Klei needs to stop trying to turn Don’t Starve into Terraria

[cameron8800]

Klei should be focusing more in survival and base building and potential interactions in the world rather than just making more and more bosses. 
 

The game needs more interesting things to do beyond just grinding for materials to kill bosses or sitting around waiting for a particular boss’s spawning time. 
 

There also needs to be more player choice. It really is a shame that Klei seems dedicated to forcing players to play the one way they decided was the “right” way. Nearly every other developer praises their players for finding unique solutions that they never considered. Patching Cheese just means being anti-fun. Exploiting gameplay mechanics that have existed for nearly a decade is not cheating so please don’t tell me that I might as well just use console commands to spawn in items. Klei has an awful track record of punishing creativity. 
 

But player choice comes in more forms than the ability to cheese bosses. There need to be more viable options for solving problems. It feels like klei wants to force players into playing “The Meta”

[Gashzer]

Developers don't praise people exploiting badly wrote code in their games. They patch them.

Don't use the word cheese, call them what they are, bugs. You are using unintended bugs to kill bosses. Cheese is making 40 bunnymen to kill bee queen, this isn't a bug, it's just massive overprep of a intended mechanic to steamroll a boss.

Which is completely different to exploiting a bug like for example the old lureplant exploit to block AFW. This was a bug and got patched.

Klei arnt removing cheese at all, they are fixing their game which should be praised not ridiculed.

Honestly klei hasn't done enough to boost the late game survival experience just yet. Rift content just isn't scratching that itch. We need a new area to unlock after both rifts are opened, we need more exploration.

DST shouldn't be about megabasing and if it is about megabasing. Why havnt we got a legitimate creative mode yet klei? 

[arubaro]

Totally agree. The industry doesnt need the 9999999th "survival" game that is more lame rpg than survival 

Edit. About fixing stuff. There is a thin like between giving freedom and making interacting with content pointless.

The biggest problem about choices is that, despite the game having a lot mechanics and room for a lot more, we basically fight every single fight with melee weapon and armor. Items like ice staffs, fire staffs, etc are really bad

Also, certain players seems to hate using more than 1 item during fights for some reason

[cameron8800]

13 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Developers don't praise people exploiting badly wrote code in their games. They patch them.

Don't use the word cheese, call them what they are, bugs. You are using unintended bugs to kill bosses. Cheese is making 40 bunnymen to kill bee queen, this isn't a bug, it's just massive overprep of a intended mechanic to steamroll a boss.

Which is completely different to exploiting a bug like for example the old lureplant exploit to block AFW. This was a bug and got patched.

Klei arnt removing cheese at all, they are fixing their game which should be praised not ridiculed.

Honestly klei hasn't done enough to boost the late game survival experience just yet. Rift content just isn't scratching that itch. We need a new area to unlock after both rifts are opened, we need more exploration.

DST shouldn't be about megabasing and if it is about megabasing. Why havnt we got a legitimate creative mode yet klei? 

Why do you feel the need to dictate how others play the game?

 

I’d argue that if it enhances the gameplay for some people then it shouldn’t be removed. Nothing anyone talks about when talking about cheese affects anyone that chooses not to do it. My choice to use boats to farm shadow pieces has absolutely no affect on your ability to play the game without doing so. 

[arubaro]

14 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Developers don't praise people exploiting badly wrote code in their games. They patch them.

Don't use the word cheese, call them what they are, bugs. You are using unintended bugs to kill bosses. Cheese is making 40 bunnymen to kill bee queen, this isn't a bug, it's just massive overprep of a intended mechanic to steamroll a boss.

Which is completely different to exploiting a bug like for example the old lureplant exploit to block AFW. This was a bug and got patched.

Klei arnt removing cheese at all, they are fixing their game which should be praised not ridiculed.

Honestly klei hasn't done enough to boost the late game survival experience just yet. Rift content just isn't scratching that itch. We need a new area to unlock after both rifts are opened, we need more exploration.

DST shouldn't be about megabasing and if it is about megabasing. Why havnt we got a legitimate creative mode yet klei? 

Ye, better ask for non sense nerfs

[Gashzer]

7 minutes ago, cameron8800 said:

Why do you feel the need to dictate how others play the game?

Its more like how would any sane person expect Klei to just leave their game full of bugs?

[cameron8800]

Because they aren’t bugs. If it requires hours of intentional prep and game play in order to ever witness a “bug” then it’s not a bug. A bug causes the game to crash. Spending forty minutes to set up a farm to harvest a resources by exploiting the game mechanics is not a bug. 

[Gashzer]

1 minute ago, cameron8800 said:

Because they aren’t bugs. If it requires hours of intentional prep and game play in order to ever witness a “bug” then it’s not a bug. A bug causes the game to crash. Spending forty minutes to set up a farm to harvest a resources by exploiting the game mechanics is not a bug. 

100% is still a bug.

We should be pushing klei to release a creative mode toggle/server vote so you don't have to farm resources using bugs anymore. Makes alot more sense to skip the middle man of resource collecting and get straight into megabasing.

Also what do you expect Klei to do here? "Oh sorry Cameron let us roll back all them updates and let all that time go to waste fixing bugs so you can exploit our game again to kill bosses.."

[cameron8800]

2 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

100% is still a bug.

We should be pushing klei to release a creative mode toggle/server vote so you don't have to farm resources using bugs anymore. Makes alot more sense to skip the middle man of resource collecting and get straight into megabasing.

Also what do you expect Klei to do here? "Oh sorry Cameron let us roll back all them updates and let all that time go to waste fixing bugs so you can exploit our game again to kill bosses.."

Im expecting them to stop taking away player freedom to play the game the way they choose. Im still confused about why you care about how other people play the game. It feels like just a troll position to take. It has absolutely no bearing on your experience and other people like it, so why ban it? Should we ban everything you don’t like? Should we ban your least favorite characters? Should we remove the mechanics you don’t like?

Also spending an hour setting up a cheese to beat a boss is completely different than just spawning in the loot and it’s wildly disingenuous of you to say that they are comparable at all. 

[Gashzer]

3 minutes ago, cameron8800 said:

Im expecting them to stop taking away player freedom to play the game the way they choose. Im still confused about why you care about how other people play the game. It feels like just a troll position to take. It has absolutely no bearing on your experience and other people like it, so why ban it? Should we ban everything you don’t like? Should we ban your least favorite characters? Should we remove the mechanics you don’t like?

Also spending an hour setting up a cheese to beat a boss is completely different than just spawning in the loot and it’s wildly disingenuous of you to say that they are comparable at all. 

Its not about me, i have no power here, its clearly Klei that doesn't like having a buggy game hence the fixes 

And what freedom? The freedom to not fight bosses? The freedom to not play the game but use slightly different variations of the same old pathfinding exploit for different bosses? 

Aye klei reintroduce the lureplant exploit and make it work for all bosses, i want the freedom to not need to play your game anymore to gain all of the rewards.

[Szczuku]

Agree with "Too many bosses and too much focus on combat in a SURVIVAL game"

Completely disagree with "Fixing bugs and exploits is bad"

[cameron8800]

9 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Its not about me, i have no power here, its clearly Klei that doesn't like having a buggy game hence the fixes 

And what freedom? The freedom to not fight bosses? The freedom to not play the game but use slightly different variations of the same old pathfinding exploit for different bosses? 

Aye klei reintroduce the lureplant exploit and make it work for all bosses, i want the freedom to not need to play your game anymore to gain all of the rewards.

Hey brother no one is forcing you to do it. I really don’t think you understand that. You don’t HAVE to use cheese. No one wants to make you play my way. But you want to make me and other people play your way. 

[Gashzer]

28 minutes ago, cameron8800 said:

Hey brother no one is forcing you to do it. I really don’t think you understand that. You don’t HAVE to use cheese. No one wants to make you play my way. But you want to make me and other people play your way. 

Hey brother. Klei doesn't want you to use bugs not me 

I use cheese all the time. I just don't use bugs.

[Ohan]

They should try to turn it into fortnite instead

[NoodlemanNed]

2 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Its more like how would any sane person expect Klei to just leave their game full of bugs?

because certain bugs are good for the game. Yes they are unintended and look weird, but that doesnt mean theres anything wrong with keeping them in the game. The developers are not omniscient, sometimes good things are created by complete chance. It is important to consider whether a bug is actually good for the game before immediately dismissing it, it can lead to the game becoming far better than anyone initially thought it could be.

[DegenerateFurry]

3 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Developers don't praise people exploiting badly wrote code in their games. They patch them.

Don't use the word cheese, call them what they are, bugs. You are using unintended bugs to kill bosses. Cheese is making 40 bunnymen to kill bee queen, this isn't a bug, it's just massive overprep of a intended mechanic to steamroll a boss.

Which is completely different to exploiting a bug like for example the old lureplant exploit to block AFW. This was a bug and got patched.

Klei arnt removing cheese at all, they are fixing their game which should be praised not ridiculed.

Honestly klei hasn't done enough to boost the late game survival experience just yet. Rift content just isn't scratching that itch. We need a new area to unlock after both rifts are opened, we need more exploration.

DST shouldn't be about megabasing and if it is about megabasing. Why havnt we got a legitimate creative mode yet klei? 

This gets a no from me, chief. What's called "cheese" is subjective, as I've gone to great lengths to demonstrate in other threads.

More importantly, there's the core of your argument: "they're fixing bugs and that's good". This is not a universal truth like you seem to believe it to be. Aside from things like pig and gobbler farms that abuse mob pathfinding and are accepted by the devs as legit, there are also ascended bugs in other games.
The classic example is rocket jumping: originally unintended by the developers of Doom and Quake. By your logic, they should've patched it out. However, because they did the smart thing and analyzed whether the bug was bringing more or less enjoyment to players, they kept it in, and now rocket jumping is a core mechanic in many video games that developers go out of their way to implement. What does this prove beyond a shadow of a doubt? It proves that some bugs are good and only add to the game. 

There are also more recent examples.

In Team Fortress 2, the Demoman character can use a shield weapon to charge at high speeds. Players discovered that charging, especially while turning, against certain sloped map geometry will cause them to fly through the air quickly. What did Valve do? Did they patch that out? No. Instead, when they made a melee-only mode where those shields are very useful, they actually put a specific sloped rock on the map that's very easy to launch yourself into the enemy base with. They later added a shield that gives you full turning control (making it way easier to use for that on any map).

In DOOM: Eternal, the Super Shotgun's Meat Hook was intended to let you grapple directly towards demons, but players discovered they could strafe and turn while grappling to gain substantial amounts of momentum, which gave them much more freedom of aerial movement. Though unintended, this was later accepted officially by the developers when they added platforming challenges that require you to do it, once again due to them realizing that it's something players enjoy. 

 

4 hours ago, cameron8800 said:

Klei should be focusing more in survival and base building and potential interactions in the world rather than just making more and more bosses. 
 

The game needs more interesting things to do beyond just grinding for materials to kill bosses or sitting around waiting for a particular boss’s spawning time. 
 

There also needs to be more player choice. It really is a shame that Klei seems dedicated to forcing players to play the one way they decided was the “right” way. Nearly every other developer praises their players for finding unique solutions that they never considered. Patching Cheese just means being anti-fun. Exploiting gameplay mechanics that have existed for nearly a decade is not cheating so please don’t tell me that I might as well just use console commands to spawn in items. Klei has an awful track record of punishing creativity. 
 

But player choice comes in more forms than the ability to cheese bosses. There need to be more viable options for solving problems. It feels like klei wants to force players into playing “The Meta”

I think I agree with all of this. While I do like killing bosses, there's a reason I've been playing with a mod that adds in Shipwrecked and Hamlet lately. The base game's overworld (and especially the caves) do feel like they could use more stuff to do, especially pre-rifts. 

The only thing I disagree with is Klei having an awful track record of punishing creativity. They've honestly been pretty good about it until recently? The first example I can think of where they punished creativity was removing the Lure Plant cheese, and they've gotten worse about it from there. It is a troubling trend that I would like to see fully reversed, though.

[NPCMaxwell]

I don‘t think about the cheese stuff much, but when it comes to bosses they are kind of uninteresting to me. I thought the giants from ROG were the perfect amount, no need to expand from there on (though AFW and CC are a nice addition character design wise)

[dst_lover]

9 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

 

In DOOM: Eternal, the Super Shotgun's Meat Hook was intended to let you grapple directly towards demons, but players discovered they could strafe and turn while grappling to gain substantial amounts of momentum, which gave them much more freedom of aerial movement. Though unintended, this was later accepted officially by the developers when they added platforming challenges that require you to do it, once again due to them realizing that it's something players enjoy. 

So you went the void walk to be a real legit item in the game or what or do you went it to be under the rollback button ? And you went the lure plant mechanic of blocking creatures to be a real item ? all of those are op and unbalanced for their cost what they are giving you is way more then what they cost of there is an item that give you the same affect of the void walk it should be locked post rift and it should be very costly the same thing with an item like the lure plant that can block creatures it should be post rift and very costly to use for what it gives you the ability to make a boss unable to attack or move is so op and should be locked 

[xDarkSoul18x]

1 hour ago, NoodlemanNed said:

because certain bugs are good for the game. Yes they are unintended and look weird, but that doesnt mean theres anything wrong with keeping them in the game. The developers are not omniscient, sometimes good things are created by complete chance. It is important to consider whether a bug is actually good for the game before immediately dismissing it, it can lead to the game becoming far better than anyone initially thought it could be.

Like how Mule Kick in Black Ops was a glitch but they drew inspiration from it and just made it a perk. Yes, I agree sometimes good things come from bugs.

My personal opinion is that if it is a "Critical" bug or exploit, yes fix it. Like if putting on a marble armor for some weird reason made The Ancient Fuelweaver never hit you, yeah fix it. If someone had to go out of their way to build a cave bridge, then add some pillars, void walk out the map, place a lure plant to exploit, ehh it's not something you are running into by chance it's an intentional exploit. Fix it sure but don't make it a priority. It's like piggy backing or grenade jumping in VERY specific locations in Halo games. They never patched them out because why? Like 99.99 of the players are going to decide "Hmm let me park a hog here, have my buddy stand there, jump on his back, sycn our jumps and toss a nade at an exact time at an exact location." Would you rather them focus on fixing that or adding new maps and modes? 

[DegenerateFurry]

45 minutes ago, dst_lover said:

So you went the void walk to be a real legit item in the game or what or do you went it to be under the rollback button ? And you went the lure plant mechanic of blocking creatures to be a real item ? all of those are op and unbalanced for their cost what they are giving you is way more then what they cost of there is an item that give you the same affect of the void walk it should be locked post rift and it should be very costly the same thing with an item like the lure plant that can block creatures it should be post rift and very costly to use for what it gives you the ability to make a boss unable to attack or move is so op and should be locked 

That's not what I said at all. I'm just saying that some bugs are so accepted that they even get implemented as features later on. It's to prove that bugs can be beneficial to a game, which means they aren't inherently bad, which means that patching them is not always the right move. Some should just be left in because they're not hurting anyone, and the Lure Plant cheese wasn't hurting anyone and should've been left in.

[paodocevoante1]

3 hours ago, cameron8800 said:

 Im still confused about why you care about how other people play the game. It feels like just a troll position to take. It has absolutely no bearing on your experience and other people like it, so why ban it?

 

I think it's because it's not cool for most players to play the game knowing that there is a buggy way to do it, for example, if while I tried to defeat Ancient Fuelweaver and I died 30 times, I would be sad and frustrated knowing that there is a broken way, it's like I'm trying for nothing when there is a totally broken method that would be a thousand times more quick and easy

[Maxil20]

I’m confused on how DST doesn’t give players player choice. Apart from the rift content (which was made because people wanted more endgame content), DST is extremely comparable to Terraria in terms of player choice. While the “final” bosses take time to reach, literally everything else is accessible from the start.

You want to go and setup a simple base in the first 20 days? You can do that! You want to rush the hardest area in the game and then afterwards go sailing to find the lunar and moon quay and then use those resources to build a souped up base in the first 20 days? You can do that!

While the bosses are the focal point for a good chunk of content, there is also nothing stopping you from needing to interact with them unless it’s the seasonal bosses (which are some of the easiest in the game) or specifically if you need an item from them. I didn’t bother fighting dragonfly until I had killed fuelweaver twice in my long term world because I simply didn’t feel any reason to deal with her that early on. The only exception I can think of is bosses that you need to kill to progress content, which is the only thing I can think of that you “have” to do to access the “harder” content.

 

[paodocevoante1]

8 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

That's not what I said at all. I'm just saying that some bugs are so accepted that they even get implemented as features later on. It's to prove that bugs can be beneficial to a game, which means they aren't inherently bad, which means that patching them is not always the right move. Some should just be left in because they're not hurting anyone, and the Lure Plant cheese wasn't hurting anyone and should've been left in.

What happened to Lureplant?

[DegenerateFurry]

25 minutes ago, paodocevoante1 said:

What happened to Lureplant?

It used to be possible to use a Lure Plant or spider den to make Ancient Fuelweaver get stuck. If you combined that with voidwalking in the right place, you'd be able to kill him without him fighting back. They made it so Fuelweaver instantly breaks those now, so you can't do that anymore, and they also got rid of voidwalking, so you can't do that anymore either.

[Evelo]

I always thought of the big 3. Minecraft, Terraria, and Don't Starve.

Minecraft focuses on the freedom to build whatever you want.

Terraria focuses on Combat and boss fights.

Don't Starve focuses on survival and pitting the player against the forces of nature.

so having DS shift toward combat and boss fighting is kind of sad to me.