Woodie can no longer use tree army on FW

[WilsonHiggs]

7 hours ago, cropo said:

The only reason Fuelweaver is uniquely difficult is his healing; while all of his other moves combined are difficult to manage they aren't really this massive hurdle to overcome. If his healing was replaced by something like insta-killing the player for a few seconds any time he eats his bugs, even that would make him easier than he currently is.

So Fuelweaver is basically only hard because if the player plays on console or doesn't have Runescape-level PVP skills the fight can be undone in an instant, and that basically tells me that the only possible way they could top Fuelweaver in difficulty is to make another boss that can just instantly heal itself and undo the entire fight on a simple mistake while requiring the juggling of multiple items at once.

If they don't add an instant "screw you" mechanic to punish a mistake, no future content will ever be as difficult as fuelweaver is, and if they do keep adding bosses like that then Fuelweaver would no longer be unique.

A lot of post-rift bosses don't seem very feasible to just hold F on either, many of them have built-in mechanics to ragdoll you or freeze you if you try. I'm sure there are ways to do it but their movesets are pretty fun to actually interact with without needing players to fiddle around with a decade-old inventory system that most players aren't going to bother trying to skip the fights.

Fw's healing because a mistake is countered by bringuing extra gear...

[Bumber64]

3 hours ago, WilsonHiggs said:

Fw's healing because a mistake is countered by bringuing extra gear...

Very specific gear. You're also expected to know somehow what that is.

Bone cage? I should be able to smack my way through it like an ice wall, right? Mine or hammer it? Nope, only option is to teleport out.

And then you've got to walk him like a dog to prevent the heals that will otherwise spawn on top of him. Mooncaller and CK have you in the center of the arena. DFly (and AFW!) will reset if you go too far, yet you're edging him regardless.

[aidankocherhans]

1 hour ago, Bumber64 said:

Bone cage? I should be able to smack my way through it like an ice wall, right? Mine or hammer it? Nope, only option is to teleport out.

Now that you mention it, why isn't this a thing? I don't really get the point of the bone cage, it doesn't accomplish much other than requiring another item to juggle. Wasn't it originally implemented in an attempt to make soloing the boss impossible?

[DegenerateFurry]

2 hours ago, aidankocherhans said:

Now that you mention it, why isn't this a thing? I don't really get the point of the bone cage, it doesn't accomplish much other than requiring another item to juggle. Wasn't it originally implemented in an attempt to make soloing the boss impossible?

Yeah, Klei initially wanted the A New Reign bosses to basically require that you have more than one person. They backed down on this when everyone hated it because nobody has friends. It's why they changed Toadstool to actually have a third of its original HP (156,500) and to not be able to flee after five minutes (now it only flees if you go really far from the arena), although even its current 52,500 is a bit much solo.

[AliceShiki]

To be honest, I think it's generally a bad idea to make bosses being able to heal mid-battle in any game ever.

Like, I'm not gonna say it's impossible to implement it well, because I'm sure someone will be able to point out some good implementation from some game they played at some point in their life, but... I feel like it's usually a horrible mechanic almost every single time. It's just incredibly frustrating to the player to see themselves lose progress in their fight because the boss healed, and having that doesn't really add much to the fight that makes it an overall better experience.

Like, even if you want the boss to have some form of defensive mechanic that doesn't involve invulnerability, usually speaking you can just add a shield that caps at a certain amount (like, a shield that absorbs 1000 damage, and refreshes itself back to 1000 "health" whenever another hand touches Fuelweaver, for example) instead of healing, and you'll have a very similar effect to healing, but without removing player progress from the fight if they mess up.

Not trying to advocate for any changes to Fuelweaver here, for the record. I'm more talking about game design in general, because this isn't the first time I've seen a healing boss being an incredible source of frustration to the players. It just doesn't feel like very good design to me, which makes me wonder why devs still like to implement boss healing to this day... I wonder if there is something I'm simply missing that makes this actually good design, because I really can't see it. It really feels like a shield would just lead to better gameplay in basically every situation I can recall where I faced a boss that can heal.

[Guille6785]

4 hours ago, aidankocherhans said:

Wasn't it originally implemented in an attempt to make soloing the boss impossible?

no, this is a myth

1 hour ago, DegenerateFurry said:

It's why they changed Toadstool to actually have a third of its original HP (156,500) and to not be able to flee after five minutes (now it only flees if you go really far from the arena), although even its current 52,500 is a bit much solo.

this is misleading because beta toadstool not only gained no damage resistance from sporecaps but actually took 5 times as much damage during the sporecap phase (so if you only attacked him during that phase he actually had less effective HP than current toadstool), and this version of toadstool never even made it out of beta (during which it only lasted for a whopping 5 days)

[cropo]

Well in Toadstools case, I don't know how you can say a boss that was designed to run away if you didn't kill it in 5 minutes with 156k hp wasn't designed to stop solo players from being able to beat it.  It would take around 10 minutes for a godmode wolfgang holding F with Dark Swords to kill that, and they only really backtracked on it because JoeSchmoe ended up finding a ridiculous strategy to manage to do it anyway. 

[SpookyXy]

20 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

Not really fuel weaver is exactly how the game is ment to be it's the final test on a series of trials the player should have learned to deal with.  Minion spam, proper positioning, movement restrictions, Sanity, and spacing. Dont starve was learning through dying. 

I agree with you on some of those points but not all of them. 

Minion spam: The way most characters deal with minion spam is running away and trying to pick them off one by one, putting them to sleep, walling them away or getting your own horde to deal with them. None of these things will help against the woven shadows and makes a real difference between characters who have effective aoe in their kit and characters who have to go make weather pains or staves.

Movement restrictions: Most movement restrictions are countered by getting more speed bonus, allies to free you, breaking the walls that restrict you or getting more armour and healing to tank it. FW's cage is the only thing in the game that neccessitates teleportation to get out of and most of the time you're better off just tanking him through it because of limited Lazy explorer uses/time to hit the boss. But FW also heals himself and becomes invincible so you NEED to either have a ranged weapon or a way to teleport, otherwise you just can't win the fight normally.

[Guille6785]

7 hours ago, cropo said:

It would take around 10 minutes for a godmode wolfgang holding F with Dark Swords to kill that, and they only really backtracked on it because JoeSchmoe ended up finding a ridiculous strategy to manage to do it anyway. 

By the time joeshmo published his video Toadstool had already been reworked, I'm not trying to be mean but please do not spread misinformation just because it sounds cool

[Hollow soul 3]

16 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

Very specific gear. You're also expected to know somehow what that is.

Bone cage? I should be able to smack my way through it like an ice wall, right? Mine or hammer it? Nope, only option is to teleport out.

And then you've got to walk him like a dog to prevent the heals that will otherwise spawn on top of him. Mooncaller and CK have you in the center of the arena. DFly (and AFW!) will reset if you go too far, yet you're edging him regardless.

 you really don't need much beyond the basics you would bring to any boss. The weather pain does the bulk of the work. You can skip the amulet by just staying crazy, heal through the cage and use the weather pain when you get possessed. As long as the tornado is aimed to cancel most of his healing, the flight is pretty cake.

He's also one of the end game bosses. You should probably have a good grasp of the items in the different crafting tabs before you attempt him. After a couple attempts of not winning, it should at least be pretty obvious that you need something additional to overcome the challenge. 

[DegenerateFurry]

2 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

By the time joeshmo published his video Toadstool had already been reworked, I'm not trying to be mean but please do not spread misinformation just because it sounds cool

Do you have any proof for anything you're claiming? I'm not willing to trust your memory on this, least of all because it was so long ago.

[Arcwell]

56 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Do you have any proof for anything you're claiming? I'm not willing to trust your memory on this, least of all because it was so long ago.

Not trying to argue anything here but:

• Toadstool released on Sep 21-22, 2016 in Update 191140
• Toadstool health was reworked on Sep 26-27, 2016 in Update 191604
• Joeschmocoolstuff's video was published on Sep 28, 2016 (run was done on Update 191322, although this isn't relevant to the claim)

(The reason the first two have 2 dates is because the updates page and the discussion thread have different dates listed. I am assuming the updates page is correct and that it is 21 and 26, although I'm not positive).

[Guille6785]

3 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Do you have any proof for anything you're claiming? I'm not willing to trust your memory on this, least of all because it was so long ago.

Arcwell already kindly provided what I was going to answer with, but why is the onus even on me to provide evidence of what I'm claiming when I was responding to another baseless claim?? AFAIK the myth that "Klei reworked Toadstool because of Joeshmocoolstuff" was mindlessly made up by OrangE in his "history of Don't Starve" video, except he never had any evidence to claim that and it was just something he included to embellish the story of the video

[Well-met]

I wish bone cage was spawned from a high velocity projectile that could be avoided, like bishop or mctusk.

I also want sanity monsters to not spawn during FW if you're the only player in the server.

Oh and the bone ring attack should be reworked so its not useless

 

[WilsonHiggs]

17 minutes ago, Well-met said:

I wish bone cage was spawned from a high velocity projectile that could be avoided, like bishop or mctusk

Maybe something with the aesthetics of CC second phase's breach atack (that fissures that spawns glass walls) 

I think there should be more movility and dash options other than walking cane, lazy Explorer, magi, woodie's cane and wigfrid's spear, woby

We have the shield of terror but klei seems like they dont want to change It into something useful without buffing It in a dumb way

[Mr Giggio]

I have a question that I didnt got to read all the coments to see if its already here  - can we not change the turfing with the pitchfork and then plant the trees or atrium turf is unremovable? Sounds like impossible once it has already 4 pages so that would be a way easy solution but

[Arcwell]

1 hour ago, Mr Giggio said:

I have a question that I didnt got to read all the coments to see if its already here  - can we not change the turfing with the pitchfork and then plant the trees or atrium turf is unremovable? Sounds like impossible once it has already 4 pages so that would be a way easy solution but

You can't, unfortunately.
Tiles in the FW room are completely immutable from everything I've tested (pitchfork, turf-raiser helm, mudslinger).

[Mike23Ua]

On 3/25/2025 at 8:41 PM, Bumber64 said:

Very specific gear. You're also expected to know somehow what that is.

Bone cage? I should be able to smack my way through it like an ice wall, right? Mine or hammer it? Nope, only option is to teleport out.

And then you've got to walk him like a dog to prevent the heals that will otherwise spawn on top of him. Mooncaller and CK have you in the center of the arena. DFly (and AFW!) will reset if you go too far, yet you're edging him regardless.

This post actually probably sums up why I HATE Boss fights in DST. Now please understand that I’m no little child, I’ve been gaming for 35+ years but DST… is more annoying then it should be.

And by annoying I mean that it doesn’t give the player nearly enough information without having to scour the internet for videos and guides or step by step walkthroughs.

Now in my 35+ years of gaming experience I have enjoyed many really great and highly memorable boss fights, but when it comes to DST.. it just isn’t there.. the game needs more clear indications to the player of where an enemy is going to strike, and where they need to attempt to “dodge” to avoid being hit.

Play 33 Immortals and you’ll see what I mean, but it isn’t just this game, most RogueLites give players an early warning to move, dodge or avoid… and there’s often visible health bars to tell when something is close to dying, when it’s recovering and healing up, or when you moved so far away from that mob that it’s health instantly went back to fully healed up.

In most games I really enjoy boss fights, and I play some hard and unfair RogueLites, but DSTs bosses are more of a “your lack of knowledge is what’s gonna kill you.”

[Hollow soul 3]

8 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

“your lack of knowledge is what’s gonna kill you.”

About a half a decade away, but that's always been kind of the point to me. Success through trial and error. 

[WilsonHiggs]

10 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

most games I really enjoy boss fights, and I play some hard and unfair RogueLites, but DSTs bosses are more of a “your lack of knowledge is what’s gonna kill you.”

That is what the game, and most true survival games, are about

[Mike23Ua]

5 hours ago, WilsonHiggs said:

That is what the game, and most true survival games, are about

I mean.. I guess so, but if you compare this topic with other topics such as the ones discussing what can Klei do to bring new players into the game, it’s pretty clear to me that Klei doesn’t just bug fix the extreme glitches like void-walking, they also “BugFix” a character in the games actual Item/Combat Kit so that what was once a valid part of playing that character, is no longer possible in the scenarios they “BugFix” for.

MEANWHILE, as for my self personally… I think the game could use more “Onscreen Information” such as how 33 Immortals tasks 33 players with fighting Raid Dungeon Monsters but there’s all these little visual indicators of where an enemies attacks are about to land (such as how a red warning circle appears on the ground before one of the skeleton spider things leaps through the air and lands at that spot, or informs the player over where those worm things will be lobbing their projectiles towards.)

I meant to post this in the other thread about bringing in newer players, and that’s entirely my fault for getting the two threads completely mixed up, but considering that Klei is removing woodies noob friendly Treeguard Totem strategy, then that kind of goes hand in hand with making those same bosses they’re removing cheeses for easier to understand what’s actually going on in the fight (come on no one in their right mind is going to ever know your supposed to teleport out of bone cage traps)

some of the newer bosses (such as crystal Deerclops) has the better portrayed on screen animations of where its attacks are about to hit. But older areas of the game could use these sorts of visual guides for newer players as well.

Like I said my posts were intended to be in that other topic about how to keep newer players engaged with the game, and on that note: Introducing them to gameplay mechanics they’re overly familiar with that are common place in a lot of other games, would help with that.

[Swiyss]

I don't get. I don't understand this topic. So many misleading arguments. It's actually very easy to understand, and if you don't, you need to change the way you think.

If you don't like boss fights, then you're not the audience for it. Don't try to change what people enjoy already.
If you feel like you wanna progress through the game while not facing bosses head-on, there are ways in-game where you can do that.
If you can't use gunpowder on planar enemies, just use brightshade bombs.
Don"t wanna learn fuelweaver fight, use indirect in-game mechanics.

If you have problem with dfly larvae, just build the stone wall go ahead, no one is gonna cancel you for doing that.
And if you wanna use health adjust mods, then go ahead too, I won't shame you for it.

But to be so incredibly selfish to want to change the entire game's uncompromising mission of being hard and unfair in it's nature, to try to make it easier to accommodate you wanting rewards and resources at a low cost/maintenance is not to be expected from someone who says they love the game, yet they neglect the audience.

If you think the healing on fuelweaver is unfair, you're right, it is, and that's what makes it interesting for me, so don't try and take that from me for your own reasons.

If you're tired of fighting antlion every summer, trust me, it's way more annoying having to maintain her hunger level. Your own ideas of maintaining bosses will hardly make the developers of the game go "easy" on you, rather it'll be the opposite. You can already kill all spider in the surface, give their all 100 to 200 monster meat to a bird and spam eggs, burn an entire forest and mine nitre for 1 season to COMPLETELY negate the fighting action from 93% of bosses. If that's not enough for you, then please step out of the train or else you'll get dragged with it.

[WilsonHiggs]

1 hour ago, astareus said:

If you think the healing on fuelweaver is unfair, you're right, it is, and that's what makes it interesting for me, so don't try and take that from me for your own reasons.

They arent unfair. Sure, they heal lot but they have 1 hp and are very slow

1 single moose goose gives a lot of feathers for weather pains and goats can be multiplicated

[Cheggf]

1 hour ago, astareus said:

If you think the healing on fuelweaver is unfair, you're right, it is

Literally what is unfair about the boss having a way to heal if you don't do one of the 30 different things you can do to entirely prevent him from being able to heal? If anything is unfair it's that you can dodge his attacks while he can't dodge yours, and you can stop his healing while he can't stop yours. 

[Bumber64]

2 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Literally what is unfair about the boss having a way to heal if you don't do one of the 30 different things you can do to entirely prevent him from being able to heal? If anything is unfair it's that you can dodge his attacks while he can't dodge yours, and you can stop his healing while he can't stop yours. 

What's unfair is that he doesn't have to manage sanity from being around players.