Do you like Ancient Fuelweaver as-is or would you like to see him changed or reworked?

[DegenerateFurry]

Pretty simple question. I've seen a lot of people who support the idea of changing the Ancient Fuelweaver's fight significantly to make him more accessible for the playerbase. Now we have precedent for that being done: Crab King used to require a lot of quick inventory management and was extremely punishing if you messed up, but now the fight's more forgiving for minor mistakes of timing and is, in my opinion, more engaging and fun than it ever was before.

So, how about we actually get some statistics on what people on the forums think: should Ancient Fuelweaver's fight be changed, and if so, does that change need to be major or would it be alright to just tweak stuff, perhaps based on number of players present in the Atrium or just in general, to widen the window of opportunity you have to attack him between his immune phases? 

[Theukon-dos]

Fuel weaver is 90% a good fight. Hell, even a great fight. Litterally the only thing that needs changed IMO is mire ways to pop the woven shadows that isn't season or character dependant.

[Frashaw27]

The only change I could see is the number of Woven Shadows/amount they heal being changed to reflect the amount of players so single folks aren't flooded with so much healing all their progress is reset. Besides that I think all the mechanics of fuelweaver are the best a boss can have

[Ridley]

One of my three favorite bosses, but it could use some adjustments. I use the brightstaff method with 0 sanity because it cuts down on the awful item swapping. I think introducing the invincible shadow hand mechanic in the Atrium before the fight would be good for beginners. And does that tentipillar really have to block exit every time?

[grm9]

15 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

Litterally the only thing that needs changed IMO is mire ways to pop the woven shadows that isn't season or character dependant

you can keep him away from them for them to die on their own after 40 seconds after spawning, imo being able to kill him before spring when playing as any character works as a reward for learning how to do the fight the harder way

[dois raios]

IN MY OPINION, this thing of reworking bosses is going way to far, fuelweaver is EASY with brigthshade gear.

I have never defeated him without cheese or wolfgang until the lunar rift update, the staff is simply amasing in the fight, and the BS sword have buffs on shadow aligned creatures.

Now I can defeat him with any character.

[mkemal23]

Fuelweaver is already one of the best boss in this game. Perfect lore, challenging fight, good loot. Only two changes I would make are:

• Make it so you don't hit him when you try to kill nearby woven shadows.
• Fix the weird aggro stuff happening with nightmares.

Other than that, the fight is perfect.

[Guille6785]

58 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

make him more accessible

just say easier

[Mysterious box]

48 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

Fuel weaver is 90% a good fight. Hell, even a great fight. Litterally the only thing that needs changed IMO is mire ways to pop the woven shadows that isn't season or character dependant.

What about the brightshade staff?

[DegenerateFurry]

11 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

just say easier

I don't mean "easier", I mean less unintuitive and fiddly. It's an inventory management nightmare. I don't even consider that a fight or a gameplay mechanic, it's a chore. 

[arubaro]

10 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

What about the brightshade staff?

Or simply killing them by hand :/

 

Idk why people wants to change one of the best, if not the best, fight in the game. These "rework [whatever]" topics really looks like asking for decreasing the difficulty.

we got a lot of QoL to make the game less grindy so now we have more time to farm materials for these fights, we got character refreshes in which there were only buffs, now we have skill trees and we received new gear that is strong agaisnt shadows (and getting the moon gear requires less skill than beating fw)

And before anybody starts with "but new players..." i had over 500h before i knew about these bosses (something that requires a look up before reworking any perfect boss) and went throw the effort of learning the fight and grinding a lot of materials to make sure i could beat him. Nothing is pressuring to do it at the same time as any streamer or speedrunner,  take your time like many of us did

This game doesnt require much skill, fw only needs some item swapping which, if you ever played any game before, isnt that big of a deal (atleast with k&m but consoles controls are another can of worms)

There are maaaaaany things before changing something as cool as fw

And the proof is how there is only 1 topic complaining about CK unbalance but FW's topics pops ups every time the community is bored

 

[DegenerateFurry]

2 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Or simply killing them by hand :/

 

Idk why people wants to change one of the best, if not the best, fight in the game. These "rework [whatever]" topics really looks like asking for decreasing the difficulty.

we got a lot of QoL to make the game less grindy so now we have more time to farm materials for these fights, we got character refreshes in which there were only buffs, now we have skill trees and we received new gear that is strong agaisnt shadows (and getting the moon gear requires less skill than beating fw)

And before anybody starts with "but new players..." i had over 500h before i knew about these bosses (something that requires a look up before reworking any perfect boss) and went throw the effort of learning the fight and grinding a lot of materials to make sure i could beat him. Nothing is pressuring to do it at the same time as any streamer or speedrunner,  take your time like many of us did

This game doesnt require much skill, fw only needs some item swapping which, if you ever played any game before, isnt that big of a deal (atleast with k&m but consoles controls are another can of worms)

There are maaaaaany things before changing something as cool as fw

And the proof is how there is only 1 topic complaining about CK unbalance but FW's topics pops ups every time the community is bored

 

Explain to me why it is that literally nobody ever asks for Celestial Champion to be reworked or nerfed even though he's one of the most challenging bosses in the game. Why do people love Celestial Champion if, according to you and your fellow "git gud scrub" elitists, people just want Fuelweaver changed because he's too difficult? I really don't see how you people can make that logic work internally, so I'd love to hear an explanation. Is it just not something you've taken into account because you've already assumed you're right that people just want Fuelweaver to be easier?

[arubaro]

16 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

I don't mean "easier", I mean less unintuitive and fiddly. It's an inventory management nightmare. I don't even consider that a fight or a gameplay mechanic, it's a chore. 

If managing 3 items is hard for you just means you need to understand how the inventory works and practise

Idk what kind of games play the people that complain about learning to right click fast/use a couple of numbers

Whatever the problem is it isnt a problem with FW's design so there is no point of ruinning it for the people that have fun with it just because people rather want something changed than making an effort, no wonder why there is so much idle and clicker games in top played charts

If you think managing the inventory is hard then you should suggest ways to improve it instead of reworking 1 boss at a time to make it simplier so people dont break a their brains trying to use more than 1 item (this remember me that guy saying that switching between cane and weapon was a speedrunner strat...)

Go to the root of the problem instead of ruinning content with band aid fixes.

This is not new home, it doesnt need to be simple. There are already a lot of stuff that lost their value like hiring bunnymens  because all the powercreep received lately to, on top of that, makes things simplier so everything can be beaten with log suit and hambat without switching to cane because this is not dark souls, skill and improvement isnt welcome 

/rant

Have a nice day everyone 

6 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Explain to me why it is that literally nobody ever asks for Celestial Champion to be reworked or nerfed even though he's one of the most challenging bosses in the game.

Maybe because you dont need any skill to kill him and, even if you fail or need a retreat, the boss is waiting for you to keep the fight

Is a hard fight but you can simply go with cheap marble suits, tons of blue caps and a hambat. No need to turn on any brain

While isnt the easiest boss of the game is the most forgiving because you can even go to your base in the main land, expend 1000days gathering extra gear and food and come back and continue the fight where you left it

Surprisingly k&m players complain because a fight requires to use items in a game with many items and mechanics 

These kind of complains only achieves scaring klei of adding interesting fights that involve using different mechanics

 

Edit: and i forgot that we have many ways to make the game easier to learn from game settings, using basic strong characters like wolfgang or wigfrid, using the portal to take advantage of other perks like volt goat jelly and catapults,  etc

Also we have rollbacks to learn

Actually i learned the ANR fights by playing Wolfgang until i felt like my ratio of failures dropped a lot and tried with wilson and few time after with wendy when she got her rework

This game is not tik tok, here you need time, concentration, motivation and will power to learn

There are games to play effortless

[DegenerateFurry]

9 minutes ago, arubaro said:

If managing 3 items is hard for you just means you need to understand how the inventory works and practise

Idk what kind of games play the people that complain about learning to right click fast/use a couple of numbers

Whatever the problem is it isnt a problem with FW's design so there is no point of ruining it for the people that have fun with it just because people rather want something changed than making an effort, no wonder why there is so much idle and clicker games in top played charts

If you think managing the inventory is hard then you should suggest ways to improve it instead of reworking 1 boss at a time to make it simpler so people don't break a their brains trying to use more than 1 item (this remember me that guy saying that switching between cane and weapon was a speedrunner strat...)

Go to the root of the problem instead of ruining content with band aid fixes.

This is not new home, it doesn't need to be simple. There are already a lot of stuff that lost their value like hiring bunnymen  because all the powercreep received lately to, on top of that, makes things simpler so everything can be beaten with log suit and hambat without switching to cane because this is not dark souls, skill and improvement isn't welcome 

/rant

Have a nice day everyone 

You're being incredibly disingenuous. It doesn't take managing three items, it practically requires the weather pane. You have to switch between your Lazy Explorer, the weather pane(s), your weapon, the nightmare amulet (and probably a magiluminescence), and constantly shove sanity food down your throat, and doing all of that as a solo player makes the fight drag on because you don't have very long to actually damage him. 

The only people defending Fuelweaver who actually have a point are the ones suggesting using Brightshade gear against him. Seemingly everyone else defending him is just saying some variation of "git gud" and are pretending that doesn't involve spending tens of hours practicing a fight they can't stand doing. It's almost as bad as that one guy in every thread Fuelweaver is criticized in who tells you stuff like "just do frame-perfect animation cancels to maximize DPS while exploiting his AI to lead him around the arena for a full 40 seconds while the wovens despawn and also time killing the last one perfectly, bro". 

[Swiyss]

12 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

even though he's one of the most challenging bosses in the game

what? CC?
All it takes is time. It's like a toadstool but between 3 phases. It's honestly so easy the only reason people have not fought him blindfolded is because the dst community is not big enough. 

[DegenerateFurry]

Just now, Swiyss said:

what? CC?
All it takes is time. It's like a toadstool but between 3 phases. It's honestly so easy the only reason people have not fought him blindfolded is because the dst community is not big enough. 

Thank you for reminding me to not take anything elitists like you say seriously. 

[grm9]

6 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Explain to me why it is that literally nobody ever asks for Celestial Champion to be reworked or nerfed even though he's one of the most challenging bosses in the game

because it isn't, it's practically boring, i'd want it to get turned into something more fun but asking for that'd be pointless since klei only make bosses easier these days

8 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

your fellow "git gud scrub" elitists

no one asked to remove all cheeses and make brightshade staff and gunpowder not work against him, what part of anyone's message's elitism?

11 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Why do people love Celestial Champion

i don't, i never do CC questline because it sucks, i usually stop playing in a world after killing all ANR bosses because there're no fun things left to do by then and i've already made a post about asking to add more bosses like ANR bosses but i doubt that that'll make them do that since people seem to like extremely easy fights that you can do on 1st or 2nd try and that only have 1 extremely simple, obvious and easy and most efficient strat for them

4 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

it practically requires the weather pane

misinformation

[Cassielu]

34 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

unintuitive and fiddly

Excuse. AFs combat mechanics is much simple intuitive and understandable than most of the new bosses after then. And the new CK is much more unintuitive and fiddly than Fuelweaver, and also much more unintuitive and fiddly than the old CK, but you're still praising it.

[grm9]

5 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

just do frame-perfect animation cancels to maximize DPS

no one said that

5 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

while exploiting his AI

no one said that

5 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

for a full 40 seconds

no one said that, you just need to get him far enough away from them for them to die before they reach him, they can die after you start attacking him

6 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

also time killing the last one perfectly

no one said that, that's not needed if they die on their own instead of getting eaten

[Swiyss]

5 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Thank you for reminding me to not take anything elitists like you say seriously. 

phase one you just RUN ON A STRAIGHT LINE, then he hides, waits 3 WHOLE SECONDS until you need to walk down and stand still. then just repeat.

phase 2 gives you 1 WHOLE SECOND before you can press 1 button until he stops running at you. gestalts attacks requires you to just WALK IN A CIRCLE (I think flash mario jumps are more intense than this) and a barrier with 6 seconds of time to walk to the other side.

phase 3 if you stand inside CC he never does lazer attack, and it's also a whole second to react to it. LITERALLY JUST PRESS F AND TANK CRYSTALS. if he's inside the crystals, just walk 2 steps before each attack, you don't even need to know if it's horizontal or vertical, just walk diagonally.

Every boss in this game is easy, the "hard" ones are the ones that requires you to do lots of things at the same time like the old crab king which is not even in the game anymore.

[grm9]

7 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

you don't have very long to actually damage him

20 seconds, that's around 3k damage if you just hold F with a glass cutter with x1 damage so 3 cycles if you bait mind control before unseen hands

[Swiyss]

I can LITERALLY kill cc on repeat no-hit while on discord farming in my world. it is THAT easy.

[grm9]

10 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

The only people defending Fuelweaver who actually have a point are the ones suggesting using Brightshade gear against him

"only they're right because i said that"

11 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Seemingly everyone else defending him is just saying some variation of "git gud" and are pretending that doesn't involve spending tens of hours practicing a fight they can't stand doing

i've had fun when learning how to fight FW (shocking)

just use brightshade staff if you don't want to do that

[Swiyss]

7 minutes ago, grm9 said:

20 seconds, that's around 3k damage if you just hold F with a glass cutter with x1 damage so 3 cycles if you bait mind control before unseen hands

They hate repeating cycles apparently. And knowing when to press 1 to switch items is unintuitive and un-fun for them.

[arubaro]

17 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

You're being incredibly disingenuous. It doesn't take managing three items, it practically requires the weather pane. You have to switch between your Lazy Explorer, the weather pane(s), your weapon, the nightmare amulet (and probably a magiluminescence), and constantly shove sanity food down your throat, and doing all of that as a solo player makes the fight drag on because you don't have very long to actually damage him. 

The only people defending Fuelweaver who actually have a point are the ones suggesting using Brightshade gear against him. Seemingly everyone else defending him is just saying some variation of "git gud" and are pretending that doesn't involve spending tens of hours practicing a fight they can't stand doing. It's almost as bad as that one guy in every thread Fuelweaver is criticized in who tells you stuff like "just do frame-perfect animation cancels to maximize DPS while exploiting his AI to lead him around the arena for a full 40 seconds while the wovens despawn and also time killing the last one perfectly, bro". 

Dude, practise.  There werent any brightshade nothing back when i learned neither when people that defend it learned the fight.  Learning that fight, and in general playing dst, made way better in everygame

You might not be aware but killing this boss is difficult because it gives you the strongest armor in the game, a way to ignore sanity, reset the ruins, a way to have bosses as pets in the caves and activating the rifts

Use the damn numbers of your keyboard and organize your inventory instead of the mess 99% people have with flint in slot 1, a weapon in the backpack and other non sense

And dont quote back because i dont see how it makes sense to keep repeating ourselves. You clearly dont wanna learn how to properly play while i already went throw the process of learning and see the fight, even when it frustrated me, with good eyes and nothing will change. I wrote my point 

Is on klei to make the right decision and dont ruin more content because casuals