Do you like Ancient Fuelweaver as-is or would you like to see him changed or reworked?

[Swiyss]

3 hours ago, Gashzer said:

not even elden ring expects that.

I had never in my entire life played any souls like, and it took me 59 hours to defeat malenia. Just saying, that these cases DO exist. And that if people really wanna achieve something, they will go and do it instead of complain about things being too hard.

3 hours ago, Gameplayer143 said:

DST is a textbook example of a "wiki reliant" game to a fault.

Why do you think that's a problem?

They are fixing that slowly to care for new players.

The game is already going to your desired direction. Why do you want a giant text pop-up every 10 minutes to explain the mathematical equation for planar damage mechanics?

18 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Look back at what you just typed.

Cheese being so normalized in DST is unhinged. Im shocked DST devs are not more insulted, guess they are since they are trying their best to remove cheeses from all new bosses.

Cheeses are great for the game, they are strategies that people come up with that makes hard bosses easy. However, certain types of cheeses are extreme, like for example the lureplant cheese, that for me was too much.

Cheeses like using treeguards or rock lobsters to defeat fuelweaver are all great ones and they don't affect the game too much. Those are the cheeses I'm talking about.

I also don't enjoy when people use game glitches on their casual gameplay and call it a strat, that's game code abuse and I don't support it.

[Guille6785]

11 hours ago, Gameplayer143 said:

guille unironically arguing that it's an easy process to learn how to dodge his cage attack

I never said that, can you not strawman a post you literally just linked

[Gameplayer143]

46 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

I never said that, can you not strawman a post you literally just linked

When I asked you do you think the average person can learn the bone cage strat, you responded "people can just learn it on their own" and said "people aren't superhuman for learning that strat on their own". These statements that imply you'd expect the average player to pick up the bone cage dodge.

4 hours ago, Swiyss said:

I had never in my entire life played any souls like, and it took me 59 hours to defeat malenia. Just saying, that these cases DO exist. And that if people really wanna achieve something, they will go and do it instead of complain about things being too hard.

Why do you think that's a problem?

They are fixing that slowly to care for new players.

The game is already going to your desired direction. Why do you want a giant text pop-up every 10 minutes to explain the mathematical equation for planar damage mechanics?

Cheeses are great for the game, they are strategies that people come up with that makes hard bosses easy. However, certain types of cheeses are extreme, like for example the lureplant cheese, that for me was too much.

Cheeses like using treeguards or rock lobsters to defeat fuelweaver are all great ones and they don't affect the game too much. Those are the cheeses I'm talking about.

I also don't enjoy when people use game glitches on their casual gameplay and call it a strat, that's game code abuse and I don't support it.

Idk man, you have people who will make arguments that Malenia is a ******** boss fight and contrast her to past souls boss fights. Like right now there are people who say the final boss fight in the DLC is even more ********. Are those people in the wrong to complain and criticize those boss fights?

As for the planar damage tip, yes I'd argue that would be better for the game. I'd argue explaining how these endgame gear deal damage and how and why these new end game enemies and bosses (planar entities) are resisting your dark sword so much, is important to explain. Of course I wouldn't advocate being annoying with pop ups but rather have them be explained in the scrapbook. Also notice the part where I brought up the crockpot recepies being different from crafting recepies where it's still mainly a guessing game. DST still has a long way to addressing the "Wiki game reliance" issues.

[Swiyss]

16 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

As for the planar damage tip, yes I'd argue that would be better for the game. I'd argue explaining how these endgame gear deal damage and how and why these new end game enemies and bosses (planar entities) are resisting your dark sword so much, is important to explain. Of course I wouldn't advocate being annoying with pop ups but rather have them be explained in the scrapbook. Also notice the part where I brought up the crockpot recepies being different from crafting recepies where it's still mainly a guessing game. DST still has a long way to addressing the "Wiki game reliance" issues.

Scrapbook.

[Gameplayer143]

Just now, Swiyss said:

Scrapbook.

I can't find anywhere in the scrapbook that explains the mechanics of planar damage, defense and planar entities.

[Swiyss]

4 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

I can't find anywhere in the scrapbook that explains the mechanics of planar damage, defense and planar entities.

It explains all you need to know to basically use the mechanic.

[Gameplayer143]

2 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

It explains all you need to know to basically use the mechanic.

Well I can't find it, so can you give me a summary of what it explains? Does it explain that planar entities reduce more damage from non planar damage and reduce more the higher the damage? 

[Swiyss]

3 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

Well I can't find it, so can you give me a summary of what it explains? Does it explain that planar entities reduce more damage from non planar damage and reduce more the higher the damage?

Idk man. Try checking the bs sword, armour and gear. Also the inkblight ones have a cool explanation too. But the best one you'll find is the description of the W.A.R.B.I.S gear.

[Gameplayer143]

9 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

Idk man. Try checking the bs sword, armour and gear. Also the inkblight ones have a cool explanation too. But the best one you'll find is the description of the W.A.R.B.I.S gear.

Ink blight ones don't explain ****. The w.a.r.b.i.s gear also only explain the mechanics with the buffs with more damage and speed, nothing about how planar defence and planar damage interact with each other, nor explaining that planar entity trait even exists. Besides planar mechanics isn't even the one non obvious thing that feels wiki reliant, there's more I can list like pearl's tasks, mooncaller staff, and the crockpot recepies.

[Quadratordo]

Me when I see ER/SOTE pop up in a DST convo 

As far as I'm concerned, AFW is fine as it is. Nothing wrong with a relatively complex boss whose ''gear requirements'' become more loose as you get better at fighting it; the esoteric tech such as the bone cage dodge isn't *needed*, it's just a nice extra. The main issue I had with the fight has already been taken care of recently, anyways. On the matter of how obscure reaching the boss in the first place might be, I don't mind it. That being said, I wouldn't mind the game itself shedding more light on how to reach him; it's not like that'd make the fight itself any different.



 

[Swiyss]

6 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

Ink blight ones don't explain ****. The w.a.r.b.i.s gear also only explain the mechanics with the buffs with more damage and speed, nothing about how planar defence and planar damage interact with each other, nor explaining that planar entity trait even exists. Besides planar mechanics isn't even the one non obvious thing that feels wiki reliant, there's more I can list like pearl's tasks, mooncaller staff, and the crockpot recepies.

Then make a topic/post here asking directly for an in-game wiki for Klei in hopes that they add the equations in the scrapbook.

[arubaro]

16 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

I can't find anywhere in the scrapbook that explains the mechanics of planar damage, defense and planar entities.

Use the dummies. You dont need the exact formula to understand how planar entities absorbs more damage the higher damage you deal or how, if a planar enemy with 100 physical damage and 30 planar damage atacks you while you wear a piggy helmet you receive 50 damage

[Gameplayer143]

7 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

Then make a topic/post here asking directly for an in-game wiki for Klei in hopes that they add the equations in the scrapbook.

You say this as if anyone would actually be against having more information on how game mechanics work. 

[Swiyss]

4 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

You say this as if anyone would actually be against having more information on how game mechanics work. 

I think current way of explaining it in the scrapbook is enough. I saw a Polish guy first timing the possesed varg with no idea of the planar mechanics. He realized it by saying "wait, it has true damage.. what?". Then proceeded to search the scrapbook, read the information, and understand it immediately. Next videos the guy was only using BS gear against it.

Wooow! Who guessed huh! Someone who never used the wiki figured it out. In front of my eyes. If this example is true, then the rest who can't figure it out will eventually ask an experienced friend/search the wiki. No shame in doing that too.

[Gameplayer143]

1 minute ago, Swiyss said:

I think current way of explaining it in the scrapbook is enough. I saw a Polish guy first timing the possesed varg with no idea of the planar mechanics. He realized it by saying "wait, it has true damage.. what?". Then proceeded to search the scrapbook, read the information, and understand it immediately. Next videos the guy was only using BS gear against it.

Wooow! Who guessed huh! Someone who never used the wiki figured it out. In front of my eyes. If this example is true, then the rest who can't figure it out will eventually ask an experienced friend/search the wiki. No shame in doing that too.

Well considering I have played with friends who went with misconception that planar defence also blocks regular damage, when it doesn't, I'd consider more explanation is warranted. Also not everyone is going to first time a possessed varg, anyone who's only average at the game can likely die to it. Also planar mechanics isn't the only thing I'd argue is wiki reliant to a fault (crockpot recepies)

[Swiyss]

10 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

Well considering I have played with friends who went with misconception that planar defence also blocks regular damage, when it doesn't, I'd consider more explanation is warranted. Also not everyone is going to first time a possessed varg, anyone who's only average at the game can likely die to it. Also planar mechanics isn't the only thing I'd argue is wiki reliant to a fault (crockpot recepies)

But what's the big deal of checking the wiki? I'm not understanding your complain.

[Gameplayer143]

5 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

But what's the big deal of checking the wiki? I'm not understanding your complain.

Because it's the job of the game to explain game mechanics to you, not the job of the community. 

[Swiyss]

3 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

Because it's the job of the game to explain game mechanics to you, not the job of the community. 

You're not the one who chooses, you know this right? it's Klei's game, ask them to do it (they're already doing it) or design your game and do it yourself. The binding of isaac is a game that requires a wiki also, terraria is a game that requires a wiki, hades, elden ring also (which was discussed before) and many others are like this.

Actually you have to thank Klei that they're deciding to do this for us. They could just not do it and say "well most games don't do it so I won't too".

They are basically going out  of their way to add the scrapbook. Atleast be nice heh?

[Guille6785]

1 hour ago, Gameplayer143 said:

When I asked you do you think the average person can learn the bone cage strat, you responded "people can just learn it on their own" and said "people aren't superhuman for learning that strat on their own". These statements that imply you'd expect the average player to pick up the bone cage dodge.

that is an entirely different statement from "it's an easy process to learn how to dodge his cage attack" (which is what you just accused me of saying) and is also not what I was arguing

[Echsrick]

9 hours ago, arubaro said:

 

Also remove his atack, his cage and the boss itself since we are at it...

Managing sanity to destroy the shild while not being punished by it is one of the things that makes this fight unique and fun. Some people just want to hold F against a treeguard reskinned... 

ok, not sure why you enjoy suffering and with a rather hostile tone, but i hope you got a good day then if you do enjoy suffering

[Swiyss]

6 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

ok, not sure why you enjoy suffering and with a rather hostile tone, but i hope you got a good day then if you do enjoy suffering

Any self sabotage enjoyers in the chat?

[Gameplayer143]

1 hour ago, Swiyss said:

You're not the one who chooses, you know this right? it's Klei's game, ask them to do it (they're already doing it) or design your game and do it yourself. The binding of isaac is a game that requires a wiki also, terraria is a game that requires a wiki, hades, elden ring also (which was discussed before) and many others are like this.

Actually you have to thank Klei that they're deciding to do this for us. They could just not do it and say "well most games don't do it so I won't too".

They are basically going out  of their way to add the scrapbook. Atleast be nice heh?

A lot of games rely on using microtransactions, or rely on Games as a service model. Would you say this a valid argument in defence of microtransactions and GAAS models? 

I don't know what indication here was me being mean to the game devs. I only believe that it's the job of a game to teach the player its mechanics, not the community. That's not me being mean.

Also again this doesn't even get into the main issue I have is that crockpot recepies are more obscure and reliant on recepie pages as opposed to having a crafting menu just show you it. Wheres the consistency there?

[Mysterious box]

4 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

A lot of games rely on using microtransactions, or rely on Games as a service model. Would you say this a valid argument in defence of microtransactions and GAAS models? 

I don't know what indication here was me being mean to the game devs. I only believe that it's the job of a game to teach the player its mechanics, not the community. That's not me being mean.

That's an okay opinion to have but not everyone is going to feel that way about a game people do enjoy figuring things out themselves and often get really upset when a game holds your hand too much and treats you like you can't figure things out on your own at least with planar damage the game gives you the resources to figure it out on your own that doesn't mean that you will but the tools are there.

[Gameplayer143]

36 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

That's an okay opinion to have but not everyone is going to feel that way about a game people do enjoy figuring things out themselves and often get really upset when a game holds your hand too much and treats you like you can't figure things out on your own at least with planar damage the game gives you the resources to figure it out on your own that doesn't mean that you will but the tools are there.

I'd argue if the game has the scrapbook explicitly tell you that planar defence only blocks planar damage, nobody would complain. Also lets be real here, most players when using the crockpot just use the wiki instead of the recepie pages or using trial and error to find out new recepies. I really doubt your average player is going to waste food to try and test out how to get perogies or honey ham. And again the inconsitency kind of bothers me. The game clearly tells you how to craft things with the crafting menu, meanwhile crockpot recepies only have the recepie pages.

[Mysterious box]

38 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

Also lets be real here, most players when using the crockpot just use the wiki instead of the recepie pages or using trial and error to find out new recepies. I really doubt your average player is going to waste food to try and test out how to get perogies or honey ham. And again the inconsitency kind of bothers me. The game clearly tells you how to craft things with the crafting menu, meanwhile crockpot recepies only have the recepie pages.

I mean there are recipe cards the player can find which I'd argue would have worked fairly well if they were more common.