KLEI, please remove the cheese from shadow Chess

[Topazaz]

On 9/6/2024 at 11:49 AM, Keknutui said:

And yes, killing 100 shadow knights is not fun, it's stupidly breaking the mechanics of the game

I did it three times and it probably was the most exciting, SCARY and fun things I did in the entire game. 

Don't try to stop others from having fun please. It still needs A LOT of preparation and precise coordination. Last time I did it I had to reroll (shame on me) because I let dozens of knights free

[Lovens]

1 hour ago, Topazaz said:

I did it three times and it probably was the most exciting, SCARY and fun things I did in the entire game. 

Don't try to stop others from having fun please. It still needs A LOT of preparation and precise coordination. Last time I did it I had to reroll (shame on me) because I let dozens of knights free

Last time my friend and I did it I died 3 times. He crammed 56 Knight statues on a single boat and I was reckless enough to get too close to them in the second stage to lure the stray ones into the range of lvl 2 rook so they all level up to level 3. They hit through my bone armor, then destroyed the dreadstone helmet I was wearing and killed my old Wanda which was quite expected. The next mistake was that I used lifegiving amulet from my dead body pile and got killed again - knights reaggroed onto me mid resurrection animation and killed me before I could even see my character get back to life. Ok, lesson learned, skill issue. Resurrected with another amulet, grabbed some spare bone armors and helmets and used all my healing clocks. Two thirds of lvl 3 knights were already dead from catapults and I went to lure the rest of them into catapult range, underestimating how many were left. Another death.

The cheese is stupid and deadly and I just love messing around like that and facing the consequences of my poor choices. It brings fun and novelty to gameplay. My alternative would have been 56 flawlessly executed lvl 3 shadow rook fights because there is not too much to mess up once you learn how they work and use walking cane, road and mag. It's simply boring. 

P. S: Is it just me or all OP's quotes from other people inserted in their posts appear in Russian with OP's replies still being in English? It's ok to use the automatic translator in a separate tab if one can't get the meaning of posts in a foreign language, but this forum uses English. Might as well keep the quotes in their original language when replying to them. I'm a native Russian speaker and this conversation looks so cringe to me with the mix of Russian and English. 

[DegenerateFurry]

Just let people play the game they want to. Don't like it? Don't use it and ban people from your server if they do. It's really that shrimple. 

[Balter]

I agree this is way beyond stupid. And I have an easy way to solve this. 
 

Just make the shadow pieces be able to walk over land AND sea. We don’t even need to nerf the drops, if they want to fight 100 knights they can go for it.

Their shadows so this is a pretty logical fix considering Maxwell’s puppets can do the same.

[Gashzer]

What is fun cheating 100 shadow atriums? I really don't understand how cheesing 100 shadow knights can be fun. 

What i don't get is if you are playing on your own world just type:

c_spawn ("shadow heart",100)

Why defend a bug? How is killing 100 defenceless shadow knights fun?? As an American would say, Y'all be crazy.

Maxwells shadows and crawling nightmares can both walk on water, there is zero reason why shadow knights can't, I would even go an update shadow merms to also walk on water for consistency sake.

 

 

[ZeRoboButler]

35 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Why defend a bug? How is killing 100 defenceless shadow knights fun?? As an American would say, Y'all be crazy.

I would understand if the fight were fun or engaging, but it simply isn't. The fight is just a movement speed check, with one effective way of doing it, it's just not engaging enough for it to really be worth caring about. 

If the knight didn't just have a guaranteed way of hitting the player and if the bishop didn't just appear on the player, Heck if they just had some diverse sets of attacks, I would be on board 100%. I'll be honest if you don't approach this fight in a very specific way, you cheese yourself basically. 

I'm not saying that killing the shadow pieces this way is satisfying, I'm saying that it's a part of a larger issue, something i'm thinking about a lot more now that the conversation on the chess pieces came up, where drops were placeholder for about... I wanna say 8-7 years? 

I'm not saying do anything crazy, just some small adjustments to the bishop, and some new attacks for the fully leveled shadows that could be contingent on certain conditions that the player has basic control over. Examples being, how much damage is dealt in a short span of time, the distance the player is from the target, weapons of choice, anything really would be nice to just get this fight more... let's say cleaned up. It's just a shame that it's only one way for this fight to go when it technically is 3 fights, like a crab king before crab king, in theory we should be able to pick a way to do it but the viability of the others is something to be desired.  

[00petar00]

56 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Why defend a bug? How is killing 100 defenceless shadow knights fun?? As an American would say, Y'all be crazy.

It is not a bug and its getting to me when so many survival only players tell me to use console and cheat just because they want to stop me from using a method that is not forced upon them, you can't accidentally kill 100 shadow pieces. At some point you will need to realize that this is a sandbox game.

I really didn't expect to see you type something like this, I usually agree with a lot of your posts.

[HeatAndRun]

Frankly shadow chess pieces cannot walk between ocean boundary doesn't make sense to me, as much as void walking.

But besides how it looks silly, the practicality of that cheese is another problem, because it surely offers a lot of benefits to the player anyway for now. There could be some tweaks or reworks to this boss fight in return if they decide to remove the cheese, maybe.

[arubaro]

1 hour ago, ZeRoboButler said:

would understand if the fight were fun or engaging, but it simply isn't

But people dont support a rework because they are scare of losing the easy way of getting hearts and shadow gear... instead of wanting changes to make them fun, better savotage to keep a boring fight so there is an excuse to exploit the game

[Balter]

54 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

It is not a bug and its getting to me when so many survival only players tell me to use console and cheat just because they want to stop me from using a method that is not forced upon them, you can't accidentally kill 100 shadow pieces. At some point you will need to realize that this is a sandbox game.

Bruv, If you are playing on your own world and cheesing for the lols go for it. 

Imagine I’m playing fairly and got all the necessary items to do a certain event then all of a sudden I found some dude who cheesed that boss 4 days ago because of a bug and having the audacity to say it’s an op strat to play the unintended way. So am I supposed to cheat as well in order to do the boss fight first because if I don’t others would already have beat me to it. 

The argument of “this is a sandbox game” reinforces the idea that people should exploit the game if given the opportunity to. And guess what I don’t want to play that way.

[grm9]

3 hours ago, Balter said:

Imagine I’m playing fairly and got all the necessary items to do a certain event then all of a sudden I found some dude who cheesed that boss 4 days ago because of a bug and having the audacity to say it’s an op strat to play the unintended way. So am I supposed to cheat as well in order to do the boss fight first because if I don’t others would already have beat me to it

that almost never happens because killing any boss except toad's faster cheeseless in comparison to with cheese

[Lovens]

2 hours ago, Balter said:

Bruv, If you are playing on your own world and cheesing for the lols go for it. 

Imagine I’m playing fairly and got all the necessary items to do a certain event then all of a sudden I found some dude who cheesed that boss 4 days ago because of a bug and having the audacity to say it’s an op strat to play the unintended way. So am I supposed to cheat as well in order to do the boss fight first because if I don’t others would already have beat me to it. 

The argument of “this is a sandbox game” reinforces the idea that people should exploit the game if given the opportunity to. And guess what I don’t want to play that way.

Ironically, Shadow Pieces cheese does not speed up getting one shadow atrium. If someone is cheesing them on a new moon you could as well prepare the statues yourself and fight the trio legit somewhere else on the very same night. You will be even done faster than the guy doing the cheese. 

[IAmAFurrz]

On 9/6/2024 at 3:49 PM, Keknutui said:

And yes, killing 100 shadow knights is not fun, it's stupidly breaking the mechanics of the game

all of this boils down to 'people found they can farm shadow hearts'. then its better to ask them to remove the ability to make 100 shadow knights

still im pretty sure most dont really farm those

[00petar00]

6 hours ago, Balter said:

Bruv, If you are playing on your own world and cheesing for the lols go for it. 

Imagine I’m playing fairly and got all the necessary items to do a certain event then all of a sudden I found some dude who cheesed that boss 4 days ago because of a bug and having the audacity to say it’s an op strat to play the unintended way. So am I supposed to cheat as well in order to do the boss fight first because if I don’t others would already have beat me to it. 

The argument of “this is a sandbox game” reinforces the idea that people should exploit the game if given the opportunity to. And guess what I don’t want to play that way.

I don't care If you get things "fairly" according to your own standards. We are playing a sandbox game and no one is forcing you whether to use this method or not to get as many shadow atrium as you want.

Everyone has their own choice to make, If you think that it is unfair because others are gaining advantage it is purely your problem.

Lets say we play on the same endless server and I use this method to get 100 shadow atriums, why would this matter besides you being jealous of me? If you are feeling jealous and you come to forums to ask for it to be patched this would remove your credibility unless you have a good reason which I have not seen since this beta started.

Usually when it comes to removing bugs players don't have a choice whether to use them or not and it makes the game worse to play, this isn't even a bug but it doesn't affect anyone not using it while this is a sandbox game so it really shouldn't be removed. I don't think lureplant change should've happened but it is what it is and it affected scrappy werepig and probably future bosses.

[ZeRoboButler]

10 hours ago, arubaro said:

But people don't support a rework because they are scared of losing the easy way of getting hearts and shadow gear... instead of wanting changes to make them fun, better sabotage to keep a boring fight so there is an excuse to exploit the game

I feel like this is a bit of a exaggeration but there is some truth here, yes people will not like the idea of a rework. But to be entirely honest, why is this a factor at this point? People are averse to change, it happens a lot but in this case it would be an objectively better option. 

Lets face it, voidwalking and lureplants are evidence enough that eventually, klei will address bugs as best they can with the time they have. It's all about their priorities and time for them, and this could be an inevitability. 

Lets be as unbiased as we can here and say what is fundamentally true, Fighting the chess pieces has always had one effective way of fighting it (for characters that are not wurt) and it has made the fight unappealing, especially since it is a repeat fight for quite a few people. Bugs, exploits or techniques to subvert time consuming or uninteresting gameplay is a given when the intended way of interacting with the content is something to be desired. 

The lure plant collision was making it so a key part of progression and a very powerful effect on the world and ruins was being done with little to no effort. Fixing it was an easy choice, fuel weaver should be hard simple as that, especially for what his death ends up giving the player.

Voidwalking is patched in the beta as a means to make sure winona's bridges functioned appropriately, additionally leading to us as players being able to make our own bridges for an organic way to cross gaps in the caves (6 tiles long might I add, so far very useful). Not to mention, the atrium is getting looked at as well, with potential changes to how it's located as well. 

Change will happen eventually, and it is for the better. This isn't some attack on certain players and the way they want to play the game, it simply is the way the game is. There is a lot of stuff that is flawed with the fight and improvements as well as fixes are warranted.

[Well-met]

literally 0 reason shadow pieces cant walk on the sea.

All other shadows can.

[cybers2001]

3 hours ago, Well-met said:

literally 0 reason shadow pieces cant walk on the sea.

All other shadows can.

If the chess bosses are meant to behave identically to nightmares, then followers besides Bernie should also not be able to target them.

[Evelo]

3 hours ago, Well-met said:

All other shadows can.

Well the only other shadow is the Crawling Horror. Terrorbreak turns into the Terrorclaw when at sea, Swimming Horror is an ocean specific Shadow creature from Shipwrecked, Parasitic Shadeling can't be brought to the surface without console commands, Resting Horror just sits down on a Chair in the Ruins. When attacked, a Crawling Horror teleports to the nearest "land", which most of the time is the boat, it does not teleport onto the ocean surface. The only time it is seen crawling onto the ocean is when it migrates off of the land and onto the ocean surface because it is chasing after the player while the player is on a boat.

So no. "All other shadows can." is not true.

[ALCRD]

Without the cheese they won't taste the same anymore

[Mike23Ua]

2 hours ago, Evelo said:

Well the only other shadow is the Crawling Horror. Terrorbreak turns into the Terrorclaw when at sea, Swimming Horror is an ocean specific Shadow creature from Shipwrecked, Parasitic Shadeling can't be brought to the surface without console commands, Resting Horror just sits down on a Chair in the Ruins. When attacked, a Crawling Horror teleports to the nearest "land", which most of the time is the boat, it does not teleport onto the ocean surface. The only time it is seen crawling onto the ocean is when it migrates off of the land and onto the ocean surface because it is chasing after the player while the player is on a boat.

So no. "All other shadows can." is not true.

Yeah but… they’re SHADOWS Do me a favor please, Go Re-Watch Wandas Animated short. What you see them doing there is what they probably should be doing in game.

Or go watch the horror movie the vanishing on 7th Street.

TL:DR entities composed of shadows should do cool stuff.

[arubaro]

3 hours ago, Evelo said:

Well the only other shadow is the Crawling Horror. Terrorbreak turns into the Terrorclaw when at sea, Swimming Horror is an ocean specific Shadow creature from Shipwrecked, Parasitic Shadeling can't be brought to the surface without console commands, Resting Horror just sits down on a Chair in the Ruins. When attacked, a Crawling Horror teleports to the nearest "land", which most of the time is the boat, it does not teleport onto the ocean surface. The only time it is seen crawling onto the ocean is when it migrates off of the land and onto the ocean surface because it is chasing after the player while the player is on a boat.

So no. "All other shadows can." is not true.

Maxwell's shadows

[Castiliano]

On 9/7/2024 at 8:28 PM, DegenerateFurry said:

Just let people play the game they want to. Don't like it? Don't use it and ban people from your server if they do. It's really that shrimple. 

Just let Klei fix and polish their game. It's really that shrimple.

[Jakepeng99]

16 hours ago, Evelo said:

Well the only other shadow is the Crawling Horror. Terrorbreak turns into the Terrorclaw when at sea, Swimming Horror is an ocean specific Shadow creature from Shipwrecked, Parasitic Shadeling can't be brought to the surface without console commands, Resting Horror just sits down on a Chair in the Ruins. When attacked, a Crawling Horror teleports to the nearest "land", which most of the time is the boat, it does not teleport onto the ocean surface. The only time it is seen crawling onto the ocean is when it migrates off of the land and onto the ocean surface because it is chasing after the player while the player is on a boat.

So no. "All other shadows can." is not true.

Maxwells puppets can, and they interact with everything in the game.

[DegenerateFurry]

3 hours ago, Castiliano said:

Just let Klei fix and polish their game. It's really that shrimple.

Nah, I don't think I will. Fixing something is meant to be an improvement. Taking options away like that would be purely negative.

If they break that farm, I will install a mod that fixes it and makes it possible again. 

[Castiliano]

4 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

If they break that farm, I will install a mod that fixes it and makes it possible again. 

Exactly the perfect way to deal with something broken in the game!

(no sarcasm)