Lag Switching/DoS attacks on Klei Hosted Public Servers

[Hush.]

A problem I have started to notice is blatant lag switching/ DoS attacks on US East/West Klei Hosted Public Realms. 

not 15 minutes ago, I was playing on Twiggy Tree - US West with a small group of players, Everything is going fine. Day before Deerclops was due to arrive, actually had a pretty good world going. A player joins the game named "Flubberknuckle"  (Steam ID Linked) and says "Do as I say, If you start a vote kick, I will crash the server" He then Proceeds to say "Hush. Say "N-word" or I crash the server." We queue up a vote kick to remove the player after telling him no and Instantly are met with a disconnected from Server screen. I have over 2000 Hours in DST. I play on Public servers I'd say 40% of my play time. Is there no protection at all regarding this? I get that public worlds inevitably end but in this way is mildly frustrating to say the least. How does the player prevent this? I firmly believe the best way to find other players to not starve with is publicly, but it seems almost every public world i play on inevitably falls to a griefer that has a way to manipulate the server into failing these days. I can tolerate a player griefing the base or whatever, so be it. but legitimately causing the server to stop working and force a reset? what is going on?

https://steamcommunity.com/id/sdflksjgljhfbgf/
https://gyazo.com/45a56a48402bd0ab0c7acce5e790af24

[Hush.]

Edit: he has now changed his steam ID https://steamcommunity.com/id/thecoolestcast/

76561198271617553 is the steam64 ID. 

[nimzowitsch10]

I've encountered some people that have been able to crash servers like that as well in the past, whether its through an exploit or actual DDos I wrote a post about it a couple years ago.

To keep it blunt, klei doesnt care nor will they do anything about it.

I've wrote countless posts about klei pubs and have recieved one or two responses from the developers ever, i've given up on them

[Crestwave]

1 hour ago, nimzowitsch10 said:

I've encountered some people that have been able to crash servers like that as well in the past, whether its through an exploit or actual DDos I wrote a post about it a couple years ago.

To keep it blunt, klei doesnt care nor will they do anything about it.

I've wrote countless posts about klei pubs and have recieved one or two responses from the developers ever, i've given up on them

In the past, there used to be a DoS exploit where clients could spam a bunch of invalid RPCs to slow the server down to a crawl. Klei eventually fixed it by adding rate-limiting for RPCs.

Needless to say, Klei does care about the game itself. However, it's difficult to determine the cause from a post like this. It could be an exploit or it could just be one of the many crashes game has had over its lifetime (DST is rather strict and crashes on even the slightest error) that are easy to trigger, and will eventually be patched out as players discover them.

As for Klei pubs specifically, yes, they are rather hands-off with them. The servers likely spin up an entirely new container instance every time they're restarted, hence the loss of progress on any crash or update.

I'm guessing the reason for this approach is because there are plenty of community-hosted servers that deal with crashes and griefers (you can message me if any crashes like this happen on the Survivors servers, which start with "DST"; additionally, some of our servers are configured to automatically restart on crashes with progress intact).

[Gashzer]

Make all resources renewable (mandrakes, pig houses, bunny hutches all world regen), remove the ability to vote. Problem solved.

[BarHot 857]

Klei does not care about it because many people volunteer to fight against greifers.

[Wawchik]

13 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Make all resources renewable (mandrakes, pig houses, bunny hutches all world regen), remove the ability to vote. Problem solved.

How exactly would this solve the issue described in this post?

[ShadowDuelist]

When a server is down Klei can check on the log about what happened, if this keeps happening they will eventually figure it out. I don’t think this post is pointless.

[Gashzer]

4 hours ago, BarHot 857 said:

Klei does not care about it because many people volunteer to fight against greifers.

 

2 hours ago, Wawchik said:

How exactly would this solve the issue described in this post?

Because there are 2 forms of griefers.

1. The obvious ones that do what this post describes, the stereotypical in your face griefers.
2. Then there are the not so obvious group griefers that control a klei server making it reach 4000 days by using afk mods and police the player count so they maintain majority control. Becoming defacto admins of the klei server and turning it into their own private server.

 

I've been on a klei server that a group has took control of... and it was a grim experience for new spawns who were at the full mercy of the control freaks that ruled the catcoon klei server.

Any sort of solutions that provide us with greater voting power or the ability to "save" klei server world progress to prevent the first form of griefing will enable the second form of griefing to thrive.

To quote Gandalf the Grey "Don't tempt me, Klei. I dare not take it. Not even to keep the servers safe. Understand Klei, I would use this Moderation Vote from a desire to do good. But through me, it would wield a power too great and terrible to imagine."

People would abuse the ability to save world progress to take over Klei servers and they would justify it, making it the most toxic and corrupted form of griefing there is.

Klei servers should reset often, they should be a place for people to make friends then make their own private server with them. Not for long term progress.

[lowercase skye]

15 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Make all resources renewable (mandrakes, pig houses, bunny hutches all world regen), remove the ability to vote. Problem solved.

The exact situation described in the original post would still happen, just with the griefer counting down "10... 9... 8..." instead of saying "if you start a vote kick".

[Balter]

I got it Klei should make a premium server where only individuals who pay a monthly subscription can join like say $19.99 this should be enough for them to officially fund a staff to check monitor the server around the clock. If this is really that important for you people then a payment for the service is agreeable on both sides. Simply put if you want Klei to keep track of your world 24/7 instead of focusing on game development just pay them.

 

 

 

edit: eh maybe $80 unless the server can hold up to 64 people, there’s hardly enough revenue.

[DegenerateFurry]

3 hours ago, Gashzer said:

 

Then there are the not so obvious group griefers that control a klei server making it reach 4000 days by using afk mods and police the player count so they maintain majority control. Becoming defacto admins of the klei server and turning it into their own private server.

 

I have literally never seen this, not even once. I'm not accusing you of making it up because it's technically possible, but it must be ridiculously uncommon. 

Something that probably happens less than a percent of a percent of the time is not a reason to delete the best defense against griefers Klei servers have (votekicks). If anything, they need to make votekicks last longer than they do, since the 10 or so minutes they last just incentivizes a griefer rejoining if they're determined. Up it to an hour at least.

[Queron81]

2 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

I have literally never seen this, not even once. I'm not accusing you of making it up because it's technically possible, but it must be ridiculously uncommon.

It was common some years ago, but haven't seen such a klei server for years (last time maybe 2020).

[goblinball]

Man, it’s so terrible that there are real, conscious ppl who would act like that griefer. I’m sorry you had to deal with that.

Burning down base is one thing. Harassing people and crashing the server is so much worse and is definitely crossing the line imo. hope whatever method they’re using to crash the server gets found and patched.

[Maxil20]

4 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

I have literally never seen this, not even once. I'm not accusing you of making it up because it's technically possible, but it must be ridiculously uncommon.

For reference, the incident being referenced occurred in Early 2020. It hasn't happened to an absurd degree since then, especially with the changes they made to the servers because of this incident.

[Wawchik]

4 hours ago, Balter said:

I got it Klei should make a premium server where only individuals who pay a monthly subscription can join like say $19.99 this should be enough for them to officially fund a staff to check monitor the server around the clock. If this is really that important for you people then a payment for the service is agreeable on both sides. Simply put if you want Klei to keep track of your world 24/7 instead of focusing on game development just pay them.

 

 

 

edit: eh maybe $80 unless the server can hold up to 64 people, there’s hardly enough revenue.

Please no

[Edible Coal]

6 hours ago, Balter said:

I got it Klei should make a premium server where only individuals who pay a monthly subscription can join like say $19.99 this should be enough for them to officially fund a staff to check monitor the server around the clock. If this is really that important for you people then a payment for the service is agreeable on both sides. Simply put if you want Klei to keep track of your world 24/7 instead of focusing on game development just pay them.

 

 

 

edit: eh maybe $80 unless the server can hold up to 64 people, there’s hardly enough revenue.

is this /srs or /j

[Gashzer]

7 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

I have literally never seen this, not even once. I'm not accusing you of making it up because it's technically possible, but it must be ridiculously uncommon. 

Something that probably happens less than a percent of a percent of the time is not a reason to delete the best defense against griefers Klei servers have (votekicks). If anything, they need to make votekicks last longer than they do, since the 10 or so minutes they last just incentivizes a griefer rejoining if they're determined. Up it to an hour at least.

It will be less uncommon if the voting system becomes better.

The best defence against griefers is making it so the terrarium/pearls pearl is visible at all times on the map, making absolutely everything renewable, and if something like a pig house or beefalo become completely extinct then the world regen works overtime to regen them faster until a base amount has been reached. Grass tufts and saplings regen, stalagmites regen, everything! etc etc...

The mods that cause autokicks using "ban lists" that klei doesn't approve on or moderate are forms of griefing as well. I've witnessed people with friends boot random people just to make room for their other friends, this is griefing. 

Removing votes will reduce griefing overall and if absolutely everything properly regens then it doesn't matter if a lone griefer burns a base, gets bored and leaves, you can rebuild a base. As long as things like stalagmites regen fastest for more fossils, mini chess pieces drop more often from tumbleweeds for shadow chesspiece boss sketches. All unique single items are visible at all times. Then a griefer can't harm world progression all that much.

Edit: all these changes would also act as QOL for solo worlds as well so it won't be a waste of time like making moderation for just the klei servers

[Tranoze]

12 hours ago, Gashzer said:

the control freaks

12 hours ago, Gashzer said:

using afk mods

12 hours ago, Gashzer said:

take over Klei servers

None of them are related.

There are control freaks that doesnt use afk mods. There are control freaks doesnt take over klei server.
Just because a klei server last long doesnt mean they use afk mods. People have reach day 6000+ before afk mods even invented.
Just because you dont agree with someone's playstyle (long run world play style vs short speed run style, or even some control freaks) doesn't mean they are griefers.
When there are full 12 people play in klei server, doesnt mean they take over klei server. If they dont want to play along with someone, they are allowed to kick them out for their better game play experiences.

Ofcourse there are cases where one person use multiple account and auto kick anyone new come in. Which is griefer.
I afk to 10000 days, but the server was going on for about 4500 days before i come, back in 2020.

When a klei server last to days 200~400+ ofcourse everything will be harder for newbies, and i do agree everything should be renewable so long run server have more attractive resources for newcomers.

1 hour ago, Gashzer said:

It will be less uncommon if the voting system becomes better.

I think voting system should require like 80~90% agree instead of 50% agree right now. Stuff like roll back/kick/regen really need high majority of the vote instead of just above half.

1 hour ago, Gashzer said:

that klei doesn't approve on

Do you have anything/evidences say klei approves or not approve on anything? Else klei woulda ban my mod and bunch of other mods years ago.

[Gashzer]

6 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

None of them are related.

Well the control freaks on the catcoon server used afk mods/setups to allow permanent voting control, they used mods to detect when people equip torches, dropped or pick up backpacks, or attack volt goats/beefalos. So clearly they are very related...

You know what enabled these people to force control over the catcoon server? It wasn't the afk mods or detect torch mod. It was the good old voting system. A voting system that doesn't need anymore power given to it.

The klei servers shouldn't appeal to any single person or group of people's playstyle. But appealing to a longer form of playstyle is much more toxic than appealing to shorter playstyle because people begin to think after 400days of playing on a klei server that stuff is "theirs", this is my base, no no this is the setup we have for this boss dont fight it that way, this is the way we do things here. When in reality I have a right to join a 400day server an raid all the resources I want because no one owns anything on a klei server. 

The less power Klei gives us over the klei pubs the better. I really hope they give world regen a overhaul of QoL updates then strip the voting system away. The klei pubs would be better off.

[HansimUnglueck]

Playing on public servers has become very unpleasant over the years. Constant server crashes because of either lagging caused by too many spiders, moon stomr/hail or other shenanigans or simply game breaking exploits using Willow or other characters. It's impossible to maintain a stable server for any amount of time, if a griefer decides to join a public server, it is doomed the second he spawns and interacts either with console or certain items/structures. Just yesterday there has been a group of dedicated griefers crashing most public servers after another but Klei is doing nothing about it. Server save files would easily fix this again. If I remember correctly, these save files had been in place back then and did prevent a lot of things going wrong.

Why not simply bring them back then?

[Gashzer]

2 minutes ago, HansimUnglueck said:

Why not simply bring them back then?

Wagstaff the White -  "Don't tempt me, Kleido. I dare not take it. Not even to keep the servers safe. Understand Kleido, I would use these server save files from a desire to do good. But through me, it would wield a power too great and terrible to imagine."

33 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Do you have anything/evidences say klei approves or not approve on anything? Else klei woulda ban my mod and bunch of other mods years ago.

The fact klei servers now reset after crashing/updates means that Klei does not approve of their servers becoming 4000days long with control freaks using bots/mods to maintain full control. Which is a massive win for common sense.

I personally use a client side moggles/map reveal mod which is 100% a cheat, I've posted it on these forums and it's still up and running. This proves that it is way too much work for them to start moderating mods. I'm sure they would ban the mod i use and yours ... if they had the resources to.

Tbh Klei is struggling enough to pump out content and skilltrees, I would be shocked if they waste time on klei pubs. And if they do waste time atleast make it applicable QoL for all servers.

Let's say Klei does implement server saves to prevent crashing/update resets. All these afk mods, bots and setups will become relevant again and Klei has just given these hardcore griefers exactly what they want. Which is more control.

[Tranoze]

24 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

It wasn't the afk mods or detect torch mod. It was the good old voting system.

This i agree. 

25 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

appealing to a longer form of playstyle is much more toxic than appealing to shorter playstyle

This i disagree. As a survival game, players have, and lots of them will dream for the survival to be as long as possible. It is the core of DST.

If it was a rpg game, where defeat the final boss was the final goal, speed run and short play style will be more common.
Compare that to tetris, you ll see the dream is to last as long as possible.

[Gashzer]

1 minute ago, Tranoze said:

This i disagree. As a survival game, players have, and lots of them will dream for the survival to be as long as possible. It is the core of DST.

If it was a rpg game, where defeat the final boss was the final goal, speed run and short play style will be more common.
Compare that to tetris, you ll see the dream is to last as long as possible.

That's ok, remove the voting system and then allow server saves to prevent crash wipes. Problem solved, no more control freak griefing (which is the worst kind of griefing in my opinion) and no more server crash or majority vote reset griefing.

This way griefers burning bases is just another ingame survival aspect to navigate around. (After klei fixes world regens to make every item reasonably renewable ofc)

[HansimUnglueck]

38 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

The fact klei servers now reset after crashing/updates means that Klei does not approve of their servers becoming 4000days long with control freaks using bots/mods to maintain full control. Which is a massive win for common sense.

Yeah, just make the experience for everyone misserable cause a small group of people is organizing themselves to play. Let's grief and crash servers, it's totally fine if WE do it. Cheks out. Have a day.