Klei needs to stop trying to turn Don’t Starve into Terraria

[Edible Coal]

2 minutes ago, Anis5240 said:

I only have one thing to say anyway: this game is NOT boss simulator #7940 yet Klei did it anyway. Like, I don't know bout y'all but if a boss is the highlight of the update then it's just bad????? And god knows how bloated the items in this game are, which are mostly left unused.

it seems that everyone likes fighting things, so they recently seem to just add more and more things to fight ?

[arubaro]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

 

The thing is dst isn't just a sandbox it's a multiplayer survival game and because of that balance is important to avoid lopsided difficulties and ruining the multiplayer experience. You can't have a huge gap between characters without causing problems that only really works for a single player game.

Agree. Maxwell is really problematic in multiplayer...

Also the "this is a sandbox, there is no need for balance " is such a non sense argument in any scenario... if balance isnt needed they can add mobs with 10 hp and weapons made of sticks dealing +100 damage... or how boring are 90% of mod characters and some of the vanilla ones

[RozeMeteor]

mind in telling me what modded characters you find fun or balanced to play ? i normally don't see that topic being discussed much.

[Theukon-dos]

Want to know what I'd say the worst part of this shift in direction is? 90% of what it's trying to acomplish could be achived by just adding some form of boss scaling.

 

Yes, combat characters where used disproportionally more often than non-combat characters. But that's because DST was balanced around multiplayer by giving everything massively inflated HP values. So ofcourse the characters with innate damage multipliers who can offset this would be more popular. If there was an option in world settings to just- give everything less HP and make it more in-line with enemy health in the original Don't Starve, then there would genuinly be no need to do any of this malarky related to rifts and skill trees.

[Milordo]

15 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

Want to know what I'd say the worst part of this shift in direction is? 90% of what it's trying to acomplish could be achived by just adding some form of boss scaling.

[00petar00]

3 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

The thing is dst isn't just a sandbox it's a multiplayer survival game and because of that balance is important to avoid lopsided difficulties and ruining the multiplayer experience. You can't have a huge gap between characters without causing problems that only really works for a single player game.

2 hours ago, arubaro said:

Also the "this is a sandbox, there is no need for balance " is such a non sense argument in any scenario... if balance isnt needed they can add mobs with 10 hp and weapons made of sticks dealing +100 damage... or how boring are 90% of mod characters and some of the vanilla ones

DST difficulty in multiplayer is already too easy and nothing can be done to change it to match single player gameplay besides adding scaling that so many people don't want to see.

I don't understand how you can measure difficulty and why balance seems important to you, no matter which character is picked if you have 4-6 players they can all pick Wes and kill all bosses with weak weapons and armor. If they pick average characters and get decent weapons bosses are melted without being able to use abilities.

I know DST isn't all about bosses but survival is also much easier with more people and everything on surface and cave worlds can be gathered at same time from ruins, lunar and everything you may need while another player stays and builds a base, everything can be done within first few game days.

Arubaro brings a good point, a lot of modded characters are overpowered so klei should keep Maxwell as is and make another two characters just as strong because it shows that it is what players want, If they didn't there wouldn't be so many modded characters.

 

 

[NPCMaxwell]

37 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

Want to know what I'd say the worst part of this shift in direction is? 90% of what it's trying to acomplish could be achived by just adding some form of boss scaling.

 

Yes, combat characters where used disproportionally more often than non-combat characters. But that's because DST was balanced around multiplayer by giving everything massively inflated HP values. So ofcourse the characters with innate damage multipliers who can offset this would be more popular. If there was an option in world settings to just- give everything less HP and make it more in-line with enemy health in the original Don't Starve, then there would genuinly be no need to do any of this malarky related to rifts and skill trees.

this seriously. I avoid combat completely in DST, only using mob-on-mob wars to get mob droppings.

(while in singleplayer DS I do some combat when necessary when playing as Maxwell because his shadows just mimic his behaviour. If they worked like in DST I would avoid combat as much as I do when playing as Wilson or as Wagstaff)

Maybe if the HPs could be scaled I may try combat and maybe even have /fun/ trying it out (also trying out Maxwell‘s other spells not just his shadowworkers)

[Ohan]

40 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

a lot of modded characters are overpowered so klei should keep Maxwell as is and make another two characters just as strong because it shows that it is what players want, If they didn't there wouldn't be so many modded characters.

Ur scaring me.. 

[arubaro]

47 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

DST difficulty in multiplayer is already too easy and nothing can be done to change it to match single player gameplay besides adding scaling that so many people don't want to see.

I don't understand how you can measure difficulty and why balance seems important to you, no matter which character is picked if you have 4-6 players they can all pick Wes and kill all bosses with weak weapons and armor. If they pick average characters and get decent weapons bosses are melted without being able to use abilities.

I know DST isn't all about bosses but survival is also much easier with more people and everything on surface and cave worlds can be gathered at same time from ruins, lunar and everything you may need while another player stays and builds a base, everything can be done within first few game days.

Arubaro brings a good point, a lot of modded characters are overpowered so klei should keep Maxwell as is and make another two characters just as strong because it shows that it is what players want, If they didn't there wouldn't be so many modded characters.

 

 

-.- klei are clearly better designers than a teenager with weird kinks creating op characters that make having health bar irrelevant..

You dont need to be 4 or 6 players to see how overpowered characters ruins the game experience for those who like actively play videogames.

As an example i picked maxwell to play with 2 friends that have less than 20h of playtime. I needed to change character because the game was so damn boring even for those new player  when i wasnt using half of max potential power (i even were using spear and log suit instead of shadow gear) 

To me is ridiculous to wish such kind of gameplay. At that point klei should add godmode and x10 damage boost in the world settings if there are trully a big enough portion of players who dont want to play videogames or that get frustrated when a videogame ask for a minimum of effort so this kind of suggestion can stop from the same loud minority 

[Mysterious box]

55 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

DST difficulty in multiplayer is already too easy and nothing can be done to change it to match single player gameplay besides adding scaling that so many people don't want to see.

I don't understand how you can measure difficulty and why balance seems important to you, no matter which character is picked if you have 4-6 players they can all pick Wes and kill all bosses with weak weapons and armor. If they pick average characters and get decent weapons bosses are melted without being able to use abilities.

I know DST isn't all about bosses but survival is also much easier with more people and everything on surface and cave worlds can be gathered at same time from ruins, lunar and everything you may need while another player stays and builds a base, everything can be done within first few game days.

Arubaro brings a good point, a lot of modded characters are overpowered so klei should keep Maxwell as is and make another two characters just as strong because it shows that it is what players want, If they didn't there wouldn't be so many modded characters.

 

 

Balance isn't all about combat survival is included in that as well as the player to player experience.  For a multiplayer game you can't just go oh well it's a sandbox if it negatively impacts the multiplayer experience.

4 hours ago, grm9 said:

all other buffs compensated no speed boost for fighting and we pretty much got it back for not fighting since pre rework wolfgang's speed boost also effectively was 5% or 10% for not fighting if taking amount of time that you wasted on getting x3 food and eating it into account

That's not really the point though the change was not reverted which is what I said he got compensated sure though.

[grm9]

12 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

That's not really the point though the change was not reverted which is what I said he got compensated sure though

the point's that new wolfgang's better in comparison to old wolfgang at doing every thing since you still get a 10% speed boost for not fighting and doing an extra hit or 2 after every boss attack got compensated through always having a x2 damage multiplier and not needing to eat when fighting

[Echsrick]

7 hours ago, W0l0l0 said:

 

The "A New Reign" gameplay trailer literally shows players fighting enraged Dragonfly,

and you forgetting that they died instandly right?

3 hours ago, Anis5240 said:

I only have one thing to say anyway: this game is NOT boss simulator #7940 yet Klei did it anyway. Like, I don't know bout y'all but if a boss is the highlight of the update then it's just bad????? And god knows how bloated the items in this game are, which are mostly left unused.

the fact they could not just do the "cave update" they just HAD to add a boss to it for some reasons, they HAD to make a boss version of the rabbit king...like they HAD to add more combat related stuff....why? i dont know i dont like, lets see what not combat stuff it realy added

cave bridges wich are....fine

the very obscure way to spawn rabbit king, if he dont go evil mode anyways....with his...items i guess....

ahm.....uh.....rift items? i dont know you do have to do plenty of killing to get those.....ahm......

what else was there?

[Bumber64]

55 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

and you forgetting that they died instandly right?

Devs not using c_godmode issue.

[Jakepeng99]

4 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Arubaro brings a good point, a lot of modded characters are overpowered so klei should keep Maxwell as is and make another two characters just as strong because it shows that it is what players want, If they didn't there wouldn't be so many modded characters.

 

Pretty sure most are op because of the Mary Sue effect. Or they dont care much about balance and just want to make a character for fun.

[The Automaton]

I agree with some of the people here; I feel like DST has become a bit boring due to OP mechanics and the lack of difficulty as you progress into the late game. I understand it's fun when you can easily defeat bosses, and even when you need to put effort into some "cheeses", but after a while, that makes the experience feel a bit bland. I believe it's more enjoyable when you have to develop better skills to overcome the game’s challenges. However, that's just my opinion, and I may be wrong in some aspects.

I feel that the best way to refresh a character is by making the playthrough more interesting and interactive, not easier... (just my opinion)

[W0l0l0]

On 10/13/2024 at 10:55 AM, 00petar00 said:

This wouldn't be happening and it isn't powercreep because lureplant boss blocking existed before all the skill trees and other additions that made game much easier.

Nerfs to characters won't happen, even the "nerf" to wolfgang was uncalled for and reverted.

There's no reason for DST to not have powerful characters and weak characters so you can choose the way you like to play the game, I want to play strong character so why should it balanced according to your logic? If you like to game to be more difficult play Wes.

This is a sandbox game and balance isn't important, I'd go out of my way to say that characters being unbalanced is better for the game because anyone can play the way they want.

This is a very loaded reply that I don't want to fully address as I think it'll take us off topic. I'll just say that I think balance is important because I don't think players should be feeling punished for playing a certain way thats very clearly weaker than another. In addition, parts of the game are closed off if they're poorly balanced. Misery Toadstool, for instance. Theres other things such as planar mechanics that I blame the powerceep for. I'm not saying balance is critical, but to say its completely irrelevant is a fallacy in my opinion.

On 10/13/2024 at 10:46 AM, grm9 said:

i think that people should just start trying stuff on their own instead of asking the devs to force them to do that because other people might not want to get forced into doing that and their fun'd get ruined

Might be worth doing some polls, but if I'm honest I don't think people will do. Klei's experimented with player engagement and they know more about it than we do. I'll say that forcing things sounds bad, but a lot of Don't Starve's charm comes from things like hounds, seasons, and Deerclops.

What my overall point in my reply is that Klei's vision for this game may involve forcing us to do things, but that's why many of us are playing the game to begin with.

 

18 hours ago, Echsrick said:

and you forgetting that they died instandly right?

Yeah, they were clearly not prepared for the fight, but the topic was whether Enraged Dragonfly is intended as a fight, which I believe the trailer shows it to be. By comparison, Enraged Klaus hasn't been shown in a trailer.

[cropo]

38 minutes ago, W0l0l0 said:

Yeah, they were clearly not prepared for the fight, but the topic was whether Enraged Dragonfly is intended as a fight, which I believe the trailer shows it to be.

Trailers show players fighting without armor, Warly using an obsidian machete to fight, Wilson wearing a backpack and armor at the same time and a bunch of other goofy and whacky things that you would not see a sane player doing in normal gameplay. Not sure if this is the angle to infer Klei's intentions on.

Also, you must really like the Dragonfly fight and that's really great, but man if the fight actually went the way you seem to want it, it would be so soul-crushingly depressing to have to actually fight her. At least in Singleplayer you could get Obsidian armor and facetank her or blow her up with gunpowder, but having to deal with an HP sponge that has a near frame-perfect attack, constant minion annoyance, and a massive AOE spam buttslam that does ludicrous amounts of damage with no real indication of how you're supposed to counter it would just really sour the gameplay experience for a lot of people.

I think it's more important to focus on why something is difficult rather than on whether or not it simply is difficult, and I think that's the biggest disagreement everyone is having here.

[cameron8800]

On 10/13/2024 at 8:25 AM, Edible Coal said:

it seems that everyone likes fighting things, so they recently seem to just add more and more things to fight ?

I’d much rather get new daily threats and survival elements. When was the last time a new non-boss mob was added?

[W0l0l0]

5 hours ago, cropo said:

Trailers show players fighting without armor, Warly using an obsidian machete to fight, Wilson wearing a backpack and armor at the same time and a bunch of other goofy and whacky things that you would not see a sane player doing in normal gameplay. Not sure if this is the angle to infer Klei's intentions on.

I think it's reasonable to say that Klei was showing the Enraged Dragonfly as a challenge for players to advertise their game. I don't think they'd show something that isn't intended to be interacted with. Thats all I'm saying. Not sure why other messages are being interpreted here.

5 hours ago, cropo said:

Also, you must really like the Dragonfly fight and that's really great, but man if the fight actually went the way you seem to want it, it would be so soul-crushingly depressing to have to actually fight her. At least in Singleplayer you could get Obsidian armor and facetank her or blow her up with gunpowder, but having to deal with an HP sponge that has a near frame-perfect attack, constant minion annoyance, and a massive AOE spam buttslam that does ludicrous amounts of damage with no real indication of how you're supposed to counter it would just really sour the gameplay experience for a lot of people.

Dragonfly in Don't Starve Together is very much different. In Don't Starve Together she spends usually less than 30 seconds enraged, and often she doesn't enrage at all. That's probably why I don't mind Don't Starve Together's dragonfly. Not to say I actually disagree with you here, the fight is hard, I wish they made it a bit easier. I personally still find it easier than Bee Queen though.

[Waywarbler]

9 hours ago, cameron8800 said:

I’d much rather get new daily threats and survival elements. When was the last time a new non-boss mob was added?

The most recent update? Though, if you mean pre-rift, then that just leaves the Lurking Nightmare and the Benevolent Rabbit King (technically he's just a trader; the wrathful king is the boss :P) and his guards.

[Echsrick]

16 minutes ago, Waywarbler said:

The most recent update? Though, if you mean pre-rift, then that just leaves the Lurking Nightmare and the Benevolent Rabbit King (technically he's just a trader; the wrathful king is the boss :P) and his guards.

i feel like it was more so a say of no boss at all that was part of the update, wich cave sure was not

[Buhehehehe oink]

On 10/13/2024 at 1:36 AM, W0l0l0 said:

Dragonfly is so much more interesting with enraged form

Fire damage is too strong to fight against. Only Willow can do it cause she got innate fire immunity. Or if people fight it again after they craft the anti-fire armor they got from the first kill, but that is more for one-time fun rather than practical so you can't really force people to do that. If dfly doesn't break structure with its stomp, then Klei could utilize the thermo firepit as something to counter the fire damage. Or a polar star. Or an ice amulet. Enraged form really isn't that interesting, cause most if not all the time it is more like dfly just busted out undodgeable damage to cheese you kiting it. 

[grm9]

15 minutes ago, Buhehehehe oink said:

Fire damage is too strong to fight against. Only Willow can do it cause she got innate fire immunity. Or if people fight it again after they craft the anti-fire armor they got from the first kill, but that is more for one-time fun rather than practical so you can't really force people to do that. If dfly doesn't break structure with its stomp, then Klei could utilize the thermo firepit as something to counter the fire damage. Or a polar star. Or an ice amulet. Enraged form really isn't that interesting, cause most if not all the time it is more like dfly just busted out undodgeable damage to cheese you kiting it

it only deals like 3 unavoidable fire damage through attacking and you can stun it for getting the fire immunity armor for a part of the 1st fight if you want to, you don't need to stand in the range that things can passively take fire damage from it in for attacking it if you meant that

[Buhehehehe oink]

On 10/14/2024 at 8:27 AM, The Automaton said:

I agree with some of the people here; I feel like DST has become a bit boring due to OP mechanics and the lack of difficulty as you progress into the late game. I understand it's fun when you can easily defeat bosses, and even when you need to put effort into some "cheeses", but after a while, that makes the experience feel a bit bland. I believe it's more enjoyable when you have to develop better skills to overcome the game’s challenges. However, that's just my opinion, and I may be wrong in some aspects.

I feel that the best way to refresh a character is by making the playthrough more interesting and interactive, not easier... (just my opinion)

The difficulty of the game is based on your knowledge of the game. If they add more interesting and interactive things, you will just put it in your head and start the same comment again cause you forgot those are parts they added due to your complaints. Better skills? Yeah that is gonna be the next meta to defeat the certain boss it is designed for and you are gonna complain about the meta again.

I got killed instantly by the stupid ickers the other day because I stopped for a single frame before realizing it was gonna fall on me. It instantly killed me(removing my armor and stole the whole 150hp). If this wasn't Don't Starve 'Together' that would be a game over from a late game mechanic. And the piece of **** giant worm that randomly spawns too, fun boss but it ain't fun when that means you can't base in cave anymore. There is a different between well done difficulty and inconvenience that just piss people off. 

That said, it doesn't really matter. You are bored because the game is out of fun stuff to give you. Klei made a mistake by making this a live service game, now they have to do constant updates that will sate your desire for new stuff to play with. You gotta accept that until the next update, the game basically ran out of things to interest you, because you already knew all of them.

10 minutes ago, grm9 said:

it only deals like 3 unavoidable fire damage through attacking and you can stun it for getting the fire immunity armor for a part of the 1st fight if you want to, you don't need to stand in the range that things can passively take fire damage from it in for attacking it if you meant that

Dfly constantly tries to get right next to you, it is faster than you, has an almost undodge-able attack, sounds as if you want everyone to be a sweaty like you to fight dfly. Normal players will just put on a bunch of marble armor and tank it instead of bothering with all that. Having to fight dfly again and again but not the whole fight, just to farm a certain material that makes you immune to one phase of that fight, is kinda inconvenient too. Ngl it does sound kinda reasonable, but at least there should be an indicator for how much is enough for a scale. I do like the idea of that because it doesn't take much time, but I also think Klei would have to add some new stuff to encourage that as part of the fight. And in the end, just running around and waiting for that phase to cool down is much easier than all of that.

[Evelo]

18 hours ago, cropo said:

Wilson wearing a backpack and armor at the same time

Outside of art, is this ever seen in a gameplay trailer? I'd like a source please.