Do you think shadow chess deserves like a crab king rework?

[Theukon-dos]

21 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

i guess its because some moon items need a special item you get from killing bosse...3 new ones that is....so not sure why not make like some new bosse on shadow side that give you the special something instead of redoin pices again and again

Yeah. To bad Klei didn't introduce a new boss in this update that, while fightable pre-rift, could have very easily gotten an upgraded version once shadow rifts where opened that dropped the new item necessary to craft these new post-rift items. 

 

Wait a second...

[Ridley]

I don't like this fight.

• The bishop always needs to go first because it gets way too powerful.
• It just feels awful getting hit at a 45 degree angle by the knight that clearly missed.
• Rook is by far the easiest final boss. 
• Minions panic in this fight but they would be mowed down by rook or bishop anyway. I don't see why they need to be more useless.
• The fight gets less interesting as more pieces are killed. The final part is mostly just holding f.

You also never want to attempt this fight without seeing a guide first, because the cost of failing is waiting another moon cycle unless you want to rollback.

Maybe they need some additional attacks and something being done about the new moon requirement. Would it be too far if the new moon requirement was only strict about first obtaining the chess sketches? Then you could rematch them sooner by paying some other cost or maybe exposing the statues to the ruins active phase?

[Gashzer]

2 hours ago, grm9 said:

what's the point of doing that? how does it existing negatively affect you? that's like asking to remove all characters except wes and wilson because you don't like that they're better in comparison to wilson if you're worried about other people potentially using cheese even though that won't affect you

Zelda tears of a kingdom and Botw got bug fixes while being single player games.

Why do you think these massively successful games got bugfixes even when players can choose not to use them?

Gonna answer that question, because good devs bug fix and their game's mechanics and gameplay standalone on the merit of the developers creative ability and hardwork.

If klei is relying on bugs for QoL for its DST players, what does that tell you about klei and the state of DST?

Are you happy with subpar quality?

[grm9]

17 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Zelda tears of a kingdom and Botw got bug fixes while being single player games

there's a difference between fixing a bug that's detrimental for the game e.g. some button only working half the time or some thing getting executed twice instead of once and removing a set up that devs didn't think about that'sn't a bug

17 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Why do you think these massively successful games got bugfixes even when players can choose not to use them?

because they can't, you some times can't choose not to use a bug or you might end up accidentally using it

17 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Gonna answer that question, because good devs bug fix and their game's mechanics and gameplay standalone on the merit of the developers creative ability and hardwork

so "they do that just because they do that and a bug making the game better's simply bad because idk"? what's the issue with not removing a bug that ended up making the game better?

17 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Are you happy with subpar quality?

it'sn't

17 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

If klei is relying on bugs for QoL for its DST players, what does that tell you about klei and the state of DST?

they'ren't relying on them and that doesn't tell much, there's no thing that's wrong with keeping a bug that ended up making the game better

45 minutes ago, Ridley said:

It just feels awful getting hit at a 45 degree angle by the knight that clearly missed

do you realise that practically all creatures attack through either a circle or a half circle?

46 minutes ago, Ridley said:

The bishop always needs to go first because it gets way too powerful

you can do t3 bishop when playing as wanda, wortox or wendy, got enough lazy explorer uses and think that that's worthwhile for you when in the situation that you're in or using boat hop for it to not stun you through the attack for you to get out of it after taking only a few hits

50 minutes ago, Ridley said:

You also never want to attempt this fight without seeing a guide first, because the cost of failing is waiting another moon cycle unless you want to rollback

who'd've thought that rolling back or making a separate world for experimenting's fine

you can also kill CC for forcing a new moon and you'd likely bring enough stuff for going through the fight without knowing any thing about it either way

51 minutes ago, Ridley said:

Maybe they need some additional attacks

simply adding more attacks to a boss doesn't make fighting it more fun, frost jaw got 3 attacks but fighting it's easy and boring

[Frosty_Mentos]

I feel like each one of the chess could have introduced some kind of blueprint for their main abilities they use as a weapon of sorts. Maybe a swarm attack that damages things around them, some warp ability upgrade for lazy explorer or having alternative to one to have a chomp ability with it, or a spring loaded shadow weapon where attacks are slow but long ranged and powerful, almost like suckerpunch that is a gun of sorts. Klei spoke forever ago about something of them having unique items dropped but we ended up with darksword, armor and lots of fuel with the heart.

[arubaro]

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

simply adding more attacks to a boss doesn't make fighting it more fun, frost jaw got 3 attacks but fighting it's easy and boring

That is your opinion...frostjaw is one of the best funnier for me. How seeing and kiting/tanking the same atack during 5 minutes can be fun and a dynamic fight being boring? Just because you cant use 4726263 cheese like in old bosses? Because you say frostjaw is easy but then what are shadow pieces? A hard fun masterpiece? They have the dumbest combat design in the entire franchise

[grm9]

6 minutes ago, arubaro said:

How seeing and kiting/tanking the same atack during 5 minutes can be fun and a dynamic fight being boring?

it'sn't, but at least figuring a strat out for doing that was fun, but there's only 1 strat for frost jaw and it's boring

7 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Just because you cant use 4726263 cheese like in old bosses?

figuring out how to deal with a boss because simply using a weapon and armor'sn't as efficient as some other strat or doesn't work's fun and'sn't cheese

8 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Because you say frostjaw is easy but then what are shadow pieces? A hard fun masterpiece?

no, but figuring a strat out for them and which strat's best to use for you when in the situation that you're in's fun

[Keknutui]

11 minutes ago, grm9 said:

это не так, но, по крайней мере, определить стратегию для этого было весело, но у frost jaw всего 1 стратегия, и это скучно

выяснять, как справиться с боссом, потому что простое использование оружия и брони не так эффективно, как какой-либо другой стратегии, или не работает, - это весело, а не приятно

нет, но выяснить стратегию для них и какую стратегию лучше использовать для вас в ситуации, в которой вы оказались, - это весело

Sharkboy has variety in attack. You can run behind his back, and then you won't have to break down the walls. It also cancels his usual attack, which already gives you at least 2 ways to kill, and I'm not talking about a new boomerang that you can catch him with.

[arubaro]

20 minutes ago, grm9 said:

it'sn't, but at least figuring a strat out for doing that was fun, but there's only 1 strat for frost jaw and it's boring

figuring out how to deal with a boss because simply using a weapon and armor'sn't as efficient as some other strat or doesn't work's fun and'sn't cheese

no, but figuring a strat out for them and which strat's best to use for you when in the situation that you're in's fun

I get that and is what i like about BQ but i think is good for the game to have BQ's like fights and werepig/frostjaw fights

Also, nobody is asking to make them like frostjaw or werepig, just to make them more dynamic. BQ is fun and has room for a lot of strats but isnt as flat as the chees pieces. The shadow bosses looks like they come from a cheap mediocre game, even the slimes bosses from core keeper have more mechanics and that sandbox have awful boss fights 

[grm9]

37 minutes ago, Keknutui said:

Sharkboy has variety in attack. You can run behind his back, and then you won't have to break down the walls. It also cancels his usual attack, which already gives you at least 2 ways to kill, and I'm not talking about a new boomerang that you can catch him with

there's literally no reason to do any thing except simply circling around the boss for countering all of it's attacks, counting waiting for a rift to spawn and making a rift weapon for killing an extremely easy boss as a strat's like counting feeding 300 monster meat to bearger as a strat

27 minutes ago, arubaro said:

BQ is fun and has room for a lot of strats but isnt as flat as the chees pieces

there're a lot of strats for pieces too, ward robe i frames for rook, boat hop for bishop, bernie for bishop, soul hop for bishop, back step clock for bishop, wes balloon as a replacement for cane for rook, using a beefalo for rook (even 10% taming works even though that makes you need to manage buck timer), minions for knight, boat for knight etc.

i'dn't mind them getting more solutions or things that could get solved through 1 out of multiple solutions that there's a reason to use in some situation except not knowing about a better solution but realistically they'd just turn them into ink blights or another AG with only 1 strat that you'd realistically ever use for killing the boss

[Mike23Ua]

So y’all are going to hate me for even suggesting this, but I don’t care I’m not here to make friends, I'm here to make suggestions I feel fit. And with that in mind, this is a boss composed entirely of Shadows, so it should obviously be able to transform into different types of shadows.

And no I’m not talking about what they already do, I mean anytime Klei adds a new shadow based mob into the game.. (cue that ruins shark thing & the rictus snakes) This boss should be able to duplicate it.

Players who are familiar with RogueLites such as Dead Cells or Trinity Fusion will know that when these type of games get content updates it adds new mobs into the game that can actually impact old areas of the game.

Case in point: The new High Authority mob in Trinity Fusion can link itself to all enemies nearby to him and make them immortal until the Authority is killed first. While this mob is designed to appear most often in the second to last stage for a specific character- it CAN appear outside of that stage and make areas of the game that used to be much easier, much harder.

So.. TL:DR instead of you being able to cheese this thing by getting on a boat and it standing on shore like an idiot unable to get to you it should morph into one of those newer InkBlight Mobs such as geee I don’t know the flying one that resembles the grim reaper?

Just food for Thought.

[Bumber64]

3 hours ago, grm9 said:

armor'sn't as efficient as some other strat or doesn't work's fun and'sn't

You're using the possessive form here and it hurts. Just thought you should know that.

[lowercase skye]

I think you could just make them take turns attacking you like the Shadow Trio and they'd be okay. It's weird that there exist two different (mini?)bosses in the game that have the exact same theming of "3 shadows based on a knight, bishop and rook that all fight together" but one of them is carefully designed so the three take turns attacking you so you're able to dodge them and get some good hits in, while the other is a mess of attack cooldowns that mean they're all wailing on you constantly until you tank the first two and now you've got a rook to kite for the next 6 minutes of your life.

[goblinball]

I feel like no matter how fun the shadow pieces may be, having to refight them over and over again to fight fw (or get the new items) will be so boring. The problem isn’t the fight being bad (although it’s definitely not perfect), it’s that you have to fight it sooo many times just to do things you actually want to do. After you beat it the first time any refights are basically just padding.
The fight isn’t the most complex thing in the world but that’s fine it doesn’t need to be, it’s ok to have smaller simpler fights like shadow pieces not everything needs to be a big complex fight. I agree some small tweaks could be nice though.

[arubaro]

1 hour ago, goblinball said:

I feel like no matter how fun the shadow pieces may be, having to refight them over and over again to fight fw (or get the new items) will be so boring. The problem isn’t the fight being bad (although it’s definitely not perfect), it’s that you have to fight it sooo many times just to do things you actually want to do. After you beat it the first time any refights are basically just padding.
The fight isn’t the most complex thing in the world but that’s fine it doesn’t need to be, it’s ok to have smaller simpler fights like shadow pieces not everything needs to be a big complex fight. I agree some small tweaks could be nice though.

And how refighting them would be boring no matter what but you dont say refighting fw becomes boring? Because fw having a good design, perhaps 

[DegenerateFurry]

The shadow pieces are one of the best boss fights in the game, so no, I don't think they need a rework. Keep the cheese, too - it's only used by people who want to mass-produce night armor and dark swords/farm fuel, it takes a while to set up, and it costs a ton of stone and/or marble. 

[Cassielu]

The only problem with them is that Level 3 rook is much easy but the other two Level 3 pieces are much difficult.

Other than that, they're better than most bosses today

[Frosty_Mentos]

I do think that knights need a deerclops treatment to have anything hit in it's quick path while being able to dodge wherever it's attacking, cause that boss is both low health and very poorly designed to be fought without extreme ways to defend against. We can dodge two rooks, outkite bishop swarm but never the knight cause attack range is high and will hit us anyway.

[arubaro]

2 hours ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

I do think that knights need a deerclops treatment to have anything hit in it's quick path while being able to dodge wherever it's attacking, cause that boss is both low health and very poorly designed to be fought without extreme ways to defend against. We can dodge two rooks, outkite bishop swarm but never the knight cause attack range is high and will hit us anyway.

Tbh, every single creature needs that

[Frosty_Mentos]

2 hours ago, arubaro said:

Tbh, every single creature needs that

Yesn't... Many simpler creatures are kinda very basic sluggish and aren't a threat if you know how to deal with. Bosses are on the level where things would be more on another field to fight but idk, maybe could have something like it - I kinda don't care about that, just want bosses to feel like giants that can be sometimes too clumsy for their size and not do the thing they intend to do as a way to counter by being smarter than them.

[arubaro]

55 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

Yesn't... Many simpler creatures are kinda very basic sluggish and aren't a threat if you know how to deal with. Bosses are on the level where things would be more on another field to fight but idk, maybe could have something like it - I kinda don't care about that, just want bosses to feel like giants that can be sometimes too clumsy for their size and not do the thing they intend to do as a way to counter by being smarter than them.

Isnt about beong a threat... is about polishing. Is kinda dumb to play with others and see how they are hit by horse clockwork's butt because they attacked from behind

This isnt a megadrive videogame

[Frosty_Mentos]

1 hour ago, arubaro said:

Isnt about beong a threat... is about polishing. Is kinda dumb to play with others and see how they are hit by horse clockwork's butt because they attacked from behind

This isnt a megadrive videogame

It's a videogame made forever ago by indie devs that aren't indie today but still remain indie-ish in workforce for the game, what it seems. Idk, I'm not a Klei Entertainist, they probably can do it whenever or never lol.

But also beware, cause I'd bet a lot of those hardcore players might not like that change or something. I kinda would be okay for enemies to have hit and miss areas.

[Maxil20]

18 hours ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

I do think that knights need a deerclops treatment to have anything hit in it's quick path while being able to dodge wherever it's attacking, cause that boss is both low health and very poorly designed to be fought without extreme ways to defend against. We can dodge two rooks, outkite bishop swarm but never the knight cause attack range is high and will hit us anyway.

This could actually be a pretty interesting concept, as the boss you need to strafe to kite to avoiding being hit. Certainly would approve of it, given how I much prefer doing that with the bosses you can then just having to kite back and forth.

[Frosty_Mentos]

6 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

This could actually be a pretty interesting concept, as the boss you need to strafe to kite to avoiding being hit. Certainly would approve of it, given how I much prefer doing that with the bosses you can then just having to kite back and forth.

ngl we kinda always needed more epic loot from bosses we slay, but I'd say we need that more from maybe raid bosses

[Milordo]

I don't care about cheeses, exploits or what not and I don't want this post to derail further into that nonsense. I'm just participating in the discussion for the title "Do you think shadow chess deserves like a crab king rework?" 

I voted "Other" because the choices in the poll did not reflect my sentiments. The shadow pieces, in my opinion, need a lot of changes and these changes are not a "small change" but almost a rework. The fight is very very barebone and repetitive. I don't find them fit the title of a "superboss" like dragonfly, toadstool, bee queen and ancient fuelweaver. They don't have either the thing that differentiate and made special the bosses I cited from the normal bosses, which is intrinsic mechanics and "walls" where you can't go directly at the boss like a cavemen and bonk them to death. You need to use your brain and strategize. Drops too have problems with their cut content, and yada yada yada.... All of this made them, as other people said for a long time, "unfinished". Like an early-access boss.

With that being said I do love them (I mean, how can you not love their badass aesthetic?) and I do love their base design/concepts. That's another reason I choose "Other". Please god no, not a rework like crab king please. I want a rework, not an unistall button. 

Maybe this is too much to ask and I know maybe the community will be opposed or even angry at my proposition, but why are they not a Ruin boss? They even have the Ruins music.......please.....more fixes to the Ruins......