is far away and outside of the range to properly aggro, even if detected that they're in the active arena.
• Supernova ends and the timer reaches 0 around the end of the attack or after, and the fight resets.

 

Ideally, besides increasing the range there, we need the fix that shadow Woby's blink dash received (or something similar), to apply to things like telepoofing and any similar quick actions that make the player untouchable and/or untargetable for just a few frames (and maybe not just for players). Aggro shouldn't be dropped in these cases, it leads to issues like this.

Just setting the player to be invincible would lead to still taking hits that can apply effects and damage armor, so that wouldn't be ideal, so the current way it works should be kept, but preventing aggro loss if things are perfectly timed would help a lot for this fight and many others (I've seen telepoofing while fighting Fuelweaver occasionally resulting in dropped aggro too, so, yeah..).

 

EDIT: oh also, yes, the supernova attack has a range limit of 40, which might not cover the entire arena (you'd think it'd be big enough to always be able to affect the entire arena). Do note, it can't affect things outside of the arena regardless of range, and this range has nothing to do with deaggroing.

Also, if the Scion is spawned with commands or somehow forced out of the arena (or somehow is inside an inactive arena), the range limit is 24 instead (yes, Klei accounted with a bunch of the fight's mechanics to have some different rules for the edge case of people spawning the Scion by other means).

Edited July 27, 2025 by hoxi
Added info bit about supernova range

[Bumber64]

3 hours ago, hoxi said:

Just setting the player to be invincible would lead to still taking hits that can apply effects and damage armor, so that wouldn't be ideal, so the current way it works should be kept, but preventing aggro loss if things are perfectly timed would help a lot for this fight and many others (I've seen telepoofing while fighting Fuelweaver occasionally resulting in dropped aggro too, so, yeah..).

They should probably add a new tag for being temporarily unhittable. A new target can be suggested, but don't drop aggro otherwise. (IDK the implications of maintaining a target you can't actually attack.)

The old tags should be considered semi-permanent states.

[cybers2001]

I'd rather the Warbot pieces flew towards the center of the arena so it would result in a more consistent setup for the Scion battle.