Celestial Scion fight is hot garbage

[Hungry French]

20 hours ago, Wawchik said:

1.3 minutes for end of the storyline boss? 3 minutes? You do have a point, that some bosses have just too much health for a solo player to reasonably deal with, but when you start suggesting stuff your argument falls apart due to how laughably low hp you want bosses to have 

Why do you think that 1.3 minutes is not enough? 
A boss with a 6-minute boss fight should have a great and long soundtrack, a variety of attacks, possibly several phases and cutscenes.

What does Celesital Scion offer? 3 attacks... Phase 1... The soundtrack is 57 seconds long...
and only 2 cutscenes (This is the first boss cutscene in DST lol, not counting Ancient Fuel Weaver). 

And in terms of the plot...
What he is like. The Moon Champion who takes revenge on us 3 times. About whom we know nothing, he has no character, and apparently we will never see him again.

His only importance in the plot is that he ate Wagstaffa and it's all.

The only good storyline boss is Ancient Fuelweaver. He has a lore, he has a personality and can talk, he even has a goal - to protect the portal from the interference of others and thus he protects others too. 
He even reacts to the fact that we are repairing the portal. Although it is not clear how he is alive if, after we defeat him, Charlie does something to take off

21 hours ago, Wawchik said:

1.3 minutes for end of the storyline boss? 3 minutes? You do have a point, that some bosses have just too much health for a solo player to reasonably deal with, but when you start suggesting stuff your argument falls apart due to how laughably low hp you want bosses to have 

DST bosses are not simple, but they are not simple in that they require various items from you that it is not possible to guess at all.
There are a lot of bosses in other games where you don't need a set of random items and you get sick and... you die and you die and you die... Bosses may not have a lot of hp per minute of a fight, but you'll keep dying because you don't have enough reaction time to keep up with a variety of moves.

I don't like the stupidity of having one player and 6 doesn't make sense. You say that hp below 16,000 is ridiculous. It turns out that Klei are the main jokers since they add such a low hp to the game?

[grem6]

6 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

Why do you think that 1.3 minutes is not enough? 
A boss with a 6-minute boss fight should have a great and long soundtrack, a variety of attacks, possibly several phases and cutscenes.

What does Celesital Scion offer? 3 attacks... Phase 1... The soundtrack is 57 seconds long...
and only 2 cutscenes (This is the first boss cutscene in DST lol, not counting Ancient Fuel Weaver).

I don't see in what way does a cutscene relate to boss fight quality, scion fight is only 3 minutes rather than 6 even as wilson without any damage mults.

Scion has 4 phases.

Scion's attacks wouldn't work if the fight'd be significantly shorter, as it needs time to build up the damaging field with it's slams to make it threatening.

Edited August 1, 2025 by grem6

[Hungry French]

21 hours ago, Wawchik said:

1.3 minutes for end of the storyline boss? 3 minutes? You do have a point, that some bosses have just too much health for a solo player to reasonably deal with, but when you start suggesting stuff your argument falls apart due to how laughably low hp you want bosses to have 

And it's all about interest. Here's an example with a regular hound. She has 150 hp and you need to dodge her attack 0-3 times depending on the weapon and character.  Is it fast? Yes. Does she need to boost her hp so that she kills more slowly? Let's say she has 1,500 HP and now you need to dodge up to 30 times from her. Isn't that cool? And if 15,000 ? Will you enjoy this kind of gameplay? I don't think. The same problem with bosses.

Some players don't like very long and monotonous boss fights. That's why they use mods and stuff.  

Someone is fighting this using mods for hp creatures. But unfortunately, most of the bosses are broken in this regard and they can't be as exciting as the bosses from DS who had perfect HP and a fight that lasted only 1 playing of the soundtrack and dodging 1 attack . 

Someone fixes this with a boss hp mod, so that the player, looking at the hp bar, thinks less about how long the boss is. 

And most of them just play in a team and the hp team of all the bosses and creatures is really funny. 
It turns out that Klei is the main pranksters since they create jokes for a multiplayer game.

 

32 minutes ago, grem6 said:

Я не понимаю, каким образом кат-сцена влияет на качество боя с боссом. Бой со Сционом длится всего 3 минуты, а не 6, даже если играть за Уилсона без каких-либо множителей урона.

У Scion 4 фазы.

Атаки Scion не сработали бы, если бы бой был значительно короче, так как ему нужно время, чтобы создать разрушительное поле с помощью ударов, которые представляют угрозу.

It has 2 phases. In phase 1, he uses 2 attacks. In the second 3.
And that's it. I will not accept phases that do not add new attacks or change the conditions and environment of the battle in any way. The same applies to Bee Queen phase 4, which is exactly like 3, but uses the ability a little more often.

3 minutes? In order for you to kill him in 3 minutes, you need to stand afk dealing 88 damage per second. Let me guess. This is with the Ancient Fuelweaver armor, which cancels an entire attack...

Won't it work? She's more than working right now. So much so that even by forcing him to attack the ocean, you will eventually have a very small arena and you will have to teleport to a place with a lunar plague so that he can use it in an already filled floor. As a result, the teleportation to the lunar plague begins to repeat itself in order to save the last piece.

I'm not arguing. The mechanics are interesting and excellent, one of the best in the game in terms of ideas. But a lot of hp makes you take damage just to survive. Fortunately, it helps that the boss, when he has about 50% hp, starts making swipe attacks literally to nowhere. In my first fight, I couldn't figure out who the hell he was attacking on an empty island...

Edited August 1, 2025 by Hungry French

[cybers2001]

On 7/30/2025 at 5:13 AM, grem6 said:

Imo it's more fun to have to control warbot position yourself, given that you also get an indication for it going low hp (single batches of missiles only start after 25%), which you could use to know when you should move it closer to center.

The problem is that once the pieces land, you're committed to those positions forever until you defeat the Scion. So if you get an unlucky configuration then you're kinda just boned.

[Hungry French]

4 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

Проблема в том, что, как только фигуры займут свои позиции, вы будете привязаны к ним навсегдадо тех пор, пока не победите Отпрыска. Так что есливам не повезёт с конфигурацией, то вы просто проиграете.

It doesn't cause any problems. Until he starts using his signature ability. Although by that time, his poison will be everywhere except those poor 3 pillars in the corner. Or alone?

[grem6]

1 hour ago, Hungry French said:

It has 2 phases. In phase 1, he uses 2 attacks. In the second 3.

Literally wrong, 1st phase (100-95%) only has dashes, 2nd has 2 dashes -> slam (95-75%), 3rd has 1-2 dashes -> slam (75-65%), 4th has 1-2 dashes -> 1-2 slams, supernova and dash to center (65-0%)

1 hour ago, Hungry French said:

3 minutes? In order for you to kill him in 3 minutes, you need to stand afk dealing 88 damage per second. Let me guess. This is with the Ancient Fuelweaver armor, which cancels an entire attack...

You, in fact, do not. Even if you calculate it, (16000/88)*0.467=84.9, that's less than 1.5 mins of holding F. 3 minutes was without holding F, you could look up any scion wilson fight. No, this was without bone armor in mind.

1 hour ago, Hungry French said:

Won't it work? She's more than working right now.

And you're suggesting to break it by making it have 4k hp, so that it'll only do 1-2 slams before dying.

1 hour ago, Hungry French said:

As a result, the teleportation to the lunar plague begins to repeat itself in order to save the last piece.

This is also unnecessary.

 

Here, I've done a fight with scion literally 5 mins ago to demonstrate. It was even 2.5 mins rather than 3.

1 hour ago, cybers2001 said:

The problem is that once the pieces land, you're committed to those positions forever until you defeat the Scion. So if you get an unlucky configuration then you're kinda just boned.

You still can do the fight with any position of them, I imagine most people would reach scion during late game so even if they can't just carry through with skill, they could at least swap to warly and then wolfgang for max. dps.

Edited August 1, 2025 by grem6

[Hungry French]

22 minutes ago, grem6 said:

Literally wrong, 1st phase (100-95%) only has dashes, 2nd has 2 dashes -> slam (75-65%), 3rd has 1-2 dashes -> slam, supernova and dash to center (65-0%)

You, in fact, do not. Even if you calculate it, (16000/88)*0.467=84.9, that's less than 1.5 mins of holding F. 3 minutes was without holding F, you could look up any scion wilson fight. No, this was without bone armor in mind.

And you're suggesting to break it by making it have 4k hp, so that it'll only do 1-2 slams before dying.

This is also unnecessary.

 

Here, I've done a fight with scion literally 5 mins ago to demonstrate. It was even 2.5 mins rather than 3.

 

You still can do the fight with any position of them, I imagine most people would reach scion during late game so even if they can't just carry through with skill, they could at least swap to warly and then wolfgang for max. dps.

3 phases... Where an attack is added to each one. It looks poor. 
What nonsense. When I fought with him, he had an irresistible desire to fly in some random direction, and not at me. He was just flying into a field where there was already poison, and I had to use teleportation so that he wouldn't cover everything else. In the end, I fought for half a fight using Gloomerang.
Isn't it already broken? Except for my strange behavior. Then he gets killed for Wilson in 2.3 minutes... This is one of the fastest raid boss battle. Part of the point is that the boss is literally afk. You can make 7-13 attacks... This is insanely much against the background of the same Be Queen.
And doesn't the fight already seem broken to you? Add 1 player and the fight is already 2 times shorter... Or the unbalanced reworks and skill trees... Not to mention full-fledged teams.

I personally don't respect the mechanics of changing characters. 
It makes the game... Too blurry.

 

27 minutes ago, grem6 said:

Literally wrong, 1st phase (100-95%) only has dashes, 2nd has 2 dashes -> slam (75-65%), 3rd has 1-2 dashes -> slam, supernova and dash to center (65-0%)

You, in fact, do not. Even if you calculate it, (16000/88)*0.467=84.9, that's less than 1.5 mins of holding F. 3 minutes was without holding F, you could look up any scion wilson fight. No, this was without bone armor in mind.

And you're suggesting to break it by making it have 4k hp, so that it'll only do 1-2 slams before dying.

This is also unnecessary.

 

Here, I've done a fight with scion literally 5 mins ago to demonstrate. It was even 2.5 mins rather than 3.

 

You still can do the fight with any position of them, I imagine most people would reach scion during late game so even if they can't just carry through with skill, they could at least swap to warly and then wolfgang for max. dps.

Well, I also want to note that a very fast battle is achieved by passing without damage.What are too ideal conditions for void scythe

49 minutes ago, grem6 said:

Буквально неверно: на 1-й фазе (100–95 %) есть только штрихи, на 2-й — 2 штриха → рывок (75–65 %), на 3-й — 1–2 штриха → рывок, сверхновая и рывок к центру (65–0 %)

На самом деле нет. Даже если посчитать, (16000/88)*0,467=84,9, то есть меньше 1,5 минут удержания F. 3 минуты — это без удержания F, можете посмотреть любой бой Скина Уилсона. Нет, это без учёта костной брони.

И вы предлагаете сломать его, сделав так, чтобы у него было 4000 единиц здоровья, и тогда он сможет нанести всего 1–2 удара, прежде чем умрёт.

В этом тоже нет необходимости.

 

Вот, буквально 5 минут назад я провёл бой со Scion, чтобы продемонстрировать это. Бой длился даже 2,5 минуты, а не 3.

 

Вы по-прежнему можете сражаться, используя любую из этих позиций. Я полагаю, что большинство игроков доходят до «Наследника» в поздней игре, поэтому, даже если они не могут просто продолжать использовать навык, они могут хотя бы переключиться на «Воина», а затем на «Волчий отряд» для максимального урона.

Try kill him with brightsword 

Edited August 1, 2025 by Hungry French

[Hungry French]

1 hour ago, grem6 said:

Буквально неверно: на 1-й фазе (100–95 %) есть только штрихи, на 2-й — 2 штриха → рывок (75–65 %), на 3-й — 1–2 штриха → рывок, сверхновая и рывок к центру (65–0 %)

На самом деле нет. Даже если посчитать, (16000/88)*0,467=84,9, то есть меньше 1,5 минут удержания F. 3 минуты — это без удержания F, можете посмотреть любой бой Скина Уилсона. Нет, это без учёта костной брони.

И вы предлагаете сломать его, сделав так, чтобы у него было 4000 единиц здоровья, и тогда он сможет нанести всего 1–2 удара, прежде чем умрёт.

В этом тоже нет необходимости.

 

Вот, буквально 5 минут назад я провёл бой со Scion, чтобы продемонстрировать это. Бой длился даже 2,5 минуты, а не 3.

 

Вы по-прежнему можете сражаться, используя любую из этих позиций. Я полагаю, что большинство игроков доходят до «Наследника» в поздней игре, поэтому, даже если они не могут просто продолжать использовать навык, они могут хотя бы переключиться на «Воина», а затем на «Волчий отряд» для максимального урона.

The cool thing is when he raises his 2 paws and turns sharply to the right or left and you take a lot of damage and he litters the arena

[grem6]

3 hours ago, Hungry French said:

3 phases... Where an attack is added to each one. It looks poor. 
What nonsense. When I fought with him, he had an irresistible desire to fly in some random direction, and not at me. He was just flying into a field where there was already poison, and I had to use teleportation so that he wouldn't cover everything else. In the end, I fought for half a fight using Gloomerang.
Isn't it already broken? Except for my strange behavior. Then he gets killed for Wilson in 2.3 minutes... This is one of the fastest raid boss battle. Part of the point is that the boss is literally afk. You can make 7-13 attacks... This is insanely much against the background of the same Be Queen.
And doesn't the fight already seem broken to you? Add 1 player and the fight is already 2 times shorter... Or the unbalanced reworks and skill trees... Not to mention full-fledged teams.

I personally don't respect the mechanics of changing characters. 
It makes the game... Too blurry.

 

Well, I also want to note that a very fast battle is achieved by passing without damage.What are too ideal conditions for void scythe

Try kill him with brightsword 

At the start of the dash, the scion calculates where will it end up after the dash ends. If the next attack, after the dash, will be a slam, and if it calculates that it won't end up close enough to the center, it won't dash at the player and will instead dash to the center. That was an issue with how you fought it rather than just the boss glitching out, you got to either still live with it flying to the center or just aim it away from center after the start of the dash.

I've already done the fight with brightshade sword and ham bat previously when just playing. I used scythe because the point was speed. I don't see in what way is using the scythe invalid. Although even with ham bat + enlightened crown/brightshade sword the fight's still around 3-4 mins rather than 6.

"Boss is afk" complaint seems very silly given that this has nothing to do with the discussion, it started with you saying that the boss should have 4k hp, you complaining about the boss allowing you to do many attacks on it doesn't make sense given that you seemingly want the fight to last less, and getting to attack more makes it last less.

I don't see how is "2 players is (theoretically) x2 as much damage" relevant for this boss given that this applies to almost any thing, although the scion does wait for a bit less time in between attacks after reaching a specific dps threshold.

Edited August 2, 2025 by grem6

[Hungry French]

3 minutes ago, grem6 said:

В начале рывка отпрыск рассчитывает, где он окажется после его завершения. Если следующей атакой после рывка будет удар, и если отпрыск рассчитает, что он окажется недостаточно близко к центру, то он не будет рывком приближаться к игроку, а вместо этого устремится к центру. Проблема была в том, как вы с ним сражались, а не в том, что у босса возникали сбои. Вам нужно было либо смириться с тем, что он летит к центру, либо просто уводить его от центра после начала рывка.

Я уже проходил бой с мечом Брайтшейд и битой Хэм, просто играя. Я использовал косу, потому что главное — это скорость. Я не понимаю, почему использование косы считается неправильным. Хотя даже с битой Хэм и мечом Брайтшейд бой длится около 3–4 минут, а не 6.

Жалоба на то, что «босс не в сети», кажется очень глупой, учитывая, что это не имеет никакого отношения к обсуждению. Всё началось с того, что вы сказали, что у босса должно быть 4000 единиц здоровья. Ваша жалоба на то, что босс позволяет вам наносить ему много ударов, не имеет смысла, учитывая, что вы, по-видимому, хотите, чтобы бой длился меньше, а чем больше вы атакуете, тем меньше он длится.

Я не понимаю, как утверждение «2 игрока — это (теоретически) в 2 раза больше урона» применимо к этому боссу, учитывая, что это справедливо практически для всего, хотя наследник действительно ждёт немного меньше времени между атаками, если урон становится слишком высоким.

What about the fact that the boss can turn to the right or to the left during an attack in 1 frame?

[grem6]

4 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

What about the fact that the boss can turn to the right or to the left during an attack in 1 frame?

How is this in any way related to decreasing it's hp like how you suggested? But anyhow, most creatures in this game can literally turn 180 in an instant, while scion during the slam can only rotate 45 by 45 degrees (which is why it doesn't do a 180 if you walk under it). I see why you might not like it, due to it being somewhat tight, but I don't see how is this somehow some sort of objective flaw, neither do I know how would it turn slower unless it'd like wait X frames before updating your location for it's rotation, but I don't see why would it do that, unless it'd be deemed too hard to avoid rotating it (and imo it's fine).

Edited August 2, 2025 by grem6

[Hungry French]

10 minutes ago, grem6 said:

8 minutes ago, grem6 said:

Как это вообще связано с уменьшением его здоровья, как вы и предположили? Но в любом случае большинство существ в этой игре могут буквально развернуться на 180 градусов за мгновение, в то время как Сцион во время удара может повернуться только на 45 градусов (поэтому он не разворачивается на 180 градусов, если вы проходите под ним). Я понимаю, почему вам это может не нравиться из-за некоторой тесноты, но я не вижу в этом какого-то объективного недостатка. Я также не понимаю, почему он должен вращаться медленнее, если только он не должен ждать X кадров, прежде чем обновить ваше местоположение для вращения. Но я не понимаю, зачем ему это делать, если только не будет слишком сложно избежать его вращения (и, на мой взгляд, это нормально).

.

I've already done the fight with brightshade sword and ham bat previously when just playing. I used scythe because the point was speed. I don't see in what way is using the scythe invalid. Although even with ham bat + enlightened crown/brightshade sword the fight's still around 3-4 mins rather than 6.

"Boss is afk" complaint seems very silly given that this has nothing to do with the discussion, it started with you saying that the boss should have 4k hp, you complaining about the boss allowing you to do many attacks on it doesn't make sense given that you seemingly want the fight to last less, and getting to attack more makes it last less.

I don't see how is "2 players is (theoretically) x2 as much damage" relevant for this boss given that this applies to almost any thing, although the scion does wait for a bit less time in between attacks if the dps becomes too high.

As far as I'm concerned, he shouldn't be fighting at all during this attack. The same Celestial Champin in phase 3 does not rotate sharply during attacks. 
It's stupid that I get damage that I can't dodge and that could potentially lead to defeat.

These are just bro's questions. 
4000 good health. Because there are no real 16,000 on the servers for the unbalanced characters either. How do you feel about this?

[grem6]

7 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

As far as I'm concerned, he shouldn't be fighting at all during this attack. The same Celestial Champin in phase 3 does not rotate sharply during attacks. 
It's stupid that I get damage that I can't dodge and that could potentially lead to defeat.

It's avoidable, you just played poorly. It rotates at you, not just on it's own. It not rotating would be disadvantageous due to aiming it being crucial

8 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

These are just bro's questions. 

4000 good health. Because there are no real 16,000 on the servers for the unbalanced characters either. How do you feel about this?

This section doesn't make any sense

[Hungry French]

4 minutes ago, grem6 said:

This section doesn't make any sense

Is 16,000 hp good for how many and which players?

[Edible Coal]

40 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

Is 16,000 hp good for how many and which players?

one player, i saw tons of twitch streamers are able to beat it with no issue

[Hungry French]

7 hours ago, Edible Coal said:

один игрок, я видел, как множество стримеров на Twitch без проблем прошли эту игру

It's not about the issue, but about the overall game balance of the raid bosses hp. Did Klei design a boss for 1 player? This is still a multiplayer game, which Klei positions as a team walkthrough.
It turns out that Klei does not balance the game well for multiplayer, based on your words, what is this boss for singles?
Maybe Klei initially makes an extremely casual and simple game for a team, and the complexity and even stuffiness and dullness of a single-player game is a consequence of Klei's negligence and unwillingness to balance it for granted? 
Maybe all this discontent towards skill tree is the stupidity and whining of solo players who don't like the fact that Klei simplified the game. Although they do it year after year. And was the multiplayer initially of a complexity comparable to DS or even simpler?

[Edible Coal]

4 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

It's not about the issue, but about the overall game balance of the raid bosses hp. Did Klei design a boss for 1 player? This is still a multiplayer game, which Klei positions as a team walkthrough.
It turns out that Klei does not balance the game well for multiplayer, based on your words, what is this boss for singles?
Maybe Klei initially makes an extremely casual and simple game for a team, and the complexity and even stuffiness and dullness of a single-player game is a consequence of Klei's negligence and unwillingness to balance it for granted? 
Maybe all this discontent towards skill tree is the stupidity and whining of solo players who don't like the fact that Klei simplified the game. Although they do it year after year. And was the multiplayer initially of a complexity comparable to DS or even simpler?

i would say this boss is pretty designed for team fights as well, because scion will target the teammate that didnt position well , meaning everyone need to understand how the boss work to controll its attacks. if you compare it to other bosses , most team fight are just holding f 

[Hungry French]

12 minutes ago, Edible Coal said:

Я бы сказал, что этот босс отлично подходит для командных сражений, потому что Сцион будет атаковать того члена команды, который занял неправильную позицию. Это значит, что все должны понимать, как работает босс, чтобы контролировать его атаки. Если сравнивать его с другими боссами, то в большинстве командных сражений нужно просто удерживать

Yes, but you have many times more damage in your team. Which may not reveal the boss's chip with the field cover.

Which indicates poor boss balancing. Because in solo you also need to understand how the boss works, and in a team this knowledge can be devalued.

What about Ancient Fuelweaver, Crab King, Toadstool, Dragonfly, Bee Queen, Twins, Mutated Varg. These are at least the bosses that have multiplayer mechanics and you don't just have to hold down F.