The somnium synthesizer needs a rework

[Flytrap]

First of all, make pajamas craftable, repairable, and not disappear when taken off

 

Second, create a clothes checkpoint. Not just for these, but in general. Let me mandate the outfits however i see fit. If i want them to wear warm clothes in my cold room or summer wear in a warm room, then let me

 

Third, make the dream journals not guaranteed. Noone dreams every single time they sleep.

 

 

Overall, this'd let all the dupes wear pajamas and their normal clothes, and creating points where they have to change clothes is a nice, small mechanic added to the game. A small amount of extra depth. It'd also let people use the somnium synthesizer without dedicated six dupes to it permanently, which, still remains an option, just maybe the amount of dupes might change. Im fine with this being an option, i just dont want it to be the only way to make this otherwise cool building usable.

[asurendra]

On 4/1/2025 at 4:21 AM, Flytrap said:

Third, make the dream journals not guaranteed. Noone dreams every single time they sleep.

Actually, everyone dreams every night. We just dont remember most of our dreams. But thats why mind-reading brain machine exists

[cyberwarlord]

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164981-파자마를-베개로-pajama-pillow/?do=findComment&comment=1808374

[Flytrap]

On 4/3/2025 at 12:59 AM, cyberwarlord said:

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164981-파자마를-베개로-pajama-pillow/?do=findComment&comment=1808374

They are not quite the ideas i had in mind, and in my opinion, that'd trivialize the game.

My way would require you to do some clothes checkpoint management before it becomes a big upgrade.

 

That being said, if the price of my ideas getting implemented, then a moderate nerf is probably in order, because with how i outlined it, it doesnt require too much effort and the bonus would be very high for something like that. Maybe create a tiered system where my ideas would be like tier 1 or tier 2, and nerf it accordingly, and create ways to boost it further back to its current level, at the cost of more effort. Like requiring more journals which would require a team of sleeping dupes

 

 

[6Havok9]

On 4/6/2025 at 12:56 PM, Flytrap said:

Like requiring more journals which would require a team of sleeping dupes

So.. like it currently is?

 

On 4/1/2025 at 12:21 AM, Flytrap said:

make the dream journals not guaranteed.

No, no, NO! HELL NO!

[Primalflower]

On 3/31/2025 at 4:21 PM, Flytrap said:

Third, make the dream journals not guaranteed. Noone dreams every single time they sleep.

this would singlehandedly destroy the mechanics usability

[lowercase skye]

On 3/31/2025 at 6:21 PM, Flytrap said:

Third, make the dream journals not guaranteed. Noone dreams every single time they sleep.

On 4/2/2025 at 3:12 AM, asurendra said:

Actually, everyone dreams every night. We just dont remember most of our dreams.

Additionally, you know what the best way is to make sure you DO remember your dreams every night? Writing them down! Keeping a dream journal (even just in the notes app of your phone) tells your brain that dreams are important to remember, while usually it would throw them out like garbage data every morning. And heck, even if you DON'T remember any dreams in a night, just writing down "I don't remember my dreams last night" will still do a great job of conveying to your brain that dreams are important, and that it needs to hold onto them more/ So I think dream journals make a lot of sense happening every single sleep, the fact that they're keeping dream journals in the first place is what's causing it!

[evilcat19xx]

On 3/31/2025 at 5:21 PM, Flytrap said:

Second, create a clothes checkpoint. Not just for these, but in general. Let me mandate the outfits however i see fit. If i want them to wear warm clothes in my cold room or summer wear in a warm room, then let me

This. Otherwise, why do we even have different skins in the first place? In winter lands, we always wear jackets over them, so you can’t see them; unless you manually remove the jacket.

[gigamoi]

7 hours ago, evilcat19xx said:

This. Otherwise, why do we even have different skins in the first place? In winter lands, we always wear jackets over them, so you can’t see them; unless you manually remove the jacket.

This inspired me the following reflection. Generally speaking, the whole suit/clothing system is currently a mess. Gameplay-wise, there is a "suit" layer on top, a "clothes" layer below, and the dupe itself as a base.

Suits clearly carry functions. Masks give the dupes oxygen. Atmosuits give both oxygen and environment protection. Lead suits additionally protect from radiations. Jet suits make dupes fly. If you want to use the suit's function, you set up a dock. You do setup a dock because the suits require maintenance that can only be provided at a dock and/or come with some draw back that may be difficult to ignore.

The base "dupe" layer carries cosmetics and customization.

Clothes on the other hand are a bit wonky. On one hand, they carry some function. Snazzy suits carry decor. So do primo garbs. Warm coats carry insulation (which ironically also helps when its getting hot). Pajamas allow for dream journals (and are "clothes" if I'm not mistaken). Yet, on the other hand, they also strongly carry cosmetics with snazzy suits and primo garbs. They even completely override the base "dupe" layer making it completely moot.

Pajamas don't require any maintenance and, thus, don't have docks, but they have such a high athletics penalty that players would wish for one. That would make them work like suits, but they occupy (to my knowledge) the clothing slot. It makes sense in a way. The suits are some sort of over-clothes the pajamas are not. One would not wear their pajamas above their clothes. Similarly, one could wear pajamas in a lead suit. So they are a bit in between and that's the crux of the issue.

Having the pajamas be dockable would require all the other clothes to be dockable as well for them to retains their utility in the presence of pyjamas. This lave the option to ignore those docks if no pajamas are involved. I can see it working with other purely functional clothes such as the warm coat, but primo garbs would would be a mess with such a system. That's because primo garbs are themselves also in between layers as they are both functional through their decor effect and cosmetic through their variety.

For the system to make sense, primo garbs and snazy suits as they exist today should be retired and their designs converted to free cosmetics as onesies IMO, their decor bonus be damned. (Perhaps they could return in some way as specific items rather that full blown "clothes" as I suggested in the dedicated forum. On a dedicated "layer" maybe.)

A cheaper but less lore sensible option would be to make pajamas into suits and to add a pajama dock. Perhaps this dedicated dock building could be unlocked through the same mechanism that gives us some essential building before we get to research them on Ceres, with a trigger on the POI building.

[cyberwarlord]

8 hours ago, gigamoi said:

This inspired me the following reflection. Generally speaking, the whole suit/clothing system is currently a mess. Gameplay-wise, there is a "suit" layer on top, a "clothes" layer below, and the dupe itself as a base.

Suits clearly carry functions. Masks give the dupes oxygen. Atmosuits give both oxygen and environment protection. Lead suits additionally protect from radiations. Jet suits make dupes fly. If you want to use the suit's function, you set up a dock. You do setup a dock because the suits require maintenance that can only be provided at a dock and/or come with some draw back that may be difficult to ignore.

The base "dupe" layer carries cosmetics and customization.

Clothes on the other hand are a bit wonky. On one hand, they carry some function. Snazzy suits carry decor. So do primo garbs. Warm coats carry insulation (which ironically also helps when its getting hot). Pajamas allow for dream journals (and are "clothes" if I'm not mistaken). Yet, on the other hand, they also strongly carry cosmetics with snazzy suits and primo garbs. They even completely override the base "dupe" layer making it completely moot.

Pajamas don't require any maintenance and, thus, don't have docks, but they have such a high athletics penalty that players would wish for one. That would make them work like suits, but they occupy (to my knowledge) the clothing slot. It makes sense in a way. The suits are some sort of over-clothes the pajamas are not. One would not wear their pajamas above their clothes. Similarly, one could wear pajamas in a lead suit. So they are a bit in between and that's the crux of the issue.

Having the pajamas be dockable would require all the other clothes to be dockable as well for them to retains their utility in the presence of pyjamas. This lave the option to ignore those docks if no pajamas are involved. I can see it working with other purely functional clothes such as the warm coat, but primo garbs would would be a mess with such a system. That's because primo garbs are themselves also in between layers as they are both functional through their decor effect and cosmetic through their variety.

For the system to make sense, primo garbs and snazy suits as they exist today should be retired and their designs converted to free cosmetics as onesies IMO, their decor bonus be damned. (Perhaps they could return in some way as specific items rather that full blown "clothes" as I suggested in the dedicated forum. On a dedicated "layer" maybe.)

A cheaper but less lore sensible option would be to make pajamas into suits and to add a pajama dock. Perhaps this dedicated dock building could be unlocked through the same mechanism that gives us some essential building before we get to research them on Ceres, with a trigger on the POI building.

Simple clothing locker.

Saves what the dupe was wearing as it passes one way giving them the selected stored item.

Exiting removes and stores the selected item while replacing the original.

 

 

Locker swaps dupe from state a - b and back with each interaction. 

[evilcat19xx]

10 hours ago, gigamoi said:

the whole suit/clothing system is currently a mess

True. And I agree with the rest as well.

1 hour ago, cyberwarlord said:

Simple clothing locker.

Saves what the dupe was wearing as it passes one way giving them the selected stored item.

This can be a short-term solution...

[cyberwarlord]

46 minutes ago, evilcat19xx said:

True. And I agree with the rest as well.

This can be a short-term solution...

Does it need to be more complex then that?

You have what you need, when you need it, where you need it only. Compact, no power needed I'd assume. Already an art asset. And storage / exchange mechanics. 

● Potential for more niche clothing or attire that would be tedious to manually swap.

By setting lockers to assigned dupes others could bypass it if not needed. Such as delivery tasks.

Useful gloves, goggles, boots, wet suit, flippers(?) thermal suit, pajamas, apron, medical mask.

Could design layered outfits for specialized tasks by adding multiple items to a locker.

Though you would need new or advanced game mechanics to really have any need for many outfits outside of RP.

Hot/cold/wet/radiation. are your only real threats, maybe the occasional animal bite. But making dupes work more effectively or having higher requirements for difficult tasks would be a good option. (Imo)

Edited April 9, 2025 by cyberwarlord

[Quyzbuk]

I like how you're all discussing this as if you don't abuse the disable building bug to keep it permanently active upon completion.

 

EDIT: Oh and I disagree with all the thoughts in here, you're overthinking and convoluting a rather simple optional bonus. It's fine as is. Aside from making sure it's properly oxygenated, I've never had to devote a passing thought to it after completing it.

Edited April 9, 2025 by Quyzbuk

[cyberwarlord]

I find it overpowered.

With a larger colony and full time pajamas I'm getting massive bonuses for -1 athletics.

Once that colony is stable, you can mass produce resources with just work speed.

 

The disable building bug needs a quick patch.

[evilcat19xx]

1 hour ago, cyberwarlord said:

Does it need to be more complex then that?

The issue is that Snazzy Suits, warm coats, and Clothing Refashinator outfits all impact morale and require Reedfiber. Skins, on the other hand, don’t need any resources and don’t affect morale. The Clothing Refashinator feels completely redundant when skins already exist. I think in the end, they’ll get rid of it since it doesn’t work in parallel with skins.

One potential solution is if we could add traits to skins, kind of like what they did with robot dupe traits. That, plus checkpoints (or a clothing locker), could be a solution.

[cyberwarlord]

3 hours ago, evilcat19xx said:

The issue is that Snazzy Suits, warm coats, and Clothing Refashinator outfits all impact morale and require Reedfiber. Skins, on the other hand, don’t need any resources and don’t affect morale. The Clothing Refashinator feels completely redundant when skins already exist. I think in the end, they’ll get rid of it since it doesn’t work in parallel with skins.

One potential solution is if we could add traits to skins, kind of like what they did with robot dupe traits. That, plus checkpoints (or a clothing locker), could be a solution.

I see. Then with the locker atleast you know they would be showing both at times at the very least.

Let people use the reskins on the suits would be nice. 

[gigamoi]

I also had the idea of a locker that keeps in memory which dupe came in wearing what to give it back when the dupes return and, while it works on simple case. It quickly becomes a nightmare to implement (or very limiting) if you have several passage points so I think its a bad idea.

Edited April 9, 2025 by gigamoi
typo

[cyberwarlord]

2 hours ago, gigamoi said:

I also had the idea of a locker that keeps in memory which dupe came in wearing what to give it back when the dupes return and, while it works on simple case. It quickly becomes a nightmare to implement (or very limiting) if you have several passage points so I think its a bad idea.

How so?

[gigamoi]

1 minute ago, cyberwarlord said:

How so?

Base has two entry points A and B. Dupe exits through A, leaving their primo garb and equipping a warm coat. Dupe enters back through B, leaving their warm coat. Does B give something to the dupe?

If so, what does it give to the dupe and happens when the dupe exits again through A?

If not, you have a dupe in your base without their original garb.

You could make it so a dupe can only come back through the exit it used but that's not very flexible.

And I didn't even get into what could/should happen when you build and destroy passage points.

[cyberwarlord]

13 minutes ago, gigamoi said:

Base has two entry points A and B. Dupe exits through A, leaving their primo garb and equipping a warm coat. Dupe enters back through B, leaving their warm coat. Does B give something to the dupe?

If so, what does it give to the dupe and happens when the dupe exits again through A?

If not, you have a dupe in your base without their original garb.

You could make it so a dupe can only come back through the exit it used but that's not very flexible.

And I didn't even get into what could/should happen when you build and destroy passage points.

Sounds like the same challenge as working with suit docks. 

It's on the player to design a working layout. 

I'd say both activate putting the dupe in the intended outfit and,or removing the one it gave giving the stored setting.

 

If A' is 'checked out' and B' is 'checked out' currently equipped then A' has no action until you return the original item if passed by.

 

Meaning you would need to pass back through in the proper sequence. 

[gigamoi]

On 4/9/2025 at 5:48 PM, cyberwarlord said:

Meaning you would need to pass back through in the proper sequence. 

Yeah, that's my point. Multiple passage points are, although manageable with the use of "vacancy only", somewhat janky already. Adding some memory outfit dock would make those setups really messy, especially if you consider cases in which some of your dupes wear a garb and some don't.

 

Lets use a simplified example.

Say you are on Ceres with Nisbet and Meep. (Abe is busy on the other end of the teleporter.)

Nisbet has a garb to wear inside the base. Meep does not. It's cold outside so you setup docks for coats. You have two passage points A and B. Lets call gA and gB the docks meant for garbs and cA and cB the docks mant for coats. Your setup is like so:

outside <-cA-  -gA-> inside <-gB-  -cB> outside

Lets say all these docks have only one slot each. The docks/(dupe*passages) ratio is 1. It's a low number but keep in mind how it would scale with the number of dupes and passage points in a real case. If you think of an other possible setup, consider how much space it would use on a base with 20+ dupes and 3+ exits.

Here is the scenario:

Nisbet leaves through A.

Meep leaves the base as well. He must do so at B because cA no longer has coats. He must be allow to not deposit anything into gB (or gA for that matter) because he would otherwise be locked into the base.

Meep enters back through A. He must be allowed to pass gA (or gB for that matter) because no dock has any garb for him anywhere because he had none in the first place.

Nisbet enters back through B. She must do so because cA is full. (Similarly to atmosuit docks, cA and cB must be set to "no vacancy" to avoid coats being dropped out of the dock system.) Since gB doesn't have Nisbet's garb, if she is to be let into the base, she is now garbless in the base.

 

You could have forced meep to only enter back only through B by making it so that gA and gB only allow back in dupes that left through each, but Meep would then have to reserve an empty slot in gB as he leaves and put "nothing" in it to hold his right to enter back. I find that to be quite contrived.

Edited April 11, 2025 by gigamoi

[Prince Mandor]

On 4/1/2025 at 1:21 AM, Flytrap said:

First of all, make pajamas craftable, repairable, and not disappear when taken off

 

Second, create a clothes checkpoint. Not just for these, but in general. Let me mandate the outfits however i see fit. If i want them to wear warm clothes in my cold room or summer wear in a warm room, then let me

 

Third, make the dream journals not guaranteed. Noone dreams every single time they sleep.

 

 

Overall, this'd let all the dupes wear pajamas and their normal clothes, and creating points where they have to change clothes is a nice, small mechanic added to the game. A small amount of extra depth. It'd also let people use the somnium synthesizer without dedicated six dupes to it permanently, which, still remains an option, just maybe the amount of dupes might change. Im fine with this being an option, i just dont want it to be the only way to make this otherwise cool building usable.

Obvious effect of changes you recommends will be all dupes always sleep in pajamas and synthesizer generates randomly bonus

As it will be meta without any cost, so everybody will build it anyway, why not just add bonus and don't bother with all this pajamas and synthesizers?

[mitboy]

I do agree that current snazzy suit and primo garb are kind of redundant and probably should be just integrated into skins. Theres already enough options for decor. 

The one issue with that is it would make clothing refashinator worthless. Maybe some skins can have a different category to basic ones, and you can only put them on dupes in an actual gamw once you make clothing refashinator . 

Tbh, i dont even bother making textile mill in my games anymore because you get enough puffy vests just by rummaging clothing locks in random ruins around the map

 

[Tranoze]

On 4/1/2025 at 5:21 AM, Flytrap said:

without dedicated six dupes to it permanently

I just let my whole colony 20 dupes wear them permanently, no other clothings need to be crafted, they wear pajamas 24/7. When move to hot/ cold places they can just wear suit.